charleydog Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 We are going to have a second look at a Warwick XL PVC which has an auto gearbox. Never having had any experience with this setup, can anybody give me a heads up i.e are they reliable,good to use e.t.c. Apparently these are a rare beast ,and are a £2000 addition to the price.We are hoping to do a deal to reduce this premium, but if we don't is it still worth having for the long term. Thanks anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 We have a Vantage Neo with the auto gearbox and so far in 5 years it has given us no problems. I really like it and would not have a manual gearbox but it does have a few minor idiosyncrasies that you should be aware of. For 90% of the time it performs brilliantly, changing gear smoothly and making the whole driving process smooth and relaxing. When you move off from at a junction the change from 1st to 2nd is a bit slow but the trick is to not slam the accelerator down in 1st order to try and get away quickly but to accelerate a little more gently and let the box change up into 2nd then go for it. I have never actually found this to be a problem as I never find the need to get away so quickly. If, in getting into traffic, I am a bit slow getting away and hold up the guy behind for a bit so be it, I’m not bothered - HGVs do this all the time and people should anticipate large vehicles being slower off the mark. The other issue you need to be aware of is that when going uphill the box may change down a little bit later than ideal by which time too much speed has been lost so the box drops a couple of gears, get up to speed again then changes up too early, bogs down again and so on. You can overcome this by pushing the Up button which tells the box that the van is on a hilly road and it will change down sooner and hold onto lower gears a bit longer. Or, you can override the auto function and change gear manually by pushing the gearstick. This is what I do as I feel it gives more control on roads that are winding and hilly. I can manually change down before the van loses too much speed then keep the lower gear until I’m sure the van won’t bog down if I change up. Honestly, this is not a problem and even with a full torque converter box, such as that on my Volvo V90, I will still use manual mode on steep hills to give me more engine braking control. Having the auto gearbox is the one thing up front that gives me a feeling that I am driving a nice leisure vehicle and not a builders van due to the fact that it makes the van so much more relaxing and smooth to drive. Some people will say that the cost is not worth it, given that it is not perfect but it costs what it costs and I really like the auto so I think it is worth it but each to their own. I would not be interested in someone’s opinion if they had never had a van with auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adiebt Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I’ve never owned a vehicle with an auto but whenever I’ve driven one ( last one was a Lotus Evora with an ISP box , sublime ) I’ve always been v impressed , when the time comes to get a new van ( and if auto was an option) I’d definitely get one . Good luck with your prospective purchase . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 charleydog - 2019-08-12 7:46 AM We are going to have a second look at a Warwick XL PVC which has an auto gearbox. Never having had any experience with this setup, can anybody give me a heads up i.e are they reliable,good to use e.t.c. Apparently these are a rare beast ,and are a £2000 addition to the price.We are hoping to do a deal to reduce this premium, but if we don't is it still worth having for the long term. Thanks anybody. The Warwick XL model would normally be built on a Peugeot Boxer base with manual transmission only, but in order to provide a non-manual transmission Auto-Sleepers used a Fiat Ducato base instead with (historically) a 6-speed “ComfortMatic” automated-manual gearbox. Various types of automated transmission are described here http://blog.greenflag.com/2017/automatic-gearbox-dsg-cvt/ The ComfortMatic transmission itself seems to have been reasonably reliable and, when there have been problems, these have usually related to the ‘control’ mechanisms and/or difficulties in accurately diagnosing the fault and fixing it. ComfortMatic is not a nice thing (no automated-manual transmission is) and for the 2020 Model-Year Ducato will be ditched and replaced by a ’traditional’ torque-converter 9-speed automatic gearbox. But if you want/need two-pedal driving on earlier Ducatos, you have to have ComfortMatic and learn to love (or at least tolerate) its inadequacies and idiosyncracies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 I do not agree with Derek that the Comfortmatic gearbox is “not a nice thing”. In my opinion it is a lovely thing, despite the fact that it is only 95% perfect, much like my lovely wife I suppose. In fact I believe my wife also thinks that I am a lovely thing, despite the fact that I am probably only 50% perfect, if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-12 8:53 AM ComfortMatic is not a nice thing (no automated-manual transmission is) and for the 2020 Model-Year Ducato will be ditched and replaced by a ’traditional’ torque-converter 9-speed automatic gearbox. But if you want/need two-pedal driving on earlier Ducatos, you have to have ComfortMatic and learn to love (or at least tolerate) its inadequacies and idiosyncracies. TBH, Derek, the Comfortmatic box appears to be a "marmite" thing. Don's championing of the box above is echoed by others, whereas there is a significant population in the opposite camp. Having recently driven a Comfortmatic equipped hire vehicle in NZ for four weeks, I'm (very) glad I didn't specify the option on the two Ducatos I've had on which it was available. (I could very easily have done so for my current van, where the equivalent "auto" version was also in stock, and, given the fact that both our cars are auto equipped, it received serious consideration). Even attempting to compensate for its shortcomings on hills (just where you would like a box to work nicely of its own volition) was frustrating. In contrast, the auto equipped MB 'van hired but 8 months before in NZ and used on similar roads was fine. Given the dichotomy of views, I would advise anyone considering a vehicle so equipped to ensure they get a test drive, particularly one involving steep, windy inclines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 In my opinion no auto gearbox is able to cope perfectly 100% of the time. My Volvo has an 8 speed ZF gearbox which functions brilliantly and my previous BMW 5 series had a similar box. Even so, when driving on hilly roads the box will not change down on a steep hill and will simply race down in a high gear to match the speed. In order to retain more control it is necessary to switch over to manual and select a lower gear to save the brakes. Also, on very winding roads the box can be changing up or down in the middle of bends when I might want to keep to a lower gear for more control, especially if I am pressing on. The gearbox does not know what is coming up and even though a ZF type box can react quicker than a Comfortmatic box it is still not 100% perfect. That is why auto gearboxes have always had a facility to manually select the gears. The