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help identifying a wire


silverback

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Hello everyone, I was looking in the fuse box in the dash panel drivers side, cos i had an alarm problem, and i noticed a gray burnt out wire on the loom of about 20 wires, further inspection reveals it has burnt the wire sheath completely off back to where the wire disappears around the back of the fuse box, the pin on the board and connector also appear singed abit, does anyone know what this wire is? I have looked online for a wiring diagram but cannot find owt, no fuses have blown and i need to find out what caused this, the alarm company say that they do not use this wire for a conection

cheers jonathan

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That's going to be difficult. Obviously it's not fused which may indicate it wasn't put in by the manufacturer. Check the battery compartment and under the bonnet for heat damaged insulation. You could always snip it and see what goes off (it's knackered anyway)
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Hi Charles, no didn't smoke or smell, found it because the alarm wasn,t going off, but they deny it's owt to do with them, could snip it but that would be last to do if i don't get an idea of what it is for, did look under the bonnet from the bulkhead to the ecu things look ok but most of the wires were covered

Jonathan

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I would be wary of sniping it but you do need to follow it to find where it ends then disconnect battery and renew it. Apart from your alarm has there been any other addition to the electric system as some times using bridging fuses can overload the wiring
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Hi Jonathan,

 

You have not supplied the version number of your Ducato. Also you have not made it clear that the green multway connector is that connecting to the fuseboard. I have had to deduce this from your post.

 

I share your reluctance to register on the Fiat Forum, when you are asked to give your DOB.

 

However eLearn manuals are available on eBay as a CD for about £4, at least for x244, and x250 versions.

 

With the appropriate eLearn CD loaded into your laptop, select english, together with engine version.

 

Select - Electrical equipment - B Various Fuseholders and Valves - B101 Optional Junction Box Under Dash -

B101B (on my x244 eLearn there are three options, one of which is defunct, and another is the 2 pole power connector.) The required option is for the multiway connector.

 

Scan down the connector pins for a wire colour coded "H" for grey. If you are lucky to the right of this you should see the destination connector and more usefull the associated function.

 

IF you manage to get this far you could then step back in the menus and go to the appropriate area and function.

 

As an alternative, since you have identified a (connector?) pin, is it possible to trace the connection to a particular fuse. If so then you Fiat Handbook should reveal the associated function.

 

Note. Numbering of connector terminals. From notes made when carrying out a minor mod to power DRLs, the connector pins are numbered in two rows, as below, and not round in a loop as could be expected.

 

1...................16

 

17..................32

 

I hope that the above is of some help. In general wiring diagrams are drawn to fault a particular circuit, and not to assist in your present problem.

 

Alan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Alan, I'm not sure what you mean by the "version number" i know it is an X250 130 hp maxi 40 chassis euro 5 thats about it, *-) yes the green connector goes to the fuse board, and from your numbering pin 3 or 4 has a small bit of melted plastic around the pin, i cannot check at this moment cos the van is at the dealers, getting a new garage floor put in (another issue *-) ) i am not good with electrics but can read the drawings so i will get on ebay and get the cd, the reason for this, is that the alarm company is gonna have a look at it and i didn't want them "pulling the wool over my eyes". so to speak.

I have also had evidence of a mouse in the engine bay, it made a nest with the sound deadening cloth on top of the suspension strut, on the offside wheel arch, (but no mouse) but even if it chewed a wire why would that effect a short in the fuse box, i am assuming that it is a 12v wire but there must have been some right voltage going through it to melt the shroud! surely? and not blow a fuse?

many thanks for the info really helpfull, now to get on ebay

cheers Jonathan

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Johnathan,

 

I meant exactly what you said "X250". I cannot guarantee that you will be succesful in diagnosing with the eLearn CD, but it a good investment anyway. Also the canbus system could complicate matters.

 

Some further ideas. Isolate the battery and either pare of a short piece of insulationwith a sharp knife, or stick a sharp sewing pin through the faulty wire (difficult with tough thinwall insulation), or even make a tap with a correctly sized "scotchlok" connector. After insulating from spurious contact, you could use the connection as a test point for a multimeter, or better a 12V test lamp. Reconnect battery and you may get 12V. If not turn on ignition, and recheck. Similar with lights. Once you have 12V on the faulty wire, start removing fuses until the 12V is lost. (See following paragraph.) Checking with the Fiat Manual should indicate the faulty circuit.

 

It may be pertinant at this point to relate my own findings on my x244 IH Tio R. On delivery power for the step auto retract was obtained by plugging into an unoccupied relay socket coil terminal. (Relay T24, pin 86.). This circuit was supplied from the LHS fuse panel, and the original fuse,(F31, 10A) had been increased to 25A. I viewed this a potential source of a problem like yours, and re-designed the step wiring.

