Taking dogs abroad after Brexit

[Petra]

I've just had an email from Eurotunnel about taking Dogs abroad after Brexit.

 

DEFRA have today announced their recommendation that pet owners planning to travel immediately after 29th March 2019 contact their vet at least four months in advance of travel to check what they need to do.

 

For example, if you are travelling on 30th March 2019 the recommendation is that you visit your vet as soon as possible, and before the end of November 2018 at the latest.

 

DEFRA have advised that you will still be able to travel with your pet to Europe after Britain leaves the EU, however you may need to take some additional steps to allow your pet/s to travel in a ?no deal? scenario.

Our vet doesn't do pet passports so has anybody any ideas what the extra measures could be?

[StuartO]

We went to our Vet's today for routine vaccinations for one of our dogs and I asked about travelling to Europe next Spring.  Her advice was to start preparing in January at the latest, to allow time for the cycle of revaccination followed by the blood test (for seroconversion) to be repeated if necessary, in case the necessary antibody levels aren't achieved first time around.

Bearing in mind that the UK and Ireland are the only parts of Europe which are actually free from rabies and the changes will be needed to cater for ramping up the requirements as we enter mainland Europe (rather than to get us back into UK) these extra checks will only be necessary if the EU decides to call for them as a purely vengeful act.  There can be no disease control justification for them at all.

The blood test for seroconversion checks the antibody level, which peaks about a month after having the rabies vaccine and it is by no means certain that it will reach the required level first time around.  The antibody level falls away after this point so that even though the pet's immune system retains a memory of having been immunised (and the capacity to boost the antibody levels quickly if an infection presents or a booster jab is given) hence the requirement to re-immunise before testing for sero-conversion.

The cost per pet of even a single extra rabies immunisation and blood test is going to be of the order of £100 and if (as in our case) your pet has a passport which is already running out of space, you might face the cost of a new pet passport as well as re-immunisation and sero-conversion testing, maybe twice.  The costs could escalate to a silly amount.

[peterjl]

Hi Stuart

 

These sound like the rules back in the early 2000’s when we first took our dog abroad. The vaccination had to be confirmed as effective a few months later.

 

If we now have to do it every time it’s going to be expensive and a real pain.

 

Peter

[phalange]

It doesn't say that Peter. This is off the .gov website

 

 

 

Repeat trips to the EU

Pets that have previously had a blood test and have an up-to-date rabies vaccination do not need to repeat the blood test. Your pet will need a health certificate for each trip to the EU.

 

To get a new health certificate you must take your pet to an OV no more than 10 days before you travel. You must take proof of:

 

your pet’s vaccination history

a successful rabies antibody blood test result

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pet-travel-to-europe-after-brexit#repeat-trips-to-the-eu

[flyboyprowler]

Something I can't get and answer to at the moment is, we are currently UK residents (maybe going for residency in Spain) with a dog with a Spanish up to date passport. Brits resident abroad can enter and leave at will after Brexit, but what, in our case happens, when a UK resident enters with a Spanish dog, and then wants to leave again?

[Petra]

When we lived in Greece our British dog had a Greek passport as well as an English one. although if we leave without a deal then it seems according to Defra that the UK passport will no longer be valid. Not sure what will happen coming back into UK. Lots to sort out very little time.

[Guest pelmetman]

Petra - 2018-11-10 4:01 PM

 

When we lived in Greece our British dog had a Greek passport as well as an English one. although if we leave without a deal then it seems according to Defra that the UK passport will no longer be valid. Not sure what will happen coming back into UK. Lots to sort out very little time.

 

Dual or EU passports will be the answer to any EU belligerence with regard to pets ;-) ........

 

Fortunately our mutt came with a Spanish passport B-) ........

 

So it'll be indicative of "who" is the most vindictive if we leave with NO DEAL :D ........

 

 

 

 

[Will86]

And that means your Mutt will be able to travel to Spain dear David and you will not !!

[david lloyd]

There doesn't seem to be any advice on the Defra site about all those who are already in Europe with their pets and will be returning after March 2019? If we are able to get away this year it may be January so, according to the advice, don't need to get any further advice/paperwork from vets since we are not intending to start our journey after March 2019 but, again, may be returning in April.

 

As with most things Brexit relates it's all a bit woolly.

 

David

[pottypam]

Has anyone who has travelled in Europe in the last few years ever been asked for their dog’s passport anywhere except at the vets before returning and at Pet Control at the tunnel/ferry? We haven’t. If this no-deal scenario happens, how long will it take for Pet Control facilities to be set up in Europe?

 

The blood test only needs to be done after the first vaccination, as long as vaccinations are kept up to date. There is a possible complication here, as vaccinations in Europe are yearly whereas here it is every three years. This is something that has worried our vet and he asks us every time we see him if we ever have a problem and is quite surprised when we tell him no one in Europe ever asks for the passport.

