Jump to content

Tap working the wrong way round


Bazzeruk

Recommended Posts

I haven't tried it yet, but I was told by the seller that the tap in the bathroom on my Rhthym Compact turns on when tap is down and switches off when tap is up.

 

Before I start to dismantle - has anyone come across this?

 

Has he simply put the tap control in upside down or is it an electrical mis-connection?

 

Have had a look on you tube and can't find the answer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 55
  • Created
  • Last Reply

If the tap in your Rhythm’s shower-room looks like the one in the attached photo below, then lifting upwards the lever on the tap’s top should turn the tap on and water should then start flowing, with the flow-rate depending on how far upwards the lever has been moved. Moving the lever fully downwards should turn the tap off. And (with the lever having been moved upwards) moving the lever to left or right should regulate the water’s temperature.

 

Whatever the type of water-pump that your Rhythm has, I can’t see how - when the tap’s lever is fully down - water will be able to flow through the tap. It’s POSSIBLE that electrical miswiring MIGHT cause the water-pump to turn on when the tap’s lever is down, but, even if that happened, water should not come out of the tap.

 

Sounds very odd advice to me - I suggest you try the tap and see what happens...

bathroom.jpg.c9117fa7ce688ce8dd6aa5fe793301df.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the tap is indeed functioning in reverse it would imply a manufacturing fault or possibly a broken internal component. These taps are supplied ready assembled so other than swopping over the hot and cold supplies there’s not much that can go wrong during the installation. They’re not expensive to purchase so rather than attempting to disassemble/reassemble and risk the seals failing resulting in a leak, I’d suggest that you just swop it out.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Swift's handbook suggests that a pressure-sensitive water pump is used. Iif that's so, electrical wiring should not be involved regarding the tap. Photos of the Rhythm Compact suggest that the shower and kitchen-sink use similar lever-operated mixer-type water outlets and (presumably) these will have the normal lift-lever-for-on operation.

 

If the wash-basin tap functions as the seller has said but still turns on and off OK, it might as well be left alone and it's abnormal operation lived with. Replacing a tap can be a swine, so if the tap ain't actually broke, just weird, why bother to fiddle about with it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the lever has been fitted to the shower control 180° round from its usual position then it would indeed operate 'backwards'.ie down for on and up for off (where down is towards base of tap unit).

 

I could see this being done if there where the chance of inadvertently knocking the lever and turning the shower on with the lever in the usual position.

 

Keith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Will86 - 2019-12-03 2:22 PM

 

Down for off in a vibrating mobile swaying vehicle is much the better way, if it was t''other way it might move to open and empty its supply into the sink or on the floor.

 

But the shower control in a Rhythm is mounted vertically so if this is what the OP is referring to then may not be an issue.

 

Keith.

1214186131_Rhythmshower.thumb.jpg.01ffa6e6a9a727d40937e79d92c73503.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our 2008 Duetto on a MK7 Transit had two lever / rotating taps. One tap in the kitchen operated with 'up' for on and 'down' for off. The tap for the shower was the inverse, ie 'down' for on and 'up' for off.

 

The taps were not assembled incorrectly, that was the way they were supplied.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bazzeruk - 2019-12-03 2:47 PM

 

I've just checked and it's definitely wrong.

 

Is it much of a job to change the tap?

I assume that it’s the sink tap that may require replacing?

 

It’s not difficult to do if you can gain easy access to the underside of the sink. However, as Derek pointed out, it can be a difficult job if maintenance access was not part of the van builders design criteria.

 

In my case, my bathroom sink incorporates a storage cupboard underneath. I should have been able to undo four screws and lift the whole sink unit off it’s supporting wooden wall mount and gain access to the underside of the tap and piping/electrics.

 

However the installers has decided to stick the sink to its wall mount. This meant that to gain access I had to disassemble the under cupboard from the sink, which in a confined space and with permanent fixings was not an easy task. Once done the tap fitting was straightforward as was reassembly. It all took a good half day though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

spospe - 2019-12-03 3:28 PM

 

Our 2008 Duetto on a MK7 Transit had two lever / rotating taps. One tap in the kitchen operated with 'up' for on and 'down' for off. The tap for the shower was the inverse, ie 'down' for on and 'up' for off.

 

The taps were not assembled incorrectly, that was the way they were supplied.

Could it be that a shower tap has been fitted to the op's sink instead of a sink tap??

 

Although having said that, my sink and shower taps operate in identical directions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BruceM - 2019-12-03 4:07 PM

 

Bazzeruk - 2019-12-03 10:53 AM

 

Before I start to dismantle

 

Also, if you do decide to disassemble the tap, which in theory could be done in situ, this video may assist

 

Having watched the video I think I will leave well alone!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you did need access to the tap there is a panel between the small shelves behind the loo that can be removed but it only gives very limited space which may give enough room to get to the tap retainer nut. The sink can also be removed but this does not give any access to the tap retainer fixings. (I agree leave well alone could be your best bet)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Keithl - 2019-12-03 4:54 PM

 

Barry,

 

Please can you confirm that your tap is the same as in the photo above?

