Bulletguy Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Further to the recent threads over the abysmal lack of parking facilities for motorhomes in UK here is a link to a petition. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/105748 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 It is a shame that the petition's originator did not take the time or trouble to get his facts and spelling correct before starting the petition. I've signed it anyway - not that it will make any difference in our lifetime. If enough signatures are added to reach10,000 and there is a Government response, it will no doubt be as before, passing the buck firmly back to local authorities by saying that they already have the powers to create Aires / Stellplatz etc and that it is not Government policy to compel local authorities in such matters as to do so could be seen as undemocratic given that most voters do not own a motorhome, or some such similar waffle ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 21, 2015 Author Share Posted November 21, 2015 Tracker - 2015-11-21 10:07 PM It is a shame that the petition's originator did not take the time or trouble to get his facts and spelling correct before starting the petition. LOL yes next time in Germany i will have to look out for one of those Stellenplatz things. Maybe it's a delicacy i've not yet tried or local beer! :D I've signed it anyway - not that it will make any difference in our lifetime. If enough signatures are added to reach10,000 and there is a Government response, it will no doubt be as before, passing the buck firmly back to local authorities by saying that they already have the powers to create Aires / Stellplatz etc and that it is not Government policy to compel local authorities in such matters as to do so could be seen as undemocratic given that most voters do not own a motorhome, or some such similar waffle ! Afraid so and the local authorities will simply say, "no.....we make lots of lovely money from parking fines and the Mayor owns a few campsites". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Cynicism is the new reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Tracker - 2015-11-22 12:50 PM Cynicism is the new reality! As is my optimism. I see almost 160 have viewed this post but nobody else has mentioned they've signed it. :-( Signing should be compulsory. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Bulletguy - 2015-11-22 4:57 PM Tracker - 2015-11-22 12:50 PM Cynicism is the new reality! As is my optimism. I see almost 160 have viewed this post but nobody else has mentioned they've signed it. :-( Signing should be compulsory. (lol) Perhaps everybody else on here prefers to stay overnight rounded up all together like wagon trains in safe compounds - aka campsites !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 My response to this petition has been consistent. Why would any elected councillor spend money on out of town motorhomers when their local budgets are being slashed? Even if there is a robust business case that clearly demonstrates Aires generate significant income for the local community, there is little funding available for anything but basic core services. As a motorhomer, I would welcome Aires up and down the UK. As a motorhomer in these days of tight financial control, I am embarrassed that some motorhomers are out of touch with current reality. I'd prefer the potholes are repaired. I suggest everyone who signs gets together and builds a robust business case and funding plan for one local authority and when that gets passed and implemented, try for a second and then a third etc. That's how the commercial world does it. Prove the concept works and then roll out to other areas. Sorry Bulletguy, I don't mean to shoot the messenger - nor make a pun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Tracker - 2015-11-22 5:21 PM Bulletguy - 2015-11-22 4:57 PM Tracker - 2015-11-22 12:50 PM Cynicism is the new reality! As is my optimism. I see almost 160 have viewed this post but nobody else has mentioned they've signed it. :-( Signing should be compulsory. (lol) Perhaps everybody else on here prefers to stay overnight rounded up all together like wagon trains in safe compounds - aka campsites !! Not quite Tracker, I had already signed the petition but have a different view as to why Aires will fail in this country. Some years ago after four years of negotiating with my own local authority in North Yorkshire we finally had Motorhome parking in the town of Guisborough. It lasted just one year before the legal parking orders (that had to be rewritten to specifically allow overnight parking before the proposal could go ahead) were reversed and the privilege removed due to lack of used by Motorhomes. I still disagree with the decision as once the facility was created the initial costs and obstacles had been dealt with and continuing the facility would not have required the local authority to take any further action or spend any more money as the aire was simply overnight parking with no waster/water facilities. However, the local authority opposition group found it an opportunity to get one over on the Cabinet and it was a purely political issue to close it. That said, it only came about as a result of lack of use by Motorhomes. I wish any attempt, by anyone, to improve Motorhome daytime/overnight parking in this country well but am not that optimistic they will succeed. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike88 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 My local Council established two trial Aires within a mile of where I live which were well used but sadly abused by the motorhome fraternity. Some ignored the 48hr limit, some stayed for weeks on end, and many disrespected the environment to the point where the Council had to consider employing someone to patrol the area and to deal with the mess. This behaviour is not that unusual as I've seen motorohomers in France and Spain create similar problems leading to excessive charging and the closure of some Aires and known parking spots. Eventually, both of my local trial Aires were occupied by travellers who left an appalling mess and the other was occupied by a hippie camp. Predictably the trial will not be repeated. The aim of the Council was to increase business in the town and to promote tourism. But the end result was spending a fortune at taxpayers expense clearing up the mess. Why would cash strapped Councils bother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 david lloyd - 2015-11-22 6:10 PM Tracker - 2015-11-22 5:21 PM Bulletguy - 2015-11-22 4:57 PM Tracker - 2015-11-22 12:50 PM Cynicism is the new reality! As is my optimism. I see almost 160 have viewed this post but nobody else has mentioned they've signed it. :-( Signing should be compulsory. (lol) Perhaps everybody else on here prefers to stay overnight rounded up all together like wagon trains in safe compounds - aka campsites !! Not quite Tracker, I had already signed the petition but have a different view as to why Aires will fail in this country. Some years ago after four years of negotiating with my own local authority in North Yorkshire we finally had Motorhome parking in the town of Guisborough. It lasted just one year before the legal parking orders (that had to be rewritten to specifically allow overnight parking before the proposal could go ahead) were reversed and the privilege removed due to lack of used by Motorhomes. I still disagree with the decision as once the facility was created the initial costs and obstacles had been dealt with and continuing the facility would not have required the local authority to take any further action or spend any more money as the aire was simply overnight parking with no waster/water facilities. However, the local authority opposition group found it an opportunity to get one over on the Cabinet and it was a purely political issue to close it. That said, it only came about as a result of lack of use by Motorhomes. I wish any attempt, by anyone, to improve Motorhome daytime/overnight parking in this country well but am not that optimistic they will succeed. David The parking you referred to David was abysmal ! They didn't creat it , you were expected to park crammed in with buses/ cars beside the main road as a local myself ! Well just 5 miles away I wouldn't have parked there if you had paid me! A lovely place like Guisborough they could have made spaces down by Iceland and Aldi , no imagination that is what is lacking in Langbrugh they didn't see that the local businesses had a lot to gain. Have you seen the Motorhome parking at Redcar ? Is lovely overlooking the sea and both Marske and Redcar are benefitting from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Yes, but is it legal - and how long will it be before those amongst us abuse what has, so far, been tolerated before local,people begin to object and, as mike88 describes above, the facility is taken away. Sadly, it does occur overseas too and now there are many Aires that are closed , restricted or have quite high fees. The Guisborough aire was not the best place but the best on offer owned by the council at the time. We tend to go on about the council but actually it would probably be more productive to pursue such facilities with private landlords.bof course the difficulty then would be planning consent from.....the council. Yes, I accept the Guisborough aire was not the perfect spot but throughout the consultations the continuing thread was that a successful trial there would lead to more being opened in places like Redcar, Saltburn etc giving a chain of Aires that visitors could use to make a week of it. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Brock - 2015-11-22 5:25 PM My response to this petition has been consistent. Why would any elected councillor spend money on out of town motorhomers when their local budgets are being slashed? Even if there is a robust business case that clearly demonstrates Aires generate significant income for the local community, there is little funding available for anything but basic core services. As a motorhomer, I would welcome Aires up and down the UK. As a motorhomer in these days of tight financial control, I am embarrassed that some motorhomers are out of touch with current reality. I'd prefer the potholes are repaired. I suggest everyone who signs gets together and builds a robust business case and funding plan for one local authority and when that gets passed and implemented, try for a second and then a third etc. That's how the commercial world does it. Prove the concept works and then roll out to other areas. . Absolutely right. A solid business case and a bit of persuasion might get somewhere. ( though I doubt it ).. This poorly drafted effort " compelling " councils to provide aires is bound to fail. ( I'm quite sure that forum members who support compulsion would resist anyone telling THEM what they must do ) ....but, looking on the bright side, if every council IS compelled to provide an aire, we could end up with more aires than motorhomes. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Unfortunately we never did get around to visiting the lovely town of Guisborough but I do remember well Davids success at getting the Aire established and it was, but is no longer, on our 'to do' list as a town deserving of our support. We did visit both the Teignmouth and the Dawlish parking and were also disgusted by the abuse that we saw. Perhaps if the coucil had been a bit more proactive in removing and / or fining those responsible for the abuse in the early days the facility might still be available? We also see the abuse that goes on in France but somehow the French seem better able to cope with it than are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 david lloyd - 2015-11-22 6:10 PM Some years ago after four years of negotiating with my own local authority in North Yorkshire we finally had Motorhome parking in the town of Guisborough. It lasted just one year before the legal parking orders (that had to be rewritten to specifically allow overnight parking before the proposal could go ahead) were reversed and the privilege removed due to lack of use by Motorhomes. What were the actual reasons for 'lack of use'? How many motorhomes could it facilitate? Where was it sited? Mike88 - 2015-11-22 6:47 PM My local Council established two trial Aires within a mile of where I live which were well used but sadly abused by the motorhome fraternity. Some ignored the 48hr limit, some stayed for weeks on end...... I question the reasoning over any limit. All the Aires/Stellplatz sites i've stopped on don't have any at all. The one i use on leaving the Ferry at Dunkerque and also on return, varies from being packed to just a few. In fact when i arrived there earlier this year i was amazed to find it completely empty! Before i left a couple of vans turned up but there is enough room for 30-40 vans. ......and many disrespected the environment to the point where the Council had to consider employing someone to patrol the area and to deal with the mess. So that's created a job employing someone who now earns a wage rather than sitting on their a*se living off the State. Excellent! This behaviour is not that unusual as I've seen motorohomers in France and Spain create similar problems leading to excessive charging and the closure of some Aires and known parking spots. I've never experienced this at all and would say 99.9% of motorhome people behave in a mature and responsible manner. Eventually, both of my local trial Aires were occupied by travellers who left an appalling mess and the other was occupied by a hippie camp. Predictably the trial will not be repeated. We do have traveller issues in the UK with being so close to Ireland where most come from. The aim of the Council was to increase business in the town and to promote tourism. But the end result was spending a fortune at taxpayers expense clearing up the mess. We've never really been very good at promoting business as we tend to see it as a service which everyone should attend......but if we can find ways of making money from you doing that (cue parking meters etc) then we will do. The tiny little 'aire' (room for about 8 vans at a max) at Cruden Bay harbour i recently stayed on is an example of an authority who are at least trying. It's controlled and funded by Port Eroll Harbour Authority and i emailed them congratulating their efforts with the suggestion they list phone numbers of the four businesses in Cruden on the 'aire' notice board. Why would cash strapped Councils bother? The reasons above should be enough. Many town centres are already in decline so why make matters worse by chasing potential custom away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I wonder how much money motorhomers do spend in local businesses as opposed to the local branches of national chains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Muswell - 2015-11-22 9:50 PM I wonder how much money motorhomers do spend in local businesses as opposed to the local branches of national chains? There is only one way to find out. I spent money at each of these businesses when i stopped at Cruden Bay. Shop http://oi64.tinypic.com/oguna.jpg Pub http://oi63.tinypic.com/se9eo8.jpg (i walked there Chinese http://oi64.tinypic.com/2hxrjt2.jpg (brilliant chicken curry!) Hotel http://oi68.tinypic.com/33lo55u.jpg (excellent meals at sensible prices) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 E-Petitions, eh...Hmmmm? "Compel councils to provide Aires within their towns for the use of Motorhomes" - 3,118 signatures "Make the production, sale and use of cannabis legal" - 230,393 signatures So, seeing as "the people have spoken", presumably this'd mean that "councils" should be providing Amsterdam-style "coffee shops" then.... (lol) https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions?state=all It'd been put forward on these boards a long time back (by Crinklystarfish), that it is this lot that should be approached, as it is their job/role https://www.visitbritain.org/ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Who the hell cares, we have a way of doing things and most euro countries do to. I never hear this stuff