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The shape of things to come?
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user747
Posted: 26 July 2020 12:36 PM
Subject: The shape of things to come?
 


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Bad news for motorhoming in the Lake District National Park and not too good for the Tourism Industry.

https://youtu.be/oRqdckSTAYU
userBarryd999
Posted: 26 July 2020 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Oooooh dont get me started on here an all!!

Absolutely ridiculous.
userBruceM
Posted: 26 July 2020 1:25 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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I’m not convinced that the Tourism Industry in the Lakes has much reliance on overnight wild campers. Most visitors are likely to be staying in B&B’s, hotels, youth hostels and campsites. It is a shame though that the minority of people who wild camp responsibly are being penalised because of the apparent actions of others. The only solution I can imagine is an overnight permit scheme to allow suitably equipped (and instructed?) wild campers to stay overnight. It would have to be self funding though so probably £25 a night would be likely to help cover the costs. The other possibility would be designated Aires. No doubt they would still incur a charge. Having wild camped myself in a tent, I suspect designated Aires would’t provide the sense of freedom that makes genuine wild camping attractive to many people.

Edited by BruceM 2020-07-26 1:26 PM
userJohn52
Posted: 26 July 2020 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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So their justification for moving on motorhomes is they might leave a tent behind
userTintent115
Posted: 26 July 2020 1:54 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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Bit of a (long) non story really......

Camping in breach of a bye law apparently, politely moved on by plod.

He could always of found a CL, CS or campsite and put some money into the local economy...
userBarryd999
Posted: 26 July 2020 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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I know that area like the back of my hand and have parked overnight (many moons ago) in that exact spot. There are a fair few good wilding spots in that area which is at the quieter north western end of the lake district. We even spent New Years eve once just round the corner from there at the bottom of the Honister Pass where it got down to -17c. Loved it. It was a magical experience. Not many sites or CLs open that time of year anyway.

Thats the whole point though. Its about freedom and having an experience. Its not about saving money. On our many trips to the lakes (its not that far from here) we have never held back from spending money in the local economy.

I just find it preposterous that Plod is out terrorising families in motorhomes in the middle of the night. Have they not got anything better to do?

Concentrate on the idiots that are actually ruining the countryside and lock them up. Leave the rest of us alone.
usermalc d
Posted: 26 July 2020 3:13 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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Tintent115 - 2020-07-26 1:54 PM

Bit of a (long) non story really......

Camping in breach of a bye law apparently, politely moved on by plod.

He could always of found a CL, CS or campsite and put some money into the local economy...


Quite agree.

The police explained very politely that there has been a " massive influx " of visitors - many making a mess - and for that reason the bye-law is being enforced.

You can't really expect the police to check whether or not each visitor is making a mess.

Sounds like the majority are making things bad for the minority.

I was amused by the fact that the bloke making the video apologised that it was so short !

He should be in politics.

user747
Posted: 26 July 2020 3:56 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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It is quite apparent that the bulk of abusers are tenters. Not regular tenters but 'the Buckfast Brigade' as they are known in Scotland. They and their pals buy a cheap tent and a mountain of booze and head out into a scenic spot, then trash it. They cut down trees for their fire, defecate wherever thay can and leave an unholy mess when they go home.

This makes me think that there are 2 types of moron. The ones who create the mess and the ones who introduce blanket bans for anyone who travels to their area on wheels. The second group seem incapable of rationalising an answer to this. Ask any normal person who lives in the Lakes National Park (and probably any other NP) and they will be unhappy with the management of it, unless they are making a lot of money from tourism. Second home owners are making it impossible to live there due to high property prices and lack of employment (outside of tourism). I worked for quite a long time in Derbyshire and it was the same situation there. At least there was the chance of decent work within travelling distance outside of the NP.
userBarryd999
Posted: 26 July 2020 4:43 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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747 - 2020-07-26 3:56 PM

It is quite apparent that the bulk of abusers are tenters. Not regular tenters but 'the Buckfast Brigade' as they are known in Scotland. They and their pals buy a cheap tent and a mountain of booze and head out into a scenic spot, then trash it. They cut down trees for their fire, defecate wherever thay can and leave an unholy mess when they go home.