 

On a point of information, it is not the voltage, but the current that causes heating in electrical circuits. The heating effect rises in proportion to the SQUARE of the current.

 

Alan

 

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Looking at the X250 Elearn manual the only grey (H) wire at the 20-pin connector at the 'B002 junction unit under dashboard (front)' refers you to the 32-pin connector at the 'B001 junction unit' and onwards to the right front headlight. It's very hard to make any sense of it.

Can you check that it is/was plain grey and not bi-coloured and confirm the number of pins at the connector and if possible the pin position please?

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P.S I can put the X250.iso disc image of the Elearn manual somewhere for you to download yourself if you'd like to make your own investigations. It's a 0.7Gb file. With Windows10 you just click on it and Windows mounts it virtually i.e. no need to burn a disc. With earlier versions of Windows you may have to mount it yourself.
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Some words of caution. I have two versions of eLearn ?? relating to the Ducato x244. One is a virtual disc downloaded many years ago, and the other is a CD purchased more recently. I do not know the full provenance of either version. On both versions I have detected several errors on the wiring diagrams.

 

1. On all diagrams checked by me, the relay coil connections are shown reversed with respect to the actual vehicle. (Terminal 86 is denoted as the positive end of the coil in the Bosch system of numbering.) This becomes important only when a relay with a surge supression diode is used, but could cause confusion.

 

2. The Power Distribution Diagram 1010/2 shows the relays T14 (Main Beam), and T02 (Dipped Beam), with the coils connected in parallel, but the connection to an ignition switch controlled supply is missing. Clearly this would not work.

 

3. On the Demisting Diagram 3030, relay T11 has the positive coil and contact connections swapped. While this could work, it differs from the actual wiring, as checked with test lamp.

 

In Steve's contribution above, he is puzzled by a grey wire connecting between two fuse panels and the RH headlamp. So am I, but the circuit that I have mentioned previosly as having been used for an electric step supply in my x244 runs between all tfree fuseboards to supply numerous relay coils when the ignition switch is turned. However this wire is colour coded AR (light blue/red) onthe x244.

 

Alan

 

 

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Steve928 - 2019-05-03 7:09 AM

 

Looking at the X250 Elearn manual the only grey (H) wire at the 20-pin connector at the 'B002 junction unit under dashboard (front)' refers you to the 32-pin connector at the 'B001 junction unit' and onwards to the right front headlight. It's very hard to make any sense of it.

Can you check that it is/was plain grey and not bi-coloured and confirm the number of pins at the connector and if possible the pin position please?

 

 

 

Thanks Steve for the info, i cant look at it yet as it is getting some warranty work done on it, but as soon as it comes back, maybe next week, i will report back

cheers Jonathan

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Steve928 - 2019-05-03 7:28 AM

 

P.S I can put the X250.iso disc image of the Elearn manual somewhere for you to download yourself if you'd like to make your own investigations. It's a 0.7Gb file. With Windows10 you just click on it and Windows mounts it virtually i.e. no need to burn a disc. With earlier versions of Windows you may have to mount it yourself.

 

 

Steve, that would be great if you could do that, pm me if you can

cheers Jonathan

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Alanb - 2019-05-03 11:59 AM

 

Some words of caution. I have two versions of eLearn ?? relating to the Ducato x244. One is a virtual disc downloaded many years ago, and the other is a CD purchased more recently. I do not know the full provenance of either version. On both versions I have detected several errors on the wiring diagrams.

 

1. On all diagrams checked by me, the relay coil connections are shown reversed with respect to the actual vehicle. (Terminal 86 is denoted as the positive end of the coil in the Bosch system of numbering.) This becomes important only when a relay with a surge supression diode is used, but could cause confusion.

 

2. The Power Distribution Diagram 1010/2 shows the relays T14 (Main Beam), and T02 (Dipped Beam), with the coils connected in parallel, but the connection to an ignition switch controlled supply is missing. Clearly this would not work.

 

3. On the Demisting Diagram 3030, relay T11 has the positive coil and contact connections swapped. While this could work, it differs from the actual wiring, as checked with test lamp.

 

In Steve's contribution above, he is puzzled by a grey wire connecting between two fuse panels and the RH headlamp. So am I, but the circuit that I have mentioned previosly as having been used for an electric step supply in my x244 runs between all tfree fuseboards to supply numerous relay coils when the ignition switch is turned. However this wire is colour coded AR (light blue/red) onthe x244.

 

Alan

 

 

 

 

 

thanks Alan, i will investigate further when the van is back, and take in all the comments

Cheers Jonathan

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