leisure battery help for complete novice

[wouldbetraveller]

Hi - wondering if anyone can help me. I have trolled many forums and got a very vague idea about batteries, solar, split charge relays...........however if someone could help with my particular problem I would be forever grateful!

I have saved my pennies and bought a VW T5. I am planning to travel throughout Europe for 5 months (much to my parents dismay as I am travelling as a lone, young female). I paid someone to install a 100Ah battery and after checking it is only a 75Ah! I am sure that is not enough for what I am going to be using which is: a 12V (2.91a) compressor fridge, 6 led lights, macbook charging and possibly a water pump. I think I need another battery and read that batteries should be supplemented with one of the same amps eg 75Ah. I have calculated (not sure how accurately though) that my wattage would be 131W and AH would be 42.77. If you shouldn't drain your battery to less than 50% then having 2 x 75Ah batteries should be ok? Also I want to install a solar panel and hoping that a 100W or 150W would be enough?

I really thought I was doing the right thing asking a firm to do this for me but since they have left me high and dry I am having to explore this myself. (I did get back to the company but they are now out of business and not replying to my emails) So it would be great if someone could help.... please?

 

 

[spirou]

Do some reading here:

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/

 

The second battery would be a big benefit with a compressor fridge but the question is do you even have space for it? Also, seeing as the company went bust and clearly weren't the most honest outfit, I would suspect they didn't do a very good job with wiring either and you might have other problems beyond a lower capacity than you paid for and adding a second battery might make them worse.

 

Solar panel... If you're going around in summer months then 100-150W range will be enough. Not so in winter.

 

 

[Billggski]

If you use a hook up at a site regularly, then one battery could be OK, even 75amps.

It depends on what you are using and for how long, it's only the 'fridge that needs to be continuous.

We manage with one battery quite easily, but have gas for the fridge, cooking and heating, and use sites every few days for toilets, showers and hook up.

 

[aandncaravan]

wouldbetraveller - 2019-05-15 7:56 PM

 

Hi - wondering if anyone can help me. I have trolled many forums and got a very vague idea about batteries, solar, split charge relays...........however if someone could help with my particular problem I would be forever grateful!

I have saved my pennies and bought a VW T5. I am planning to travel throughout Europe for 5 months (much to my parents dismay as I am travelling as a lone, young female). I paid someone to install a 100Ah battery and after checking it is only a 75Ah! I am sure that is not enough for what I am going to be using which is: a 12V (2.91a) compressor fridge, 6 led lights, macbook charging and possibly a water pump. I think I need another battery and read that batteries should be supplemented with one of the same amps eg 75Ah. I have calculated (not sure how accurately though) that my wattage would be 131W and AH would be 42.77. If you shouldn't drain your battery to less than 50% then having 2 x 75Ah batteries should be ok? Also I want to install a solar panel and hoping that a 100W or 150W would be enough?

I really thought I was doing the right thing asking a firm to do this for me but since they have left me high and dry I am having to explore this myself. (I did get back to the company but they are now out of business and not replying to my emails) So it would be great if someone could help.... please?

 

 

Thank you Spirou.

 

Wouldbetravellor, I am impressed with your calculation on daily Ah consumption, 42Ah is pretty close to what we would have expected for a compressor Fridge, see : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/compressor-fridge-12v.php

So Clearly your 75Ah battery isn't going to be big enough. I am guessing the existing battery isn't going to be a quality one either?

 

With a good 150W Solar Panel set-up you should be able to easily generate about 60Ah a day in the UK through most of the Summer months, even more power the further South you go.

But that will drop off to only about 10Ah a day in mid Winter. Remember you will need to seek out the sunny spots, not the shady ones so the van might get quite hot?

 

So long as you are travelling from late Spring through early Autumn you could get away with a single 100Ah battery, but 2 x75Ah would be my choice if there is enough space.

It will be beneficial if you choose high efficiency batteries, to maximise every miliamp, so we would suggest 2 x Varta LFD75 batteries from Alpha batteries (mention us to get a small discount). Varta claim up to 70% better electrical flow than a conventional battery which means more efficient charging, especially Solar and effectively more real capacity.

 

Most vehicle seat bases can accomodate 2 x LFD75 beneath them with ease, and for efficient Alternator charging you want the batteries as close to the front of the vehicle, where the Alternator is, as possible.

 

Get the installer to use minimum 16mm cable, again for efficiency, for all the Battery to Battery connections.

 

 

The LFD75's don't need an external vent, so might be easier to fit without drilling holes in the van that will only rust later.

Alternatively, for a single 100Ah battery, if space is tight, can we suggest a Yuasa L36-EFB, but Yuasa recommend a vent to the outside..

 

 

Have a read of our 'Wiring you own Camper' page. I am not suggesting you go as far as the article, but it will give you a good background, particularly towards the end where it talks about Split Charging, pros and cons, etc. so you can compare it to what you have.

 

 

 

[wouldbetraveller]

thanks for your reply. I don't intend to use campsites! :-D

[wouldbetraveller]

 

 

Thank you Spirou.

 

Wouldbetravellor, I am impressed with your calculation on daily Ah consumption, 42Ah is pretty close to what we would have expected for a compressor Fridge, see : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/compressor-fridge-12v.php

So Clearly your 75Ah battery isn't going to be big enough. I am guessing the existing battery isn't going to be a quality one either?

