cheetra Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Hi, We are currently on holiday in the Peak district in our 4 year old Autotrail, which is fitted with a Truma 4E heating system. It worked fine (On electric setting) for a few days. We went out for a few hours, leaving the heater set to hot water on full electric power, (1800W). We returned to find we had lost all electric power, and found the RCD had tripped. I believe this is caused by a short to earth somewhere. This switch was reset OK, only to find the 16a supply from the bollard was also tripped. This was also reset OK, and then we found the heater would not work at all on electric, but was OK on gas only. I managed to get a local Truma guy out to look at it, and he reset it, by disconnecting the dc supply for a few seconds. It now starts up in electric mode, the fan starts, but it doesn't get warm. The truma guy thinks it is an element has failed, but says he does'nt have time to fix it, as the entire unit will have to be removed. I have booked in to a Truma dealer when we get home. My question is, when I set the heater to "gas and electric", even though the electric elements are kaput, should it fire up using gas? (It doesn't do this). Also I believe two elements are installed, should it work on one of them when I set to full electric power, or have both elements failed? Many thanks in advance for any replies...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I too have been plagued with problems with our Truma combi 4e, all to do with running on 240v power, (mine was new in 2012). On our first trip out , in November,so very cold. Unit 'red lighted' and refused to produce heat(had to buy an oiled filled radiator,which we now always carry) turned out to be a blown fuse on the AC control PCB, since then it 'red lights' randomly ,but never when being tested by the dealer. We now don't 'trust it' to perform as it should. I suspect a faulty AC control PCB but cannot prove it. Will not have another 'Truma' heated van. Much prefered our Eberspacher system in our previous Autocruise. Get the fuses (2) checked on the AC control PCB first before looking at elements. Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 PS. As a further complication, the fuses are not standard types. They are short glass fuses, ours were fitted by a mobile Truma approved engineer, get spares as we did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 cheetra - 2015-05-19 10:07 AM ...My question is, when I set the heater to "gas and electric", even though the electric elements are kaput, should it fire up using gas? (It doesn't do this). Also I believe two elements are installed, should it work on one of them when I set to full electric power, or have both elements failed? Many thanks in advance for any replies...... You’d be best asking the technicians at Truma(UK) as “Combi” heaters are more complex than the preceding C-Series appliances. http://www.truma.com/uk/en/home/service-center.php As a Combi’s ‘mixed’ mode (ie. 230V + gas) prioritises on 230V, I’d guess that a major 230V-operation fault (eg. a 230V element failure) might well impact on the secondary gas function. My understanding is that the two 230V 900W elements work in tandem rather than independently. So, when the heater operates on its 230V 900W setting both elements are essentially working on ‘half power’, not just one element working on 'full power'. Consequently, even if only one element has failed, 230V heating will not be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheetra Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Hi, Many thanks for your replies. The Truma Guy who came to us checked the fuses, and they were OK. He said he didn't think it was a Control Board problem, as it wasn't flashing an error code, so he was convinced it is an element problem. (Especially as it tripped the Residual Current Detector). Anyway, I guess when I take to my local Truma service centre, they will remove it and thouroughly check it on a test unit. I am expecting a large bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 In mixed mode, if you fail the electric elements by turning them off, the gas will take over and produce heating and hot water. When we are on sites with a low amperage connection, i.e. 6 Amps we often switch the two stages of electric off via a couple of isolating switches we have on our main control panel so that we can make a cup of tea or use the microwave. We have the CP+ panel and it is a pain to switch from mixed mode to gas only each time. When we do turn the electric elements off we get an alarm warning on the CP+ panel which cancels when we switch the supply back on. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graementl Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 My 4e is undergoing similar problems and is currently in a workshop for the second time in a week. It only draws 2.2amps(about 480 watts) on first setting and 4.4 amps on high setting, obviously heat is no where near what it should be. On first inspection by workshop unit removed and tested to Truma guidance and claimed all working properly, motorhome returned to me when I promptly returned it to them showing the aforementioned power problems! Works fine on gas. Workshops now going to try replacing heater elements even although their test procedure shows all working fine, I have my doubts. Be interesting to see if any others have had similar problems and resolved them. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 AlanS - 2015-05-19 5:04 PM In mixed mode, if you fail the electric elements by turning them off, the gas will take over and produce heating and hot water. When we are on sites with a low amperage connection, i.e. 6 Amps we often switch the two stages of electric off via a couple of isolating switches we have on our main control panel so that we can make a cup of tea or use the microwave. We have the CP+ panel and it is a pain to switch from mixed mode to gas only each time. When we do turn the electric elements off we get an alarm warning on the CP+ panel which cancels when we switch the supply back on. Alan Alan, seems awfully complicated just to reduce the EHU power going to the heater...say to switch to gas only.... to adjust the power source for the Combi using CP+ is simple! press the button, select power source, turn to gas. no red lights or alarms... as an alternative, why not have mixed mode selected with the electric part set at 900w which would allow for another low power device to be used at the same time....tho not the microwave, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 It is quite easy really as I have two push-button switches on my Sargent EC500 panel for the 2 stages of electric heating - I tried to show my wife how to do it on the CP+ panel but she wasn't keen to learn so that is the way we do it. Anyway the less we play with that LCD panel the better as I don't have much faith in the recent Truma electronics and if that fails we have nothing not like the old days with a rotary switch or two. I am not a 'dinosaur' but when you read the reports about reliability it does concern me. Alan bolero boy - 2015-05-20 8:13 AM AlanS - 2015-05-19 5:04 PM In mixed mode, if you fail the electric elements by turning them off, the gas will take over and produce heating and hot water. When we are on sites with a low amperage connection, i.e. 6 Amps we often switch the two stages of electric off via a couple of isolating switches we have on our main control panel so that we can make a cup of tea or use the microwave. We have the CP+ panel and it is a pain to switch from mixed mode to gas only each time. When we do turn the electric elements off we get an alarm warning on the CP+ panel which cancels when we switch the supply back on. Alan Alan, seems awfully complicated just to reduce the EHU power going to the heater...say to switch to gas only.... to adjust the power source for the Combi using CP+ is simple! press the button, select power source, turn to gas. no red lights or alarms... as an alternative, why not have mixed mode selected with the electric part set at 900w which would allow for another low power device to be used at the same time....tho not the microwave, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graementl Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 An update to the issues with my 4e. Now returned from workshop who were very apologetic and very disappointed with Truma test equipment which appears totally useless and they are taking that up with Truma. The unit needed 1 new element and a PCB. The second element was also distorted so they changed that as a precaution. None of the faults showed on test equipment which indicated all working well! Parts £290, labour £200. All in all it was in the workshop for about 10 days and they spent roughly 10/12 hours on it but mostly on a false trail due to test equipment. End result is that if anything goes faulty with the electric side of the system I will not bother with it and run on gas alone. A very expensive lesson learned. Others beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graementl Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 An update to the issues with my 4e. Now returned from workshop who were very apologetic and very disappointed with Truma test equipment which appears totally useless and they are taking that up with Truma. The unit needed 1 new element and a PCB. The second element was also distorted so they changed that as a precaution. None of the faults showed on test equipment which indicated all working well! Parts £290, labour £200. All in all it was in the workshop for about 10 days and they spent roughly 10/12 hours on it but mostly on a false trail due to test equipment. End result is that if anything goes faulty with the electric side of the system I will not bother with it and run on gas alone. A very expensive lesson learned. Others beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Glad to hear you have got the problem sorted, although at a cost. Your MH is only 4 years old and I bet the heater has not had many running hours over that time, Truma heaters should last longer than that or they are not fit for purpose. Alan graementl - 2015-05-22 7:54 PM An update to the issues with my 4e. Now returned from workshop who were very apologetic and very disappointed