Try to establish the emissions for Austrian GO Box, details not on V5 or CoC

[Dilbertdog]

I have a 2007 Swift Koniki motorhome; we intend to travel through Austria and Slovenia and will require a Go Box for each country. We tried to avoid the Tolls last year but it was a bit stressful and therefore decided to bite on the bullet. (we are 4.2 tonne)

The problem being I do not know how to evidence the engine emissions for submission to the Austrian authorities etc.

The emissions are not listed on my registration document V5

I have the Certificate of Conformity for the motorhome, however the emission section has been left blank. From research with other forums, this was deliberate so the motorhome would be taxed as a HPGV ( I believe this is the correct abbreviation), had the emissions been indicated on the certificate there are problems with its tax group.

The problem I now have is that I have no information to send to the Austrian authorities showing my motorhome engine in a Euro 4 compliant other than the V5 with the date of registration.

I have considered the emissions recorded on my current MOT certificate; however I am uncertain how to interpret these, and will they be satisfactory.

Anyone in the same position or ideas welcomed.

 

[Deneb]

Google is often a good first port of call!

 

A few seconds of perusing the results leads to a previous thread on this forum:

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Anyone-been-there-done-it-Proof-of-Euro-Emissions-for-Go-Box/48873/

 

In particular:

 

To verify the Euro emission category of your vehicle, you will need:

•our application form

•a copy of the vehicle registration certificate

•if the emission category is not stated in the vehicle registration certificate: a copy of the CEMT certificate or the COP/COC manufacturer’s certificate.

 

(see KevandAli's post in the above thread).

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

To understand this post correctly Deneb on behalf of some Belgium friends whit a longer than 5 year working permit. In the Uk working And having caravans and motorhomes. What means: CEMT, COP in your context?

[Deneb]

CEMT is a goods vehicle permit permitting freight transport between member counties of the Conférence Européenne des Ministres des Transports. It is obviously not applicable to a motorhome, but where required should state the Euro category of the vehicle for which it has been issued.

 

COP is a Certificate of Production which I believe is another term for a Certificate of Conformity used in some countries. It confirms that the vehicle has been manufactured to the same standard as the model submitted for type approval.

 

The Austrian authorities are basically asking for a COC or similar legal document as proof of the vehicle's Euro standard in the event that it is not stated on the registration document.

[Robinhood]

The build date of your vehicle (2007) pre-dates any of the issues around taxation class,etc. so that isn't the core reason why there is restricted emissions data on the Coc. (it's simply that, having been converted, no valid/relevant emissions data is then available).

 

In reality, there should be a CoC for each stage of conversion, which in your case should mean 2 or 3 (probably the latter) one issued by Fiat (one issued by AlKo) and one issued by Swift.

 

Any emissions data quoted on any one of these should be sufficient, as long as the document can be copied to show both the data and the VIN (which should be on all CoCs) together.

 

You don't necessarily need an emissions figure, if an emissions category is quoted (Euro IV in your case) that will do.

 

On my three CoCs, the Fiat one declares the Euro N classification and the emissions figures, the AlKo one is silent on all counts, and the converters one delclare's the Euro N category, (sufficient for Go Box purposes should I need one) but refers back to the Fiat CoC for specific figures.

 

Do you have a CoC for each stage?

[Dilbertdog]

Hi

Thanks for all the information and help, the bottom line is, I have the certicate of conformity from Swift confirming the vehicle. Confirms etc, however the emission section is blank. I do not have any other certificate of conformity either from Fiat or Al-Ko.

I only need to establish the vehicle emissions to prove the engine conforms to the Euro 4 category.. Without this if I do not prove the category, my understanding is the Austrian and what ever EU country wanting to implement the use of electronic GoBox or similar devices will say that without evidence to the contrary it will be classed as an expensive Euro 1 category.

Interestingly I have applied to both the French And German authorities for emissions stickers in light of new restrictions to Paris etc and they seemed happy with just the V5 with no emission information and sent out the two stickers no problem.

Ever feel you are going round in circles.......or is it the case that 2007 - 2008 fall within the gap of no requirement for emissions and the new rules bought in.

Where to go next

[Dilbertdog]

Before anyone makes the comment, although the consumption of alcohol is very common past time in Swifty our Motorhome, we do not require or want a certificate of alcohol... I miss typed certificate from Alco chassis........

