Transit Auxiliary lights, electrical advice needed please

[dave_ssfr]

Hi all, hoping for some electrical advice please?

 

Probably about a year or so ago, I asked a similar question on the transit owners group about how to go about wiring some lights up. The gist of the replies was that the battery alone should cope, and they couldn’t understand why I was wanting a third battery.

I’m asking here, due to the fact that as camper van and motor home owners, adding in appliances and electrical items, I’m hoping you’ve got much more knowledge in the electrical department, than what the typical works van owner might have.

 

So, it’s a 2009 transit jumbo. 2.4 100ps

I am wanting to add some lights to my bullbar and maybe bonnet.

 

The lights, a 20” Rigid Industries E series light bar (flood/spot), 214w 15amp, I have 2 large light pods as well (D-XL’s, Driving diffused) which are (88w 6.3amp each = 176w 12.6amp),

I would like to add 2 smaller light pods (D2’s Spot) (30w 2.15amp = 60w 4.3amp), maybe at a later date.

Total power = 450w 31.9amp all in.

 

I actually bought the 20” and the DXL’s 2 years ago and just never got around to fitting them, finally I’ve got all the wires and switches that I need, and just trying to figure out where/how to wire them… google searches actually brought me to this forum where I saw a comment that stated the Ford owners manual says not to connect directly to the battery, but instead to connect to one of the 60amp fuses under the seat. Worth noting that I have dual batteries under the seat.

 

 

I would like to know why it is advised not to connect directly to one of the batteries, is it a fuse issue or a relay or what?? I do understand that the batteries are isolated to each other when ignition is off and connected in parallel with engine (ignition) on.

 

 

The way that I was originally looking to do things, involved a 3rd battery in cubby that is above the cab area, to act as a wired in jump pack. Work wise, due to the nature of what I do, I don’t have much work during the winter months, so it can be left for a few days at a time and it can be a bit difficult to start, (yesterday as example, ended up turning radio and interior lights off and it found the juice to start, last used Fri/sat last week) i did replace the lights in the rear for led strips which are a bit heavy on consumption, which is possibly where some starting power is being lost, not sure, not massively important.

 

Anyway, the 3rd battery would come down to an isolator switch positioned between driver seat and the bench seat mounted on the bulk head, it has an off / batt1 / batt2 / both - positions. Purely due to the positions of batteries in relation to the switch, van battery would be connected to batt2, with the 3rd battery above wired to batt1. So driving along, switch in batt 2 position, I have power to my lights with switches on the dash to control them individually (the blanks around the esp button), and they run directly from the battery.

If the engine was off and I so wished, and not to drain the van battery, I could switch to batt1 and power the lights from the 3rd battery.

In Both position, then technically, the 3rd battery and the van battery, are connected in parallel, if I had difficulty starting the engine, then I could use this to essentially jump start the van.

Wires somehow find their way behind the steering wheel (under floor padding maybe? Yet to figure that out), and through the oval grommet. In the engine bay they’ll connect to a fuse box with common positive and negative buses. The individual outlets on the fuse box then have relay switches which will come back to the dash for the rocker switches… the blanks I mentioned before. Connect lights up to relays. And that’s that! Or so I thought…

 

I had it all planned in my head… until I read the comment about not connecting directly to battery.

Now I know there are 3x 60amp fuses stationed under the drivers seat with the batteries. However it’s this area that i don’t understand - if I cannot connect directly to battery, and have to use the 60amp outputs, I know I can take from one of the 60amp points, going to my isolator switch and then on to power the lights, I’m 100% that that is safe and correct to do, the isolator just acts as a master switch.

However, can I still do the third battery, and with the isolator switch in “both”, is it safe to then be in parallel with the 3rd battery??? The 3rd battery would be the same battery as the van’s which are a 75 or 80Ah.

Or would I need to connect to 2 of the 60amp outlets putting in a 80 or 100amp fuse before the isolator?

Or is the 3rd battery wired as I was hoping (utilising the isolator switch) completely impossible? And if I wanted the 3rd battery, then I’d be best to just wire batteries together directly with a separate isolator switch on its own circuit (in parallel obviously). Meaning lights power from 1 of the 60amp fuses. The isolator that I’ve got, would now basically be a master on/off. And I get another isolator and connect the 3rd battery to… well I guess the rear battery which is the starter battery, for the sole purpose of a jump battery.

