Tax changes

[charleydog]

While i was engaged in verbal jousting on the possible new van ,the salesman told me that from January 2020 motorhomes will attract a hike in tax similar to high value cars, And can mean a price hike in the region of 10%. Is he giving me the buy now or else,or is this true?I am sure it would have been discussed on this forum by now if it was going to happen.

[Robinhood]

...it has been (towards the end of this thread here)

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Road-Tax/51028/#M614217

 

...and at quite some length in other places.

 

No-one has, as yet (and as far as I have seen) produced a definitive view of what is going to happen in the short term, or when.

 

There is quite a bit of supporting documentation to believe that something is going to change in the foreseeable future, though.

[david lloyd]

Hi charleydog, I think you will find it has been discussed on here back in July - sorry not sure how to post a link but it’s on page 3 (I think) or do a search for the post Proposed new VED for Motorhomes’ - and don’t faint when you see the tax rates!

 

David

[Deneb]

A Parliamentary Briefing Paper CBP-8639 was published on 8th August, which confirms that with the arrival of Euro 6D/Temp and associated legislation requiring the new Worldwide harmonised Light vehicle Test (WLTP) emissions figures to be stated on all vehicles manufactured to that standard, the final stage CoC for new motorhomes not exceeding 3500kgs MGW will be required to state the WLTP CO2 figure for the vehicle.

 

As has been previously discussed on this forum at some length, if on application for initial registration, a motorhome has a CO2 figure stated on its final stage CoC, DVLA are obliged to assign it to the appropriate current (2017 onwards) emissions related tax class, which in the case of most motorhomes will be Diesel Car. This attracts a higher rate of tax for the first five years from the date of registration, which rises again if the list price of the vehicle exceeds £40,000.

 

Most motorhomes to date have "avoided" being placed in this category because, having no CO2 figure stated on their final stage CoC, they cannot be taxed under the newer tax bands are so are placed in the PLG category if not exceeding 3500kg MGW.

 

Some motorhome dealers are claiming that new Euro 6D/Temp motorhomes will be subject to the emissions related tax categories from first registration as of 1st September, when the WLTP rules take effect.

 

However, due to the nature of the WLTP test, which has been designed to simulate "real world" driving conditions and avoid any manipulation by "cheat devices" a la VW and similar, CO2 figures are expected to increase by up to 25% across the board.

 

HM Treasury have produced a briefing document on WLTP, in which they state that although the new figures will appear on the approval for all Euro 6D/Temp vehicles from 1st September, they should not be used for vehicle tax purposes until after 6th April 2020 at the earliest. I assume this is due to the expected increase in the figures under WLTP which if used under the current tax tables would hike some vehicles into higher tax classes than they had been previously. April 2020 would allow the use of the WLTP figures to be aligned with new tax tables which normally take affect around that date each year.

 

So it appears to me, although I don't know for sure and this is just my supposition, that if the new WLTP figures are not being used until next April, there should be a period of time where if registered before that date, new Euro 6D/Temp motorhomes may still fall into the PLG tax category because, as is currently the case, no usable CO2 figure will be stated on their CoC.

 

None of this is retrospective, so any vehicle currently allocated to the PLG tax category will continue to be taxed under that class at whatever rate the government determines each year, unless the law is changed at some future date.

 

There is no "new" tax for motorhomes. It is just that going forward they will, if having a MGW of 3500kgs or less, be treated in the same way as all other road going vehicles have been since 2001, whereas up to this point an anomaly has allowed many of them to be taxed in a category which is actually meant to apply only to vehicles registered prior to 2001. Those that are currently taxed under that system will continue to be taxed as PLG, it is only new Euro 6D/Temp and subsequent vehicles that will fall into the current taxation system from whatever date DVLA/HM Treasury determine that it is to be implemented.

 

As WLTP does not currently apply to heavier vehicles, motorhomes with as MGW in excess of 3500kgs should still be allocated to the PHGV tax class - for now!

[Billggski]

The test.

https://wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/

Seems to require testing of a range of examples of each vehicle, but with low volume production of motorhomes this looks problematic.

[vindiboy]

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/268246?fbclid=IwAR19WbeePBb-WJx7dGo23j3ul4Su1uQDNlExvrrX0X9uT_37e2SB18T9ng0 On another forun a petion thread is running and you can sign if you wish I have signed it but hold out little hope on it doing any good?

