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Travel within the EU in 2020


spospe

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I have just received the following from DFDS as part of a promotional email ....................

 

 

Just because we’ve left the European Union, it doesn’t mean your travels need to change!

 

In fact, travel arrangements will stay exactly the same until the end of the year at the earliest.

 

We have now moved into a transition period until approximately the 31 December 2020. During this time:

 

Your passport will still be valid

 

Your European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) will still be valid

 

You won’t need to apply for a visa

 

You don’t need to apply for an International Driving Permit

 

Pet travel regulations remain the same

 

Mobile phone roaming will continue to be free throughout the EU

 

See you soon,

DFDS

 

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spospe - 2020-02-07 7:01 PM

We have now moved into a transition period until approximately the 31 December 2020. During this time:

Your passport will still be valid

Your European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) will still be valid

You won’t need to apply for a visa

You don’t need to apply for an International Driving Permit

Pet travel regulations remain the same

Mobile phone roaming will continue to be free throughout the EU

 

I received a similar e mail yesterday.

 

Yes, all OK for now but as 31st December 2020 approaches we will have to keep up with the changes. Hopefully not too much that affects us will change but at least some of the above are bound to alter, we shall all just have to be aware.

Cattwg :-D

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I have just had an unambiguous reply to a query regarding the Schengen 'rules' (especially the 90 day in 180 day rule) from the Caravan and Motorhome Club and it is to the effect that 2020 can be considered as previous years and that Schengen can be ignored.

 

This means that I can take my usual two, 60 day holidays as in previous years without having to worry about the 90 days in 180 days 'rule'.

 

2021 is anyone's guess and is totally dependent on the details of our "deal"

 

edited for grammar

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spospe - 2020-02-13 12:13 PM

 

2021 is anyone's guess and is totally dependent on the details of our "deal"

 

 

Correct. But there are only two possibilities for 2021 onwards.

Either the Johnson government does a backflip and accepts Freedom of Movement, or the 90/180 Schengen rules will kick in - in full.

No "tweaking" of those rules can even be on the agenda for EU/UK talks, because Schengen is a separate international treaty, some of whose signatories aren't in the EU.

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It's not a question of "accepting the EU's stance.

Schengen is, as I pointed out above, a separate treaty which includes most (not all) EU countries, plus some others. So it can't even be on the agenda for this year's negotiations between the EU and the UK.

The reason Brexit "triggers" it is because, when it was drawn up, the EU (and wider EEA) already had it's Freedom of Movement principle, so it couldn't restrict the free movement of citizens of EU countries.

So, unless the UK government backtracks and accepts Freedom of Movement, all the Schengen rules WILL apply from the end of the Transition period.

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I think assume is all you can do, as certainty on detail is in short supply. It now seems reasonably clear that the Schengen 90 days in 180 days rule will not apply to UK nationals during transition. But even that is not entirely unconditional.

 

Your assumption seems reasonable to me, but the UK has never been in Schengen, and we do not, as yet, have any progress on the future agreements with the EU post transition. In fact, they have not yet formally started.

 

As Tony says above, our travel rights were gained under the EU free movement directives, which applied for so long as we remained members. As we have now left the EU, transition is a concessionary, temporary, agreement to which we are not entitled, which extends those inherited rights during the period in which we and the EU seek to negotiate a new relationship with the UK as a "third country".

 

Transition may, or may not, be extended for want of negotiating progress, it may, or may not, be necessary to get your passport stamped at the end of transition so as to formally record the beginning of the 180 day window and your 90 day allowance, and we may, or may not, fail to reach agreement and so leave with no agreement on, after, or before, Dec 31 2020.

 

PS. Thank you Michael, I got in just in time - 2020 it should have been! :-D

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Good morning,

 

If I did stay more than the 90 days how would I know that they would not want me to stay longer? They might want me and Mrs goldi to stay and keep spending money on their campsites etc. One campsite owner told meat a campsite in the Dordogne that without the Dutch and Brits going early and late season they would go bust, so unless we are obliged to stay longer it will be detrimental to the French tourist industry. The French know more than a thing or two about extracting money from the gullible brits. Anyway mr Goldi and I are booked again for France for June. Of course I could understand their displeasure at the boondockers.

