Varta battery ; top up; vents

[tonyishuk]

I am about to replace the original batteries in the 2009 X250 Fiat Motorhome, each having a worthwhile ten years abuse.

 

The Banner battery , I understand as it has removable cell caps for checking electrolytes and vent tube for gassing. The battery size restricted my choice, and the original Banner still has life left after ten years, so I chose the same again.

 

The Varta battery has neither, the cell caps are sealed with a plastic covering, and there are two transit plugs removed after delivery.

 

I assume that the Varta is (supposedly) maintenance free, but having a couple of vent holes in the battery worries me a little.

 

Should the battery have vent tubes to the outside?

 

The original vehicle battery lived ten years with no vent tubes, seemed to have caused no problems, but does not mean to say that they should not have been fitted originally.

 

Rgds

 

 

[Muswell]

The Varta instructions say that one of the vents should be left open. II didn't fancy having hydrogen floating around so fitted the vent tube and ran it through a hole in the floor.

[colin]

For some reason I can't recall instead of ordering online I phoned Alpha to order my batteries and they asked me if I needed a vent kit, don't know if it's an option online.

p.s. Allen posted that the Varta LFD's where less likely to vent than my old Banner AGM, but I'm not so sure now.

[tonyishuk]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I suppose it raises the question “ Who has looked at the Fiat X250 battery installation and seen a battery’s vent tube ?”

 

That said, I have not seen any reports of exploding Fiat foot wells !

 

Rgds

 

[colin]

tonyishuk - 2020-07-11 9:00 PM

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

I suppose it raises the question “ Who has looked at the Fiat X250 battery installation and seen a battery’s vent tube ?”

 

That said, I have not seen any reports of exploding Fiat foot wells !

 

Rgds

 

If you are talking of the vehicle battery, then the battery box is 'vented'.

[Alanb]

tonyishuk - 2020-07-11 9:00 PM

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

I suppose it raises the question “ Who has looked at the Fiat X250 battery installation and seen a battery’s vent tube ?”

 

That said, I have not seen any reports of exploding Fiat foot wells !

 

Rgds

 

I am not sure that your comparison is valid. The starter and habitation batteries operate under very different regimes.

 

However if you have vent tubes already fitted, why not retain them?

 

I do not understand why the available space restricts you to Banner batteries. One consideration for my most recent replacement about 4 years ago was the ability to top up. I have been doing that at least once a year with the chosen Banner FLA batteries. Varta LFD75 would be a drop in replacement for my PVC, but at next change the longer and taller Exide ER450 (95Ah) dual purpose batteries would make maximum use of the available space.

[Derek Uzzell]

tonyishuk - 2020-07-11 9:00 PM

 

Thanks for the replies.

 

I suppose it raises the question “ Who has looked at the Fiat X250 battery installation and seen a battery’s vent tube ?”

 

That said, I have not seen any reports of exploding Fiat foot wells !

 

Rgds

 

Tony

 

The starter-battery fitted to 2006-onwards Citroen Relay/Fiat Ducato/Peugeot Boxer vehicles is housed in a compartment in the left (UK nearside) footwell of the cab. The original-equipment (OE) battery is normally a FIAMM-branded, wet-acid ‘maintainable’ type with removable cell-caps that allow the electrolyte-level to be checked and topped up if necessary. Like the majority of wet-acid batteries a vent-tube would (should) be fitted to this battery and I’m pretty sure my Ducato X290's FIAMM starter-battery has a vent-tube. (I suppose I shall have to bloody check this now, otherwise it will prey on my mind >:-) )

 

As you mentioned Banner batteries in your first posting above, I assume you were referring to your motorhome’s leisure-batteries - as a) it is most unlikely that a Banner battery would have been fitted to a Ducato as an OE starter-battery, and b) Rapido has for years installed the Banner “Energy Bull” 95751 product as their leisure-battery of choice.

