johnfromnorfolk Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 For those who have posted on my previous thread regarding the purchase of gas in France this is the next and I hope the final post in this saga. For those who have not read the previous thread, I urge you to read what has been posted. After purchasing a 'Cube ' gas container and seeking advice from a very helpful lady in a large outdoor retailer who assured me that the regulator supplied with the gas bottle and my bulkhead fitted regulator would be o.k. After reading on here the doubts about two inline regulators, I went in search of an adapter that replaced the regulator on top of the Cube. Having searched and found a large ourdoor retailer with a very knowledgeable chap who looked inside our gas locker and after much head scratching and making pipe connections that appeared to fit the new adapter and connected to our bulkhead regulator. So off we set hoping that after diverting around Northern France, we could at last begin our 3 month adventure around France. That afternoon we checked into an A.C.S.I. site prepared a meal and enjoyed a glass of the red stuff. Explosion Just as we were preparing to retire to bed, a loud explosion came from the side of our motor home. We raced out side to smell gas and the unmistakable hiss of escaping gas from our gas locker. When I opened the locker door the connecting pipe from the gas adapter had burst spewing gas into the night air. I managed to turn off the gas. Shaken we returned inside our camper to reflect what could have been a potentially catastrophic accident. Of course the pipe connecting the adapter to the regulator was of a low pressure type. Feeling totally deflated that after days of trying to purchase a system that would suit our motorhome and despairing at the cost in not only cash terms but wasted time. Out of pure desperation I contacted the A.A. and asking them to recommend a motorhome specialist in Northern France. The initial response was to point out that they really only delta with breakdowns but detecting the anxiety in my voice, searched and found a motorhome repairer 60 miles to our north. The next day we drove to the company, the mechanic looked at our gas locker and shook his head in disbelief. He produced the correct high pressure hose, fitted and tested the system and within half an hour we were on our way. This time feeling confident that we had at last solved our problem. Now others on here have suggested purchasing a gas bottle and the suitable connections from a supermarket or petrol station. These outlets may be fine for a standard set up, but maybe unfairly I theories that supermarkets sell food and petrol stations sell petrol. After my experience of a cost of well over 100 Euros and probably 4/5 days diverting from our original planned route I would suggest anyone purchasing gas in France, consider the cost of a gas glow system in the U.K. or find a proper motor home outlet in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 It is a learning curve, and unfortunately you have learnt the hard way that helpful people are not always competent people. The lady who sold you the regulated adaptor should never have done so, it was the wrong fitting but the worst that might have happened would have been no gas to your appliances. The person who attached a low pressure hose to an un-regulated cylinder adaptor should never have done so. It was dangerously incompetent and could have resulted in a fire, or worse. High pressure hose was, if I remember, mentioned among the replies you were given. It seems you were not familiar with the differences in the two kinds of hose, so did not recognise what had been done. A valuable lesson learnt, albeit at somewhat high cost - though it could easily have been a lot worse. It seems you now have your Cube, and a safe and working installation, and have gained a lot of valuable knowledge - albeit having suffered a very frightening experience en-route. Your French must be quite good to have got you through your experiences. However, none of this stuff is quite as straightforward as it first looks, and it is often worth asking the questions, and getting any odd bits, in the UK, so that one can check the technicalities in one's mother tongue. Don't let this put you off, we've all had things backfire on us - though generally not in quite such a dramatic way! Good luck, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 What a terrible experience for you John. Glad to hear it was less serious than it might have been. However, I am confused with you post. As far as I know the Cube needs low pressure piping and connection, not high pressure. That is how my set-up is together with the connection on the Cube as was shown in the earlier post. My system has run like that since we changed to the French gas when my husband was alive, over10 years ago. I also run the BP light bottle off the same connection. As I contributed to the earlier thread, I feel responsible and afraid that I may have mislead you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoko8pups Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Patricia - 2015-06-22 10:49 PM What a terrible experience for you John. Glad to hear it was less serious than it might have been. However, I am confused with you post. As far as I know the Cube needs low pressure piping and connection, not high pressure. That is how my set-up is together with the connection on the Cube as was shown in the earlier post. My system has run like that since we changed to the French gas when my husband was alive, over10 years ago. I also run the BP light bottle off the same connection. As I contributed to the earlier thread, I feel responsible and afraid that I may have mislead you. Patricia, do you have a brass connector to the BP light bottle or a union clip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 yoko8pups - 2015-06-22 11:00 PM Patricia - 2015-06-22 10:49 PM What a terrible experience for you John. Glad to hear it