Guest Brian M. Leahy Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I am setting of round the coast after Easter to gather data for another guide that I am writing to caravan sites with a view of the sea. I prefer to stay at CLs or CSs only staying at Camping and Caravan Club and Caravan Club club sites when my co-driver, navigator, cook and secretary insists its time to do the washing so I will be relying heavily upon the leisure battery power. On checking the second-hand Hymer we just bought to replace our Auto Trail Apache I found that it only had an 85amp leisure battery so I am looking for advice. 1. Is the 110 amp battery the largest one can buy? 2. We shall be driving between 100 and 300 miles a day which should re-charge a battery but I wonder if I would be better off buying two leisure batteries? 3. Can anyone recommend which make of battery I should buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Powell Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 How Long is a piece of string? All things considered I have found HALFORDS batteries hard to beat...110 leisures, vehicle, and little car batteries. They are not "cheap"..Try them, unless any one on the Forum has found a problem with them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Ramsden Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 I have had problems with Halfords batteries failing just within the guarantee period (2 years) - but they did replace it. That was for a car battery. for leisure batteries I use County Batteries - http://www.countybattery.co.uk/ I have found the product and the service very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeteC Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 If you do fit two batteries make sure that they are both (a) of the same capacity and (b) they are both new If you connect a new battery to your old one; the old one will pull the new one down You can get Electric Hook Ups at most 5 van sites now Other wise What is in a name. Manufacturers will put your ame on the outside if you buy sufficient to make it worthwile - Who makes the Halfords batteries - Not Halfords Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 If you want extra capacity buy two 6 volt batteries and connect them in series. This ensures that they always share the charging and discharging. I use two 6 volt Chloride Powersafe Deep Cycle Battery Backup batteries type 3VB17. (They were given to me.) 120 AH at the 3 hour rate and 160 AH at the 8 hour rate. But these new would cost hundreds of pounds new. If I had to purchase it would be a couple of 6 volt lorry batteries most likely, assuming they were cheaper. Quality batteries - go for well known brands like Chloride, Varta, Hoppeka, Oldham, Deta. Budget batteries are fine for a short while. The guarantee on a battery is normally a good indication of its life expectancy. Wet electrolyte batteries will pound for pound provide more useable capacity and longer life than gel batteries. They will also be best suited to the charging regime of a vehicle alternator which will be matched to the starter battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neal Farrow Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Brian For shear capacity and longevity, if you can fit two batteries in you should go for 6V golf cart batteries wired in series to give 12V output. These are expensive but are reputed to last many times longer than 12V leisure batteries. With regard to capacity, you can get bigger than 110Ahr but, above this size, the battery's physical size increases a fair bit, requiring more room. Beware of anyone telling you that a "regular" sized battery is greater than 110Ahr. Very unlikely in reality. I'm sure Clive will be along shortly for excellent advice. He knows so much about batteries he's known as Torchy (the battery boy!) Regards Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Docted Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Brian if you are doing as much driving as indicated I would not think you would find it nescessary to have an additional leisure battery.The one you have at present would suffice,unless of course it is reaching the end of its working life. You are travelling about the UK so you will never be too far from "civilisation" more commonly known as Halfords. Good luck with your journey Docted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 It might be worth visiting Elecsol's website (www.elecsol.com) - even if you don't buy an Elecsol battery, the information on the site is useful. Elecsol's warranty is 5 years for leisure-vehicle/marine applications or 3 years if the battery is used for engine-starting. One of my French leisure catalogues advertises Hoppecke batteries up to 225Ah. The biggest weighs 64kg and cost Euro 351 (in 2004), but all of them came with a paltry 12 months guarantee. Can't say I'd opt for linking two 6V batteries in series unless I could be absolutely certain I'd always be looking over Malcolm Mechanic's shoulder should the 'caravan' electrical-side of my motorhome needed work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted February 28, 2005 Share Posted February 28, 