 

https://www.bannerbatterien.com/en-gb/Products/Starter-Batteries/Energy-Bull/226-957-51

 

The Energy Bull 95751 is a wet-acid ‘maintainable’ deep-cycle type with removable cell-caps that allow the electrolyte-level to be checked and topped up if necessary. It has the capability to accept a vent-tube and any right-thinking person would fit one. (My 2015 Rapido has a Banner Energy Bull 95751 leisure-battery and Rapido fitted a vent-tube to it.)

 

My understanding (and as advised on the following link) is that the ‘elbow’ normally used for battery vent-tubes won’t fit into a Banner battery

 

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=123608809524&category=108845&pm=1&ds=0&t=1569315277000&ver=0

 

but if you choose non-Banner batteries (say Varta LFD90 batteries) as replacements, it would be very easy to swap the elbows for the ‘normal’ type if that proves necessary.

 

Varta LFD batteries are wet-acid dual-purpose type and (as you point out) their cell-caps are covered over thus preventing their electrolyte-level from being checked/topped up. When a Varta LFD battery is being installed the appropriate transit plug should be removed to allow a ‘normal’ vent-tube to be fitted. The late Allan Evans (aandncaravan) used to maintain that Varta LFD batteries (unlike Banner Energy Bull batteries) were unlikely to ‘gas’, so fitting a vent-tube to a Varta LFD battery was not really required. However, I’d definitely fit a vent-tube to any wet-acid battery that could accept a vent-tube, and (as Alanb has said) as your Rapido’s present batteries have vent-tubes why would you not connect those tubes to the replacement batteries?

 

The following link was provided by the late-Allan Evans and should be essential reading for anyone considering replacing their motorhome’s leisure battery.

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php

 

In the “The Best Batteries” section of that webpage Allan Evans offered five suggestions in price order. The two most expensive batteries are gel type and Allan listed their potential disadvantages. That leaves the Varta LFD/Bosch L ranges, the Yuasa L36-EFB and the Exide ET650.

 

Varta LFD90 (£105)

 

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-90ah-varta-lfd-90-professional-leisure-battery-930090080/

 

Yuasa L36-EFB (£120)

 

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-yuasa-100ah-efb-leisure-battery-l36-efb/

 

Exide ET650 (£140)

 

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-et650-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/

 

All three have similar physical dimensions (though I see that Alpha Batteries states that their warranty is 2, 3 or 4 years respectively) and received wisdom is that the Halfords HLB700 battery

 

https://www.halfords.com/motoring/batteries/leisure-batteries/halfords-leisure-battery-hlb700-682063.html

 

is a ‘relabelled’ Yuasa L36-EFB (but slightly cheaper).

 

Past comments from forum members have been positive about the Varta LFD90 that Allan Evans began to recommend several years ago.

 

Allan Evans was not enthusiastic about Banner Energy Bull batteries, but if yours have lasted 10 years that’s a persuasive reason to go for the Banners again.

 

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-banner-energy-bull-low-height-leisure-battery-95751/

 

But if cost is a real issue, opt for the Varta LFD90.

[Derek Uzzell]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-07-12 8:51 AM

 

 

...I’m pretty sure my Ducato X290’s FIAMM starter-battery has a vent-tube. (I suppose I shall have to bloody check this now, otherwise it will prey on my mind >:-) )

 

 

Yes it has...

 

The vent-tube’s elbow plugs into the battery on the negative (earth) end of the battery near to the position shown by the red arrow in the image below.

 

The tube itself leads downwards through a round aperture in the side of the battery compartment’s plastic moulding, then onwards to the outside air through a rubber grommet in the compartment’s floor.

 

My Ducato is an X290 model and I don’t know whether the earlier Ducato X250s would have the same arrangement. I would have thought so, as it would be commonsense to have a vent-tube leading through the battery compartment’s floor.

 

(That’s not my Ducato’s battery in the image. I stole the image from the Fiat forum and I think the battery in the photo may not be an OE one.)

[Alanb]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-07-12 8:51 AM

 

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My understanding (and as advised on the following link) is that the ‘elbow’ normally used for battery vent-tubes won’t fit into a Banner battery

 

http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemDescV4&item=123608809524&category=108845&pm=1&ds=0&t=1569315277000&ver=0

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I fitted Banner batteries a few years ago, prior to the Varta LFD range becoming popular.

