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Visiting Portugal


Barcobird

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Information for anyone thinking of visiting Portugal.

 

Due to Brexit the police are now on the look out for UK registered vehicles and clarifying how long they have been here and this will increase for sure in January. Remember you only have 90 days in EUROPE

 

The government has announced some changes to the Highway Code (Código da Estrada) . Of particular note is a ban on parking and overnight stays with motorhomes or trailers outside authorised places.

 

The Portuguese government will find this to be an easy way to fill up the coffers so be careful.

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" QUOTE Non-EU/EFTA nationals who wish to stay longer than three months, however, will need to apply for a long-term visa or Portuguese residency visa before arriving, which allows them to apply for a Portuguese residence permit after arrival. Those who fit into this category include those who work, the self-employed, students, those intending to live off savings, retired people, and family members. END QUOTE"

 

https://www.expatica.com/pt/moving/visas/portugal-immigration-105233/

 

So there are ways round the 90 days. Visa cost is €99 but might be worth it?

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Yes – that of course would be €99 per person. In addition it appears that a residency permit must be applied for at €36 per person for a 60 day extension €67 for a 90 day extension so I guess overall about €140 per person for a stay of up to five months? I don’t read Portuguese so that may be a misinterpretation https://imigrante.sef.pt/?media_dl=3009 . However, do many motorhomers visit Portugal for more than a couple of months? Or is it an overwintering destination akin to Spain?
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Guest pelmetman
bounty hunter - 2020-12-12 5:49 PM

 

But what happens when you get back to Calais and you present your passport to French Border Control who realises you have been in Schengen Area for more than 90 days and then fines you, deports you or even bans you. Big problem me thinks

 

John

Hmmm........Kinda thinking next time I fancy a long trip in the EU ;-) .........

 

I shouldn't book a return ticket :D........

 

All I need to do is rock up to the ferry Plod and they'll deport me for free B-) .......

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hallii - 2020-12-12 3:11 PM

 

" QUOTE Non-EU/EFTA nationals who wish to stay longer than three months, however, will need to apply for a long-term visa or Portuguese residency visa before arriving, which allows them to apply for a Portuguese residence permit after arrival. Those who fit into this category include those who work, the self-employed, students, those intending to live off savings, retired people, and family members. END QUOTE"

 

https://www.expatica.com/pt/moving/visas/portugal-immigration-105233/

 

So there are ways round the 90 days. Visa cost is €99 but might be worth it?

So how are you legally going to get to Santander or Calais and as also mentioned border control know exactly when you left the UK. Guaranteed euro countries are going to make money out of this 8-) Congrats to all the Brexit voters, this is just the start of the UK problems.

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hallii - 2020-12-12 3:11 PM

 

" QUOTE Non-EU/EFTA nationals who wish to stay longer than three months, however, will need to apply for a long-term visa or Portuguese residency visa before arriving, which allows them to apply for a Portuguese residence permit after arrival. Those who fit into this category include those who work, the self-employed, students, those intending to live off savings, retired people, and family members. END QUOTE"

 

https://www.expatica.com/pt/moving/visas/portugal-immigration-105233/

 

So there are ways round the 90 days. Visa cost is €99 but might be worth it?

Sorry, this is impractical, unless you want to stay for good.

 

You have to apply for residence, have an accommodation address, apply for a tax code, open a Portuguese bank account, go through an inspection process to register your van within 90 days, (you get Portuguese plates and pay Portuguese road tax), obtain local insurance, exchange your British driving license for a Portuguese one, (if over 70 take a medical and Portuguese driving test), may lose your access to medical care in the UK, may loose your right to a UK bank account, have fun and games with the Portuguese income tax system.

 

There are other issues I may have omitted. You are still limited to the 90 day rule outside of Portugal after going through the process, and when you return to the UK you have a new set of problems to sort out.

 

Mike

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mikefitz - 2020-12-13 1:46 AM

 

hallii - 2020-12-12 3:11 PM

 

" QUOTE Non-EU/EFTA nationals who wish to stay longer than three months, however, will need to apply for a long-term visa or Portuguese residency visa before arriving, which allows them to apply for a Portuguese residence permit after arrival. Those who fit into this category include those who work, the self-employed, students, those intending to live off savings, retired people, and family members. END QUOTE"

 

https://www.expatica.com/pt/moving/visas/portugal-immigration-105233/

 

So there are ways round the 90 days. Visa cost is €99 but might be worth it?

Sorry, this is impractical, unless you want to stay for good.

 

You have to apply for residence, have an accommodation address, apply for a tax code, open a Portuguese bank account, go through an inspection process to register your van within 90 days, (you get Portuguese plates and pay Portuguese road tax), obtain local insurance, exchange your British driving license for a Portuguese one, (if over 70 take a medical and Portuguese driving test), may lose your access to medical care in the UK, may loose your right to a UK bank account, have fun and games with the Portuguese income tax system.

 

There are other issues I may have omitted. You are still limited to the 90 day rule outside of Portugal after going through the process, and when you return to the UK you have a new set of problems to sort out.