with Truma test equipment which appears totally useless and they are taking that up with Truma. The unit needed 1 new element and a PCB. The second element was also distorted so they changed that as a precaution. None of the faults showed on test equipment which indicated all working well! Parts £290, labour £200. All in all it was in the workshop for about 10 days and they spent roughly 10/12 hours on it but mostly on a false trail due to test equipment. End result is that if anything goes faulty with the electric side of the system I will not bother with it and run on gas alone. A very expensive lesson learned. Others beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I have already decided that any future motorhome I buy will not have a Truma heater or hot water system in it. Dislike our unreliable Combi that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 We have taken delivery of our new ih 600s this week, and it has the Truma Combi heating. The above comments make me a bit nervous! I have noticed that there is a flow of warm air into the washroom from the Combi when it is switched on using 240v for water heating only. Also, when left on water heating overnight on 240v, on switching to space heating, the initial flow of air to the washroom was too hot to bare on the hand. Is this to be expected as normal behaviour? The Combi is situated in a locker next to the washroom wall. And also, the flow of hot showering water turned cool much sooner than we expected, compared to the usage in out previous van (Autotrail Tracker 2008). I would appreciate any feedback on this, please. Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 armstrongpiper - 2015-05-23 5:58 AM We have taken delivery of our new ih 600s this week, and it has the Truma Combi heating. The above comments make me a bit nervous! I have noticed that there is a flow of warm air into the washroom from the Combi when it is switched on using 240v for water heating only. Also, when left on water heating overnight on 240v, on switching to space heating, the initial flow of air to the washroom was too hot to bare on the hand. Is this to be expected as normal behaviour? The Combi is situated in a locker next to the washroom wall. And also, the flow of hot showering water turned cool much sooner than we expected, compared to the usage in out previous van (Autotrail Tracker 2008). I would appreciate any feedback on this, please. Neil B firstly, i wouldn't leave the water heater on overnight when it only requires about 20mins to heat the water... i wouldn't expect there to be any perceivable airflow from any of the outlets with the setting on water only... sometimes, when you turn the appliance form water heating, by turning off or (as you have done) turning to heat, the unit has to expel a a lot of very got air from inside the unit, which is what you are feeling.....this is often accompanied by the fan spinning fast and a 'jet engine' whooshing noise....this is all normal in my experience of three of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-05-22 11:09 PM I have already decided that any future motorhome I buy will not have a Truma heater or hot water system in it. Dislike our unreliable Combi that much. why hasn't your dealer got to grips with this for you Ray....it sounds like they should be getting it fully sorted for you. by crossing Truma off your list (along with Fiat??) youre really narrowing your choice when it comes to change..... I'd give the dealer (and Truma, if necessary) some serious grief......and get it sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Neil B I would have thought that when your Combi is in 230V ’summer’ mode (ie. just heating water) - for obvious reasons - the heater should not be producing any ‘forced’ flow of warm air. As your heater is in a locker next to the washroom (and, consequently, there’s a strong chance that the air-trunking from heater to the washroom is pretty short) warm air may just be ‘bleeding' into the washroom even though the heater’s blown-air fan is not running. Assuming that your washroom’s warm-air vent is the round ‘butterfly-valve’ type, you could always close the butterfly-valve to stop the warm air-flow, opening it again when you actually wanted to heat the washroom. An unduly short air-trunk from heater to washroom could also be anticipated to result in an initial burst of very hot air when the heater is switched from water to space heating, as all the hot air within the heater will naturally ‘choose’ to blast down the shortest trunk. So, if your heating system includes one particularly short air-trunk and the other air-trunks are a good deal longer, the “too hot to bear on the hand” behaviour could be considered a normal expectation. Did you have a Combi heater or a Truma C-Series heater in your 2008 Tracker? The capacity of a Combi’s boiler is 10 litres, whereas C-Series appliances had 12 litres. So, in principle, a C-Series should be able to provide more hot water for showering. Plainly, if your Tracker also had a Combi heater (and everything else is equal) you ought to get a similar showering performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamw Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Following