 

I did not find it necessary to obtain new elbows to fit the Banner vents.

 

I simply drilled out the original elbows in 0.5mm increments using a handbrace, until the elbows could be inserted.

 

It is usefull to note that on Banner batteries it is the central rectangular slot which is the vent, and not the annular ring.

 

Alan

[Derek Uzzell]

Yes, I recall you mentioning that in your posting of 14 December 2015 10:22 PM here

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Battery-size-type/40301/

 

Banner markets a specific vent-tube (Part number: 1030001700) for their batteries that should be vented and the 2nd photo here

 

https://shop.fahrzeugbedarf.at/en/categories/electrics/battery/battery/hose-battery-air-vent/1505650/1030001700

 

shows the ’slot’ you refer to.

 

If Tony replaces his present Banner batteries on a like-for-like basis, his Rapido’s current vent-tubes should immediately be connectable to the new Banner batteries. Although connecting a 'non-Banner' vent-tube to a Banner battery would first require the vent-tube’s ‘elbow’ to be modified as you did, I THINK the elbow of a Banner vent-tube should connect to a non-Banner battery (say a Varta LFD90) without any modification being required.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tonyishuk]

Many thanks to all for your replies and detailed links.

 

The batteries had arrived before I posted the thread, although I had a useful time reading the search results from this forum. It was opening the boxes , and noting dire warnings to remove vent plugs that raised the questions.

 

The Banner battery (recreation) was a direct replacement and is restricted by height being mounted under a passenger seat and required amp hrs. To Banners credit, the battery came with elbow and tube already fitted. So I have bits for the Varta if need be. The battery was probably about 75% charged.

 

The Varta battery (vehicle) had two vent plugs. No tubes. Taking a look at the photo on this thread , I’ll take another look at the battery. It may be vented, but my battery box also had a tow bar relay and wiring in it , just to confuse the issue of what is there.

 

The Varta had minimal charge in it.

 

Both batteries came from Tanya and were well wrapped and vacuum sealed, and arrived less that 48 hrs after ordering. They had to be cleaned after delivery due to slight seepage from the vent plugs. Probably due to surprised vanman having to lift a substantially heavy box, thinking it’s an Amazon maxi box containing a couple of tooth brushes. So certainly no complaints about the supply.

 

A passing thought, that the vent tube may expel acid under some circumstances, so it pays to have a length of tube after exiting the box.

 

Unfortunately I have reached the age, where manhandling heavy batteries into tight spaces is not sensible, I leave the work to my local family garage.

 

After reading on of the results from the searches about opening, closing doors waiting for the ECU to settle etc, I took a long look in my Fiat handbook and there is absolutely zero advice on replacing a battery other than “take it to you dealer” .

 

Again thanks for your replies

 

Rgds

 

Ps Funny how things jog a memory. I recall using aquarium air tubing and fittings to vent one battery that leaked acid whilst cornering, unfortunately my Caterham 7 days are over unless I come up on the lottery.

 

[colin]

My Varta's came from Alpha, they where in individual boxes to which they had 'fitted' straps as handles, made handling them relatively easy even in my present situation. Also as I posted Alpha asked if I wanted vent kits.

[Derek Uzzell]

Tony

 

OK, I think I now understand your original posting - you are in the process of replacing your 2009 Rapido 7090F’s original starter-battery with a Varta battery and the Rapido’s original Banner leisure-battery with another Banner battery.

 

It might be useful if you gave the reference number of each battery (eg. Varta LFD90 - Banner “Energy Bull” 95751). You should know those details as you must have provided them when ordering the batteries from Tayna and (presumably) what you received is what you expected to arrive. That way informed advice could be provided, rather than educated guesswork.

 

You’ve said

 

A passing thought, that the vent tube may expel acid under some circumstances, so it pays to have a length of tube after exiting the box.