 

Thinking about it, coming off of the 60amp outlet, I can still connect the third battery to my isolator switch, if I wanted to run lights with engine off, and not drain van battery, but not put it into the both position.

If I did that, and connected the batteries directly with a separate isolator for jumpstart purposes (which I think this is fine to do?), then I would need to make sure that both isolator switches weren’t switched on accordingly as then it would be taking jointly from van battery and the third.

 

I assume with ignition off, the 3 outlets are powered from the front leisure battery?

 

If I went separate circuit, I’m 99% sure I can actually turn the battery isolator on, and it charge up that battery also?

 

What is the best and safest way to go about this? I want a third battery to help start. I’m not overly fussed about using them with engine off, so separate circuits I’d be happy enough with. Little extra work but not a big deal. Feel like I’m answering my own question now

 

Any advice, anything useful, I’d be most appreciative of. I understand simple circuits, but that array of what’s under the seat, fandangled electrical components, the fact there’s a relay or something that then connects the 2 batteries with the engine on, the mystery of why Ford have provided the 3 outlets, and stated not to connect directly. I just don’t understand.

 

Ps, please don’t say check my handbook, it’s in French, and my French isn’t the best, let alone techie stuff in French.

 

If you’ve made it this far, thank you, long read and written thoughts ??

 

Dave

[Robinhood]

I'm not going to offer specific advice, but have you referred to the Transit BEMM (body and equipment mounting manual) which gives official Ford advice on adding additional equpment to a Transit base? There is a good amount on adding electrics in there, with a plethora of detail.

 

The BEMMs aren't as easy to download as they were, but a Google search on "mk7 transit bemm" gives a hit to a downloadable pdf on https://avtolib.ru/

 

The 2006.05 version it shows should be ok for your purposes. (It was still current in 2010)

 

(I'm not at home at the moment, and not going to download a several hundred page pdf on mobile to check, so be careful. If you can't get hold of it, I don't think I've deleted my copy at home, so could probably get it to you later via other routes)

[Derek Uzzell]

dave_ssfr - 2021-11-11 4:00 PM

 

...Ps, please don’t say check my handbook, it’s in French, and my French isn’t the best, let alone techie stuff in French...

 

Dave

 

A French Ford dealer should be able to obtain an appropriate English-language handbook for your 2009 Transit. When I imported a LHD Transit from Germany in 2005, I asked Ford(UK) if they could provide an English-language handbook and was given one free of charge, while a local Ford dealer sold me a handbook for the Transit’s radio for £1. However - for ’technical’ information - you’d be much better off getting the Owners Workshop Manual for Transit Mk 7 vehicles (2006-2013) that Haynes now publishes.

 

https://haynes.com/en-gb/ford/transit-connect/2003-2009-18-diesel-425646-diesel?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI06PZrKKS9AIVpujtCh366gg6EAQYASABEgJ5VfD_BwE

 

Regarding adding another battery to a Transit with the ’2-battery’ arrangement, this came up on the Ford Transit forum in 2018 and 2019

 

https://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=186986

 

https://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=186986&start=15

 

This 2010 Motorhome Matters thread also relates to the Transit 2-battery set-up

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ford-Transit-batteries/19839/

 

and it will be noted that the UK motorhome manufacturer Auto-Sleepers was then supplementing the 60Ah service/accommodation battery factory-fitted by Ford with an additional 85Ah battery. (Not surprising, as those motorhomes usually had a diesel-fuelled heater that was tough on batteries.) I don’t know how Auto-Sleepers cabled up the 85Ah battery, but Clive advised

 

...if you want more capacity I would just link my leisure battery directly in parallel with the second battery under the seat with 35 sqmm cable. Why does it need to be more complicated than that?

 

Presumably the caveat about not taking power directly from the 60Ah battery is to do with fusing (or the lack of it), but Clive would have anticipated that any right-thinking motorcaravanner parallel-connecting another battery to the 60Ah original would include fusing. Otherwise you could connect the 3rd battery to one of the 60A fused outlets that Ford has provided for running 12V ancilliary equipment. Either approach seems OK to me. (As the 60Ah battery is providing power for starting the vehicle, the 3rd battery should be a starter-battery type rather than a ‘leisure-battery’ type.)

