ike Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Hi I've not been on the forum for several years but I'm sure you're still all as helpful as ever. We have a 2018 reg Weinsberg bought in 2020. We've had loads of problems with it, the latest being water ingress. The warranty from the seller has expired so I'm trying to contact Weinsberg directly. I believe the water ingress manufacturer's warranty is 6 years I've tried messaging them on a warranty forum but without success. I've also asked the seller (a company, not an individual) if they know of a phone number or email address but they're ignoring me. Can anyone assist please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 From your post, you are the second owner? Also from your post you bought from a Weinsberg dealer? So, as part of the documentation that came with the van there should be a warranty document that explains the duration of the base manufacturer's warranty (usually one, sometimes two) years, plus the water ingress warranty. The latter should state the duration of that warranty and the conditions to be met to a) maintain it in force (usually, as a minimum that it is subjected to regular water ingress tests, usually annually within set time "windows" around the anniversary of its first registration, usually by a dealer for the brand only), b) the conditions for transfer of the warranty to subsequent owners, c) a means of recording that the required checks have been carried out and d) the manner in which defects covered by the warranty are to be notified to the manufacturer (usually, via a dealer for the brand). So, with apologies if this sounds somewhat abrupt, do you have the above documents, and what do they actually say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 In late-2017 Knaus stated that a 10-year water-ingress warranty would be offered for its 2018 'model-year' Knaus and Weinsberg motorhomes and caravans. https://tinyurl.com/pn42xd5v The inference of this was that the duration of that warranty was shorter previously, so 6 years may well have been the case for 'pre-2018' Weinsberg motorhomes. Major motorhome manufacturers (unsurprisingly!) tend to be reluctant to provide email or phone contact details, expecting problems to be dealt with by their authorised dealerships. However, Weinsberg's website does provide a "How to reach us" webpage that may be helpful. https://weinsberg.com/en-uk/support/contact-person/ There's also a UK Knaus & Weinsburg Owners Club group on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/groups/519134055227757/ and that's where Irene might be best to seek advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 The key problem Is here that the producer of the motorhome does not exactly say on paper to the dealer what the test means. They do not provide the method or a unique leak test report. At least to the user. Just an invoice that they did the test of what? But whit this you can claim a new side wall or roof as proven by me on a particular motorhome. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Thanks for that Brian. Not abrupt at all, straight to the point as usual. The paper work is an issue, the details of which I won't bore you. It was bought from Camperco, a hire company. Won't be doing that again. The van is in the repair shop at the moment. On it's return I'll check the documents, as you suggest, but I suspect what I need is not there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Thanks for that info Derek. Another helpful voice. I'll try both those points of contact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Just realised I'd already used that link and my query has not been responded to. On going back into it, there's a statement that you have to go through your dealer. The dealer isn't responding either. I'll keep at it. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 For the record, Camperco (based near Edinburgh) is - according to the Weinsberg website - an authorised Weinsberg motorhome dealership, not just a hire company. https://dealer.knaustabbert.de/index.php?brand=3300&L=5&id=dealers&location-name=Edinburgh&lat=55.953252&lng=-3.188267 https://www.thecampercoshowroom.com/locations/edinburgh/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 ike - 2022-01-23 10:51 AM Thanks for that Brian. Not abrupt at all, straight to the point as usual. The paper work is an issue, the details of which I won't bore you. It was bought from Camperco, a hire company. Won't be doing that again. The van is in the repair shop at the moment. On it's return I'll check the documents, as you suggest, but I suspect what I need is not there Much will depend on what the dealer told you about the van when you bought it. But, if buying a two year old van from a franchised dealer, as Derek seems to have established to be the case, then you definitely should have been supplied with all the relevant documentation. The only "get out" to this that I can think of would be if the warranty terms expressly exclude (in some form) ex hire vehicles. If that were the case, the dealer should have made clear to you that you were buying an unwarranted vehicle, and the sale price should have ben correspondingly lower than the "normal" market value for an equivalent vehicle. You mention a warranty from the seller. Was this in lieu of the Weinsberg warranty? Given the (presumably) Fiat warranty is stand alone, and has its own terms and duration depending on the arrangement between Fiat and the converter where the vehicle is to be sold in UK, I can't see what was to be warranted by the seller if the Weinsberg warranty was extant. If you are missing the Weinsberg warranty documentation (or part of it) from the dealer, they should be able to provide replacement documentation suitably completed and, if necessary, back-dated to validate it. Weinsberg is a Knaus Tabbert brand, and our van (although a PVC) is a 2017 Knaus conversion, so I'd guess the Weinsberg warranty terms would be closely similar. I had some need to contact Knaus at the time of purchase, and found them responsive and helpful to the extent of providing F.o.C a duplicate Certificate of Conformity appropriate to the UK market (the van is a LHD import). I don't know what, if any, differences there are between consumer legislation in Scotland and England, but if the vehicle is defective, as it seems it is, under English consumer law the seller is the responsible party and any manufacturer's warranty merely an additional benefit that the seller is not legally entitled to hide behind. If Citizens Advice operates north of the border, you might be wise to talk to them a.s.a.p, as it seems you may, eventually, have to consider some form of legal action against the seller, and some preparatory guidance before you go too far seems to me wise. Ducks in a row, etc! :-). If it will help, I'll have a look at our Knaus warranty terms and tell you what they say. To that end, it would be helpful to know what problems you have experienced since purchase, so that I know what to look for! If you prefer, PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Brian Kirby - 2022-01-24 1:22 PM ...The only "get out" to this that I can think of would be if the warranty terms expressly exclude (in some form) ex hire vehicles. If that were the case, the dealer should have made clear to you that you were buying an unwarranted vehicle, and the sale price should have ben correspondingly lower than the "normal" market value for an