Tour de France

[Guest jenny vowden]

We are hoping to follow some of the route of the Tour de France this July. Have any readers had experience of this? any advice welcome!

[Guest PeteC]

Not been there but from info received If you want to see a mountain stage you need to be in place about 3 days before For route & loads'a info log on to letour.fr The Tour de France web site & if you have a laptop you will be able to pick up a running report as it happens In English Have a good trip Perhaps one day we will make it

[Guest Tony S]

I live in France and like a growing number of people here I am anti Tour de France and anti Paris - Dakar (even more so). I demonstrated against the tour passing through the town where I live (in S.W. France) a couple of years ago, due to the large sum of money demanded of the town to be included on the route. The 1998 doping scandal revealed to the general public what had been an open secret for many years ie, that virtually all the participants are pumped up high with drugs. It's still the case. Lance Armstrong himself is now officially suspected of cheating to achieve his numerous triumphs. The tour generates a trail of pollution in its wake as well(plastic bottles etc)that the organisers don't clean up. There are still more drugs in circulation in the wings of the Tour de France than backstage at an average rock concert. An interesting pilgramge for tour fans is to Mont Ventoux, in Provence, to visit the kitsch, roadside shrine to Tom Simpson, the British competitor, who's heart burst, in 1967 as he neared the summit, due to massive amphetamine use. Enjoy the tour!

[Guest mark B]

Ignore Tony the tour is the greatest free show on earth. As a sport it is much clearner than many other sports but does have it's issues. The atmosphere is fantastic I reccommend tthe prologue then skip a few days and head for the hills. The start this year will rpvide a location for a great holiday. I ave been fortunate enough to visit a lot of top quality sporting events and know a lot of french people who unlke tony see the massive benfits the tour brings. Cant make it this year but hope you have great time. If you want and informed view about pro cycling and pro sport in general from somebody that works inside it rather than somebody who might moan cos his roads get closed for a bit let me now Have a good trip MB

[Guest Tony S]

Dear Jenny, I was just making sure you were aware of the controversy surrounding the Tour, in France, before you attended one, which of course is your right.If it's much cleaner than many other sports, as Mark claims,I'd be surprised if the competitors in those other sports could still be standing up, let alone competing! Yes, it certainly does 'have its issues' as he puts it. There have been numerous books published since the great doping scandal of '98 that go into great detail on the immoderate use of drugs that enable the cyclists to constantly break new records. They are still doping themselves. Professional cyclists, just like rock stars, often die young, from substance abuse. A top young Italian cyclist(Panini)died just a few months ago from a drug overdose. I think if you want an 'informed view about pro cycling and pro sport in general' you should ignore Mark - he's hopelessly biased because, as he himself admits, he 'works inside it'.

[Guest PeteC]

Hi Jenny Ignore the remarks of that chap who lives in France I have known several Tour riders and the two reporters for Channel 4; coming from West Yorks and being an ex racing cyclist I worked with two prewar tour riders I know that there is a problem with 'performance drugs' Brian Robinson and Barry Hoban, boh say that drugs were a problem; but not as widesperead as some people make out. Drugs are a problem in Athletics. And onlt this week the chemists have discovered yet a new form of performance drug amongst the USA athletics team. As far as litter is concerned just look at the litter left by ANY big event - fun marathon, footbal match --- it is always a problem i know also the the organisers take money from the towns to go through them. That is up to the towns to sort out - Look at the money proposed to bring the Olympics to London - but the organisers think of the facilities left behind after also the money taken off tourists AND the sponsors of the event You always get a group who are against big events As far a L Armstrong taking drugs - well he may still be taking cancer type drugs You go over I am sure that it will be a memorable event (others have told me such) We have to be home for annual medical checks, that the specialist says cannot be missed - Otherwise we would be there web site www.letour.fr

[Guest Tony Smith]

Now here's another one saying to ignore me! Sorry to be the one to inform you Pete but there is a book just out in France by the ex-masseuse of L. Armstrong, in which she details all the illegal drugs that he was (and presumably still is) taking. (nothing to do with his cancer drugs) The Tour de France is rotten to the core. This is no longer a sport we are talking about(if it ever was) - it's a shady world of hardened drug dealers, vested interests and large sums of money. Coming hard on the heels of France and Italy, who are finally taking the subject seriously, it is now Spain's turn to try to save lives, by legislating to put an end to widespread substance abuse in sporting circles. They hope to put some order, especially, in professional cyclism,which, of all the sports, has historically been associated with the worst doping infringements. In june 2004, the Spanish police arrested 21 people who were supplying over 10,000 sporting clients with illegal drugs. In defence of the sportsman (who's I.Q. often doesn't exceed the 100 mark, e.g.Virenque) it is significant that the proposed, tougher Spanish legislation, targets the trainers, the managers and the physiotherapists of the cyclists, and other sportsman. They are, of course, the main culprits. They kept it pretty well hidden for decades, but now it's common knowledge, I find it highly ironic that in fact, it wasn't the long haired hippies and other punks that were the biggest drug users - it turned out to be the supposedly squeaky clean imaged sportsmen and women!