 

I don’t much care for your idea to mount the 3rd battery above the cab. Unless you choose a battery that needs no venting (ie. a gel or AGM type) you should run a vent tube from the 3rd battery, preferably to exit below the vehicle, as (hopefully!) is the case with the present 2 batteries under the driver’s seat. The sensible place to put the 3rd battery would be at floor level and as close to the 2nd battery as practicable.

 

I’m also wary of your ‘isolation’ idea, as - when the van’s engine was stopped and the lights were running just from the 3rd battery - it offers the potential for the 3rd battery to be flattened by the lights, but the 2nd battery remaining well charged. When you’d ‘un-isolated' the 3rd battery and the engine was restarted, I just don’t know how the Ford system would react to being presented with a well-charged 2nd battery connected to a flat 3rd battery. (I understand your thinking - it’s the unpredicability that’s concerning.)

 

You might consider following the KISS Principle

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

 

and initially restrict your modifications to connecting the 3rd battery to the 60Ah one, connecting up the extra lights with the necessary fuses and switches and leaving ‘isolation’ for the future.

[Brian Kirby]

I'm not sure I've quite got the hang of your problem yet. As I understand, you need the auxiliary external lights for work, possibly in connection with some additional internal lights at the rear? I'm assuming this is a work van in which you are not living, and which has not been converted as a motorhome?

If so, two things occur to me.

 

First, as I understand the way you're using your van, I can't see why it is proving difficult to start after standing for only a few days. Were you using any of the auxiliary lights (internal or external) during those few days? If not, the starting difficulty seems most likely due to one or other of the existing batteries being past its sell-by date. How old are these batteries?

 

Second, what it seems you are doing is very similar to what happens in motorhomes, which is to have a demand for 12V power while static, and not wanting, for obvious reasons, to draw that power from the starter battery. The usual solution to that problem in motorhomes is to install a battery to meet just those demands, which is connected in parallel with the vehicle batteries (and so the alternator) via a relay when the engine is running, and disconnected when the engine stops. In this way, running down the supplementary battery while static has no impact on the starter battery, which should retain its charge for much longer that yours seems to achieve. Hence my starter battery age query above.

 

The relay required for this is often referred to as a "split charge" relay, and is a common addition to motorhomes (and also to caravanner's tow cars), to allow this additional battery to charge while driving and to isolate it when the engine is stopped. It is a "usually open" type relay that closes when the engine is started, to connect the supplementary battery to the starter battery for charging purposes, but at other times separates them.

 

In effect, this would seem to give you what I think you want. A "work" battery that is automatically charged from the alternator while driving, and automatically isolated from the starter battery when the engine is stopped, allowing it to be used with no impact on the starter battery charge state.

 

This should be relatively easy to achieve by installing your "work" battery under the passengers seat, connecting it in parallel with one of (don't know which) the existing batteries under the driver's seat via the split charge relay, and suitably fusing (min 30A?) the "+" interconnecting cable. These cables are usually run beneath the floor matting between the two seat bases. Then, all the split charge relay needs is a signal cable from the alternator to tell it when to close its contacts.

 

You then take your supplementary lighting feeds off the "work" battery via a small fuseboard to the existing light switches you are presently using. In view of the power of those lights I would suggest one fuse per light, rated to protect the connecting cables from overload. That way, if one light blows its fuse the others should remain working. The reason for fusing the cables (as close to the battery as possible) is that a if fault or short circuit develops in the cable or the light the effect is to short the battery, causing a sudden and very rapid rise in the temperature of the supply cable to the point at which it will melt (in effect becoming its own fuse) and possibly (probably?) set fire to the van. That, you do not want!

 

One last thing. From your description of the lights it seems the battery load will be quite high while using them, so you'll need to work out approximately how long you may have them in use, and then calculate their total consumption in that period in kWh to estimate the battery capacity required - remembering that the battery will need to start off fully charged, and should not be discharged below 60% of its capacity in use if it is not to b damaged. The rate of discharge will then determine the type of battery best suited to your needs, and possibly whether you'll need more than one to meet that need. You will also need to take into account the rate at which the vehicle alternator can re-charge the supplementary battery/ies, as I suspect this may involve a need to drive for several hours between spells working to maintain the battery/ies charged. Final comment, you'll also need to check the physical sizes of suitable batteries - including their height over the terminals, to be sure they can be fitted under the passenger seat.

