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Wiring for fog lights


g7eor

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I want to fit fog lights on my Ducato based Autotrail V-Line. I have purchased a switch to plug into dash . There are a lot of loose connectors around the fuse box and behind the dash but I cannot find any connectors in the engine bay that could be fog lights. I cannot find any wiring diagrams.
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g7eor,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Please see sticky entitled "ALL FORUM MEMBERS - PLEASE READ"

 

More specifically which version of the Ducato is you base vehicle?

 

After 12 years of owning my 2006 x244 2.8JTD during which time I would have used front fog lamps once, I decided that the circular recesses in the front fairing would be better filled with DRLs. I used the existing foglamp wiring with a minor modification.

 

The pre-existing lamp connectors were attached to dummy plugs integral to the fairing adjacent to the lamp recesses.

 

Alan

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Strange but true, to use my rear fog lights, I have to switch on my front fog lights. That's not unusual!

 

What is, I have no front fog lamps fitted ! Just a front fog light switch.

 

Also, my guess is that fitting fog light lamps would mean an ecu change as the scanbus would register a fault and show a dash light warning.

 

Rgds

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tonyishuk - 2019-08-10 7:43 AM

 

Also, my guess is that fitting fog light lamps would mean an ecu change as the scanbus would register a fault and show a dash light warning.

 

Rgds

 

...I am pretty sure that, for X250/X290 models, even if the factory-fit wiring is present, that it would need the fog lights to be enabled within the body computer, and then a "proxi align" carried out, before it would function..

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My understanding is that all Auto-Trail V-line models would be based on a Ducato X250 chassis (2006-2014) or X290 chassis (2014 onwards) but it might be useful to know when g7eor’s motorhome was built.

 

When I ordered my Rapido motorhome (based on a 2015 Ducato X290) I chose not to specify the front fog-lights that were an option, but I’ve always wished I had as the cost would not have been huge and retrofitting the lights has unknowns.

 

My Ducato has dashboard switching for front fog-lights and a vehicle-specification print-out provided by a Fiat Professional agent indicates that it has Option 4NF - CONFIGURATION FOR FOG LIGHTS. However it does not have the ‘access hatches' in the front wheel arches that allow a fog-light bulb to be changed.

 

It is possible to obtain complete kits (sourced from Germany) comprising OE Fiat parts for retrofitting front fog-lights to X250 or X290 Ducatos and these kits include additional wiring harnesses to connect to the vehicle’s existing loom.

 

This 2015 Fiat Forum thread refers

 

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/357608-2013-ducato-180-front-fog-lights.html

 

and the following advice is provided

 

“...If it is a Euro5 ducato the wiring looms are already in place and you should be able to fit the foglights but they must be original fiat parts and you will have to buy the switch. The ECU will pick them up when used for the first time. On the Euro 4 ducato (ie 08) you cannot fit the fog lights as there is no wiring loom. All these cheap fog lights & DRLs you see on ebay will not work...”

 

I did ask the Fiat Professional agent if "The ECU will pick them up when used for the first time” was likely to be the case with my Ducato, or whether a Proxy Alignment (as mentioned by Robinhood) might also be required, but, as the agent had not encountered anyone who carried out this retrofitting exercise, he couldn’t be certain what would happen.

 

What I wanted the lights for was not to use them in foggy weather but to illuminate the verges of rural roads while driving abroad at night. As I wasn’t confident they would be do this successfully, I decided to put the idea on the back-burner and, if I ever revisited it, to fit LED light-units and dedicated wiring that did not involve the Fiat loom.

 

 

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A pet hate of mine is blanked off switches and light pods, so when I bought this M/H I also bought a cheapo pair of fog lights from Ebay for not very much and the dealer fitted them for me though they're not wired in. TBH when the weather's bad enough to need foglights, I'm parked up or at home and as another poster said, I've not needed them in the 21/2 years I've owned the van. But they do make the front look better IMHO
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Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-10 8:54 AM

 

I did ask the Fiat Professional agent if "The ECU will pick them up when used for the first time” was likely to be the case with my Ducato, or whether a Proxy Alignment (as mentioned by Robinhood) might also be required, but, as the agent had not encountered anyone who carried out this retrofitting exercise, he couldn’t be certain what would happen.

 

If the option as you described is present, but without fog lights having been factory fitted, the option to activate them should be present in the body computer, but not enabled. You have to connect to the body computer with diagnostic software, firstly activate the fog light option, then carry out a proxy alignment.

 

All the proxy alignment actually does is to copy the current configuration of the body computer to the other network nodes that retain copies of it and confirm that the network has been reconfigured successfully by reference to the physical equipment it detects on the vehicle.

 

To answer the OPs question, it would be easier to install a traditional wiring circuit taken from an ignition controlled circuit at the fuse box, unless you are certain that you have the fog light option on the vehicle.

 

I would also add that in my experience the factory configuration list may not be accurate. According to Fiat's specification list for my van, I have rain sensing wipers and seat side airbags. Neither of those options are fitted to my van and the ability to enable the wiper control is not present in the body computer either. As I didn't order them though, it's not something that I'm worried about!

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Many thanks for all the replies My V-Line is a 2019 model From what I read I don't think I will bother trying to use the correct switch I will just fit an add on switch on the dash. I would still like to know what all the loose connectors behind the dash are for.
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g7eor - 2019-08-11 1:35 PM

 

Many thanks for all the replies My V-Line is a 2019 model From what I read I don't think I will bother trying to use the correct switch I will just fit an add on switch on the dash. I would still like to know what all the loose connectors behind the dash are for.