was less serious than it might have been. However, I am confused with you post. As far as I know the Cube needs low pressure piping and connection, not high pressure. That is how my set-up is together with the connection on the Cube as was shown in the earlier post. My system has run like that since we changed to the French gas when my husband was alive, over10 years ago. I also run the BP light bottle off the same connection. As I contributed to the earlier thread, I feel responsible and afraid that I may have mislead you. Patricia, do you have a brass connector to the BP light bottle or a union clip? Sorry but I have no idea but will be going over to the 'van soon and will take a photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach2000 Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Patricia, the Cube has a low pressure pipe if you are using the regulator that came with the cylinder when you bought it. However if you have bought an unregulated valve to replace it then you should have a high pressure pipe to the regulator fixed onto the van. Just as a matter of interest does anyone check the dates printed on the pipes to see if they need replacing. Ideally every 5 years. Hope this helps. Clive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coach2000 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 John, sorry to hear about your bad experience. I had a lot of messing about to get the Cube to work when I changed vans but nothing as bad as your experience. Don't let it put you off, there are a lot of funny and amusing experiences to be had as well to be remembered for many years. Clive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Patricia - 2015-06-22 10:49 PM What a terrible experience for you John. Glad to hear it was less serious than it might have been. However, I am confused with you post. As far as I know the Cube needs low pressure piping and connection, not high pressure. That is how my set-up is together with the connection on the Cube as was shown in the earlier post. My system has run like that since we changed to the French gas when my husband was alive, over10 years ago. I also run the BP light bottle off the same connection. As I contributed to the earlier thread, I feel responsible and afraid that I may have mislead you. I think the answer is that your van doesn't have a bulkhead mounted regulator, Patricia, so your regulator is cylinder mounted. John's regulator is bulkhead mounted, which is why he was advised to discard the cylinder mounted regulator and get a direct connection adaptor. The difference, as he has discovered, is that the pigtail is then subject to the full cylinder gas pressure, and not the 30mbar pressure to which your pigtail (if you see what I mean! :-)) is subjected. The high pressure pigtails are pre-assembled items with made-on connectors at either end, to be able to resist the much higher pressures to which they are subjected. I don't think anyone realised that John was unfamiliar with the difference, so might not spot the error (or that anyone would be daft enough to supply a low pressure connector for a high pressure application!). It's one of the dangers of trying to give advice on the forum, I'm afraid. One sometimes forgets that things which have come to seem primal may be completely unknown territory to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 John originally inquired about obtaining a French gas-bottle as a backup to his Calor canister while holidaying for 3 months in France. His question was posted at 7:43pm on 6 June (a Saturday) saying that he would be travelling to France “next week”. No indication was given whether this meant Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. so (unless you have psychic powers) I don’t see how you can know John “...had a full week within which to get a gas low or similar refillable system fitted..” The advice given regarding the “Le Cube” bottle was accurate and purchase of the bottle in France and a safe installation in John’s Swift motorhome SHOULD have been straightforward. On Sunday 7 June Patricia provided a link http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/caravan/gas/product_35408/27mm_adaptor_for_french_le_cube_and_bp_lightweight.aspx This shows the type of adapter that would be required to connect to a Le Cube bottle when a motorhome has a bulkhead-mounted ‘fitted’ regulator (as John’s 2013 motorhome Swift has). The link describes the adapter as "A clip on adaptor for French Le Cube and BP lightweight cylinders. THIS IS NOT A REGULATOR. It must be connected to a regulator via a high pressure pigtail hose such as part 219869.” (There is also specific advice in the Technical Questions part of the link about connecting to a Le Cube bottle that kevandali refers to in the most recent posting here:) http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/French-gas/38479/31/#M465700 With hindsight it would have been best to tell John that, although it should be easy to obtain a Le Cube bottle from French DIY stores and supermarket service-stations, he must visit a caravan/motorhome dealership regarding the installation. But - if John had asked about this earlier - he would have been able to obtain a suitable adapter and gas-hose in the UK (for under £25) and then not have needed to expose himself to the tender mercies of well-meaning but inexpert French personnel. I don’t know what the French outdoor retailer’s ‘very knowledgeable chap’ did to allow a Le Cube full-pressure adapter to be connected to a motorhome’s bulkhead-mounted regulator, but the apparent choice of a low-pressure gas-hose reveals a startling level of incompetence. John’s comment that - when he subsequently visited a motorhome repairer - “...the mechanic looked at our gas locker and shook his head in disbelief...” really says it all. French regulations relating to French-registered leisure-vehicles demand that gas-hoses have threaded end-connectors. However, although gas-hoses for the worm-and-clip connectors historically