fiat ducato 2.8 2005 vintage immobiliser fault

[snail]

Hi guys,

 

unlucky to have this fault light on in spain at the moment, tried all sorts to get it going with no avail, had to call for help, recovery truck arrived, explained fault, mechanic got in and it bloody started! been trying for an hour an half with differant keys etc!

 

so he tells me that sometimes the frequency used can be interupted by local police or emergency services radio etc, so can this be true? or should i go to a fiat dealer to have it checked out?

 

anyone have any similar troubles? can it be disconnected? in my handbook there is a procedure but only for petrol engines?

 

we are away till april so would like some peace of mind really

 

thanks snail

[wints]

snail - 2012-11-07 6:34 PM

 

Hi guys,

 

unlucky to have this fault light on in spain at the moment, tried all sorts to get it going with no avail, had to call for help, recovery truck arrived, explained fault, mechanic got in and it bloody started! been trying for an hour an half with differant keys etc!

 

so he tells me that sometimes the frequency used can be interupted by local police or emergency services radio etc, so can this be true? or should i go to a fiat dealer to have it checked out?

 

anyone have any similar troubles? can it be disconnected? in my handbook there is a procedure but only for petrol engines?

 

we are away till april so would like some peace of mind really

 

thanks snail

 

We had similar occurance on our way back north through France last month....2004 Hymer fiat 2.8 JTD, immobiliser lock symbol on dash lit, engine would turn over but not start. Tried 2nd key, no joy...waited a while, still nothing.

Checked fiat handbook and saw emergency start procedure, but apparently only for petrol engines!!

Thought 'I'll try it anyway'... And it worked!!

Had to use this procedure later the same day. Day after all was ok, and it has been since.

 

I too would like to remove this immobiliser ( I've got a Cat 1 alarm / immoliser as well) but several auto electrical & diesel specialists in my area said that was not possible.

Anyone know any different ?

 

regards

Allen

 

[hallii]

Strong local radio frequency signals can "block" the immobiliser receiver with the results you have experienced.

 

They are much better than they were but there is still the odd problem.

 

Radio signals are everywhere sometimes they are very strong and the immobiliser circuitry has to be very well screened and "bypassed" to prevent this problem.

 

In extreme cases towing the vehicle to a different location is the only way to sort it.

 

Rarely are the signals on permanantly so sometimes just waiting for a few minutes will sort things out.

 

H

[Mickt]

Had the same problem in France, called breakdown trucks then after a while it started. At the time i was next to a railway line , lots of overhead cables and also next to a boating marina , lots of radio signals.

I beleive this caused the problem. At the time Dave Newell came on and suggested i spoke to Strikeback

Alarms as they may be able to disconnect the immobilser.Never got arround to this as so far it,s been ok

[euroserv]

Hello,

 

Since 2002 the immobiliser on the Ducato (and Boxer/Relay) is incorporated into the ECU and cannot be disabled permanently.

 

There are a number of theories as to why intermittent faults happen but they are very rare. None of my vans 2002 to 2006 EVER had a problem that needed sorting out and that was about 40 vehicles!

 

The transponder key is detected by a sensor that is around the ignition barrel, and since the proximity of the key to this is very critical and won't work more than about half an inch away from it I would suggest that external interference is unlikely. Not impossible but very unlikely.

 

Keys do not respond well to being dropped, and this has been considered the most likely cause of the problem in the past.

 

The emergency start procedure is for Diesels too and requires that you are in possession of the 5 digit immobiliser code. Most vehicles registered in the UK will not have been handed over with the code and there are valid security reasons for that. The dealer that registered it may not even have it but can apply for it. I would recommend that anyone that regularly leaves the UK should obtain their code as a precautionary measure so that if the worst happens you are not stranded.

 

You may have to go to some trouble to establish your right as an owner to have it but it is a part of your vehicle and I think you should. You also need this code if you have any new keys supplied so that they can be programmed to the vehicle.

 

If your vehicle is UK supplied it should be on the ISR (International Security Register) and the contact details for them are in your Fiat document pack. If you call them and they have the details you need you should be able to get it from them once you have been through their security process.

 

For the record, we insisted on immobiliser codes being supplied at delivery with all of our new vans as a condition of the purchase and the dealer had to apply to Fiat for them but it was done.