This makes me think that there are 2 types of moron. The ones who create the mess and the ones who introduce blanket bans for anyone who travels to their area on wheels. The second group seem incapable of rationalising an answer to this. Ask any normal person who lives in the Lakes National Park (and probably any other NP) and they will be unhappy with the management of it, unless they are making a lot of money from tourism. Second home owners are making it impossible to live there due to high property prices and lack of employment (outside of tourism). I worked for quite a long time in Derbyshire and it was the same situation there. At least there was the chance of decent work within travelling distance outside of the NP.


Well said 747! Its been the same story here regarding the morons creating a mess and trashing the countryside. It must have been perfectly obvious to the copper that the guy in the little van on his own and the family in the PVC were not trashing the place and he should have just left them well alone. I simply would not have answered the door. What is he going to do? Those kids will remember that for the rest of their lives. Not pleasant and totally uncessary.

If we just sit back and allow this kind of thing to happen then for those of us that respect the countryside and enjoy the freedom of wild camping we will just end up with nowhere to go. Well we will as Ill just do what I mainly do now, go and spend my money on Mainland Europe, the Scottish Isles or the one CL Field I now go to on the Yorkshire coast. I dont bother with anywhere else in England now apart from the Lakes and the the few spots I know there but thats off the list now.

Have your say. The Lake District National Park posted about it on FB

https://www.facebook.com/lakedistrictnationalpark/photos/a.10150255548075221/10164224400840221/?type=3&theater
userTintent115
Posted: 26 July 2020 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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Barryd999 - 2020-07-26 4:43 PM

747 - 2020-07-26 3:56 PM

It is quite apparent that the bulk of abusers are tenters. Not regular tenters but 'the Buckfast Brigade' as they are known in Scotland. They and their pals buy a cheap tent and a mountain of booze and head out into a scenic spot, then trash it. They cut down trees for their fire, defecate wherever thay can and leave an unholy mess when they go home.

This makes me think that there are 2 types of moron. The ones who create the mess and the ones who introduce blanket bans for anyone who travels to their area on wheels. The second group seem incapable of rationalising an answer to this. Ask any normal person who lives in the Lakes National Park (and probably any other NP) and they will be unhappy with the management of it, unless they are making a lot of money from tourism. Second home owners are making it impossible to live there due to high property prices and lack of employment (outside of tourism). I worked for quite a long time in Derbyshire and it was the same situation there. At least there was the chance of decent work within travelling distance outside of the NP.


Well said 747! Its been the same story here regarding the morons creating a mess and trashing the countryside. It must have been perfectly obvious to the copper that the guy in the little van on his own and the family in the PVC were not trashing the place and he should have just left them well alone. I simply would not have answered the door. What is he going to do? Those kids will remember that for the rest of their lives. Not pleasant and totally uncessary.

If we just sit back and allow this kind of thing to happen then for those of us that respect the countryside and enjoy the freedom of wild camping we will just end up with nowhere to go. Well we will as Ill just do what I mainly do now, go and spend my money on Mainland Europe, the Scottish Isles or the one CL Field I now go to on the Yorkshire coast. I dont bother with anywhere else in England now apart from the Lakes and the the few spots I know there but thats off the list now.

Have your say. The Lake District National Park posted about it on FB

https://www.facebook.com/lakedistrictnationalpark/photos/a.10150255548075221/10164224400840221/?type=3&theater


You are exactly right, that is exactly what will happen, and is happening.

Back in the 70's and 80's I used to waterski and jetski on Windermere. The Lake District Special Planning Board systematically closed off everywhere that you could get a craft down to the waters edge and forced you to go and use the "public" slipway. It cost £26 to launch then park your car and trailer. Eventually they introduced a speed limit to stop it completely. Everywhere else around the country slowly clamped down with more restrictions and costs till in the end we sold both craft. This is exactly what is happening now with campervans and motorhomes. There is an explosion in ownership and "van life". You can "convert" an old transit for next to nothing. The young lad across the road from me passed his driving test and bought a car. Two years after that he sold the car, bought a Transit and "converted" it to a camper van. It's a fairly basic thing, done on his drive. Now anyone who fancies "wild" camping can do it easily. It's alright ranting "Why don't they go after the messy ones" but nobody can tell who they are from a row of vans camping in a beauty spot. The Authorities will simply ban it and enforce it. Its great bravado coming on here saying you wouldn't answer the door, but when the summons drops on your door mat and you have to take a day off work to go to court back in the lake district any sensible person might wish they had played it different.....