 

Mike

Correct Mike, also for C1 and C1E categories (over 3500kgs) you have to undertake a physiologic test. The other bom shell is any mitorhome imported can only be insured third party for the first 2 years.

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747 - 2020-12-13 9:27 AM

 

If a limit of staying in Europe of only 180 days per year is so distressing then there is an obvious answer.

Yeah but the weather.

Thousands of aires a lot of them free, not shelling out £25 a night in a campsite.

Parking in towns to visit (and spend money) without height barriers.

Generally people are more receptive certainly in France.

Uncongested roads

 

The grass is always greener on the other side, maybe it just might be (lol)

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Barcobird - 2020-12-13 10:04 AM

 

747 - 2020-12-13 9:27 AM

 

If a limit of staying in Europe of only 180 days per year is so distressing then there is an obvious answer.

Yeah but the weather.

Thousands of aires a lot of them free, not shelling out £25 a night in a campsite.

Parking in towns to visit (and spend money) without height barriers.

Generally people are more receptive certainly in France.

Uncongested roads

 

The grass is always greener on the other side, maybe it just might be (lol)

Ah, you mean over the Winter period. The other times of the year, the weather is not much different and most aires are shut in France over Winter with the water supply turned off.

 

So you and others on here are annoyed on the 90 day restriction when you follow the Sun. Where do you spend your 90+ days (and nights)? The choice seems to be crammed into wildcamping spots around the coastline with other European wildcampers or sat on a campsite for months ... with other European motorhomers. Neither of which appeals to me and my Wife.

 

The REAL reason for this thread is that a decision was made you did not agree with and a Government was elected that you did not vote for. With a little bit of thought and effort you could work around any changes to the current situation, it's not rocket science.

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747 - 2020-12-13 1:16 PM

 

Barcobird - 2020-12-13 10:04 AM

 

747 - 2020-12-13 9:27 AM

 

If a limit of staying in Europe of only 180 days per year is so distressing then there is an obvious answer.

Yeah but the weather.

Thousands of aires a lot of them free, not shelling out £25 a night in a campsite.

Parking in towns to visit (and spend money) without height barriers.

Generally people are more receptive certainly in France.

Uncongested roads

 

The grass is always greener on the other side, maybe it just might be (lol)

Ah, you mean over the Winter period. The other times of the year, the weather is not much different and most aires are shut in France over Winter with the water supply turned off.

 

So you and others on here are annoyed on the 90 day restriction when you follow the Sun. Where do you spend your 90+ days (and nights)? The choice seems to be crammed into wildcamping spots around the coastline with other European wildcampers or sat on a campsite for months ... with other European motorhomers. Neither of which appeals to me and my Wife.

 

The REAL reason for this thread is that a decision was made you did not agree with and a Government was elected that you did not vote for. With a little bit of thought and effort you could work around any changes to the current situation, it's not rocket science.

Nope it’s not rocket I am a Portuguese resident and totally legal. The point of my post was to inform visitors after January things will be different due to Brexit.

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747 - 2020-12-13 9:27 AM

If a limit of staying in Europe of only 180 days per year is so distressing then there is an obvious answer.

But that is not the limit. The limit is "90 days within any 180 days period".

 

If wanting to make multiple trips which would, when added together, exceed 90 days in the preceding 180 days, you have to introduce an absence from Schengen of 90 days or more between trips, so as to re-set the Schengen clock. One 90 day winter trip plus one 90 day summer trip would work, but two periods of 180 days totals 360 days, so you only have 5 days "rattle space" within a year.

 

OTOH, anyone wanting to do a longish spring trip, plus a longish autumn trip, will find that creating that 90 days absence from Schengen in summer (and/or possibly in winter) restricts the choice of compliant travel dates for one, or other, trip.

 

Also, unless those wanting to spend the winter months in the south have minimal requirements for Schengen zone travel during the rest of the year, they may find themselves having to spent much of their summer trip during the peak summer holiday period.

 

As Portugal has no direct ferry routes to/from UK, the permissible time spent in Schengen must allow for the whole of the time between your date of entry into Schengen, to your date of exit from Schengen, be that at any of the Spanish, French, Belgian, or Dutch, ports.

 

A Residence Permit, or Visa, for say, Portugal, may allow stays in Portugal exceeding 90 days, but one would need to check very carefully whether either document was exempt from the Schengen short stay rule while in Portugal, so leaving a further 90 days for transit of other Schengen states.

 

Not all Schengen long stay Visas, which are issued individually by the states, are recognised by other Schengen states. In effect, you are OK if you travel direct to, and leave directly from, the territory of the issuing state, but are liable to be penalised elsewhere in the Schengen zone unless all other states crossed/visited en-route recognise the validity of the Portuguese document.

 

The EU is only a legal and administrative overlay created through treaties, it is not a homogeneous state in itself, and many of the rules that are normally exercised by individual states remain intact within their individual jurisdictions.

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Brian Kirby - 2020-12-13 4:29 PM

 

747 - 2020-12-13 9:27 AM

If a limit of staying in Europe of only 180 days per year is so distressing then there is an obvious answer.

But that is not the limit. The limit is "90 days within any 180 days period".