 

Nick

 

PS. It could be worse..... Iveco Daily vehicles sometimes just 'forget' their central locking and immobiliser codes. The keys are fine, just the vehicle gets amnesia!

[laimeduck]

euroserv - 2012-11-08 11:15 AMHello,Since 2002 the immobiliser on the Ducato (and Boxer/Relay) is incorporated into the ECU and cannot be disabled permanently.......................  The transponder key is detected by a sensor that is around the ignition barrel, and since the proximity of the key to this is very critical and won't work more than about half an inch away from it I would suggest that external interference is unlikely. Not impossible but very unlikely.Keys do not respond well to being dropped, and this has been considered the most likely cause of the problem in the past.The emergency start procedure is for Diesels too and requires that you are in possession of the 5 digit immobiliser code.

Nick that's really useful information - Thanks

I have a credit sized card in my documentation which lists a 5 figure "Key Code" and a 7 digit Mechanical code. (2004 build Ducato 2.8JTD)

Would the key code be the immobiliser code you mention?

The credit card has a picture of a key next to the 5 figure code

 

[Minstrel]

We have had the same problem with our 2002 2.8 ducato.  We went to the local Fiat garage, the part was duly changed with no benefit at all.

 

Having lived for 3 or 4 years with the intermittent problem, once within a minute of being towed off the ferry, I'd like to offer some advice.

 

In our opinion, the problem is caused by the poor quality connectors that Fiat use.  When you're travelling on bumpy roads, (usually on the continent) this may well loosen the connector enough for the engine not to start.  Chris keeps a screwdriver in the cab now and if necessary, he unscrews the cover behind the steering wheel and gives the unit a good waggle, usually does the trick.

 

Incidentally, when we first had the problem, we found somewhere on a forum that there is an ambulance service in the south of England that always have their immobilisers removed before going into service.

[Wooie]

laimeduck - 2012-11-08 5:08 PM

euroserv - 2012-11-08 11:15 AMHello,Since 2002 the immobiliser on the Ducato (and Boxer/Relay) is incorporated into the ECU and cannot be disabled permanently.......................  The transponder key is detected by a sensor that is around the ignition barrel, and since the proximity of the key to this is very critical and won't work more than about half an inch away from it I would suggest that external interference is unlikely. Not impossible but very unlikely.Keys do not respond well to being dropped, and this has been considered the most likely cause of the problem in the past.The emergency start procedure is for Diesels too and requires that you are in possession of the 5 digit immobiliser code.

Nick that's really useful information - Thanks

I have a credit sized card in my documentation which lists a 5 figure "Key Code" and a 7 digit Mechanical code. (2004 build Ducato 2.8JTD)

Would the key code be the immobiliser code you mention?

The credit card has a picture of a key next to the 5 figure code

 

I hope so as well, just checked my documents and i have the " Blue Code Card " as well.Compass Castaway on a Boxer 2.8 HDI 2006 Good God !!........they might have got something right ........LOL2 codes on it , Electronic Code....5 digits, and a Mechanical Code.....7 digits..letters and numbers.I shall wait eagerly to see your answer.

[euroserv]

Yes folks, this is correct.

 

The 5 digit number is your immobiliser code and can be used to defeat the immobiliser in an 'emergency start' procedure.

 

Be careful not to leave this card in your vehicle though! Not going to explain more because it should be fairly obvious!

 

Nick

[wints]

Wooie - 2012-11-08 9:29 PM

 

I hope so as well, just checked my documents and i have the " Blue Code Card " as well.

 

Compass Castaway on a Boxer 2.8 HDI 2006

 

Good God !!........they might have got something right ........LOL

 

2 codes on it , Electronic Code....5 digits, and a Mechanical Code.....7 digits..letters and numbers.

 

I shall wait eagerly to see your answer.

 

The electronic code 5 digits is definetly for the emergency start procedure.

In the Fiat handbook (always keep it in the van thank goodness) it says the emergency start is for petrol engines only, but it's not true, I've used it on my 2.8 JTD.

And if you are unfortunate enough to have to call on it be prepared for a long and frustrating wait, it took me about 20 minutes of switching on ignition, counting flashes on dash, flooring accelerator pedal etc....and then forgetting were I was up to !!