 

From your description above, I just wonder if the existing starter battery has been run down into its "twilight zone", and that is why it is struggling to start the van. You may find, when the sums are done, that you need to install a mains powered battery charger to maintain all the batteries in peak condition, so that they do what is needed as, and when, needed. But I think that is a matter of detail, to be pursued separately, once the broad scheme is clear. But, it is all doable.

 

If what I've sketched out seems about right, I'll leave it to the others, who know what to connect to where, in what cable size, and with which size protective fuses, on what type of battery, of what capacity, to explain further. :-)

[dave_ssfr]

Derek and Brian, thank you both for such useful replies, and the time you’ve both taken to put them together.

 

I will try and work my way through both your replies and respond to each bit where necessary.

 

Derek,

 

I really do need to get a Haynes manual, I did look on eBay but silly money, plus post, plus import taxes as I expect I’ll need to get one from the uk. Will shop around though.

 

The 2nd Ford transit.org link, that is very interesting. It rules out one possible way of wiring it up, due to “it will blow the fuse”. I’m gathering from the comments on that post that it should be ok to connect in a third battery, in parallel to one of the existing batteries. And to basically take a feed off of one of the 60amp outlets under the seat, and good to go from there. Keeping that third battery and the lighting circuit separate. Which is fine, I was hoping to keep things neat and tidy, and have a multifunction switch, but looks like that isn’t viable. Running the lights with the engine off… is fine, the type of lights they are, their purpose, not necessary.

 

 

The cables that I have already purchased, I have some large 16mm2 which are rated for 110amp, and the actual wires that will be used for the light supply are 10mm2 which are good for 70amp. I have used some app to calculate, it should be fine, and is the recommended size by the light manufacturer.

The 110amp cable was for connecting the batteries in parallel, however I’m gathering I’ve gotten the wrong size? 35mm2, wow ok.

 

Quoting Derek, Otherwise you could connect the 3rd battery to one of the 60A fused outlets that Ford has provided for running 12V ancilliary equipment.

 

Not sure if I’m misunderstanding but I’m not sure that’s right? Unless you mean disconnecting the van from supplying on one of the 60amp fuses and connecting the 3rd battery to it. In which case no, not going to go that route.

 

I’m glad that you mentioned the battery above and the need for venting. I had completely forgotten that they have little vent tubes. The idea WAS so that I had easy access to it, should I need to take it out and stick it on charge, but I don’t think I actually need to do that?? Because in parallel the alternator (from previous research) should be capable. I’ll come back to this…

 

Presumably a sealed battery would have no need for venting?

If I were to get a gel battery, is it ok to have a gel in parallel with the existing battery (existing batteries were newly fitted in Feb of this year, and are Varta 75Ah - can’t remember the model)

 

Your final paragraph re the isolation, yes, that is a valid point, totally agree with most of what you said. The bit about 1 battery being drained (potentially) and a fully charged. I don’t think that would be an issue. With the standard dual battery setup, I understand that the front battery (leisure) and rear battery (starter) are isolated from each other, and as soon as the ignition is turned on, they are then both in parallel. So technically both batteries are cranking the engine, but you have the starter battery with full cranking power. So theoretically if you’d had interior lights on, radio etc and the leisure depleted somewhat, then that would be the case anyway no?? With the 3rd battery.

 

I think I’m gathering what way I need to do it. What a headache trying to figure this all out. It would be straight forward if it was ok to latch straight onto the battery.

 

Also, nearly missed the last bit, the idea of the isolation switch was so I had a multifunction switch, I could connect batteries in parallel one way, power the lights from the van, power them from the 3rd, and, a master on/off switch all rolled in to one. Master on/off, was so that while driving if I see headlights coming, I can just flick one switch rather than 3! However I can still use the isolation switch I have as a master on/off for the lights, so I’m happy enough in that respect! :-D

 

Anyway, Derek, thank you!