We are resigned to paying for a proper site. As the provision of new sites doesn't seem to be keeping up with the explosion in van ownership we expect to get fed up with crowded sites and lengthy booking timescales and change our hobby again. The money I had put by to change our van will probably be spent on foreign holidays if Covid ever buggers off....!

Edited by Tintent115 2020-07-26 5:39 PM
userBarryd999
Posted: 26 July 2020 5:54 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Tintent115 - 2020-07-26 5:38 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-07-26 4:43 PM

747 - 2020-07-26 3:56 PM

It is quite apparent that the bulk of abusers are tenters. Not regular tenters but 'the Buckfast Brigade' as they are known in Scotland. They and their pals buy a cheap tent and a mountain of booze and head out into a scenic spot, then trash it. They cut down trees for their fire, defecate wherever thay can and leave an unholy mess when they go home.

This makes me think that there are 2 types of moron. The ones who create the mess and the ones who introduce blanket bans for anyone who travels to their area on wheels. The second group seem incapable of rationalising an answer to this. Ask any normal person who lives in the Lakes National Park (and probably any other NP) and they will be unhappy with the management of it, unless they are making a lot of money from tourism. Second home owners are making it impossible to live there due to high property prices and lack of employment (outside of tourism). I worked for quite a long time in Derbyshire and it was the same situation there. At least there was the chance of decent work within travelling distance outside of the NP.


Well said 747! Its been the same story here regarding the morons creating a mess and trashing the countryside. It must have been perfectly obvious to the copper that the guy in the little van on his own and the family in the PVC were not trashing the place and he should have just left them well alone. I simply would not have answered the door. What is he going to do? Those kids will remember that for the rest of their lives. Not pleasant and totally uncessary.

If we just sit back and allow this kind of thing to happen then for those of us that respect the countryside and enjoy the freedom of wild camping we will just end up with nowhere to go. Well we will as Ill just do what I mainly do now, go and spend my money on Mainland Europe, the Scottish Isles or the one CL Field I now go to on the Yorkshire coast. I dont bother with anywhere else in England now apart from the Lakes and the the few spots I know there but thats off the list now.

Have your say. The Lake District National Park posted about it on FB

https://www.facebook.com/lakedistrictnationalpark/photos/a.10150255548075221/10164224400840221/?type=3&theater


You are exactly right, that is exactly what will happen, and is happening.

Back in the 70's and 80's I used to waterski and jetski on Windermere. The Lake District Special Planning Board systematically closed off everywhere that you could get a craft down to the waters edge and forced you to go and use the "public" slipway. It cost £26 to launch then park your car and trailer. Eventually they introduced a speed limit to stop it completely. Everywhere else around the country slowly clamped down with more restrictions and costs till in the end we sold both craft. This is exactly what is happening now with campervans and motorhomes. There is an explosion in ownership and "van life". You can "convert" an old transit for next to nothing. The young lad across the road from me passed his driving test and bought a car. Two years after that he sold the car, bought a Transit and "converted" it to a camper van. It's a fairly basic thing, done on his drive. Now anyone who fancies "wild" camping can do it easily. It's alright ranting "Why don't they go after the messy ones" but nobody can tell who they are from a row of vans camping in a beauty spot. The Authorities will simply ban it and enforce it. Its great bravado coming on here saying you wouldn't answer the door, but when the summons drops on your door mat and you have to take a day off work to go to court back in the lake district any sensible person might wish they had played it different.....

We are resigned to paying for a proper site. As the provision of new sites doesn't seem to be keeping up with the explosion in van ownership we expect to get fed up with crowded sites and lengthy booking timescales and change our hobby again. The money I had put by to change our van will probably be spent on foreign holidays if Covid ever buggers off....!