equivalent vehicle.... I don't know how common a 'no hire use' clause is in a motorhome warranty, but the Auto-Trail warranty advises - Prohibited Uses. Your motorhome should only be used for recreational purposes and must not be the permanent residence for any person, including you or any member of your family. Your motorhome must not be used for hire, reward or commercial use, and race or rally use is prohibited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 Yes, but I think that exclusion would usually apply to a private owner. However, as you found the seller dealer is also a franchised Weinsberg dealer, I would imagine their hiring activities would have some degree of manufacturer backing, in which case I'd hope they would agree that a subsequent private buyer would benefit in full from the remaining warranty period. Of course, this all assumes that the hires were manufacturer supported, and not the dealers way to increase his revenues by hiring out his stock vans as a side line, then selling them on as used vans. But, I would thing the log books would make that difficult, unless they hold them back until after the sale has completed on a "bought as seen basis". Who knows? There's some funny people in the motor trade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 The Camperco website does have a 'motorhome warranty' section, but the information provided is far from comprehensive https://www.thecampercoshowroom.com/motorhome-warranty/ There's also a 'used motorhomes for sale' section https://www.thecampercoshowroom.com/used/ that includes the statement "Check out our ex-rental motorhomes offering low mileage and free value-added packs!" If Irene's Weinsberg is an ex-rental motorhome, its Weinsberg warranties (including the water-ingess one) might have been invalidated from the very start, and the warranty provided by Camperco may have been quite short and restrictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Yes, that, precisely, is my fear as well. If Irene can obtain and clarify more on the documentation she has, and the various problems with her van, we may be able to make less generalised comments. At present, we're pretty much shooting in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Irene, I note you haven't logged on for several days, so am wondering if your problems are now resolved? Otherwise, if you would like further advice, I have spoken to a Scottish contact who has considerable legal experience, specifically in Scotland, who has looked at this string and has some comments you may find helpful. Post back or PM me if you would like the benefits of his thoughts. Our problem is that we lack necessary details but, having sniffed around a bit further, I have to say that the signs are not encouraging. I will limit my comments to the warranty on our own van, which is Knaus branded rather than Weinsberg branded. The following is on the assumption that the warranty terms and conditions for all Knaus Tabbert group vehicles are broadly similar so that, Weinsberg being a Knaus Tabbert brand, the warranty on ours will reflect that on yours. Ours is a 2017 registered LHD import from Germany, so one year older than yours, but has English language documentation. The validity of our warranty is 5 years (defined as 60 months). First, the water ingress warranty states clearly that it is invalidated in the event of commercial use. So, if yours is the same, and unless the selling Weinsberg dealer has specific manufacturer's back up for their hire activities that reinstates, or partially reinstates, the warranty, it will have been invalidated by being let out for hire. Second, there is no mention of transferability to subsequent owners (that is to say the warranty is completely "silent" on the subject), which leads me to construe that it "dies" if the vehicle is sold on within its validity. As the selling dealer will have had to register, tax, and insure the van for hire purposes, and were presumably entered in the original V5C logbook as its "Registered Keeper", there can be little doubt that you are not its first owners. The pre-condition for maintaining the warranty in force for the full 60 months is that the van be checked for water ingress, by a franchised Knaus (Weinsberg?) dealer, annually, within two months of the anniversary of first registration, and that these inspections are recorded in the warranty inspection booklet. Failure to have these inspections carried out, or carried out to time, invalidates the warranty. The pre-condition for making a claim is that the claim is submitted through a franchised Knaus dealer, authorised by Knaus, and carried out by the dealer. It therefore seems that the selling dealer would not, in any case, have carried out the water ingress checks since the act of hiring the van would have rendered the warranty valueless, and so the ingress checks a pointless expense. So I'm afraid that unless you have different documentation, it seems the Weinsberg water ingress warranty has probably been invalidated on three counts! I was puzzled by the apparent exclusion of transferability of any unexpired warranty period to subsequent owners, so checked with a different UK Weinsberg dealer. Their (verbal) advice was that this was also their understanding. Something I suspect a number of Knaus Tabbert produced van and caravan owners may not have spotted, with potential impact on resale values! If the above reasonably reflects your present situation, your only recourse for recovery of your repair cost will be against the selling dealer, either through persuasion, or the courts. If the latter, do any of your insurances; motor, motorhome, house contents, or club or union memberships, whatever, have a legal assistance service? If so, I suggest you get on to them, or Citizens Advice Scotland, soonest, for further advice and assistance on your present legal position, and how best to protect it. That aside, it seems you will probably have to meet the repair costs from your own resources! But, having said all of the above, I shall be absolutely delighted to be proved wrong! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 Thanks for your assistance and advice, especially Brian and Derek. I'd gone silent because I'd contacted Camperco about the warranty documentation and was awaiting a reply. They are not responding and I'm feeling very despondent about the whole experience. We've had several issues with the van. I've only just read your very detailed reply Brian and I'm feeling even more despondent. There's a lot of information there and I'll have to reread it. Perhaps we'll just have to accept that the cost won't be recoverable. My hope is that we'll have no more water ingress issues. Once I've digested your responses I'll have a think about how to proceed and possibly take up your kind offer of further assistance/ advice. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Just a quick update which may be of interest to other new Weinsberg owners. The warranty hasn't been invalidated but to ensure its validity the annual habitation check has to be uploaded to Weinsberg via their portal. This can only be accessed by a Weinsberg dealer who are few and far between. I'm still trying to sort out my issue but at least now I know that the warranty is valid for any future issues (hopefully none will arise). Thanks again for everyone's interest and advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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