 

 

Moving on to Brian,

 

Correct, it’s a work van (as said in original post, I thought here would be a good place to ask given you motorhome guys can be running high loads)

 

The problem is trying to figure out how, what and where to wire things up, though I think I have it figured out.

The lights are purely for driving dark unlit roads, where I have encountered anything from dogs, rabbits, hare, boar, deer, foxes, and believe it or not Cows! (yep, on 2 occasions!) crossing or wandering along fast roads late at night. So whilst transit lights are fantastic, I want more light! Further and wider.

Rigid Industries have a motto of, “Light up the night”. So no they are not for work purposes (scene lighting), and being realistic, I have no need to run them when the engine is off.

 

Starting issues, I don’t understand either, I replaced both batteries in Feb this year with Varta 75Ah batteries. As I think I said in my original post, I’d left it for a few day, when I went to start the engine the interior cab and rear cargo area were lit up, and the radio on, and turning them all off, it started straight up. Could be the leisure battery was a little low, and with the lights on maybe it was too much. Those LED strips I have in the rear cargo area are pretty powerful. In hindsight the smaller version would’ve been ok, they can drain the leisure battery a bit quick.

 

 

What I am steering towards, is connecting a third battery to the starter battery, with a fuse of course, with an isolator switch, so that I can chose when they are connected. Leaving the switch on, I think should be ok to charge?? I will most likely put a push button volt meter in too.

Although it would be off most of the time, starting issues is more so a problem during colder months when left, than summer. Would I still need a split charge relay, given it’s already got the dual battery setup, in this instance? And if so, with engine on and alternator charging, how would it split the charge between the existing dual setup, and the 3rd?

 

Fusing, I think the way it’s going to go, there’ll be the 60amp fuse, which leads onto the fuse box in the engine bay, the light bar will have its own fuse, the light pods are in pairs and will be fused per pair. If there’s an internal short, I believe it knocks out just the LED or the sections, one shorting shouldn’t knock the other, these lights are over £1000, they’re insane (and so am I for buying them lol)

 

I will have a look to see if I can find some sort of battery calculator. My longest drive home is 50min, and obviously I’ll have been driving around in daylight charging up, so it’s only those times driving home when it’s dark, though that is unavoidable now with it being dark around 6:30pm. And the lights will be off if there’s oncoming traffic, or I’m behind someone so the chances of them being on for long periods is minimal. Except if I was driving up to the uk, however thanks to brexit, import export hassle, it’s unlikely, but we’re that to happen, I could have them periodically on and off for a few hours, but van lights on motorway are sufficient. There’s only a few forest sections on N roads I’d run them.

 

Not a bad idea at all re a mains charger… at least I could connect some plugs to each battery and charge them separately (such as an Oxford charger with a motorbike lead)

 

 

I think in the overall scheme of things, I will come off one of the 60amp fuses under the seat, where it will go to a lower fuse (40amp), and onto my isolator, sorry, fancy overkill master on/off switch. Which will feed through to the engine bay, where there’ll be a fuse box where it then feeds off to the lights, there’s relays for them, so the individual switches will come back and be mounted on the dash.

The 3rd battery idea, as it would be a separate circuit, I might leave this to a later date, if it is even needed! But if and when I do, I will simply parallel it to the starter battery and have a switch. And use it purely as a wired in jump pack. If it absolutely will not start, I can switch it on, and hopefully start. As for charging it, to save the headache of a split charge relay, I can just charge it via mains once a month. Once it starts the engine, I can switch it back off.

 

I think that’s the most straightforward least complicated simplified way?

 

Again thank you both for the info, thoughts, and time you’ve taken to reply. Really do appreciate it!

[Brian Kirby]

dave_ssfr - 2021-11-12 9:42 PM

 

Derek and Brian, thank you both for such useful replies, and the time you’ve both taken to put them together. ............................

 

Moving on to Brian,

 

1 Correct, it’s a work van (as said in original post, I thought here would be a good place to ask given you motorhome guys can be running high loads)..........................

 

2 The lights are purely for driving dark unlit roads, where I have encountered anything from dogs, rabbits, hare, boar, deer, foxes, and believe it or not Cows! (yep, on 2 occasions!) crossing or wandering along fast roads late at night. So whilst transit lights are fantastic, I want more light! Further and wider................................