Also, when I got it started, the padlock light was still lit, as was the fuel injector problem light (shaped like a turbo). I thought I'd be in 'limp home mode' with that light on, as I'd experienced it before with fuel injector cables. But, all was ok.

I had to use the procedure again that day, probably only took 10 mins. That got me to the ferry for the night. The morning after, and ever since, it's been ok.

Another thought, I seem to remember Euroserve suggesting that If you've got a big bunch of keys hanging off the ignition key, a big yes in my case, then that's a possible cause. I've separated all mine now, only got the ign key and the cat 1 zapper on the same key ring.

 

The mechanical 7 digit code is for if you want a new key.

 

regards

 

Allen

 

[wints]

Minstrel - 2012-11-08 8:55 PMWe have had the same problem with our 2002 2.8 ducato.  We went to the local Fiat garage, the part was duly changed with no benefit at all.

 

Having lived for 3 or 4 years with the intermittent problem, once within a minute of being towed off the ferry, I'd like to offer some advice.

 

In our opinion, the problem is caused by the poor quality connectors that Fiat use.  When you're travelling on bumpy roads, (usually on the continent) this may well loosen the connector enough for the engine not to start.  Chris keeps a screwdriver in the cab now and if necessary, he unscrews the cover behind the steering wheel and gives the unit a good waggle, usually does the trick.

 

Incidentally, when we first had the problem, we found somewhere on a forum that there is an ambulance service in the south of England that always have their immobilisers removed before going into service.

Could you explain in a bit more detail the screwdriver / loose connections / waggling the unit etc.I'd like to cover all angles if it was to occur again.Is your van the Fiat 2.8 JTD ?thanksAllen

[wints]

On the subject of trying to immobilise the fiat immobiliser, I would've thought that it would be possible to access the software in the ecu and switch it off.

 

regards

Allen

[Wooie]

Thank You very much goes to both.... Nick and Allen.

 

I had been keeping it in the Manual Folder in it`s little pocket but i`ll take it out

and keep it somewhere else in the van nice and safe.

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

[wints]

Wooie - 2012-11-09 11:14 AM

 

Thank You very much goes to both.... Nick and Allen.

 

I had been keeping it in the Manual Folder in it`s little pocket but i`ll take it out

and keep it somewhere else in the van nice and safe.

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

 

Thanks Graham, but apart from the start procedure which I've obviously have personal experience of, all my info is 2nd hand off other forums, mainly (I think) the Fiat forum.

 

My credit card sized imm / mech codes are locked in the on board safe.

You need the handbook for the (complicated) start procedure.

 

regards

Allen

 

[Wooie]

wints - 2012-11-09 11:30 AM

 

Wooie - 2012-11-09 11:14 AM

 

Thank You very much goes to both.... Nick and Allen.

 

I had been keeping it in the Manual Folder in it`s little pocket but i`ll take it out

and keep it somewhere else in the van nice and safe.

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

 

Thanks Graham, but apart from the start procedure which I've obviously have personal experience of, all my info is 2nd hand off other forums, mainly (I think) the Fiat forum.

 

My credit card sized imm / mech codes are locked in the on board safe.

You need the handbook for the (complicated) start procedure.

 

regards

Allen

 

 

 

 

Thanks Allen i already keep the handbook along with all the other manuals / instructions in a carry case in the van.

 

What i meant to say was that i`ll separate the " Code Card " and keep that well hidden, nice and safe but still in the van.

 

Regards.

 

Graham.

[Minstrel]

I was wrong, about location of cover.  Chris is now dictating correct asnwer.

 

Underneath the steering wheel, on the steering column, the black cover can be unscrewed, 5 crosshead screws.  This will expose the yellow immobiliser unit, approx 100mm x 60mm x 20mm  (motorhome on the farm so can't look at exact measurements). At the underneath of the unit two small cables are connected to the yellow unit via connecting blocks. The smaller cable goes to the sensor below the ignition key barrel.  The larger one goes to the engine fuel injector (control unit we think).

 

Unclip blocks, slide the blocks up and down the connecting pins to remove any oxidisation on the surface of the metal. Then put it together and try to start the engine.

[BGD]

Interesting stuff.

 

Recently upgraded our MH from last century to this century...just, as it's a 2001....and we're now running with "Mr Ben", which is on a Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD chassis-cab.