 

There’s no doubt that’s so and, even if a battery compartment is outside a motorhome’s habitation area (and assuming that the battery is ventable) it makes sense to fit a vent-tube just in case the battery or the motorhome’s electrical system develops a fault that causes the battery to ‘gas’ excessively. (I recall an instance being mentioned in the past where immediately after the hand-over a brand-new motorhome was hooked up to the owner’s 230V domestic power-supply to charge its batteries, the habitation battery became faulty overnight and, by the morning, the vehicle had filled with acidity vapour that wrote off all its upholstery and curtains.)

 

The 2009 Fiat Ducato Owner Handbook that I have a copy of suggests that the starter-battery then fitted may have had a ‘magic eye’ window to indicate its electrolyte-level and charge state, with “Go to a Fiat Dealership” being advised if either condition was indicated. I don’t know if your original had this, but - in any case - I’ve never found such things much use.

 

The 2009 Handbook does not advise that any special measures should be taken when replacing the starter-battery, but 10-year-old X250 Ducatos were simpler than the more modern versions where more caution should be taken

 

(I’m a bit wary of the ‘seepage’ thing you’ve mentioned and you might want to ask your garage to confirm that the electrolyte-level is OK before installing the new batteries.)

[tonyishuk]

Thanks for your advice;

 

For the record the batteries are;

 

95751 Banner 100/110 Ahr (Sits under the seat alongside the habitation door)

H3 Varta Silver Dynamic 100Ah

 

I checked the Banner, having learnt previously the vent caps are screwed tightly and take an amount of care not to damage the top of the cap. To Banners credit, when I complained, they sent me some caps FOC.

 

The Varta, I was rather loath to break the sealing around the caps. There was a slight amount of spill, but both vents were in securely, so I left well alone.

 

My Vehicle battery does not have the evil eye, Reminds of the good 'ol days when radios were tuned a variation of this mystical device. Maybe having the older vehicle does have its advantages with the modern electrics. That said most of the faults, thankfully few, have been down to Mr Rapido rather than Mr Fiat.

 

I thought my rather innocuous query, has seem to grown a life of its own.

 

As I have stated previously, certainly no problems with ordering and delivery from Tayna. I managed to locate a discount code on their Facebook page. Considering I am not a Facebook user or fan, it save a few pounds.

 

Thanks Again,

 

Rgds

[Derek Uzzell]

The cell-caps of Banner “Energy Bull” batteries have a special sealing ring that can make cap-removal extremely difficult. Advice about this is included in the Banner website’s FAQ section

 

https://www.bannerbatterien.com/en-gb/Support/FAQ

 

in the "How can I best open the stoppers on Banner batteries?” section, and Banner markets a tool for that purpose. The tool is shown in this advert and is also available elsewhere (eg. from Tayna).

 

https://www.parklastr.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=200412

 

The Banner product is quite expensive, but it’s not too hard to DIY a tool from suitable scrap metal. (I used a piece of duralumin.) Attempting to remove a cell-cap using a small screwdriver or a coin will inevitably damage the cell-cap.

 

Varta “Silver Dynamic” batteries (your battery shown here)

 

https://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/varta-silver-dynamic/600-402-083

 

are no-maintenance type. When the battery is built it is 'over-filled' with electrolyte, and that electrolyte has to last for the full lifespan of the battery. Although It might be possible to remove the cell-caps, this would first require the cover that is over the caps to be taken off, an action that Varta does not expect the battery’s owner to perform and that would invalidate the battery’s warranty. Essentially, Silver Dynamic batteries are fit-and-forget.

[tonyishuk]

My Mhome is back home from the garage, batteries fitted and brake fluid changed.

 

Gone are the simple jobs, I regularly did !

 

The OEM battery, had a vent tube at each end, that fitted the Varta with no problem.

 

Thanks for the Banner links. Many years ago, I made a tool to fit the caps, having destroyed a couple of caps of the ordinal battery. I contacted Banner , who sent me a set free of charge.

 

Luckily the Banner is mounted where it’s easy to check electrolyte levels. From experience I check every couple of months and top up when needed. It does like a drink occasionally!

 

Rgds