2005 Linking two 6 volt batteries in series requires one extra cable. Linking two 12 volt batteries in parallel requires two extra cables. Come on Derek, If you cannot work that one out you shouldnt be giving technical advise on sparky matters! I wouldn,t purchase an Elecsol battery either. If they were that good they would be used universally and I only ever see them at caravan rallies, never on a fourcourt or Halfords or Motor factors. hence I am suspicuous of their claims. The guarantee on batteries is also related to the price you pay for them. Hoppeke batteries are used by many European motor manufactures (like Mercedes for example) as OEM. Most people think about more battery capacity when they already have an existing battery and want to add another. If you want to replace the existing then connecting two 6 volt units in series is the best way to go. I liked the idea of golf cart batteries, these would also be deep cycle batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Clive: Now I know it's getting harder to concentrate as each day flashes by and the number of "little grey cells" in the old brain-box diminishes, but you should be aware by now that I try to be careful with our mother tongue. Obviously I know that connecting two 6V batteries in series requires one cable (I'd hardly need to be an Einstein to work that out!): however, my comment (Got that - "comment", not "advice.") was based on personal opinion not on the technical niceties of multiple battery connection. My point (a mild attempt at humour that, with hindsight, I should have anticipated would be abortive) was based on many years of experience that, if you expose people who think they know everything about their speciality to something unusual there's a high possibility they'll screw up. (Owners of old sports-cars with fly-off handbrakes will be aware of the potential traumas involved should an "unsupervised" MOT-tester gets his hands on their cherished vehicle.) So my comment had nothing to do with whether 2 x 6V batteries were 'better' than one big 12V or 2 x 12V or 3 x 12V, just that, if your motorhome has been converted from a 12V to a '6V' (note the quotes) leisure-battery system, and that system needs attention, then it would be wise to forewarn and oversee the person who will be carrying out the work. It's also worth highlighting that, for a 12V system based on 2 x 6V batteries to function, both batteries need to be operational. Should either of the 6V batteries fail you can't revert to a single-battery arrangement - and the chances of finding a hulking great expensive 6V replacement battery at Halfords in the UK, or a roadside garage forecourt in Continental Europe are, realistically, nil. (Come on Clive, surely, having donned your Expert hat, you shouldn't have overlooked this potential drawback, or are you implying that 6V batteries never develop faults?) Regarding guarantees, if Hoppecke batteries only carry a 12 months warranty they ought to be cheap, but my French catalogue quotes the equivalent of £103 for a 95Ah Hoppeke leisure-battery. And, if we're getting down and dirty, I hardly think your 'advice' on why you wouldn't buy an Elecsol battery ("If they were that good they would be used universally and I only ever see them at caravan rallies") would earn you an A-Grade in a sparky technical exam. I could easily reverse that rationale and recommend that one buy Piat d'Or wine as it must be wonderful because it's sold pretty much everywhere in this country. I don't think too many wine-lovers would agree with that advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest patrick winks Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 worst case scenario. With 2x12v batteries if a cell fails you still have 12v electrics, with 2 6v batteries and a cell fails things go black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Wrong, If a cell fails (short circuit) and lowers the terminal voltage of one battery it will also flatten the other parallel connected one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Docted Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Brian As some people seem to be getting away from your point I just thought that I would remind you. I still stand by what I said, what you have is anple for your needs. Good luck Docted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neal Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 I've tasted Piat d'Or wine (regretably) and I thought it was like battery acid (only worse!