 

3 Starting issues, I don’t understand either, I replaced both batteries in Feb this year with Varta 75Ah batteries. As I think I said in my original post, I’d left it for a few day, when I went to start the engine the interior cab and rear cargo area were lit up, and the radio on, and turning them all off, it started straight up.

 

4 Could be the leisure battery was a little low, and with the lights on maybe it was too much. Those LED strips I have in the rear cargo area are pretty powerful. In hindsight the smaller version would’ve been ok, they can drain the leisure battery a bit quick......................................

 

5 Again thank you both for the info, thoughts, and time you’ve taken to reply. Really do appreciate it!

1 OK. Understood.

 

2 In view of you comments at 2 above, I've clearly misunderstood your use of the lights. Apologies. I had, as you surmise, imagined these were for "scene" lighting, and not for driving. So, please disregard all the stuff about split charge relays etc.

 

3 My bold above - do you mean that when you entered the van the lights /radio were on, or that they came on when you turned on the ignition? If the latter, I think there must be a wiring fault somewhere that is causing that. If they were on when you entered the van, it seems you may have left them on the last time you used the van, which even over a few days, 24/7, would have discharged the starter battery quite heavily.

 

4 My bold above - you mentioned the leisure battery in your first post, but I missed it! Is this the second battery under the driver's seat? I had understood that to be part of the original Ford installation (where some vehicles have two "starter" batteries - one often an AGM used in conjunction with stop/start functionality)?

 

5 For what it was worth (not a lot, I think! :-)) you're welcome!

 

But, something doesn't gel. You're adding driving lights with a combined high electrical load. Conventionally, the starter battery is just that, it is for starting the engine and little more. When driving, the power to the vehicle is provided from the alternator, which also re-charges the starter battery. Adding batteries gives the alternator more work to do, so leaves less of its available output available for other functions (i.e. lights, radio, heater blower, windscreen wipers etc).

 

If the demand from your auxiliary lights is such that there is insufficient alternator output to charge the starter battery as well as run the lights etc., I think the solution would probably be to upgrade the alternator rather than adding batteries.

 

In effect, it seems possible that the starter battery is getting insufficiently re-charged while you are driving, so leaving it under charged when you next come to re-start the van. This would be progressive, so that each time you drive with the auxiliary lights on, the battery arrives a little flatter rather than fully re-charged. If that is the case, I think there is a possibility that the alternator is currently being over-worked and will be prone to premature failure.

 

Under those circumstances, I think, adding batteries would make the situation worse, not better. I'll be interested to see what others, who know far more about vehicle electrics than I do, think on this subject.

 

Then, wiring the auxiliary lights from a spare way in the main Ford fuse box (or a supplementary box if there are no spare ways), would seem the simplest way to feed them - with a beefier alternator to provide the extra current.

[dave_ssfr]

Maybe easiest if I reply in turn to your numbered points.

 

2. No worries at all. Scene lighting would be great, but the 2 LED strips in the rear cargo area provide loads of light if I’m doing anything in the area of the side or rear doors.

 

3. No, where I’d opened the door to get in, the lights automatically came on as normal, only for some odd reason, Ford decided to wire up the rear cargo lights to come on when entering the cab… I can turn off one of 2 of the cab lights and that stops the rear cargo light coming on unless I actually open the side door. Why on earth they did that is beyond me. As for the radio, no that came on with the ignition. Cranked the engine to no avail, turned the radio and interior lights off (they stay on for a few seconds after closing door) and fired right up.

 

4. Yes, this is the standard Ford dual battery setup. On the subject of batteries, I missed covering i think it was your suggestion of placing a third under the passenger seat, I’m not too sure that’s possible due to the framework for the bench seat. Would be handy being there, but I just don’t think there’d be the space.

 

 

The alternator I would assume, is capable of charging both batteries, or at least I would hope so as it’s Ford fitment 8-) where I had made the query on the transit forum last year, they said that the alternator would be fine and more than capable. However I will ask… is the alternator likely to be labelled with an output or how do I establish what the output is? Do Ford do more powerful alternators?

 

With regards to charge in the battery diminishing over (a short) time, I understand what you’re saying, but bare in mind that generally speaking, I am driving around during the day, I can do anything from 30km to 150km on any given day, and that the lights will only be used when it gets dark, on unlit roads and zero traffic in front. They won’t be constantly on. So I don’t expect that should be an issue.