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goldi - 2020-02-20 11:22 AM

 

Good morning,

 

If I did stay more than the 90 days how would I know that they would not want me to stay longer? They might want me and Mrs goldi to stay and keep spending money on their campsites etc. One campsite owner told meat a campsite in the Dordogne that without the Dutch and Brits going early and late season they would go bust, so unless we are obliged to stay longer it will be detrimental to the French tourist industry. The French know more than a thing or two about extracting money from the gullible brits. Anyway mr Goldi and I are booked again for France for June. Of course I could understand their displeasure at the boondockers.

Sorry, can't quite follow all of the above, but it seems there may be a misunderstanding.

 

The UK has now officially left the EU, as of 31 Jan 2020. During the rest of 2020 (and beyond if the UK government agrees to an extension to the negotiations on the new relationship between UK and EU) we are in an agreed transition period which, for so long as the negotiations continue, allows us, as individuals, to continue benefitting from the freedom of movement rights we had as EU members. But, as soon as those negotiations conclude, at whatever date, with or without agreement, we become, in terms of visiting the EU, third country nationals, and so subject to the same requirements as the rest of the world. The only exception would be if special visiting rights were included in the negotiated future relationship agreement.

 

Third countries fall into two groups, those requiring visas, and those not requiring visas but instead requiring a visa waiver that currently costs €7 and lasts for three years. The EU has already placed the UK in the latter group - but this only becomes relevant after the transition period has ended. It has no relevance to travel during transition.

 

As to how you would know, it will be because once transition ends our passports will be date stamped when we enter the EU/Schengen area, and again when we leave that area. From the date of the entry stamp you will be allowed to spend a maximum of 90 days in the EU/Schengen zone within 180 days from that date. If, when you come to leave, you have exceeded the 90 days limit (verifiable from the date stamps), whether in one trip or over several, you will be subject to penalties, the severity of which vary according to the duration of the overstay, but which include substantial fines or even banning. At some point in 2021 the border controls will pass to a computer based system, ETIAS, that will record your entries and exits and will automatically flag up your passport if you exceed your entitlement.

 

Staying within the 90 days limit, and calculating how that fits into the 180 days "window" is our individual responsibility, as it is for all other third country visitors. It will have nothing to do whatever with what camp-site owners might want, or wish for. If you overstay you will cop it, whatever any camp-site owner may tell you. I'm sorry if I've got the wrong end of your stick, but hope this clarifies the present situation a bit. Of course, things may change as time passes.

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Just to add that although ETIAS has not yet been implemented, computerised passport checks in various form have existed for several years, hence the machine readable information included in UK passports.

 

Our passports were scanned at border control when leaving The Netherlands last year, and they were suddenly very interested in why two people in a motorhome were returning to the UK only a couple of days after arriving, so that information was obviously instantly available as a result of the scan.

 

They became less interested after my wife waved her plaster cast at them and produced the hospital letter recommending surgery as soon as possible, but they were probably envisioning cutting the van apart at first, to find the concealed contraband they may have been suspecting!

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flyboyprowler - 2020-02-19 9:13 PM

 

We have signed up to the following website, that is now starting to get some heavy support. I think it's worth a look, as it could well be that, if it succeeds, holders of the card could still retain their travel rights. Have a look, and I would appreciate your thoughts!

 

https://www.stayeuropean.org/

Thanks. Done!!

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Brian Kirby - 2020-02-20 1:09 PM

 

goldi - 2020-02-20 11:22 AM

 

Good morning,

 

If I did stay more than the 90 days how would I know that they would not want me to stay longer? They might want me and Mrs goldi to stay and keep spending money on their campsites etc. One campsite owner told meat a campsite in the Dordogne that without the Dutch and Brits going early and late season they would go bust, so unless we are obliged to stay longer it will be detrimental to the French tourist industry. The French know more than a thing or two about extracting money from the gullible brits. Anyway mr Goldi and I are booked again for France for June. Of course I could understand their displeasure at the boondockers.

Sorry, can't quite follow all of the above, but it seems there may be a misunderstanding.