 

 

We didn't get any base vehicle Ducato handbook with the MH.

So does anyone know if the "Emergency Start" procedure that you guys mention would also apply to a Ducato as venerable as our 2001 model, and if so, could anyone detail exactly what that procedure is please.

[wints]

BGD - 2012-11-09 5:38 PM

 

Interesting stuff.

 

Recently upgraded our MH from last century to this century...just, as it's a 2001....and we're now running with "Mr Ben", which is on a Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD chassis-cab.

 

 

We didn't get any base vehicle Ducato handbook with the MH.

So does anyone know if the "Emergency Start" procedure that you guys mention would also apply to a Ducato as venerable as our 2001 model, and if so, could anyone detail exactly what that procedure is please.

 

Hopefully here is the link for the 2.8JTD manual:-

 

http://www.fiatforum.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=141

 

I've just downloaded it just to confirm it works.

 

regards

Allen

[euroserv]

BGD - 2012-11-09 5:38 PM

 

Interesting stuff.

 

Recently upgraded our MH from last century to this century...just, as it's a 2001....and we're now running with "Mr Ben", which is on a Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD chassis-cab.

 

 

We didn't get any base vehicle Ducato handbook with the MH.

So does anyone know if the "Emergency Start" procedure that you guys mention would also apply to a Ducato as venerable as our 2001 model, and if so, could anyone detail exactly what that procedure is please.

 

Hello,

 

Vans built before 2002 have a different kind of immobiliser and this can be removed. Can't give details of how on here, but it can be done if you wish. The emergency start procedure does not work on these vehicles.

 

Nick

[BGD]

euroserv - 2012-11-12 11:01 AM

 

BGD - 2012-11-09 5:38 PM

 

Interesting stuff.

 

Recently upgraded our MH from last century to this century...just, as it's a 2001....and we're now running with "Mr Ben", which is on a Fiat Ducato 2.8 JTD chassis-cab.

 

 

We didn't get any base vehicle Ducato handbook with the MH.

So does anyone know if the "Emergency Start" procedure that you guys mention would also apply to a Ducato as venerable as our 2001 model, and if so, could anyone detail exactly what that procedure is please.

 

Hello,

 

Vans built before 2002 have a different kind of immobiliser and this can be removed. Can't give details of how on here, but it can be done if you wish. The emergency start procedure does not work on these vehicles.

 

Nick

 

 

 

Many thanks, as ever Nick, for your help and advice on these vehicles.

It's greatly appreciated.

[laimeduck]

euroserv - 2012-11-09 10:48 AMYes folks, this is correct.The 5 digit number is your immobiliser code and can be used to defeat the immobiliser in an 'emergency start' procedure.Be careful not to leave this card in your vehicle though! Not going to explain more because it should be fairly obvious!Nick

Nick ... Many thanks ... sorry for the late reply but I have been away a few days.

[snail]

thankyou very much for your answers, indeed i feel a bit more hopeful now, and it may of benefitted others as well by the sound of it, i do have the code card so will try next time it happens?

 

thanks again to all

 

brian

 

by the way 25k south of valencia it's been raining for 16 hours and our camp has 3 to 4 inches of standing water on it!

[AndyRolfe]

Thank you for this information. I avoided a breakdown in Slovenia with your help.

Incidentally, I happened to have some conductive silver paint (used for repairing printed circuit boards) which I carefully applied to the immobiliser connector contacts. So far, no reoccurrance of the problem.

 

[teccer1234]

as has been mentioned here some immoblisers can be removed my hymer 694 2.8 jtd 2001 had the same problem a few years ago in spain, never knew when it was going to happen next, horrible feeling, I think it happened about 10 times during our winter break, when I got home I booked it into a fiat garage, they removed the immobliser but said if the van was 1 more year older it couldn't be done,

[Alanb]

I think that this recent thread on the Fiat Forum is of interest. From it I infer that the ECU can be reprogrammed to allow the vehicle to run without recognising a key code.

 

Now how do I gain access to the emergency code for my 2006 x244?

 

I have read that the AA may be able to obtain it in an emergency, but l would like to be prepared for possible problems. I have also read that the code card is generally witheld in the UK, at the request of the Thatcham insurance centre.

 

Alan