 

If yes then I think the fix may be actually quite simple. I will have to look at my spare tap later to confirm.

 

Keith.

 

Yes Keith - it is exactly like the one in the picture. Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The photo attached below is taken from an advert for a 2013 Autocruise Rhythm Compact, and it might be helpful if Barry confirmed which ’tap’ (A or B) he has a problem with.

 

To turn ON the wash-basin mixer-tap (A) the outer end of the operating-lever on the tap’s top should normally be raised upwards. To turn OFF the wash-basin mixer-tap (A) the outer end of the lever on the tap’s top should normally be depressed fully downwards.

 

To turn ON the mixer outlet (B) for the shower the outer end of the operating-lever on the outlet’s top should normally be pulled outwards. To turn OFF the mixer outlet (B) for the shower the outer end of the lever on the outlet’s top should normally be pushed inwards.

 

The norm for this type of tap is always for its operating lever to be at an angle of roughly 90 degrees to the tap’s body (as is the case in the photo) when the tap is fully CLOSED, or for the lever to be pointing at a significant angle upwards (relative to the tap’s body) when the tap is fully OPEN.

 

This (unnecessarily long) link describes disassembly of a domestic mixer tap, but caravan/ motorhome taps of the same type should be similar internally.

 

 

In principle, if the operating-lever of the wash-basin tap were installed 180 degrees from the correct position, pushing the lever downwards would turn the tap on and lifting it up would turn it off. It should not be practicable to fit the lever in the wrong position on a metal domestic tap, but it MIGHT be possible with the inexpensive plastic taps commonly used in caravans and motorhomes. (If a lever were fitted ‘back to front’, I would have thought that the end-result would look peculiar.)

1139777734_2013RhythmCompactbathroom.png.f9f0aee90feb46496352a7f7697d06b3.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek Uzzell - 2019-12-03 6:24 PM

 

It should not be practicable to fit the lever in the wrong position on a metal domestic tap, but it MIGHT be possible with the inexpensive plastic taps commonly used in caravans and motorhomes. (If a lever were fitted ‘back to front’, I would have thought that the end-result would look peculiar.)

 

The taps fitted in our Duetto were of metal construction. Really well made and solid, not at all 'plasticy'

 

Having the taps work as they did was a bit of a curse at first (often getting a mini-shower) until I fitted a trigger type of shower head and that completely overcame the problem. Eventually we came to like the arrangement, as it seemed in practice less likely to turn the shower on by pulling the lever out, than by pushing it in. Our present Warwick Duo has both taps (shower and kitchen) of the same action (pull out = on).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek Uzzell - 2019-12-03 6:24 PM

 

The photo attached below is taken from an advert for a 2013 Autocruise Rhythm Compact, and it might be helpful if Barry confirmed which ’tap’ (A or B) he has a problem with.

 

To turn ON the wash-basin mixer-tap (A) the outer end of the operating-lever on the tap’s top should normally be raised upwards. To turn OFF the wash-basin mixer-tap (A) the outer end of the lever on the tap’s top should normally be depressed fully downwards.

 

To turn ON the mixer outlet (B) for the shower the outer end of the operating-lever on the outlet’s top should normally be pulled outwards. To turn OFF the mixer outlet (B) for the shower the outer end of the lever on the outlet’s top should normally be pushed inwards.

 

The norm for this type of tap is always for its operating lever to be at an angle of roughly 90 degrees to the tap’s body (as is the case in the photo) when the tap is fully CLOSED, or for the lever to be pointing at a significant angle upwards (relative to the tap’s body) when the tap is fully OPEN.

 

This (unnecessarily long) link describes disassembly of a domestic mixer tap, but caravan/ motorhome taps of the same type should be similar internally.

 

 

In principle, if the operating-lever of the wash-basin tap were installed 180 degrees from the correct position, pushing the lever downwards would turn the tap on and lifting it up would turn it off. It should not be practicable to fit the lever in the wrong position on a metal domestic tap, but it MIGHT be possible with the inexpensive plastic taps commonly used in caravans and motorhomes. (If a lever were fitted ‘back to front’, I would have thought that the end-result would look peculiar.)

 

It is the sink tap I have the problem with, not the shower

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK I have just been and dismantled my spare tap and the answer is YES you can assemble with the control lever 180° out of position.

 

The spout rotates around the body of the tap and does not have any stop or detent, basically it will go round and round the body as many times as you care to turn it.

