BruceM Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 About a year ago the in-cab glove compartment fuse for the windscreen wipers/washers blew when operating both. The replacement fuse has just blown in similar circumstances. As is common with many A Class vans there’s no base vehicle manual and consequently nothing to indicate which rated fuses should be fitted so it’s possible that a previous owner had not replaced like with like. Alternatively it’s possible that additional devices have been hung off the wiper supply Both scenarios may be taking the current draw close enough to the fuse’s limit to cause premature failure. So as a starting point for my investigation I was wondering if anyone with a Ducato 03/04 base vehicle would check what fuse they have fitted in position 3? See pic. My currently fitted fuse is rated 15A . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Not exactly the same vehicle, but my 2006 x244 Ducato employs a 30A maxi blade fuse for this function. I would expect the current taken by the wash/wipe function to be similar on both vehicles. If you still have the old fuse, examine it. If the metal element has largely disappeared that is indicative of a short circuit. On the other hand if the element has just fractured, it indicates a sustained overload of the fuse, as could be expected if the fuse is too small. The fact that your fuse lasts for a considerable period of time before failing also suggests a fuse that is too small. Another possibility is that another load has been paralled onto the circuit, but as it would have to be substantial, and is controlled by the ignition switch, I do not rate that possibility highly. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 Thanks Alan. The fuse element has indeed just fractured. The fracture is small enough to make it difficult to spot without a careful look – or in my case, the use of a multimeter. Subject to input from anyone else I might initially replace the fuse with one rated at 20A (small steps) to see how that goes. Ideally I’d have measured the current drawn but my multimeter maxes out at 10A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I can find various pictures of this X230 fusebox via google, most showing a blue (15A) fuse in that position. X230 owner's manuals aren't too easy to find, but this (though in Dutch) gives enough info on pp 97 and 99 to confirm that value. http://members.quicknet.nl/chlooyen/info/Ducato230Instructieboekje.pdf BUT, one caveat. Your vehicle, being an A-Class, may well not have the standard Ducato wipers of the time, and the motors may be higher rated, or marginal for the ex-factory fuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 I know nothing about your van but I do remember that back then there was an A Class (Hymer?) that had 3 wiper blades and used Volvo parts. Is yours the standard Ducato size of that period? If I remember correctly, one wiper blade was 22" and the other 24". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Just two windscreen wipers on an i5830 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-05 6:42 PM Just two windscreen wipers on an i5830 ...yes, but I doubt they are Fiat parts. (I don't think they come in the "bag of bits" with a chassis cowl). If the wipers are up-sized to deal with the larger A-class windscreen, it is entirely possibly that the motors fitted by the converter are also upgraded. (And, as above, I also believe that Hymer used Volvo motors on certain A-class models) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted June 5, 2020 Author Share Posted June 5, 2020 I managed to get my camera into the engine bay so: Wiper blades both 22” Wiper motor (see picture) made in Italy and the wiper gearbox likewise. Motor is a Denso TGE 422 L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 OE fit blades (non chassis cowl) were both 22" Whilst I'd rather have expected Marelli motors not Denso, the "made in Italy" might well mean these were OE units. Manual still says 15A fuse, though. Edited to add - I believe they are OE (or at least OE spec). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 I don’t know if any of the comments here may help https://abmforum.com/fiat-ducato-wiper-motor.html A replacement (Chinese-made) new Denso wiper-motor seems to be available quite cheaply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-06 7:50 AM I don’t know if any of the comments here may help https://abmforum.com/fiat-ducato-wiper-motor.html A replacement (Chinese-made) new Denso wiper-motor seems to be available quite cheaply. Many thanks for that. Yes, it would appear that I could replace the whole motor and gear mechanism via Ebay with a new OE part for £80 delivered or non OE part for £28 delivered. The thing is, except for the fuse prematurely failing the wipers work fine. It would help if I could find the spec for the motor and windscreen washer motors to find out their maximum currant draw. As a test I removed the fuse and checked to see what electronics ceased working. Just the wipers and windscreen washers so I’m confident that they’re the only current draw on the fuse. Thinking about when the fuse fails, it’s only ever done it when I’ve been operating the wipers and washers simultaneously and as I switch up from off to intermittent to slow wipe. Presumably, if the wipers struggled due to a dry windscreen their current draw would climb dramatically? Whether or not any of this indicates a worn wiper motor I’m not experienced enough to say. Other than that I’m stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Have you closely checked the wiring connections, especially in areas where they may get shaken or contaminated? A poor connection increases the current draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 BruceM - 2020-06-06 11:55 AM The thing is, except for the fuse prematurely failing the wipers work fine. It would help if I could find the spec for the motor and windscreen washer motors to find out their maximum currant draw. A number of compatible replacements quote the motor power as 40W - 50W (per motor) which would equate to something around 8 amps (continuous) with the wipers working. The washer pump will be negligible compared to this (unless it has failed, which implicitly it has not). There is likely to be some start-up surge, which could be exacerbated by a worn motor/gearing/linkage, but if the 40-50W figure is correct (I've found at least three references on different compatible kit) a 15A fuse should provide ample headroom for normal running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 747 - 2020-06-06 12:15 PM Have you closely checked the wiring connections, especially in areas where they may get shaken or contaminated? A poor connection increases the current draw. Thanks, when it stops raining I'll get out the contact cleaner and have look in the engine bay at the wiper motor connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 747 - 2020-06-06 12:15 PM Have you closely checked the wiring connections, especially in areas where they may get shaken or contaminated? A poor connection increases the current draw. I have some difficulty in accepting the above concept. If taken to the ultimate, infinite connection resistance would lead to infinite current. I accept that it may be possible for a slowed motor start due to lower current, to increase the value of I^2 x t (current squared multiplied by time), to which the heating effect in the fuse is proportional. However it is important to remember the current squared part. I suggest however, that it would be sensible for Bruce to check that the mechanical linkage is adequately lubricated, when checking the motor connections. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickydripin Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 Posted: 5 June 2020 2:46 PM Subject: Which fuse for windscreen washers – Ducato 03/04 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Bruce I have a Ducato 04 and the washer is a 15amp fuse in the cab on the left hand side under the glove compartment "fuse F43" there is another fuse box under the bonnet by the washer bottle for the wipers it is a green 30amp maxi fuse number "F08." Mine is a campervan so the boxes may be in a different place than on your van. Some time ago on MMM someone else was having fuse problems and it was suggested that he may have been using inferior fuses and they suggested that they buy quality fuses such as Bosch as the cheeper ones were not much good. Hope this helps. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 BruceM - 2020-06-05 2:46 PM About a year ago the in-cab glove compartment fuse for the windscreen wipers/washers blew when operating both. The replacement fuse has just blown in similar circumstances. When I had a similar problem with a Ducato it was one of the shafts which came out thru the body connecting the drive mechanism to the wiper arm was starting to seize after removing the wiper blade there is a circlip which when removed allows the shaft to be pushed back enough to lubricate it I did both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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