I was serious about not answering the door. could be a mad axe murderer for all I know. I wonder what would happen if you just did nothing and did not communicate. I dont think they could just send you a £500 fine. You would only get that kind of fine if you were charged with an offence and had to go to court. Worst they could do would slap a parking ticket on your windscreen but as far as I am aware there are no signs up there or double yellow lines.

They are just targeting law abiding motorhomers because they will be easy targets. Far easier than trudging across fields to find a gang of unruly hooligans off their tits on god knows what who should be the real targets.
userTintent115
Posted: 26 July 2020 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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They don't have to send you a fine, just a summons. Depending on who is actually enforcing the "bye law" affects the burden of proof. The "evidence" is that the van is registered elsewhere and the blinds were down etc. There may be observations from an official that it arrived at some point in the evening and left the next morning, there may be local CCTV ( I don't know the spot) an official may have heard noise in the van. The "evidence" will depend upon the particular circumstances and be different every time, but there may well be sufficient evidence for a summons to be issued, and they don't always come from the police. Various authorities have powers to prosecute.

I don't like this any more than you do. But it is a brave or foolish person that fails to cooperate with a polite request to move. You may get away with it or you may end up being summonsed. You then either attend court or ignore the summons which meant a warrant was issued when I was in school ( ). Overall I personally would either wild camp well away from hotspots likely to attract attention/enforcement or just pay for a campsite, possibly a CL/CS if that level of amenity provision suits you...

But if you choose to do differently, good luck, it keeps the criminal justice system in business at least if not the local camp site owners.....
userJohn52
Posted: 26 July 2020 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Tintent115 - 2020-07-26 1:54 PM



He could always of found a CL, CS or campsite and put some money into the local economy...

I've been told (verbally by a stranger) my vehicle would not be allowed on a Caravan Club site as its registered as a Goods Vehicle and their planning permission does not cover lorry parking. I can't confirm this as I've never tried.
I would be reluctant to go on a campsite due to the risk of catching the plague. Another one gone down with it now.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-53544543
userJohn52
Posted: 26 July 2020 6:28 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-07-26 5:54 PM

They are just targeting law abiding motorhomers because they will be easy targets. Far easier than trudging across fields to find a gang of unruly hooligans off their tits on god knows what who should be the real targets.


I quite agree.
But I wouldn't recommend not answering.
Next thing could be a brick through the window if its thieves checking if someone is in first.
And would you get back to a comfortable night's sleep with all that going through your mind.
I would appear at the window and play it by ear.
Probably move down the road and park there when I became too tired to safely drive any further.
A responsible driver doesn't drive when tired.
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 July 2020 8:08 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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John52 - 2020-07-26 6:28 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-07-26 5:54 PM

They are just targeting law abiding motorhomers because they will be easy targets. Far easier than trudging across fields to find a gang of unruly hooligans off their tits on god knows what who should be the real targets.


I quite agree.
But I wouldn't recommend not answering.
Next thing could be a brick through the window if its thieves checking if someone is in first.
And would you get back to a comfortable night's sleep with all that going through your mind.
I would appear at the window and play it by ear.
Probably move down the road and park there when I became too tired to safely drive any further.
A responsible driver doesn't drive when tired.


My..... you make your kinda Mohoing sound fun ..........Not .......

userJands
Posted: 26 July 2020 8:37 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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As one of those dreaded second home owners in the lake district I dont want to see all the parking areas taken over by campers doing a free holiday.
The economy of the lakes is mainly through tourism, there are lots of campsites but in many prime areas a lack of parking. If these get taken over by campers not putting much into the local economy by camping for free, eating inside their vans the local buisness will fail.
I know Buttermere well, often walk round crummock water eating in the Fish Inn, parking in a NT carpark west of the water. I know that Buttermere struggles with parking so once the village is taken over by campers stopping for a week the area would economically die.
Maybe the UK should follow the aire idea, small sites at low/free prices but seeing how a small number of the population treat country side car parks know that this idea would result in big rubbish spots, not sure how other countries keep theirs so good.

Just looked £12 a night in sykes campsite for small campervans, stopping in their carpark.
Not too much money and far easier than driving to the M6.