[phalange]

david lloyd - 2018-11-11 8:04 AM

 

There doesn't seem to be any advice on the Defra site about all those who are already in Europe with their pets and will be returning after March 2019? If we are able to get away this year it may be January so, according to the advice, don't need to get any further advice/paperwork from vets since we are not intending to start our journey after March 2019 but, again, may be returning in April.

 

As with most things Brexit relates it's all a bit woolly.

 

David

 

David i e mailed defra with that very question and i was fobbed off with the reply 'speak to your vet'. How the vet is going to know if defra don't is beyond me.

[phalange]

pottypam - 2018-11-11 8:34 AM

 

Has anyone who has travelled in Europe in the last few years ever been asked for their dog’s passport anywhere except at the vets before returning and at Pet Control at the tunnel/ferry? We haven’t. If this no-deal scenario happens, how long will it take for Pet Control facilities to be set up in Europe?

 

The blood test only needs to be done after the first vaccination, as long as vaccinations are kept up to date. There is a possible complication here, as vaccinations in Europe are yearly whereas here it is every three years. This is something that has worried our vet and he asks us every time we see him if we ever have a problem and is quite surprised when we tell him no one in Europe ever asks for the passport.

 

What i'm struggling to understand is why we need all this to ENTER the continent? I have NEVER had the dogs checked on the way out, all i get is a sticker to put on the screen showing there are dogs onboard. All the checks are done on the return. Wasn't it the UK government that implemented the pet passport scheme? The UK is rabies free and always has been afaik.

[StuartO]

phalange - 2018-11-11 10:22 AM  What i'm struggling to understand is why we need all this to ENTER the continent? I have NEVER had the dogs checked on the way out, all i get is a sticker to put on the screen showing there are dogs onboard. All the checks are done on the return. Wasn't it the UK government that implemented the pet passport scheme? The UK is rabies free and always has been afaik.

There is no disease control reason to add to the checks already in place for entry to mainland Europe from UK; the extra precautions which are currently being advised by our Goverment are purely a contingency in case EU countries decide to make difficulties.  EU Rules involve deciding which of three risk levels are to be applied to animals coming in from a non-EU country.  The risk is that the EU will decide to regard the UK as a Category Three country (i.e. a higher risk country) which requires validation of rabies vaccination by blood test afterwards, to check the antibody levels, i.e. that the immunisation of the paticular pet has "taken", which has hitherto been unnecessary because we are an EU country.

Testing for antibodies needs to be done when their level is at its peak, about 28 days after immnisation because after that the antibody level decays.  That doesn't mean that immunity has been lost, just that the evidence of it has become hidden.  The pet therefore needs a booster jab 28 days before testing for antibodies.  In some cases this booster may not provoke the raised antibody level which is required as evidence, so the process of booster and subsequent test has to be repeated.

It is also being suggested that the Pet Passports we already have (which are EU pet passorts) will become invalid, so we need to start again with a new one.  Our vet has suggested starting this process in January next if you want to take your pet to Europe in April.

As I said there is no disease-control reason for any of this; it is purely a question of how awkward the EU wants to be after we leave.

[lancepar]

pottypam - 2018-11-11 8:34 AM

 

Has anyone who has travelled in Europe in the last few years ever been asked for their dog’s passport anywhere except at the vets before returning and at Pet Control at the tunnel/ferry?

 

.

 

This year we were asked to produce our dogs passport at a vets in France when she developed an abscess and needed some meds. I believe this to be the norm.

 

B-)

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2018-11-11 11:01 AM

phalange - 2018-11-11 10:22 AM  What i'm struggling to understand is why we need all this to ENTER the continent? I have NEVER had the dogs checked on the way out, all i get is a sticker to put on the screen showing there are dogs onboard. All the checks are done on the return. Wasn't it the UK government that implemented the pet passport scheme? The UK is rabies free and always has been afaik.

There is no disease control reason to add to the checks already in place for entry to mainland Europe from UK; the extra precautions which are currently being advised by our Goverment are purely a contingency in case EU countries decide to make difficulties.  EU Rules involve deciding which of three risk levels are to be applied to animals coming in from a non-EU country.  The risk is that the EU will decide to regard the UK as a Category Three country (i.e. a higher risk country) which requires validation of rabies vaccination by blood test afterwards, to check the antibody levels, i.e. that the immunisation of the paticular pet has "taken", which has hitherto been unnecessary because we are an EU country.

Testing for antibodies needs to be done when their level is at its peak, about 28 days after immnisation because after that the antibody level decays.  That doesn't mean that immunity has been lost, just that the evidence of it has become hidden.  The pet therefore needs a booster jab 28 days before testing for antibodies.  In some cases this booster may not provoke the raised antibody level which is required as evidence, so the process of booster and subsequent test has to be repeated.

It is also being suggested that the Pet Passports we already have (which are EU pet passorts) will become invalid, so we need to start again with a new one.  Our vet has suggested starting this process in January next if you want to take your pet to Europe in April.