[Deneb]

You need to contact Fiat UK and ask for a COC for the base vehicle. That should satisfy the Austrian authorities. France and Germany also want to see evidence for domestic vehicles I believe, but in the case of foreign registered vehicles, such as the UK, if the Euro classification isn't on the registration document they make an assumption based on the date of registration. This can be advantageous to some motorhomes as they can be classed in a newer category for the emissions permits if they were built to the preceding standard but not registered for some time.

[Derek Uzzell]

Dilbertdog - 2019-01-30 12:25 PM

 

...Ever feel you are going round in circles.......or is it the case that 2007 - 2008 fall within the gap of no requirement for emissions and the new rules bought in...

 

A system of ‘road tax’ based on a new vehicle’s CO2 emissions was introduced in the UK on 1 March 2001 and could have been applied to motor caravans at that point. However, the DVLA chose to stay with the UK’s historic arrangement for motor caravans and, until 31 July 2013, continued to categorise them according to their gross weight.

 

From 1 August 2013 new motor caravans became eligible to be classed for ‘road tax’ based on CO2 data on the vehicle’s final-stage Certificate of Conformity (CoC) as explained on the following link

 

https://www.thencc.org.uk/news_press/news_detail.aspx?NewsID=269

 

The final-stage CoC of the majority of new Type Approved motor caravans sold in the UK will not carry a CO2 value and some may not have a CO2 value on any of their CoCs. I’m not sure what the situation is for ‘3-stage’ motor caravans that start life as just a cab (or cowl), have a AL-KO chassis added as Stage 2, followed by a conversion stage (Stage 3). Will the CoC for a cab/cowl unit carry a CO2 or ‘Euro’ value?

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Deneb in a Nutshell : A COP is not a certificate as a COC. It is given to builders who can produce a COC like a motorhome builder and whatever. And now cames the clue. COP certificate holders can change the birth certificate , not your motorhome builder is interested, but the retrofit market. In belgium always in case of air suspension and weight increase, In germany not, and Uk Not. COP is conformity of product. It is given by the national in a national approval certificate. So who in the uk can change your COC?

[Derek Uzzell]

Conformity of Production is explained on this UK VCA webpage

 

https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/conformity-of-production/conformity-of-production.asp

 

but COP will have no relevance to Dilbertdog’s requirement to acquire CO2 emissions data for his 2007 Swift Kon-Tiki motorhome so that he can obtain the ‘best’ GO-Box.

 

As I’ve mooted above, even if Fiat provides a Certificate of Conformity (CoC) for the Ducato that the Kon-Tiki was originally built on, there’s the possibility that the CoC will not carry a CO2 datum. My 2015 Ducato/Rapido has Fiat and Rapido CoCs. Both CoCs indicate that the vehicle is Euro 5 compliant, but neither CoC carries a CO2 value.

 

It is possible to buy an ‘independent’ CoC

 

https://www.dvlaadvice.co.uk/mobile/about.html

 

but I’ve no idea if doing so would help with the GO-Box issue.

 

As Deneb has advised, contacting Fiat UK should be the first step.

[Brian Kirby]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-01-30 2:32 PM...……………….. I’m not sure what the situation is for ‘3-stage’ motor caravans that start life as just a cab (or cowl), have a AL-KO chassis added as Stage 2, followed by a conversion stage (Stage 3). Will the CoC for a cab/cowl unit carry a CO2 or ‘Euro’ value?

On Fiat's CoC for our 2013 Hymer Exsis, the exhaust emissions level is stated to be "EURO 5", and the full set of emissions data is given. This was for the cowl.

 

The AlKo CoC is "silent" on emissions, as might be expected.

 

The Hymer CoC reiterates that the vehicle engine is EURO 5, but in respect of CO2 cites regulation 2007/46, which it says deletes the requirement. However, whether this remains the case I do not know, as the quoted directive has been amended several time since 2013, the last being in 2018.

 

Also, because the reference to the directive is in German, and the reference itself is in the form of two abbreviations that Google Translate can't unravel, I have been unable to see exactly what it is that was deleted. However, the upshot is that on the Hymer CoC, no CO2 figure is given.

 

Just to be clear, the vehicle was a direct LHD import from Germany, so the whole Hymer CoC is in German.

 

I do not know whether more recent A Class motorhome CoCs follow this pattern. It seems reasonable that they would, since the Hymer had the aerodynamics of a barn door, which would in any case have negated emissions data relevant to a panel van!