Edited by Jands 2020-07-26 8:47 PM
userJohn52
Posted: 26 July 2020 9:24 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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pelmetman - 2020-07-26 8:08 PM

John52 - 2020-07-26 6:28 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-07-26 5:54 PM

They are just targeting law abiding motorhomers because they will be easy targets. Far easier than trudging across fields to find a gang of unruly hooligans off their tits on god knows what who should be the real targets.


I quite agree.
But I wouldn't recommend not answering.
Next thing could be a brick through the window if its thieves checking if someone is in first.
And would you get back to a comfortable night's sleep with all that going through your mind.
I would appear at the window and play it by ear.
Probably move down the road and park there when I became too tired to safely drive any further.
A responsible driver doesn't drive when tired.


My..... you make your kinda Mohoing sound fun ..........Not .......



Could be worse.
I could be stuck on a campsite with a pitch next to you
userJohn52
Posted: 26 July 2020 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Jands - 2020-07-26 8:37 PM

As one of those dreaded second home owners in the lake district I dont want to see all the parking areas taken over by campers doing a free holiday.
The economy of the lakes is mainly through tourism, there are lots of campsites but in many prime areas a lack of parking. If these get taken over by campers not putting much into the local economy by camping for free, eating inside their vans the local buisness will fail.
I know Buttermere well, often walk round crummock water eating in the Fish Inn, parking in a NT carpark west of the water. I know that Buttermere struggles with parking so once the village is taken over by campers stopping for a week the area would economically die.
Maybe the UK should follow the aire idea, small sites at low/free prices but seeing how a small number of the population treat country side car parks know that this idea would result in big rubbish spots, not sure how other countries keep theirs so good.

Just looked £12 a night in sykes campsite for small campervans, stopping in their carpark.
Not too much money and far easier than driving to the M6.


Plenty of room for more affordable homes and car parks.
The National Park Authority and local Nimbys have created the shortage they blame us for.
and should realise the national park belongs to EVERYBODY, we don't owe them a living, or need their permission, to use OUR national park.
I wouldn't want to sleep in their grotty beds, and risk catching the virus in their pubs and cafes, even if they were free.
Why shouldn't we be allowed to bring our own beds and park on OUR public roads we have paid road tax for?

Edited by John52 2020-07-26 9:40 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 July 2020 9:36 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 32010
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John52 - 2020-07-26 9:24 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-26 8:08 PM

John52 - 2020-07-26 6:28 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-07-26 5:54 PM

They are just targeting law abiding motorhomers because they will be easy targets. Far easier than trudging across fields to find a gang of unruly hooligans off their tits on god knows what who should be the real targets.


I quite agree.
But I wouldn't recommend not answering.
Next thing could be a brick through the window if its thieves checking if someone is in first.
And would you get back to a comfortable night's sleep with all that going through your mind.
I would appear at the window and play it by ear.
Probably move down the road and park there when I became too tired to safely drive any further.
A responsible driver doesn't drive when tired.


My..... you make your kinda Mohoing sound fun ..........Not .......



Could be worse.
I could be stuck on a campsite with a pitch next to you


Fortunately most people avoid me like the Chinky Flu .........




(P1020034.JPG)



Attachments
----------------
Attachments P1020034.JPG (36KB - 118 downloads)
userJohn52
Posted: 26 July 2020 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


Lord of the posts

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pelmetman - 2020-07-26 9:36 PM

John52 - 2020-07-26 9:24 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-26 8:08 PM

John52 - 2020-07-26 6:28 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-07-26 5:54 PM

They are just targeting law abiding motorhomers because they will be easy targets. Far easier than trudging across fields to find a gang of unruly hooligans off their tits on god knows what who should be the real targets.


I quite agree.
But I wouldn't recommend not answering.
Next thing could be a brick through the window if its thieves checking if someone is in first.
And would you get back to a comfortable night's sleep with all that going through your mind.
I would appear at the window and play it by ear.
Probably move down the road and park there when I became too tired to safely drive any further.
A responsible driver doesn't drive when tired.


My..... you make your kinda Mohoing sound fun ..........Not .......



Could be worse.
I could be stuck on a campsite with a pitch next to you


Fortunately most people avoid me like the Chinky Flu .........