I’ll see how it goes, worst case scenario, I blow a fuse, or i see lights go dim and turn them off.

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2013 Ford Transit Forum thread is the best I can find for describing the twin-battery arrangement fitted to some RWD Transit Mk 6/Mk 7 vehicles. (The thread also discusses adding a 3rd battery, venting, etc.)

 

https://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=132536

 

There seems to be some question about whether a factory-fitted Transit twin-battery set-up would always include a coupler/separator relay, but it should be visibly obvious when a relay is present in the driver’s-seat base that holds the two batteries. (photo of relay attached below).

[Robinhood]

The BEMM manual I referenced above, hopefully downloadable from:

 

https://avtolib.ru/li/ford/2006.50Transit%28V-347%29BEMM.pdf

 

provides some detail of the dual-battery set-up for the Mk7, along with the isolation mechanism and other connection recommendations (and confirms that Ford's advice is not to connect directly to the battery).

 

The link is good - now back home I've tested it.

[witzend]

dave_ssfr - 2021-11-11 4:00 PM

 

So, it’s a 2009 transit jumbo. 2.4 100ps

I am wanting to add some lights to my bullbar and maybe bonnet.

 

 

Aren't Bull Bars illegal now

[dave_ssfr]

Robinhood - 2021-11-14 10:35 AM

 

The BEMM manual I referenced above, hopefully downloadable from:

 

https://avtolib.ru/li/ford/2006.50Transit%28V-347%29BEMM.pdf

 

provides some detail of the dual-battery set-up for the Mk7, along with the isolation mechanism and other connection recommendations (and confirms that Ford's advice is not to connect directly to the battery).

 

The link is good - now back home I've tested it.

 

Omg Robinhood you are a star! I clicked the link you first sent but it brought me to the forum itself, which is all in Russian so couldn’t go any further. The link for the pdf, Jesus Christ that’s got so much info. Have been scanning through it for the last 30-45mins, I can’t believe there’s torque/hp charts in there too! I’d tried over the years to find that info so I could work out approx where the most efficient rpm to drive at was, to no avail. Once managed to obtain an absurd miles to a tank on a previous car that I’d had on a dyno, which on that graph gave the air/fuel reading. AF at its minimum = max torque = maximum economy (on motorway). Inner nerd trying to beat the system haha

 

Looking at page 120… I quote:

 

“NOTE: Do not exceed the 60A per fuse rating.

Where the load exceeds the above ratings (which can be combined to provide 180A), a separate take-off is possible directly from the battery clamp / post (the non-start-relevant battery for twin battery systems), although this is not recommended. In such cases, suitable in-line protection needs to be included as part of the added circuit, for example:- for tipper and tail-lift motors.”

 

That suggests to me, that I can indeed wire it up, with a 3rd battery, exactly as I had initially hoped to, with the correct fusing, and be able to use my isolator switch as intended, as a multi function switch, where I could have the system off, I could power lights from the front battery, I could power them from the 3rd battery (not necessary) and I could connect the front battery with the 3rd if I needed a boost of power if I had starting issues, given that the dual setup is in parallel once the key is turned. The key thing being… appropriately fused.

 

The isolator switch is this one by the way: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rotary-Marine-Battery-Isolator-Changeover-Switch-Durite-0-605-10-/222665553405?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

 

Good for 310amp continuous. If I’ve understood the alternator graphs correctly, it’s producing around 150/160amp??

So it should be fine.

Question then is, if I put a 40-50amp inline fuse immediately after the isolator feeding off to the light’s circuit, a… master fuse if you will for the lighting circuit (appropriately fused at the fuse box for the individual lights, 20a, 15a and 7a?).

What size fuses would I need to put that would cover from front battery to isolator, isolator to third battery (as it is advisable to put a fuse immediately off of a positive, for safety reasons, the cable from 3rd to isolator, would need one each end, as it could be live from either direction.

 

I can draw something out on paper and take a pic if it helps?!

 

I will read some more of the pdf. Thanks a million for this!

 

[dave_ssfr]

witzend - 2021-11-14 11:05 AM

 

dave_ssfr - 2021-11-11 4:00 PM

 

So, it’s a 2009 transit jumbo. 2.4 100ps

I am wanting to add some lights to my bullbar and maybe bonnet.