[Deneb]

Billggski - 2019-08-12 8:30 PM

 

The test.

https://wltpfacts.eu/what-is-wltp-how-will-it-work/

Seems to require testing of a range of examples of each vehicle, but with low volume production of motorhomes this looks problematic.

 

The primary legislation allows motorhomes to assume the base vehicle emissions values provided that the frontal area does not exceed the original base vehicle's frontal area by more than a specific amount. I can't recall the figure offhand but it is fairly restrictive. I would expect converters to concentrate more on PVCs or low profile narrow coachbuilts unless they have sufficient scale of production to go through their own testing and believe sufficient customer base will support it.

 

[Conrad J]

My plan with my new motor caravan with its expected higher duty rating for first 5 years, is to declare SORN for 3-4 winter months, to lessen the cost.

[Deneb]

vindiboy - 2019-08-12 8:32 PM

 

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/268246?fbclid=IwAR19WbeePBb-WJx7dGo23j3ul4Su1uQDNlExvrrX0X9uT_37e2SB18T9ng0 On another forun a petion thread is running and you can sign if you wish I have signed it but hold out little hope on it doing any good?

 

In my view the only thing if is likely to do is draw attention to the anomaly that has existed for the last 18 years whereby motorhomes have been allocated to tax classes only intended for vehicles registered prior to 2001, with the obvious risk that politicians may then decide all the vehicles currently assigned to PLG could offer more scope for tax gathering.

 

There has not been any change to UK legislation. All that is happening is that the introduction of WLTP is causing new motorhomes up to 3500kgs MGW to be treated the same as all other motor cars under existing rules. I doubt there will be much sympathy from anyone who is not a motorhome owner.

 

We may fare better keeping our heads down, but as often seems to be the case petitions are created without those involved having a full understanding of what they are campaigning against.

[Derek Uzzell]

When the ‘CO2 emissions’ VED classes were initially introduced VW “California” campers were assigned to those taxation classes as the “California” had a ‘single stage’ build and, consequently, there was a CO2 datum on its final-stage Certificate of Conformity (CoC) .

 

Complaints were made to the DVLA who responded by agreeing that, even if a motorhome’s final-stage CoC carried a CO2 datum, this should be ignored and the vehicle’s VED class should be based on the vehicle’s gross weight. The DVLA allowed VW Californias that had been assigned to an emissions tax class to be moved to the PLG class.

 

However, a few years back, the DVLA changed its stance, saying that - if a motorhome’s final-stage CoC carried a CO2 datum (and the vehicle had a maximum gross weight not exceeding 3500kg) - it should be registered in the appropriate ‘emiissions’ VED class.

 

So (as Deneb says) there has been no change to the DVLA rules regarding which VED class a new motorhome is assigned to when first UK-registered - it’s just that they may now be treated like Bentleys and Ferraris.

[Billggski]

......or you register the vehicle at 3501kg?

[Derek Uzzell]

Historically, where UK VED is concerned, there has been an ongoing financial advantage if a new motorhome’s Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) exceeds 3500kg as it will then be registered in Tax Class 10 (Private HGV) where the annual fee has remained static at £165 for quite a few years. However, there are potential downsides in owning a motorhome with a MAM exceeding 3500kg, in particular that it cannot be driven legally on a standard ‘car’ driving-licence entitlement.

 

It’s been commonplace for recent coachbuilt motorhomes built on a Fiat Ducato ‘light’ chassis to be marketed with a MAM of 3500kg or 3650kg with (usually) no extra charge for ordering the vehicle at the higher weight. So, if a buyer has the necessary driving-licence entitlement, opting for a higher-MAM version should sidestep the issue being discussed here.

 

But it’s not practicable to pick any old MAM (like 3501kg) and UK-register a new motorhome using that weight-figure, as the vehicle’s MAM (plus any CO2 emissions figure) is stated on the motorhome’s final-stage Certificate of Conformity (CoC). The DVLA sees that CoC and the data on that document will decide which UK VED class the motorhome is assigned to.

 

At least one new motorhome with a MAM exceeding 3500kg was (wrongly) assigned to an ‘emissions’ VED class and charged highly as a result, but I’m not aware of any new up-to-3500kg-MAM motorhome being (correctly) assigned to an ‘emissions’ VED class and then being weight-uprated to an over-3500kg MAM, so I don’t know how the DVLA would respond if that happened.

