Uprating Bailey 665

[5nowball]

I'm thinking of getting the Bailey 665, which is built on a Peugeot Boxer 2.3l. GVW is 3500 which gives a payload of about 500kg. I'm concerned that that might not be enough if later I want to stick a couple of bikes on the back. Does anyone know if it's possible to uprate it?

[silverback]

could be possible try these guys, did it myself a few years ago for £200 click on link

 

http://www.svtech.co.uk/

 

 

Jonathan

[Robbo]

A couple of ordinary bikes (not ebikes) plus bike rack would probably add an extra vertical load of 50Kg.

 

Depending on the rear overhang and wheelbase of the vehicle, this will determine the extra load on the rear axle. Possibly an extra 75Kg on the rear axle as an estimate.

 

If you can supply the wheelbase and rear overhang to the centre of the bike rack, a simple calculation can determine the extra load on the rear axle.

[Derek Uzzell]

Details of the 665 model can be found here

 

http://www.baileyofbristol.co.uk/images/downloads/MH%20Brochure%20-%20v2.1.1.pdf

 

and there’s a video-clip here

 

 

The rear overhang is relatively short so carrying two pedal-cycles on the back should not present any problem.

 

The 665 is built on an Al-Ko chassis, which could well complicate uprating and elevate the cost considerably if modifications to the rear suspension (eg. fitting air-assist bellows) were needed.

 

As Jonathan has said, SVTech should be able to advise. Me, I’d also ask Bailey’s opinion.

 

[Steve928]

To the best of my knowledge every Bailey model is built on the same chassis (albeit with different wheelbases) with the front axle rated at 1850Kg and the rear axle rated at 2000kg.

 

It is therefore a paper exercise to uprate any of the 3500Kg models to 3850Kg. If you do go ahead with your purchase then I would suggest that you ask your dealer to supply and register it at the MAM that you desire, rather than using an agency like SVTech post-purchase.

 

When we bought our 740 we enquired about a MAM upgrade to 3850Kg and the dealer would have happily registered it at the higher weight for no additional charge.

 

[Brian Kirby]

5nowball - 2016-03-10 10:04 PM

 

I'm thinking of getting the Bailey 665, which is built on a Peugeot Boxer 2.3l. GVW is 3500 which gives a payload of about 500kg. I'm concerned that that might not be enough if later I want to stick a couple of bikes on the back. Does anyone know if it's possible to uprate it?

According to the brochure linked by Derek there is a cost option to uprate the chassis on certain models (unstated). The only advice given is to contact your "supplying retailer": there is no mention of the cost, or what MAM (GVW or MTPLM) or axle loads would result. Bailey seem a bit coy in the technical department, which would put on amber lights for me.

 

The van is sold as a six berth and, as such, the basic payload of just over 500kg is very lean. Even if only used by two people, if considering longer trips, I would say it will be tight at 3,500kg. Bear in mind that this is the payload for the basic version, with no awning, bike rack, satellite dish, or the optional Premium pack (the weight of which I could not find, but includes cab air conditioning). Also, be aware that the MRO of 2,962kg is calculated with only 20 litres of water on board.

 

Bailey do not state how they have arrived at their MRO in that brochure. It would be worth finding out whether it is with one gas cylinder on board, or two, and whether the contents have been taken at 90% full or 100% full, and ditto the diesel fuel tank. I assume the driver is included at a nominal 75kg, and no passenger is allowed for. You may therefore need to make some adjustments to the stated MRO for real world conditions in your own case.

 

If available, I would suggest it would be worth considering upgrading the engine to 150ps on a van of this size, but it will also add some weight.

 

With a 7.0M long van I would be inclined to go for the optional upgrade above 3,500kg because, although the rear overhang is not that great, and there is not apparently that much rear storage, the overhang is still substantial, and the 2,000kg rear axle limit would, as Derek says, be likely to be costly to uprate post purchase.

 

The following is relevant to X250 models, and may not be correct for the X290, on which a new Bailey 665 would be based. However, I would expect similar caveats to apply.

 

Bailey may upgrade the chassis to the "heavy" version, giving a MAM of 3,850kg with axle loads at 2,100kg front and 2,400kg rear. If this is what is offered, it would be good.

 

However, it is possible they would merely uprate the MAM on the "light" chassis, in which case the axle loads would not be increased above the standard 1,850kg front and 2,000kg rear. This should work reasonably well whether plated at 3,700kg MAM or 3,850kg MAM (both of which are recognised by AlKo), but don't expect to be able to actually load your van to 3,850kg if this is what is offered.

 

This type of uprating, where the axle loads are not enhanced, is a bit of an illusion. Motorhomes almost invariably run out of axle load before they reach their MAM. So, if the axle loads remain the same the van will hit the same limit, on the same axle, whatever MAM is stated. It will be fine above 3,500kg, but how much above can only be determined by trial and error.

 

I'm not saying it won't work, but I am suggesting you would be well advised to explore exactly what it is that Bailey are offering - always assuming the offer is applicable to the 665.

[Steve928]

Brian Kirby - 2016-03-11 6:30 PM

 

Bailey do not state how they have arrived at their MRO in that brochure.

 

Bailey may upgrade the chassis to the "heavy" version, giving a MAM of 3,850kg with axle loads at 2,100kg front and 2,400kg rear. If this is what is offered, it would be good.

 

For Bailey's definition of MIRO see the image below.

 

I really don't think that an upgrade to the heavy chassis is even a remote possibility. Bailey's business model is based upon a standard specification; to my knowledge the sole option ever offered to buyers is a choice of two upholstery patterns - and even then it's not really an option, they just build vans using two different upholstery materials and you take your pick.

[Brian Kirby]

Two things that caught my eye in the Bailey brochure in Derek's link, Steve. They are a footnote to the Technical Specification on page 14.

 

"Note: It is possible to upgrade the MTPLM on certain models. Please contact your supplying retailer for more information on this cost option."

 

"The MRO is calculated with the fresh water tank containing 20 litres of water. If you travel with more water than this in the tank then the User Payload will reduce accordingly."

 

Did that excellent definition of MRO come from an owner's handbook, by any chance? If so, it would be interesting to see if it has changed for the 2016 model range, as the brochure statement above is clear enough on the fresh water content.

[Steve928]

Yes, Brian, that MiRO definition is from the Autograph owner's handbook. It's interesting to note that the footnote to which you refer only appears on the Advance model technical specification in the brochure and not on that for the Autograph range, so it would appear that Bailey are indeed using a different MiRO calculation for the newer Advance range in which the OP is interested.