 

 

Aren't Bull Bars illegal now

 

Umm err maybe? When I had it CT’d (MOT) last year, the stringent Frenchman didn’t fail or give an advisory for the bull bar, but did fail on something else that he didn’t understand or even try to understand, miscommunication probably didn’t help. Fixed the minor issues and went to a different CT station and they were fine about it. Although he did mess up when doing emissions as the probe kept falling out and he just gave up in the end lol, went back last week for the emissions to be done and it went fine this time. In France, commercial vehicles have a CT every 2 years, but the year inbetween we have to get emissions checked. Normal cars are every 2 years.

 

As for the legality or rather illegality… I see plenty of cars (inc hgv’s), some even brand new at showrooms with factory fitted bull bars in the exact same design (Dacia dusters for example). The gendarmes have never batted an eyelid at it either. So unless I’m told to remove it for a CT or by the gendarmes, it’s staying.

 

It was got for 2 reasons, to mount the lights on, and I’d seen the destruction a friends car received from impacting a boar ??. I don’t need that on my work vehicle.

 

[witzend]

dave_ssfr - 2021-11-14 12:26 PM

 

witzend - 2021-11-14 11:05 AM

 

dave_ssfr - 2021-11-11 4:00 PM

 

So, it’s a 2009 transit jumbo. 2.4 100ps

I am wanting to add some lights to my bullbar and maybe bonnet.

 

 

Aren't Bull Bars illegal now

 

Umm err maybe? When I had it CT’d (MOT) last year, the stringent Frenchman didn’t fail or give an advisory for the bull bar,

 

Sorry didn't realise you where in France

[dave_ssfr]

witzend - 2021-11-14 1:35 PM

 

dave_ssfr - 2021-11-14 12:26 PM

 

witzend - 2021-11-14 11:05 AM

 

dave_ssfr - 2021-11-11 4:00 PM

 

So, it’s a 2009 transit jumbo. 2.4 100ps

I am wanting to add some lights to my bullbar and maybe bonnet.

 

 

Aren't Bull Bars illegal now

 

Umm err maybe? When I had it CT’d (MOT) last year, the stringent Frenchman didn’t fail or give an advisory for the bull bar,

 

Sorry didn't realise you where in France

 

I take it they’re banned in the UK then?

[Robinhood]

Now I've downloaded it, I note that the version linked to there is the initial Mk7 version. Much of the information is probably still correct for a 2009 model, but I've uploaded a 2010 version I have to the following link, just in case it is more useful (the content is different)

 

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gd6975587c54b80c81000390989db7f8be01ee2137a

 

It will be there for 7 days, and I've safely used that site before.

[dave_ssfr]

Robinhood - 2021-11-14 1:54 PM

 

Now I've downloaded it, I note that the version linked to there is the initial Mk7 version. Much of the information is probably still correct for a 2009 model, but I've uploaded a 2010 version I have to the following link, just in case it is more useful (the content is different)

 

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gd6975587c54b80c81000390989db7f8be01ee2137a

 

It will be there for 7 days, and I've safely used that site before.

 

Thanking you, I think mine is the earlier version. Dereks forum link had a reference to later ones and their 12v socket being ignition powered, where mine is powered permanently. I did find the same as what I quoted above regarding connecting in parallel but to ensure fuses are used

[dave_ssfr]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-11-14 10:20 AM

 

This 2013 Ford Transit Forum thread is the best I can find for describing the twin-battery arrangement fitted to some RWD Transit Mk 6/Mk 7 vehicles. (The thread also discusses adding a 3rd battery, venting, etc.)

 

https://fordtransit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=132536

 

There seems to be some question about whether a factory-fitted Transit twin-battery set-up would always include a coupler/separator relay, but it should be visibly obvious when a relay is present in the driver’s-seat base that holds the two batteries. (photo of relay attached below).

 

Thanks Derek, that looks pretty much like mine from what I can recall. From the pdf that Robinhood posted, I'd have to look at an identical battery type and power, which is fine, but the Varta batteries are vented from what I remember. Might be a way though - if I can find suitable piping! From what I've established from the Ford pdf, it’s doable and safe.