Each to their own.
I like to move around, go where I want when I want, and see new places.
If I was going to stay in one place for weeks or months like you do I'd rather stay at home.
usermalc d
Posted: 26 July 2020 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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Barryd999 - 2020-07-26 5:54 PM


I was serious about not answering the door. could be a mad axe murderer for all I know

. I wonder what would happen if you just did nothing and did not communicate.
.



1 ) You would lay awake all night wondering what was going to happen.

2) The police would clamp your wheels and come back and see you in the morning.




Edited by malc d 2020-07-26 9:44 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 July 2020 9:49 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 32010
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Location: Brexit On Sea. 1990 Ford Travelhome.


John52 - 2020-07-26 9:42 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-26 9:36 PM

John52 - 2020-07-26 9:24 PM

pelmetman - 2020-07-26 8:08 PM

John52 - 2020-07-26 6:28 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-07-26 5:54 PM

They are just targeting law abiding motorhomers because they will be easy targets. Far easier than trudging across fields to find a gang of unruly hooligans off their tits on god knows what who should be the real targets.


I quite agree.
But I wouldn't recommend not answering.
Next thing could be a brick through the window if its thieves checking if someone is in first.
And would you get back to a comfortable night's sleep with all that going through your mind.
I would appear at the window and play it by ear.
Probably move down the road and park there when I became too tired to safely drive any further.
A responsible driver doesn't drive when tired.


My..... you make your kinda Mohoing sound fun ..........Not .......



Could be worse.
I could be stuck on a campsite with a pitch next to you


Fortunately most people avoid me like the Chinky Flu .........


Each to their own.
I like to move around, go where I want when I want, and see new places.
If I was going to stay in one place for weeks or months like you do I'd rather stay at home.


I guess after nearly 30 years mohoing I don't need to see whats over the next hill .........

Plus its not us much fun as it was before Mohoing became fashionable .........

userJands
Posted: 27 July 2020 12:22 AM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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Posts: 12



Plenty of room for more affordable homes and car parks.
The National Park Authority and local Nimbys have created the shortage they blame us for.
and should realise the national park belongs to EVERYBODY, we don't owe them a living, or need their permission, to use OUR national park.
I wouldn't want to sleep in their grotty beds, and risk catching the virus in their pubs and cafes, even if they were free.
Why shouldn't we be allowed to bring our own beds and park on OUR public roads we have paid road tax for?

Edited by John52 2020-07-26 9:40 PM



The National parks belong to the Land owners, mainly the National Trust and Forestry Commission. We dont own them.
Vehicle excise money is just a tax, goes into the big pot, doesnt pay for the roads directly.
Life isnt the same as the "old days" too many people now.
We cant be selfish and thoughless like we were.


Edited by Jands 2020-07-27 12:23 AM
userJohn52
Posted: 27 July 2020 12:39 AM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Jands - 2020-07-27 12:22 AM
The National parks belong to the Land owners, mainly the National Trust and Forestry Commission. We dont own them.



And who owns the National Trust
The Forestry Commission
And the public roads they were parked on
userDeneb
Posted: 27 July 2020 10:22 AM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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John52 - 2020-07-27 12:39 AM

And who owns the National Trust
The Forestry Commission
And the public roads they were parked on


And who gives anyone the "right" to contravene UK legislation which makes it an offence to drive more than 15 yards from the highway onto any land, public or private, without explicit consent?

Just because a blind eye has been turned in the past, doesn't mean it always will remain so in the light of the unfortunate more recent behaviour of more and more selfish and inconsiderate individuals.

Parking on any public road is also by consent. When I was being trained in road traffic legislation, it was made clear that the only right of useage on a public highway is that of being able to "pass and repass". In other words, roads are intended to allow users to travel between destinations, and any parking on any part of the carriageway is technically an obstruction in law as it prevents all other road users from being able to pass or repass over that particular part of the carriageway occupied by the stationary vehicle.

Of course, with the sheer volume of traffic using our roads, some common sense has to prevail, and the increase in legislation creating specific parking restrictions might suggest that there is implied consent to park anywhere that they are not in force.