only issue with the Comfortmatic box is that it is a bit slow witted at times so you need to take over but it is so easy to do and it is only on winding hilly roads that this is an issue and a minor one at that. There is no clutch to operate of course so changing gears manually is a doddle. I can’t quite understand why people say it is a real problem having to intervene manually from time to time when they are comparing it to a manual when you have to intervene manually, with a clutch, all of the time. I can, however, appreciate that some people might not think it is worth paying £1500 - £2000 for Comfortmatic but that is personal preference. If you really need or want an auto function then I can’t see you having a problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Don636 - 2019-08-12 9:38 AM In my opinion no auto gearbox is able to cope perfectly 100% of the time. My Volvo has an 8 speed ZF gearbox which functions brilliantly and my previous BMW 5 series had a similar box. Even so, when driving on hilly roads the box will not change down on a steep hill and will simply race down in a high gear to match the speed. In order to retain more control it is necessary to switch over to manual and select a lower gear to save the brakes. Also, on very winding roads the box can be changing up or down in the middle of bends when I might want to keep to a lower gear for more control, especially if I am pressing on. You should try the VW/Audi/Skoda DSG box which always seems to be in the right gear. The computer preselects the second set depending on what it expects to come up, but if that is wrong it corrects in a few hundredths of a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebeaches Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 For what it is worth, we are very fond of the comfortmatic gearbox on the 2016 Fiat Ducato pvc we've owned from new. We first experienced a similar type of gearbox in my wife's Citroen C3 back in 2006 - the motoring journalists hated it, but worked fine for us and one of our sons is still happily running around in the same vehicle now! We have a modern Jag with an all singing all dancing 8-speed gearbox, and a Mercedes Benz C-Class auto before that. But frankly we're just as happy with the comfortmatic set-up on the van as the torque converter box on the car. Up until five or six years ago we only had vehicles with manual gearbox, through preference - to be in full control and tune with the engine at all times. But we've reached a stage where an automatic gearbox is much preferable and much more relaxing to drive - especially the van. And we'd be happy to have another comfortmatic. All autos throw the occasional hiccup, when selecting the right gear for the job. We wouldn't consider a camper without an auto box now, whatever type it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Sorry I I have driven a car with the VW DSG box and you still need to manually select a lower gear going down long steep hills in order to maintain full control with engine braking and again on winding roads I liked taking manual control for better control and traction out of bends when really pressing on. Auto is fine if you are just pootling along but keen drivers tend to prefer some sort of manual control over the gears as no gearbox can read the road ahead and may change up approaching a series of bends when you want to stay in a lower gear for better acceleration. Unless of course you can get your hands on one of the newer cars where the auto box is linked to the satnav which can read the road ahead. My Mazda MX5 is manual and I would definitely not want an auto one as it is a sports car, not a pootling about car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charleydog Posted August 12, 2019 Author Share Posted August 12, 2019 Thanks Don 636 for your detailed opinion.And others for your input. So if the deals right, we'll go for it :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 Don636 - 2019-08-12 2:54 PM Sorry I I have driven a car with the VW DSG box and you still need to manually select a lower gear going down long steep hills in order to maintain full control with engine braking and again on winding roads Strange, I've had two now and they both change down when going down hills. If you want to drop a gear for bends a quick dab on the throttle does the trick. But leaving all that aside I reckon it is a far better gearbox than the robotised, or the torque converter boxes that I have driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don636 Posted August 12, 2019 Share Posted August 12, 2019 My experience of the DSG box is that you need to brake going downhill and the box will engage a lower gear and that if you accelerate it will effectively coast and pick up speed. What I prefer to do is manually engage a lower gear before going downhill so that the speed can be kept under control without braking if possible. There is also a well reported problem with the DSG box having problems during low speed manoeuvring with jerky takeoff including moving off from rest to join the traffic flow, say at a roundabout. This might only be with certain engines though - not sure. This is the same issue noted for the Comfortmatic gearbox. The DSG box is, however, considered to be excellent once on the move. The point I am making is that no gearbox is perfect under all conditions and some manual intervention may be required. Some people just don’t like auto boxes of any kind and that is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Things may have moved on, I have been with VAG DSG for 10 years and noticed an improvement in pulling away into traffic when I changed cars 3 years ago. But they both shifted down for hills if there is no throttle, it doesn't need any braking. Where we are at present there are lots of nice winding roads, as recommended by bikers, and when I am by myself I enjoy a bit of press-on motoring. I find that the gear box reacts so fast and well to what is needed that there is no need for the manual shift and I only use it occasionally in very particular situations. Apart from all that, one enormous advantage is that it is perfect for creeping forward in traffic queues because you to do that simply by lifting off the brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Charleydog, The answer is ... with all vehicles ... drivers ... and gear boxes ... they're all different. So many people think they should perform in set ways and they never do, plus road and traffic conditions and of course not forgetting the weather. If you consider yourself adaptable (and free thinking) then you'll manage it well but if you're a die hard and fixated individual then forget the whole idea. You may even have to vary your driving daily along with your own individual moods. For me every day is different and the key to 'smart' living is matching what you're presented with, it never fails which is why I'm now in a high age bracket and aiming for the next one. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Muswell - 2019-08-13 7:44 AM Apart from all that, one enormous advantage is that it is perfect for creeping forward in traffic queues because you to do that simply by lifting off the brake. And blinding the poor driver sitting behind you in the intervening stationary moments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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