 

And the control lever will go on 180° out and (once the grub screw is tightened) will then operate backwards. ie Down for on and up for off. The off position is actually still at the same 'height' as when assembled correctly so will not be immediately obvious.

 

To fix this issue you will need to remove the control lever by loosening the grub screw (2.5 mm Allen key) behind the red/blue button then lift off the lever.

 

Next loosen the 11 mm securing nut below the basin. This is the only tricky part!

 

Now rotate the main tap body (and plumbing) through 180° when viewed from above. It may be worth marking the body so you know where you started from. The spout will rotate on the body and stay over the basin.

 

Then retighten the nut underneath, refit the lever in the now correct position and then test for operation (and check for leaks!).

 

Hope this all makes sense.

 

Keith.

 

Edit: Nut size corrected to 11 mm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The cartridge used with this type of mixer tap has protrusions on its base that marry up with holes in the tap’s interior - so it ought not to be possible to fit the cartridge wrongly and still have an operational tap.

 

The cartridge has a ’stub’ on its top to which the operating lever attaches. In some instances the stub does not have a genuine square cross-section and the lever will only fit to the stub in the correct position. This is the case with the stub in the upper photo attached below where one side of the stub has chamfered edges. That stub also has an obvious indent to locate the end of the grub-screw that holds the lever firmly on to the stub. With this ‘idiot proof’ design of cartridge, even if it were not understood how the tap functioned, it ought to be straigthforward to assemble the tap correctly.

 

Although it should not be practicable to insert a cartridge other than in its correct position, cartridge design is not universal. The lower attached photo is of the cartridge used in “Carafax” taps fitted to some Bailey motorhomes. The cross-section of the plastic stub suggests that the tap’s lever has the potential to be attached in two positions - one correct and one not. If the lever were attached incorrectly, even though it could still be in the usual near horizontal position when the tap was off, it would look abnormal when the lever was depressed to turn the tap on - but, of course, to be aware of this one would need to know what was normal and what was not.

 

In Buddy’s posting of 3 December 2019 4:49 PM he warned that access to the fixings beneath the washbasin’s tap cannot be gained by merely removing the pull-down basin. Although removing the operating-lever from the tap should be a simple matter, it will still be necessary to follow the remaining procedure Keith has described. But if it’s not possible to see how the tap has been installed, it won’t be possible to know what pitfalls there might be.

 

My Rapido motorhome’s kitchen sink and washbasin have this type of mixer-tap. Access to the securing nut and plumbing beneath the washbasin’s tap is easy, but the opposite is true for the kitchen-sink tap. Sod’s Law demands that, if there were a problem with one of these taps, it would relate to the kitchen-sink tap and, sure enough, that tap’s securing nut beneath the work-top had not been adequately tightened when the motorhome was built and, when the tap’s spout was moved, the tap’s body also moved. There was a small ‘hatch’ screwed on to the wall of a kitchen cabinet and I was able to tighten the tap’s securing nut through that hatch using a torch, a mirror, a mixture of tools and much cursing. It was not a fun experience and I’m doubtful that rotating the tap’s body and its plumbing through 180° would have been possible without major surgery on the kitchen cabinet to greatly improve access.

 

Unless Barry can gain good access to his washbasin tap’s underside in order to reach the securing nut and to decide whether the tap’s body can be rotated 180° without disconnecting the water hoses that attach to it, trying to rectify this issue will be best avoided.

104886421_domesticcartridge.png.4f5e01ae3d2908e020e7856a80b47fd8.png

443130715_Carafaxtapcartridge.png.659c5fe983760dea491f5f88488758e4.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Derek,

 

Just to confirm that I am NOT talking about inserting the cartridge incorrectly in the tap body but mounting the entire tap body 180° out onto the basin/sink.

 

I have just double checked and the spindle and lever on my tap do not have any form of register, the lever can be fitted just as easily in any of the four positions! Obviously two positions will be obviously wrong as the lever then tips sideways but the 180° out position operates fine, just in reverse!

 

Barry,

 

Can you access the 11 mm nut below the tap to allow the body to rotate and if so is there slack in the plumbing to allow it to turn?

 

Keith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I understood your explanation - it seems that Barry's tap has been mounted back-to-front behind the washbasin and the tap's operating-lever has been switched round. Visually the installation would appear to be OK, but the lever's On/Off movement would actually be reversed

 

If access is adequate and the present plumbing permits it, in principle correction should be straightforward enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone

 

I cannot see how to access the nut at the moment and obviously don’t want to damage the trim

 

The previous owner is away on holiday until after the weekend and now I know what the problem is I will be in touch asking him for details of exactly what he did to create the problem.

 

The fact it is the wrong way round would not be an issue except for, as one poster said, I am concerned the tap may switch on accidentally whilst travelling due to vibration.

 

Thanks again for all the help, I will let you know how I get on

 

Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...