But don't make the mistake of thinking that you have a "right" to park on a public road, or anywhere else unless you happen to own the land in question, for that matter.
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Posted: 27 July 2020 10:58 AM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Jands - 2020-07-26 8:37 PM

As one of those dreaded second home owners in the lake district I dont want to see all the parking areas taken over by campers doing a free holiday.
The economy of the lakes is mainly through tourism, there are lots of campsites but in many prime areas a lack of parking. If these get taken over by campers not putting much into the local economy by camping for free, eating inside their vans the local buisness will fail.
I know Buttermere well, often walk round crummock water eating in the Fish Inn, parking in a NT carpark west of the water. I know that Buttermere struggles with parking so once the village is taken over by campers stopping for a week the area would economically die.
Maybe the UK should follow the aire idea, small sites at low/free prices but seeing how a small number of the population treat country side car parks know that this idea would result in big rubbish spots, not sure how other countries keep theirs so good.

Just looked £12 a night in sykes campsite for small campervans, stopping in their carpark.
Not too much money and far easier than driving to the M6.


These campers were at the top of the Newlands pass though. Middle of nowhere doing nobody any harm. Not clogging up car parks in Buttermere. I agree with you regarding the actual car parks in the villages and towns. They are often not suitable for motorhomes but even some of them you could open up say between 7pm and 8am for a small fee when many will be empty. I dare say some of the pubs and eateries in villages could benefit from that. Then there is the off season. Winter. allowing parking in suitable car parks could increase trade.

This is the exact location on streetview of the spot the coppers decided to traumatise the two respectable visitors.

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5473999,-3.2494349,3a,75y,305.4h,78.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3mmA0oUEvwSWT5k9yeIDfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Safe, off the road but not miles off the road, doing no harm whatsoever.

There are many others as well in that area, out of the villages and plenty of space.

As regards a free holiday? Its not about having a free holiday is it? I am sure respectable motorhomers like the two in question here will spend money on activities, food, drinks probably more than a day tripper.

As for me, I just wont bother going if this is the attitude. Or ill do what I do now, pop over for the day, do a bit of kayaking and come home without spending anything.

Its a bit personal for me as it was always like second home to me. I had boats for years on Windermere and Ullswater and must have put tens of thousands of pounds into the Lake district economy over the years.

Edited by Barryd999 2020-07-27 10:58 AM
userpepe63
Posted: 27 July 2020 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 
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malc d - 2020-07-26 3:13 PM

Tintent115 - 2020-07-26 1:54 PM

Bit of a (long) non story really......

Camping in breach of a bye law apparently, politely moved on by plod.

....


Quite agree.

The police explained very politely that there has been a " massive influx " of visitors - many making a mess - and for that reason the bye-law is being enforced.

You can't really expect the police to check whether or not each visitor is making a mess.

Sounds like the majority are making things bad for the minority.



Agree..
As lovely as it sounds to be able to just park/pitch up as/when/where you want, the fact is in certain areas restrictions/bylaws exist...and whilst folk may have "got away with it" in the past, due to increased numbers nowadays and social media/forums broadcasting once isolated locations (and all coupled with considerably lower standands of behaviour!) , restrictions are more likely to get enforced (and new ones introduced?)

So maybe don't blame the rule but blame those whose conduct have brought them about?

We also have no idea what "harm" a vehicle's overnighting-inhabitants have done, until they have driven off...

Some will leave behind rubbish- and sometimes emptied toilet waste. We've all seen the detritus left by some campervanners/motorhomers, so as a group we are not complete innocents.
(even dribbling/emptying grey waste, doesn't look too good, especially in Joe Public's eyes..)

Slight aside- I don't pretend to know the area in question - But why do some *cough* "wildcampers" choose to nest in a clump of vans? One van soon becomes two, two becomes four etc.. and sometimes they'll be there for days on end...?
That doesn't help things does it.




Edited by pepe63 2020-07-27 11:55 AM
userJohn52
Posted: 27 July 2020 1:01 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Deneb - 2020-07-27 10:22 AM

John52 - 2020-07-27 12:39 AM

And who owns the National Trust
The Forestry Commission
And the public roads they were parked on


And who gives anyone the "right" to contravene UK legislation which makes it an offence to drive more than 15 yards from the highway onto any land, public or private, without explicit consent?