 

If wanting to make multiple trips which would, when added together, exceed 90 days in the preceding 180 days, you have to introduce an absence from Schengen of 90 days or more between trips, so as to re-set the Schengen clock. One 90 day winter trip plus one 90 day summer trip would work, but two periods of 180 days totals 360 days, so you only have 5 days "rattle space" within a year.

 

OTOH, anyone wanting to do a longish spring trip, plus a longish autumn trip, will find that creating that 90 days absence from Schengen in summer (and/or possibly in winter) restricts the choice of compliant travel dates for one, or other, trip.

 

Also, unless those wanting to spend the winter months in the south have minimal requirements for Schengen zone travel during the rest of the year, they may find themselves having to spent much of their summer trip during the peak summer holiday period.

 

As Portugal has no direct ferry routes to/from UK, the permissible time spent in Schengen must allow for the whole of the time between your date of entry into Schengen, to your date of exit from Schengen, be that at any of the Spanish, French, Belgian, or Dutch, ports.

 

A Residence Permit, or Visa, for say, Portugal, may allow stays in Portugal exceeding 90 days, but one would need to check very carefully whether either document was exempt from the Schengen short stay rule while in Portugal, so leaving a further 90 days for transit of other Schengen states.

 

Not all Schengen long stay Visas, which are issued individually by the states, are recognised by other Schengen states. In effect, you are OK if you travel direct to, and leave directly from, the territory of the issuing state, but are liable to be penalised elsewhere in the Schengen zone unless all other states crossed/visited en-route recognise the validity of the Portuguese document.

 

The EU is only a legal and administrative overlay created through treaties, it is not a homogeneous state in itself, and many of the rules that are normally exercised by individual states remain intact within their individual jurisdictions.

Yes Brian ... it is a terrible nightmare. *-)

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Brian Kirby - 2020-12-13 11:29 PM

 

747 - 2020-12-13 9:27 AM

If a limit of staying in Europe of only 180 days per year is so distressing then there is an obvious answer.

But that is not the limit. The limit is "90 days within any 180 days period".

 

I.

The UK could have pressed for special treatment for Britons to be able to visit EU countries for up to six months , as a reciprocal measure.

 

Boris Johnson stated that the "full scope of the arrangements, including provision for those with 2nd homes in the EU is a matter for negotiation".

 

Following Johnson's statement, in answer to a parliamentary question, British minister Penny Mordaunt stated that the government was NOT seeking to agree any specific mobility arrangements for second home owners (or by extension MHomers).

 

French Europe minister, Clement Beaune was asked if we (UK) could go beyond the 90 day rule. He replied that it was a point where it would be feasible to find an opt-out or negotiate more flexibility, yet he declared that his British "friends" have "rather little appetite for negotiating on this point in the discussions".

 

So there you have it. Sold down the river by incompetent politicians.

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Barcobird - 2020-12-13 3:51 PM

 

747 - 2020-12-13 2:10 PM

 

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the changes to motorhome parking applicable to ALL motorhomes, not just British ones?

Correct, point being ?

I think the point being made is that the new (long needed) rules regarding making parking on roadsides etc illegal is not as a result of Brexit. It is more to do with the increasing problem of selfish, thoughtless parking by motorhomers of all persuasions that has finally tipped the balance.

 

David

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Barcobird - 2020-12-13 7:16 PM

 

Yes Brian ... it is a terrible nightmare. *-)

So who voted for Brexit (lol) I bet half the people who voted to leave are regretting it now *-)

I must be in the other half not regretting it one bit. There’s more to it than just how it affects my European motorhome trips.

 

David

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It seems I have confused some members. 8-)

 

I should have couched it in simpler terms. :D

 

One full year is 365 days (occasionally 366 days).

 

You can legally stay in the EU for 180 of those days. That is for almost half of the year. It just takes some simple planning and you can start your year on any day you wish that fits in with your planning.

 

Given that the legal period is almost half of a year, the UK is such a terrible place, southern Europe is warm and sunny, the cost of living is cheaper, property is cheap and lots of Brits already live there ... why not move there permanently? It seems the obvious choice to anyone who is disgruntled.

 

I am not knocking anyone who thinks the situation with Brexit has caused them great pain ... I just don't understand their angst.

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david lloyd - 2020-12-13 7:57 PM

 

Barcobird - 2020-12-13 7:16 PM

 

Yes Brian ... it is a terrible nightmare. *-)

So who voted for Brexit (lol) I bet half the people who voted to leave are regretting it now *-)

I must be in the other half not regretting it one bit. There’s more to it than just how it affects my European motorhome trips.

 

David

Doesn’t just apply to motorhomes though does it?

Pound has dropped on no trade deal.

Imports will attract tariffs

Massive queues at the ports

Thousands of lorries waiting to cross the Chanel

Northern Ireland border problem

Food will be more expensive

Government will have to pay billions for settlement

Kicking out immigrants will mean Brits will have to do more menial jobs with low pay ( that could be interesting)

I don’t have time to list the rest but the UK will be a third world country from January 1st. Let’s hope they like their independence and don’t expect Biden to help you out.

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