 

When a motorhome's MAM has been uprated or downrated in the past the relevant VED fee has been applied to the vehicle fron that point onwards. In principle, then, if a new up-to-3500kg-MAM motorhome were (legitimately) assigned to an ‘emissions’ VED class because its final-stage CoC carried a CO2 figure, and its MAM was uprated to (say) 3501kg immediately after registration, this should move it into Tax Class 10 (Private HGV) and some of the original VED charges might be recouped (maybe!)

 

UK vehicle tax rates effective from 1 April 2019 are shown here

 

https://tinyurl.com/y4aunfof

 

If the assumption is correct that the final-stage Certificate of Conformity of most motorhomes will, in future, carry a high CO2 value (over 255 g/km) the current tax rates would result in a £2135 charge at first UK registration, then (if the new motorhome’s list price exceeded £40,000) an annual charge of £465 for the next 5 years subsequently reducing to an annual charge of £145.

 

As will be seen from the below link the UK is far from alone in taxing motor vehicles using CO2 emissions data.

 

https://www.acea.be/uploads/publications/CO2-based_motor_vehicle_taxes_EU-2019.pdf

[Billggski]

Which makes doing the C1 test to drive over 3500kg cost effective in future?

[Derek Uzzell]

But what if the new £50K motorhome you’ve fallen in love with is only available on a 3500kg MAM base?

[Keithl]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-14 9:58 AM

 

But what if the new £50K motorhome you’ve fallen in love with is only available on a 3500kg MAM base?

 

You talk to the likes of SV Tech and get it replated to 3,501 kg. They must be able to help?

[colin]

Keithl - 2019-08-14 10:12 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-14 9:58 AM

 

But what if the new £50K motorhome you’ve fallen in love with is only available on a 3500kg MAM base?

 

You talk to the likes of SV Tech and get it replated to 3,501 kg. They must be able to help?

 

Makes little differance in UK, but in other countries this can have other implications.

[Keithl]

colin - 2019-08-14 10:22 AM

 

Keithl - 2019-08-14 10:12 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-14 9:58 AM

 

But what if the new £50K motorhome you’ve fallen in love with is only available on a 3500kg MAM base?

 

You talk to the likes of SV Tech and get it replated to 3,501 kg. They must be able to help?

 

Makes little differance in UK, but in other countries this can have other implications.

 

Good point!

 

But is it worth the increased tax for UK revenue as opposed to costs abroad?

[Derek Uzzell]

All hypothetical and, in any case, the current petition mentioned earlier will undoubtedly convince the DVLA’s masters to exempt all new motor caravans from VED regulations involving CO2 emissions.

 

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if it were decided that zero VED should apply to new motorhomes registered from (say) 1 April 2020, though this would, of course, produce howls of protest from owners of motorhome registered before that date.

[aandy]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-14 11:15 AM

 

All hypothetical and, in any case, the current petition mentioned earlier will undoubtedly convince the DVLA’s masters to exempt all new motor caravans from VED regulations involving CO2 emissions.

 

.

 

 

Indeed, with the petition containing such powerful and well-reasoned arguments, it is difficult to see how they could resist.

[Billggski]

We could have a referendum about it?

(That always settles things)

[Deneb]

aandy - 2019-08-14 12:59 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-14 11:15 AM

 

All hypothetical and, in any case, the current petition mentioned earlier will undoubtedly convince the DVLA’s masters to exempt all new motor caravans from VED regulations involving CO2 emissions.

 

.

 

 

Indeed, with the petition containing such powerful and well-reasoned arguments, it is difficult to see how they could resist.

 

It's always encouraging to see that the creators of these petitions have researched the subject thoroughly before submission :-(

[colin]

Keithl - 2019-08-14 10:42 AM

 

colin - 2019-08-14 10:22 AM

 

Keithl - 2019-08-14 10:12 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-14 9:58 AM

 

But what if the new £50K motorhome you’ve fallen in love with is only available on a 3500kg MAM base?

 

You talk to the likes of SV Tech and get it replated to 3,501 kg. They must be able to help?

 

Makes little differance in UK, but in other countries this can have other implications.

 

Good point!

 

But is it worth the increased tax for UK revenue as opposed to costs abroad?

 

As you know the UK speed limit for motorhomes is set by the unladen weight, but across most (all?) of Europe it's the GVW, so you will trigger lower speed limits.