Derek's comments it may be useful to check that the installation has been done correctly. With a duct length of less than 2 metres the air outlet must not be installed higher than the warm air duct connection. With a duct length of less than 50 cm, the duct must create a siphon between the connection and the outlet. These measures prevent undesirable heating of the vehicle due to convection (cowl effect) during operation in summer. If you have a copy of the installation instructions they include diagrams which illustrate this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I agree with Chris, why leave it on overnight, as you have a new van I assume it has a CP-Plus controller, why not use the timer, that's what we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 grahamw - 2015-05-23 8:50 AM Following Derek's comments it may be useful to check that the installation has been done correctly. With a duct length of less than 2 metres the air outlet must not be installed higher than the warm air duct connection. With a duct length of less than 50 cm, the duct must create a siphon between the connection and the outlet. These measures prevent undesirable heating of the vehicle due to convection (cowl effect) during operation in summer. If you have a copy of the installation instructions they include diagrams which illustrate this.. Autotrail do not include the fitting instructions with their delivery package, at least they didn't with mine.So difficult to do. And what could we do about it anyway, they (the converters) are supposed to be the proffesionals in these matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahamw Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-05-23 10:00 AM Autotrail do not include the fitting instructions with their delivery package, at least they didn't with mine.So difficult to do. And what could we do about it anyway, they (the converters) are supposed to be the proffesionals in these matters. Where the Combi boiler is sited extremely close to an outlet it's very difficult if not impossible to follow Truma's guidance and one might simply to have to put up with some convection in summer. Autotrail may have done the best that they can but if you view the installation instruction you would be able to make your own judgement. Installation instructions here: http://www.truma.com/uk/en/heating/downloads.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armstrongpiper Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 The heater in the Tracker was not a Combi, but the Truma C. On site, we used to leave the heater on hot water duty all the time without a problem and with constant hot water, so assumed it was OK to do the same with the Combi. I think I understand the possible cause of the warm air flow into the washroom and will close the butterfly outlet unless needed to be open, and also am reassured about the short blast of hot air. Perhaps I'm being a little hasty in worrying about the cooling of the shower water, and should take time in getting to grips with the system's foibles, Thanks for the replies. Neil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolero boy Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 I know Lenny only heats his water to 40 deg for showers, but we use 60 deg and 10 ltrs of hot mixed with say 5litres of cold to get the right temp gives 15litres of good showers.....in our van i get 5 and OH then gets 10! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennyhb Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 bolero boy - 2015-05-24 8:10 AM I know Lenny only heats his water to 40 deg for showers, but we use 60 deg and 10 ltrs of hot mixed with say 5litres of cold to get the right temp gives 15litres of good showers.....in our van i get 5 and OH then gets 10! Had to resort to 60 deg, C6 does not maintain temperature at 40, water is nearly cold before thermostat cuts back in, doesn't happen at 60, the only response you get from dealers is "you are not supposed to run it at 40" so why have a 40 setting. Haven't tried it since having the software upgrade on the CP-Plus,but I can't see that making any differance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 We have the C6 and had the same problem with the hot water stat not cutting back in on 40 setting so have had to run on 60. After only six weeks use it stopped working all together. Got it running on gas in the end one day but even that's stopped now. Error code reading is E6H. Phoned Truma and they say it requires a simple adjustment by the dealer. It's going in on Tuesday to have a bike rack fitted so problem should be fixed then. Had to buy a small fan heater to keep warm as that was all we could get but will be taking a small electric oil filled rad we have at home for the next few trips untill I'm confident the problem has been fixed. Access to the heater in our Warwick XL PVC does not look easy. Previous Truma combines we have had have been fine. I must say I'm a bit concerned. I'll up date you all in a few days time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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