 

The UK has now officially left the EU, as of 31 Jan 2020. During the rest of 2020 (and beyond if the UK government agrees to an extension to the negotiations on the new relationship between UK and EU) we are in an agreed transition period which, for so long as the negotiations continue, allows us, as individuals, to continue benefitting from the freedom of movement rights we had as EU members. But, as soon as those negotiations conclude, at whatever date, with or without agreement, we become, in terms of visiting the EU, third country nationals, and so subject to the same requirements as the rest of the world. The only exception would be if special visiting rights were included in the negotiated future relationship agreement.

 

Third countries fall into two groups, those requiring visas, and those not requiring visas but instead requiring a visa waiver that currently costs €7 and lasts for three years. The EU has already placed the UK in the latter group - but this only becomes relevant after the transition period has ended. It has no relevance to travel during transition.

 

As to how you would know, it will be because once transition ends our passports will be date stamped when we enter the EU/Schengen area, and again when we leave that area. From the date of the entry stamp you will be allowed to spend a maximum of 90 days in the EU/Schengen zone within 180 days from that date. If, when you come to leave, you have exceeded the 90 days limit (verifiable from the date stamps), whether in one trip or over several, you will be subject to penalties, the severity of which vary according to the duration of the overstay, but which include substantial fines or even banning. At some point in 2021 the border controls will pass to a computer based system, ETIAS, that will record your entries and exits and will automatically flag up your passport if you exceed your entitlement.

 

Staying within the 90 days limit, and calculating how that fits into the 180 days "window" is our individual responsibility, as it is for all other third country visitors. It will have nothing to do whatever with what camp-site owners might want, or wish for. If you overstay you will cop it, whatever any camp-site owner may tell you. I'm sorry if I've got the wrong end of your stick, but hope this clarifies the present situation a bit. Of course, things may change as time passes.

 

 

 

Good afternoon,

 

After reading what you have written Brian the EU begins to look more like a soviet tyranny and I am glad we are not art of it, even if it means We cannot go to the Eu as and when we want but there is always other places in the world. It would not be good for all the French motorhome manufacturers if they could not sell their vehicles because of the displeasure they have inflicted on us and what about the 12 to 20 million euros that come with the fines I suppose they would have to sacrifice that too.

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goldi - 2020-02-20 3:48 PM

 

Good afternoon,

 

After reading what you have written Brian the EU begins to look more like a soviet tyranny and I am glad we are not art of it, even if it means We cannot go to the Eu as and when we want but there is always other places in the world. It would not be good for all the French motorhome manufacturers if they could not sell their vehicles because of the displeasure they have inflicted on us and what about the 12 to 20 million euros that come with the fines I suppose they would have to sacrifice that too.

 

 

I can't see that the EU is " inflicting " anything on " us " .

 

It was " us " that decided to leave.

 

:-|

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goldi - 2020-02-20 3:48 PM

 

 

Good afternoon,

 

After reading what you have written Brian the EU begins to look more like a soviet tyranny and I am glad we are not art of it, even if it means We cannot go to the Eu as and when we want but there is always other places in the world. It would not be good for all the French motorhome manufacturers if they could not sell their vehicles because of the displeasure they have inflicted on us and what about the 12 to 20 million euros that come with the fines I suppose they would have to sacrifice that too.

 

I am struggling to see my local bowls club as a Soviet tyranny, but by your logic it is. I was a member for many years, but then decided to cancel my subscription. For many years, (40 odd), I used to simply pitch up and play as often as I wanted, and as long as I want. Because I am no longer a member a different set of rules now apply to me. I can still get a game of bowls there, on a pay as you go basis, but when I can play, and for how long, is subject to a different set of rules. The existing members consider that, since they pay an annual subscription, they should have a different and superior set of rights to me. What exactly is tyrannical about that? or indeed Soviet for that matter?

 

I tried putting your your thoughts about the French motorhome manufacturers through Google translate but, alas, nothing was clearer after I had done so. Please forgive me for not answering the substantive point that must be in there somewhere.

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Gosh, it's almost as if 17.4 million people DIDN'T know exactly what they were voting for!

 

Goldi, don't worry, you WILL still be able to visit whenever you want, up to 90 days in any 180.

But I think you've slightly overestimated the importance of the UK motorhome market to Continental manufacturers!

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