Just because a blind eye has been turned in the past, doesn't mean it always will remain so in the light of the unfortunate more recent behaviour of more and more selfish and inconsiderate individuals.

Parking on any public road is also by consent. When I was being trained in road traffic legislation, it was made clear that the only right of useage on a public highway is that of being able to "pass and repass". In other words, roads are intended to allow users to travel between destinations, and any parking on any part of the carriageway is technically an obstruction in law as it prevents all other road users from being able to pass or repass over that particular part of the carriageway occupied by the stationary vehicle.

Of course, with the sheer volume of traffic using our roads, some common sense has to prevail, and the increase in legislation creating specific parking restrictions might suggest that there is implied consent to park anywhere that they are not in force.

But don't make the mistake of thinking that you have a "right" to park on a public road, or anywhere else unless you happen to own the land in question, for that matter.


But they weren't 15 yards off the highway. I can't really put it better than Barry did;

They are just targeting law abiding motorhomers because they will be easy targets. Far easier than trudging across fields to find a gang of unruly hooligans off their tits on god knows what who should be the real targets.

To me this is just another example of lazy policing.

like detecting and proving dangerous driving is difficult, wheras proving exceeding the speed limit is easy
detecting and proving child abuse is difficult, wheras detecting and proving downloading pictures of it is easy
detecting and proving people leaving litter behind is difficult, wheras driving around moving motorhomes on is easy
But its not even a deterrent to the Buckfast tenters leaving all the mess

The worst people are getting away with it, because its easier to prosecute others.

PS: or is this about deterring motorhomes so people have to spend more money when they visit?
Are they not so bothered about the Buckfast brigade because they don't want their custom?

Edited by John52 2020-07-27 1:15 PM
userJohn52
Posted: 27 July 2020 1:28 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Barryd999 - 2020-07-27 10:58 AM



This is the exact location on streetview of the spot the coppers decided to traumatise the two respectable visitors.

https://www.google.com/maps/@54.5473999,-3.2494349,3a,75y,305.4h,78.12t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s3mmA0oUEvwSWT5k9yeIDfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Safe, off the road but not miles off the road, doing no harm whatsoever.
.


also shows how much unused land there is that could be made use of.
Can't help comparing it with the Italian Lake district that has been developed with sufficient housing and parking to relieve the housing and parking crisis.
Nimbys claim it would spoil the view.
But the way the Italians have done it enhances the view IMO
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Posted: 27 July 2020 3:19 PM
Subject: RE: The shape of things to come?
 


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Jands - 2020-07-26 8:37 PM

As one of those dreaded second home owners in the lake district I dont want to see all the parking areas taken over by campers doing a free holiday.
The economy of the lakes is mainly through tourism, there are lots of campsites but in many prime areas a lack of parking. If these get taken over by campers not putting much into the local economy by camping for free, eating inside their vans the local buisness will fail.
I know Buttermere well, often walk round crummock water eating in the Fish Inn, parking in a NT carpark west of the water. I know that Buttermere struggles with parking so once the village is taken over by campers stopping for a week the area would economically die.
Maybe the UK should follow the aire idea, small sites at low/free prices but seeing how a small number of the population treat country side car parks know that this idea would result in big rubbish spots, not sure how other countries keep theirs so good.

Just looked £12 a night in sykes campsite for small campervans, stopping in their carpark.
Not too much money and far easier than driving to the M6.


I would think that the number of cars who want a cheap day out far exceeds the number of Campers. The problem is that big white vehicles stand out more (and take up a bit more space). Until there is a better system in places (like Aires) the Businesses will not get a penny from us because we will avoid the area. We have an 8.2 metre van and we hate crowds, so the Lakes is not what we want. It would be worth a punt in Winter but I doubt that there will be many Sites open then. I will do some research as we want to use the van more, to make up for this year.

The Lakes is not unique, there seems to be no 'joined up' system to accommodate all types of vehicle anywhere. There are over 250,000 registered Motorhomes and Caravans in the UK and hardly any dedicated parking areas where you can park up during the day.
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