 

They are for connecting to various options or additional equipment that is not installed on your van. To a large extent the wiring is generic. You will normally find several loose connectors tucked up behind the fuse box/body computer for example. They are for connection to a Truck Upfitters Module which provides a standard interface for tachograph and fleet diagnostic connections. You will undoubtably find other loose connectors in the engine bay, behind the cab steps, under the seats and in various other places around the vehicle if you look hard enough.

 

The main thing from your foglight query point of view, is that even if you find connectors in the loom for the foglights, they don't work like a traditional wiring circuit. There is no physical circuit between the dashboard switch and the lights. They are interfaced through the body computer which controls the operation of many of the systems on the vehicle. The body computer sends network messages in response to switch actuations which are received by the relevant nodes located around the vehicle and the node for operating the lamps will activate them if it receives the appropriate signal.

 

That is why, unless you have the factory preparation, which includes the correct function having been included in the body computer configuration when it was manufactured, you are better off identifying an ignition controlled circuit that you can use to trigger your own lights via a relay.

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Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-10 8:54 AM

 

My understanding is that all Auto-Trail V-line models would be based on a Ducato X250 chassis (2006-2014) or X290 chassis (2014 onwards) but it might be useful to know when g7eor’s motorhome was built.

 

When I ordered my Rapido motorhome (based on a 2015 Ducato X290) I chose not to specify the front fog-lights that were an option, but I’ve always wished I had as the cost would not have been huge and retrofitting the lights has unknowns.

 

My Ducato has dashboard switching for front fog-lights and a vehicle-specification print-out provided by a Fiat Professional agent indicates that it has Option 4NF - CONFIGURATION FOR FOG LIGHTS. However it does not have the ‘access hatches' in the front wheel arches that allow a fog-light bulb to be changed.

 

It is possible to obtain complete kits (sourced from Germany) comprising OE Fiat parts for retrofitting front fog-lights to X250 or X290 Ducatos and these kits include additional wiring harnesses to connect to the vehicle’s existing loom.

 

This 2015 Fiat Forum thread refers

 

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/357608-2013-ducato-180-front-fog-lights.html

 

and the following advice is provided

 

“...If it is a Euro5 ducato the wiring looms are already in place and you should be able to fit the foglights but they must be original fiat parts and you will have to buy the switch. The ECU will pick them up when used for the first time. On the Euro 4 ducato (ie 08) you cannot fit the fog lights as there is no wiring loom. All these cheap fog lights & DRLs you see on ebay will not work...”

 

I did ask the Fiat Professional agent if "The ECU will pick them up when used for the first time” was likely to be the case with my Ducato, or whether a Proxy Alignment (as mentioned by Robinhood) might also be required, but, as the agent had not encountered anyone who carried out this retrofitting exercise, he couldn’t be certain what would happen.

 

What I wanted the lights for was not to use them in foggy weather but to illuminate the verges of rural roads while driving abroad at night. As I wasn’t confident they would be do this successfully, I decided to put the idea on the back-burner and, if I ever revisited it, to fit LED light-units and dedicated wiring that did not involve the Fiat loom.

 

If they're not for fog then driving lamps would be better as they would turn off when the headlamps are dipped, driving in good visibility with front foglamps on can attract a £50 fixed penalty.

 

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Paul- - 2019-08-11 8:36 PM

 

If they're not for fog then driving lamps would be better as they would turn off when the headlamps are dipped, driving in good visibility with front foglamps on can attract a £50 fixed penalty.

 

The regulations relating to fog-lamp usage differ in France (where I motorcaravan) from the UK’s, so the potential £50 fixed penalty would have been no disincentive. As far as I’m aware 'driving-light’ units are not available to directly replace the removable round discs (designed to take OE fog-lamps) in a Ducato X290 bumper. Besides which I wasn’t interested in a ‘long’ beam pattern, but a flat-topped pattern of the type a fog-lamp produces that could be aimed to the right to illuminate the verge of a French rural road.

 

There is advice/discussion on German forums about fitting fog-lamps to Ducato X290s and the rule-of-thumb seems to be that, if the vehicle originally has a single fog-lamp switch (1st image below) it won’t have been prepared for fog-lamps and there will be no under-bonnet cabling for them, but if it originally has two fog-lamp switches (2nd image below) there should be under-bonnet cabling to connect to the extension harnesses used with the Fiat OE fog-lamps.

1000779908_Oneswitch.png.f657a06b4fec46b8fbd22407b72b9c92.png

617678650_Twoswitches.png.ae30f0a6a5f04a903311b467b65253b9.png

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Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-12 7:29 AM

The regulations relating to fog-lamp usage differ in France (where I motorcaravan) from the UK’s, so the potential £50 fixed penalty would have been no disincentive. As far as I’m aware 'driving-light’ units are not available to directly replace the removable round discs (designed to take OE fog-lamps) in a Ducato X290 bumper. Besides which I wasn’t interested in a ‘long’ beam pattern, but a flat-topped pattern of the type a fog-lamp produces that could be aimed to the right to illuminate the verge of a French rural road.

 

Interestingly, wanting to illuminate the verge is one of the most common explanations (excuses) given to me by many drivers that I stopped for misusing fog lamps!

 

I can understand what you are saying Derek, and appreciate your reasoning to an extent in a vehicle being driven on the right with left dipping headlamps, but for drivers in this country I have to confess as an advanced professional driver, I could never understand it. The beam produced by fog lamps is such that I can count one hand the number of times it has been genuinely useful in fog in over 45 years of driving experience, and really if you are needing to illuminate the verge within the range of a correctly aligned fog lamp beam you are either driving not much above walking pace or, a common fault amongst many drivers, failing to look far enough ahead to anticipate and deal with hazards before you are too close to them.

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