[Guest PeteC]

Tony I have said that I have known some of the top riders and athletes of the 50's 60's 70's personally Admitedly there are some bad apples that have to be taken out re the two Greek athletes There are also some 'influential?' people who have an axe to grind and would do their best to pull down someone who had say sacked them or refused to take the suspect medicines that they offered Some people have accused one of our top long distance runners for failing in a major event. People who have NO experience of long distance events Well from personal experience a long distance 'runner/cyclist,,' can suddenly run out of energy and finish in a heap at the side of the road. This gradually happens, the runner; however is not aware of this until it is too late As cyclists it is known as the 'bonk' and the answer is to push some food into yourself. Te effect can be amazing; and a spectator may think that a magic potion/sponge has been administrated I would advise you not to make comments about any person without proper hard evidence. It doesnot mater if you are in France or any other country. the person mentioned can take action. Notice in this post I have not mentioned any individual person. Further more look at weightlifting/bodybuilding Weight/bulk enhancing 'medicines/food enhancers' or whatever are available in most gyms in every country Feild event - Throwers are not free of these enhancers Some of the people who are suspect for taking drugs are using a method of living at altitude for a long period. Heavy training in these conditions makes the blood structure alter. This was discovered after tests on the Ethiopian athletes and others who have come from altitude These blood changes make you more able to withstand long periods of physical stress it does not help the sudden energy burst type of activity though I have taken part in cycling at a high level (I have work a GB Vest) also as a cross country runner at county level I also have two sisters one being a GB sprinter/hurdler. the other being a Norther Counties Champion thrower she trained alongside Geoff Brakes the shot putter One of the sprinters my sister run against (from a foreign country) was accused of being a man and had to undrgoe several tests to prove that she was a woman. All because she was always winning Similarly with one of our cycling ladies. My wife rode against her and we both knew the daughter that she had given birth to - so she was a woman Lastly I repeat to you dont take anybody's book as being evidence of another person taking drugs it may just be a case of sour grapes In your own words above you stated that the managers/trainers etc have been found guilty of pushing drugs. Could the person you mentioned not be guilty of trying to pull (the unnamed rider) down for refusing to buy/take the offered 'medicine' Keep you moth shut Tony about things which you seem to know a little, but which is not really very much in the big world. The Tour is too big for yoou and your compatriots

[Guest jenny vowden]

Oh Dear seems like I've opened a can of worms! Did not expect such a harsh reaction to such a simple request! Thanks everyone for the advice - good or bad

[Guest mark B]

Jenny I hop eyou do go and see the TDF as it is the greatest annual sporting event in the world even the miserable old ex pat tony cant argue with that. It has a 90%+ approval rating Official audited figure supplied in Paris 2012 bid document). Is cycling a totally clean sport NO. Is any sport totally clean NO. Has cycling done more than any other sport YES. Tony please leave cycling alone you are quoting the hype generated by a eurpoean proess that sells copy on the basis of gossip. The LA book is the subject of a nubmer of legal cases the italian cyclist that dies was not as you suggest named after a toasted sandwich ut was in fact Marco Pantani. he died of recreational cocaine abuse and not a performance enhancing drug. This is no defence but it should contextualise tonys lack of knowledge on this subject. Go see the event, enjoy one of Frances favorite sports alongside the French. Kind Regards MB

[Guest T. Smith]

Actually, Mark I'm not at all miserable, although I do admit to being an ex-pat. I hate fanaticism, in any form, that's all, whether it be in religion, sport or whatever. But thankyou, at least your contribution to the debate was reasonably civil. The reason that doping has become the norm in competitive sports events is that, over the years, people have kept, or been told to keep, their mouths shut.

[Guest Neal Farrow]

I saw the Tour de France once, it went past the end of my road in Kent, a few years ago! It's just a load of geezers in tight-fitting Victorian bathing suits riding bicycles like lunatics! Oh, and the owners of the bikes are chasing them in their cars, along with the police. Wot's it all about then....?

[Guest Mike Chapman]

And there was me thinking that this was a motor home and motor caravan forum. What next Pol Emique trying to convince us that cycling is environmentally unsustainable? Jenny if you want to go to see the Tour in your motorhome then do it and enjoy it.

[Guest chris]

Hi all, It is good to have an open debate about the Tour de France especially from someone living there. I too have doubts about this sport and if I remember from last year, one of the town officials (or someone very important) refused to be in the same car as the organisor of the Tour because of the drugs issue. I saw the tour in 2003 and was amazed at the carnival atmosphere that was there.Everyone was having a great time and food and drink were plentiful. We saw the tour finish but it was just a flash of colour straight past our eyes. There were tannoy systems making announcements but I am not that fluent and struggled to understand. At the finish the commercial "caravan" came along a couple of hours before the end and it was most impressive. Freebies were thrown out into the crowds and we enjoyed trying to catch them the same as the rest.The money spent on the cars and buses of the officials was an eye-opener too and the number of trucks required just to carry the fencing to keep the public back was jaw dropping. One heck of a lot of money is spent I can assure you. People were sitting on chairs which were on top of tables that were on backs of lorries and having a good old laugh as it was their workplace and they had a brilliant view.Even the police were enjoying themselves. The atmosphere was brilliant and we pulled into a campsite in the town at 9am that morning and found a space. (St maixient Ecole I think the town was)It is well worth seeing but always keep an open mind as to how some (not all) of these cyclists achieve what they do.

[Guest Nick Miller]

I enjoyed that. Jenny,if you spend enough time in France during the Spring and Autumn you will quickly get used to whole towns being shut with no way out unless you are local and know the way.Especially at the week end it seems. Whilst the boys on bikes go round and round. I just park up make a cuppa and enjoy the sight. They are only amateurs but what the heck do i know.Honest endevour,colour, and not a lot of commercial involvement.My type of sport.

[Guest Mike]

Hi Jenny please disregard the rights and wrongs of performance enhanceing drugs just go and see one of the best free shows not only the race but the publicity carnival that always precedes the race. As suggested before look up the route on the website and or when in France buy a copy of the sports paper Equipe(spelling not my forte). In this paper it will give you a full route and expected times of arrival as well as who is doing what, where and why. With careful planning you may be able to watch from one point and then move to a point on the route nearer the finish. This is probably not possible on the mountain stages(the very best places to watch as the riders are going fractionally slower).