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Don't be unkind to battery acid. I HAVE tasted it (when a battery exploded under very fast charge!) Its best diluted with lots of water and milk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Jones Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Have a look at this list of FAQs here http://www.sterling-power.com/htm/faqmain.htm interesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest C;live Posted March 1, 2005 Share Posted March 1, 2005 Some of the answers to FAQ,s on this web site are opinion and not fact and should be challenged. But I do agree that a wet cell battery will provide the best value per ampere hour but will also require the most maintenance. If you change your charging system to that offered on this web site then the amount of topping up required will increase. Also the battery voltage will rise above 14 volts during the final phases of charging. The experience of all vehicle manufacturers has combined to not take vehicle batteries above this critical gassing voltage for these reasons. If the battery is disconnected from its use and charged and maintained seperately (like a milk float or fork lift truck battery) then different charging regimes are appropriate as well as automated topping up. But for a car or motorhome I am far from convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Posted March 2, 2005 Share Posted March 2, 2005 You do not say when your Hymer was manufactured. Is it fitted with a gel battery (most of them are)? If you add a second battery it must also be a gel type. Importers (Hymer and Brownhills) say that you must only use the gel type as origionally fitted.(Expensive) However, the manufacturer(Schaudt)of the Electroblock EBL 100 charging/distribution unit fitted to most recent Hymers has written to me and state that their charging unit is capable of working with either gel or liquid lead acid batteries to no detriment of either the batteries or their unit. To change battery types the charging rate must be changed. To do this a small sliding switch marked Batterie-Wahl on the unit has to be moved to the type being used. They do stress that battery types must not be mixed ie use two gel or two liquid lead acid batteries. The latter will need venting through the floor with the venting being done through a small flexible plastic tube. Your charging unit is located under the small storage unit on the offside of the vehicle.If it is made by Schaudt the can be contacted at www.schaudt-gmbh.de Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Peffers Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Hi folks, I have following various battery threads on the forum and have gone through the archive quite extensively. There seems to be many misconceptions flying around. Most obvious are the various errors regarding gel batteries. Let us get this clear. A Gel Battery is a Sealed Lead Acid battery - which ALSO has silica gel added to the electrolyte. So please get this right – while a Gel Battery is an SLA, (Sealed Lead Acid), battery not ALL SLAs are Gel Batteries. BTW: there is no such thing as a true sealed lead acid battery. They have a safety valve fitted. There have been several advances in recent years in battery construction and even more in the best and proper way to charge them. Put simply, if a few extra quid are spent to provide the optimum charger for any lead acid battery then that charger will have several distinct phases if it does the job right. Let’s knock another myth on the head shall we? If any lead acid battery actually gasses then that battery is NOT being properly charged. The gasses given off are actually, in certain sealed types of battery, recombined back into water and returned to the electrolyte to stop the battery meeting an untimely end by drying out. It really is not a good thing to cause a battery to gas. Myth number 2: “Wet batteries are better than Gel Batteries because Gel batteries do not last as long”. The truth is that Gel batteries will actually outlast their normally vented equivalents provided they are properly charged for the very reason the unsealed wet battery remains an unsealed battery is a compromise to allow for overcharging abuses and then topping up. However, gel batteries require very special charging and neither a normal car charger nor an inboard motor-home's hook-up charger can do the job. Neither can an unmodified alternator’s regulated output. Gel batteries must not be either overcharged or undercharged. The only chargers that can really do the job are purpose built for the job. Alternators also must have a Gel ready regulated output. On the good side, there are several fairly cheap IC, (integrated circuit), based charger circuits around that can do the job very well. I'm working on several such circuits just now to evaluate them for use in tandem with my spanking new AS Trooper’s charging system. Unfortunately I have the added problem that the gel batteries I wish to charge are actually for my electric mobility scooter type vehicle. They are used on the buggy as 2X12 volt batteries connected in series to drive the 24 volt buggy motor. A basic charging regulator is easy to build but most need to have an input voltage greater than the basic 12 - 14 volt alternator output. The 24 volt problem is not insurmountable and there are ways to boost the normal alternator’s output within the gel battery charging circuit. When I reach a conclusion I will try to make it available to others as I’m sure there are lots of buggy/wheelchair users who use motor-homes and caravans. There are also quite a few electric bike users in the motor-home fraternity. Aefauldlie, (Scots for honestly), Frae Auld bob Peffers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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