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Derek. The EC rule 715/2007*195/2013M is applicable here. It is on your fiat not ready to drive. And on your rapido ready to drive. Phase 1 and 2 should show emission data like euro 5 or 6. And of course they are not the Same. It is the final count down what matters for the GO-Box issue Who framed Roger Rabbit Here?

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Brian Co2 is not given in phases 1 and two. and why is is given by a statement on phase 2. Volkswagen is now expert in this.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Only the euro classification matters on the Coc. Not data of emissionfigures. And LEZ zones for cities. Sorry for the row on this.

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-31 5:01 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2019-01-30 2:32 PM...……………….. I’m not sure what the situation is for ‘3-stage’ motor caravans that start life as just a cab (or cowl), have a AL-KO chassis added as Stage 2, followed by a conversion stage (Stage 3). Will the CoC for a cab/cowl unit carry a CO2 or ‘Euro’ value?

On Fiat's CoC for our 2013 Hymer Exsis, the exhaust emissions level is stated to be "EURO 5", and the full set of emissions data is given. This was for the cowl.

 

The critical issue is whether or not the Fiat CoC for the Ducato cab-unit that formed the basis of Dilbertdog’s 2007 Swift Kon-Tiki motorhome will carry a CO2 emissions value or a ‘Euro 4 compliant’ number that will allow him to get the appropriate GO-box.

 

I vaguely remember it being said that Fiat wil not provide a duplicate CoC free of charge, but the only way to a) check that’s so and b) confirm what information is on the CoC, will be to contact Fiat and then obtain the CoC document. What happens now regarding motorhome CoC data, or has happened in recent years, may not have happened 12 years ago.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

The C02, not Co is tax related per country in the EU. The GO box above to euro classification when you book for the vignette. That means for a motor-home to prove on the road a COC that classification.And that is the base vehicle. And the chassis number. In two places. I warn you if you are above 3.5 tonnes the fines are huge. If your final stage plate does not comply whit your driving licence.

[Brian Kirby]

Dilbertdog - 2019-01-30 12:25 PM

 

Hi

Thanks for all the information and help, the bottom line is, I have the certicate of conformity from Swift confirming the vehicle. Confirms etc, however the emission section is blank. I do not have any other certificate of conformity either from Fiat or Al-Ko.

I only need to establish the vehicle emissions to prove the engine conforms to the Euro 4 category.. Without this if I do not prove the category, my understanding is the Austrian and what ever EU country wanting to implement the use of electronic GoBox or similar devices will say that without evidence to the contrary it will be classed as an expensive Euro 1 category.

Interestingly I have applied to both the French And German authorities for emissions stickers in light of new restrictions to Paris etc and they seemed happy with just the V5 with no emission information and sent out the two stickers no problem.

Ever feel you are going round in circles.......or is it the case that 2007 - 2008 fall within the gap of no requirement for emissions and the new rules bought in.

Where to go next

have you considered contacting Swift? When the chassis was delivered to them it should have been supplied with the Fiat CoC. As you have the Swift CoC, the data on that will have been lifted from the Fiat CoC. Swifts QA procedure should mean they keep a record of the vehicle documentation, so I wonder if they may still have the Fiat CoC, in which case they might send you the original and retain a file copy, or send you a copy, if you explain why you need it. Any use?

[Derek Uzzell]

Obviously it’s worth checking with Swift Group if they can provide a the Fiat CoC for the 2007 Kon-Tiki, but Fiat(UK) should be the first port of call.

 

This 2010 thread

 

https://www.frenchentree.com/france-forum/topic/importing-a-motorhome-certificate-of-conformity-request/

 

discussed obtaining CoCs for a 2003 Auto-Trail motorhome that was to be imported to France and, although the original posting stated "Fiat UK couldn’t provide us with a Certificate of Conformity...”, the follow-up said “...AL-KO can provide me with a certificate for the adaptation of the chassis and Fiat UK are going to give me a UK Certificate”.

 

“...Fiat UK are going to give me a UK Certificate” suggests that, in 2010, there would have been no charge for providing the CoC, but that’s something Dilbertdog would need to confirm.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Al-Ko is not involved whatever in every document for the entering Austria. Because of climate control they tax every gram of co2. Like to buy a hydrogen-electric car. Tax ZERO. Only AL- KO comes up for motor homes whit a hybrid Semi. But our motor homes are not like a truck every day.