used in the UK are forbidden for use in French-registered caravans/motorhomes, they are marketed for domestic applications http://sudaccessoires.com/product.php?id_product=317 My understanding is that on-bottle regulators are also not permitted for French-registered leisure vehicles, so it would be reasonable to assume that any gas-hose marketed in France that would connect a gas-bottle carrying a full-pressure adapter to a bulkhead-mounted regulator ought to be the high-pressure type as shown in this advert http://www.leader-loisirs.com/lyre-haute-pression-p-1914.html?osCsid=6e61dd8e15b29930d64e4d23d1a0ece1 It is possible to obtain in France ‘low pressure’ gas pigtails that Brian describes as “...pre-assembled items with made-on connectors at either end...”, but these will be intended for non-French leisure-vehicle gas systems (eg. German systems) where an on-bottle regulator is permitted. As it’s likely that even those pigtails are made from materials able to withstand a high gas-pressure, it’s difficult to envisage how John’s ‘knowledgeable chap’ managed to screw up so badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevandali Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Posted this in the other 'Warning Gas' thread by mistake. Bloody Ell John! http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/images/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Glad you are all ok. I was in the same position as you last year and we found it very difficult to understand what we actually needed and ended up not getting anything as we ran out right at the end of our trip. Thanks to these posts I now have a far better idea. (I have two 13kg propane bottles at the moment) To anyone not going down the Gaslow route (like myself) I think what you need is below but I am sure someone will be along to confirm this shortly. QUESTION:I have an Elddis motorhome which I take to France regularly. I would like to be able to use French gas cylinders and believe that I need an adapter or suitable pigtail to be able to do this. Do you stock such items, please? ANSWER:A popular cylinder in france is the 'Le Cube' and the adaptor for this is our part 135408 You can use your existing pigtail if you are currently operating on butane (blue gas bottle). If not then you will also need pigtail 119869. http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/caravan/gas/product_35408/27mm_adaptor_for_french_le_cube_and_bp_lightweight.aspx http://www.leisureshopdirect.com/caravan/home/product_19869/pigtail_hose_for_butane._20inch_long.aspx Enjoy your hols John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 This is my original post in which I tell John that my motorhome has an old style gas fitting but if his has the new style then he will need to buy connectors, probably in the UK: Quote: "They (the Cube bottles) also work perfectly well with the fittings already on my gas pipes. The regulators are the clip-on type 27mm(the same that fit the BP light bottles in the UK) so I never have to change any fittings, just unclip the bottle, change it and clip back on. My m/home is a 2001 so does not have new fittings. If your van has the new style fittings you will have to buy connectors, probably in the UK." This has worried me all night but, now I have found the relevant quote, I do not feel so guilty now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 coach2000 - 2015-06-22 11:53 PM Patricia, the Cube has a low pressure pipe if you are using the regulator that came with the cylinder when you bought it. However if you have bought an unregulated valve to replace it then you should have a high pressure pipe to the regulator fixed onto the van. Just as a matter of interest does anyone check the dates printed on the pipes to see if they need replacing. Ideally every 5 years. Hope this helps. Clive. Thanks for the explanation. Yes, I do check the pipes and have had them replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patricia Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I think that both the "nice lady" and the "nice man" need to be told the potential result of their "repair/connection attempts" so that they do not repeat the exercise. So, if JohnfromNorfolk wants to contact me with all the relevant facts and information, I will do my best to contact the firms concerned and sent a complaint on his behalf. It would also be useful to publish the name and address of the successful motorhome firm in case of need from other posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombies Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Stuff happens. ask for advice on a forum, what are you likely to get If they were competent in french you would wait until in france and ask. I think I might have commeted go to a supermarket, buy a regulator and buy gas. I said this because I've dine it without issue as do most french. What I haven't done is done it with their setup which I know nothing about. It's not a good experience and could have been worse, a pipe blew off, not sure they are or could blame anyone here, at the end of the day it's their choice where they get info from. everyone is an expert, even those who did it for them last time. Let's hope they enjoy france anyway. Edited to add this is what I was referring to No need to visit an expert, just know what you have yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnfromnorfolk Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 I should have added - enjoying excellent Red wine, very tasty baguettes and French cheese. Experiencing good French markets and visited the delightful towns of Vannes and Nantes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan MMM Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Thread has been moderated. Please do not attempt to restart the bickering, leave this as a useful warning about the dangers of incorrect gas installations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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