As I said there is no disease-control reason for any of this; it is purely a question of how awkward the EU wants to be after we leave.

Very informative post. See also here for latest Government advice: http://tinyurl.com/y8ft23ao

[phalange]

Brian, I posted the very same link earlier in the thread.

 

StuartO, many thanks

[david lloyd]

phalange - 2018-11-11 10:22 AM

 

pottypam - 2018-11-11 8:34 AM

 

Has anyone who has travelled in Europe in the last few years ever been asked for their dog’s passport anywhere except at the vets before returning and at Pet Control at the tunnel/ferry? We haven’t. If this no-deal scenario happens, how long will it take for Pet Control facilities to be set up in Europe?

 

The blood test only needs to be done after the first vaccination, as long as vaccinations are kept up to date. There is a possible complication here, as vaccinations in Europe are yearly whereas here it is every three years. This is something that has worried our vet and he asks us every time we see him if we ever have a problem and is quite surprised when we tell him no one in Europe ever asks for the passport.

 

What i'm struggling to understand is why we need all this to ENTER the continent? I have NEVER had the dogs checked on the way out, all i get is a sticker to put on the screen showing there are dogs onboard. All the checks are done on the return. Wasn't it the UK government that implemented the pet passport scheme? The UK is rabies free and always has been afaik.

 

We were one of the first people in the queue when Pet Passport was introduced. At that time, as you say, it was a precaution against re-entry with an infected pet and the blood test was carried out to ensure that the rabies vaccine had been effective, obviously after many tests it became apparent that the vaccine was effective and the requirement for blood testing after the first vaccine was dropped.

 

I as I understood it at the time there was no requirement by the 'EU' for pets to be vaccinated or carry a passport so you could go abroad having had no prior treatments. However, you could not return an animal into the UK without the six months quarantine.

 

Can't honestly see any reason now why the 'EU' should be anymore concerned than it was back the.

 

David

[Petra]

Of course you can always go to Europe via Southern Ireland if there isn't going to be any border and then you could go and come back as you want. Bit expensive but probably cheaper than vets bills!

[phalange]

according to the DEFRA link posted, if you're coming directly back to the UK from Finland, Ireland, Malta or Norway you don't need to administer the tapeworm treatment.

 

[Clive_Adams]

Think this issue will not be cleared till we see the results of Brexit implemented,

 

We also travel with a dog and for the life of me can not understand the DEFRA stand of "check with your Vet", I thought it was the other way round, and the Vets take their guidance from DEFRA, which was certainly the case when our dog got its passport.

 

Like most pet owners I guess it will be an anxious wait.

[teccer1234]

Like most pet owners I guess it will be an anxious wait.

 

well think about us, we're already out here with our dog and coming home after the end of March, our Spanish vet has said that we will be able to get a Spanish passport for the dog so she will have duel pasports so should overcome any problems at the UK border, (we hope)

[Brian Kirby]

phalange - 2018-11-11 12:02 PM

 

Brian, I posted the very same link earlier in the thread.

 

StuartO, many thanks

Sorry Sir, won't happen again! :-)

 

I didn't follow your link as I have little interest in the subject, but thought I look to see whether the government was giving guidance. When I found it was, I thought it might be useful to others, so posted the link. So, now folk have two links they can follow. Can't be bad, can it? :-D

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2018-12-02 6:36 PM

 

phalange - 2018-11-11 12:02 PM

 

Brian, I posted the very same link earlier in the thread.

 

StuartO, many thanks

Sorry Sir, won't happen again! :-)

 

I didn't follow your link as I have little interest in the subject, but thought I look to see whether the government was giving guidance. When I found it was, I thought it might be useful to others, so posted the link. So, now folk have two links they can follow. Can't be bad, can it? :-D

 

So your just stirring the pot Brian *-) ..........

 

I intend to be celebrating Brexitmas in Spain B-) .........

 

That said we have a rescue dog with a Spanish passport ;-) ........

 

So when we head home in April, I expect to get on the ferry as per normal after our 5 month stay :D ......

 

What else are they going to do? :-S ......make me stay (lol) (lol) (lol) ...........

 

 

[weldted]

I recived this reply from DEFRA having stated that I was currently in France and would not be returning until April/May 2019

 

 

Thank you for your enquiry.

 

Your pet must have one of the following documents when returning to the UK:

*an existing EU pet passport (both for UK and EU citizens)

*the EU health certificate issued in the UK used to travel to the EU

*a UK pet health certificate (issued outside the UK for travel into the UK only)

 

Check the routes before you travel. On existing approved routes your documents and microchip will be checked. If you're not travelling on an approved route talk to your vet about what preparations you need to make before travel.

 

There will be no change to the current requirements for pets entering the UK from the EU after 29 March.

 

Kind regards,

 

Kayleigh Witherington

 

Admin Officer

 

Imports Team

 

Animal and Plant Health Agency (APHA)

[phalange]

all Kayleigh has done is copy and pasted off the defra website :-S