about say Switzerland, Austria, Croatia etc where aires are non existent. The UK has a massive range of campsites from cl's up to very expensive private sites. The real problem is not places to stay but people who are to hard up or to mean to use them, I doubt many motor home users are that hard up so just unzip your wallets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 23, 2015 Author Share Posted November 23, 2015 pepe63 - 2015-11-23 9:29 AM E-Petitions, eh...Hmmmm? "Compel councils to provide Aires within their towns for the use of Motorhomes" - 3,118 signatures "Make the production, sale and use of cannabis legal" - 230,393 signatures Obviously not many pot smoking motorhomers! :D rupert123 - 2015-11-23 2:29 PM Who the hell cares, we have a way of doing things and most euro countries do to. I never hear this stuff about say Switzerland, Austria, Croatia etc where aires are non existent. The UK has a massive range of campsites from cl's up to very expensive private sites. Ah yes Switzerland, the country which holds referendums on virtually everything and anything ensuring their citizens really do get what they ask for.....rather than 'U turn' politicians the minute they secure that comfy well paid job. The real problem is not places to stay but people who are to hard up or to mean to use them, I doubt many motor home users are that hard up so just unzip your wallets. People need to get away from using this old chestnut though i appreciate it's extremely difficult for a nation of hair shirt proletarians who've been brow beaten into unswerving subservience to stuffing machines with money for the 'privilege' of parking a vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outlandish Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Just signed the Petition for Aires please consider doing the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 . 'People need to get away from using this old chestnut though i appreciate it's extremely difficult for a nation of hair shirt proletarians who've been brow beaten into unswerving subservience to stuffing machines with money for the 'privilege' of parking a vehicle'. Ah, but we are not talking about parking are we. This is about 'free loading' motorhomes parking outside peoples houses, putting out their chairs, tables, awnings etc. Causing a real nuisance for locals and visitors alike. Still as long as it is free and you can keep your wallet firmly zipped all is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagHal Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I've signed but inclined to agree with Tracker. It's a forlorn hope. The better alternative is to develop the network of places that will permit motorhome overnighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Brock - 2015-11-22 5:25 PM My response to this petition has been consistent. Why would any elected councillor spend money on out of town motorhomers when their local budgets are being slashed? Even if there is a robust business case that clearly demonstrates Aires generate significant income for the local community, there is little funding available for anything but basic core services. As a motorhomer, I would welcome Aires up and down the UK. As a motorhomer in these days of tight financial control, I am embarrassed that some motorhomers are out of touch with current reality. I'd prefer the potholes are repaired. I suggest everyone who signs gets together and builds a robust business case and funding plan for one local authority and when that gets passed and implemented, try for a second and then a third etc. That's how the commercial world does it. Prove the concept works and then roll out to other areas. Sorry Bulletguy, I don't mean to shoot the messenger - nor make a pun. Agree with your sentiment Brock, but surely the Business case has ALREADY been proven, hence all the Aires and Stellplatz over the Channel. I have signed the Petition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 rupert123 - 2015-11-24 10:15 AM . 'People need to get away from using this old chestnut though i appreciate it's extremely difficult for a nation of hair shirt proletarians who've been brow beaten into unswerving subservience to stuffing machines with money for the 'privilege' of parking a vehicle'. Ah, but we are not talking about parking are we. This is about 'free loading' motorhomes parking outside peoples houses, putting out their chairs, tables, awnings etc. Causing a real nuisance for locals and visitors alike. Still as long as it is free and you can keep your wallet firmly zipped all is ok. . Hopefully any Aire would NOT be outside anyone's front windows. AND it is not about cost (for most anyway, as in many cases their motorhome cost them a small fortune !) It's about freedom to travel and stop as required without having to book up months in advance, ask CC members (of which I am one) a mad rush to book up sites months and months in advance. NOT exactly 'Freedom to roam' is it Henry ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Rayjsj - 2015-11-24 11:07 AM Agree with your sentiment Brock, but surely the Business case has ALREADY been proven, hence all the Aires and Stellplatz over the Channel. I have signed the Petition. The same ' business case proven on the continent ' could equally apply to municipal campsites - so why not COMPEL all councils to provide those as well ? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.