 

With a good 150W Solar Panel set-up you should be able to easily generate about 60Ah a day in the UK through most of the Summer months, even more power the further South you go.

But that will drop off to only about 10Ah a day in mid Winter. Remember you will need to seek out the sunny spots, not the shady ones so the van might get quite hot?

 

So long as you are travelling from late Spring through early Autumn you could get away with a single 100Ah battery, but 2 x75Ah would be my choice if there is enough space.

It will be beneficial if you choose high efficiency batteries, to maximise every miliamp, so we would suggest 2 x Varta LFD75 batteries from Alpha batteries (mention us to get a small discount). Varta claim up to 70% better electrical flow than a conventional battery which means more efficient charging, especially Solar and effectively more real capacity.

 

Most vehicle seat bases can accomodate 2 x LFD75 beneath them with ease, and for efficient Alternator charging you want the batteries as close to the front of the vehicle, where the Alternator is, as possible.

 

Get the installer to use minimum 16mm cable, again for efficiency, for all the Battery to Battery connections.

 

 

The LFD75's don't need an external vent, so might be easier to fit without drilling holes in the van that will only rust later.

Alternatively, for a single 100Ah battery, if space is tight, can we suggest a Yuasa L36-EFB, but Yuasa recommend a vent to the outside..

 

 

Have a read of our 'Wiring you own Camper' page. I am not suggesting you go as far as the article, but it will give you a good background, particularly towards the end where it talks about Split Charging, pros and cons, etc. so you can compare it to what you have.

 

 

Thanks so much for all the info! I looked at your link and the website was fantastic however I saw the page on the campaign for battery change. I am so disappointed to hear that what I thought was an NCC approved Platinum 75Ah has such a poor review. I was going to buy another Platinum 75Ah to supplement the one I have. Would you therefore suggest I scrap that idea and buy 2 Varta low profile 75AH. For a novice it is a great leap of faith to avoid a NCC approved battery! I like the idea of not having to vent them. My existing battery is beneath the passenger seat. It seems such a waste as I only got the Platinum a few months ago.

Another question I have relates to the charging. I know that driving will charge the battery. I wont be driving enough each day to fully charge the battery. I wont be going to campsites. While I am away (5 months) do I need to completely charge the battery and if so how on earth do I do that?

Many thanks in advance

 

[wouldbetraveller]

spirou - 2019-05-15 8:25 PM

 

Do some reading here:

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/

 

The second battery would be a big benefit with a compressor fridge but the question is do you even have space for it? Also, seeing as the company went bust and clearly weren't the most honest outfit, I would suspect they didn't do a very good job with wiring either and you might have other problems beyond a lower capacity than you paid for and adding a second battery might make them worse.

 

Solar panel... If you're going around in summer months then 100-150W range will be enough. Not so in winter.

 

Thanks for your reply :-D I will try to make sure that I get someone who knows about wiring to give me a hand

[spirou]

Lets put it this way, if you don't charge your batteries completely and regularly, they will die very soon. They don't like to be left at partial charge. You still haven't said in what period you intend to drive around but constant wild camping off hookup isn't as easy as it sounds.

[wouldbetraveller]

spirou - 2019-05-16 2:14 PM

 

Lets put it this way, if you don't charge your batteries completely and regularly, they will die very soon. They don't like to be left at partial charge. You still haven't said in what period you intend to drive around but constant wild camping off hookup isn't as easy as it sounds.

 

I am travelling from late June to October. Hoping to only visit campsites twice monthly...

[aandncaravan]

wouldbetraveller - 2019-05-16 1:27 PM

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much for all the info! I looked at your link and the website was fantastic however I saw the page on the campaign for battery change. I am so disappointed to hear that what I thought was an NCC approved Platinum 75Ah has such a poor review. I was going to buy another Platinum 75Ah to supplement the one I have. Would you therefore suggest I scrap that idea and buy 2 Varta low profile 75AH. For a novice it is a great leap of faith to avoid a NCC approved battery! I like the idea of not having to vent them. My existing battery is beneath the passenger seat. It seems such a waste as I only got the Platinum a few months ago.

Another question I have relates to the charging. I know that driving will charge the battery. I wont be driving enough each day to fully charge the battery. I wont be going to campsites. While I am away (5 months) do I need to completely charge the battery and if so how on earth do I do that?

Many thanks in advance

 

 

The Platinum isn't even a good Starter battery. You can see from the info on the Alpha Batteries website that it achieves a measly 70 cycles versus the Varta LFD's 200, yet the difference in cost is just over £5.

 

The Platinum must be used with a vent, it will gas off a lot of fluid, it is also far less efficient than the Varta. I would estimate from what we have seen inside the Platinum's that over it's life it could waste more than 20% of the charge you put into it and when every amp will be precious to you, that's a lot

So yes, sell it on ebay and buy two proper batteries,

 

 

If you are going for a 150w Solar panel, that will fully recharge the batteries each day through the Summer, and it's probably your best option.

Only towards middle Autumn will the drain versus charge start to be an issue but manageable.

 

 

I assume there isn't a mains charger fitted, so you probably can't even go down the Honda Eu10i generator option?

 

 

 

[wouldbetraveller]

aandncaravan - 2019-05-16 2:44 PM

 

 

 

 

The Platinum isn't even a good Starter battery. You can see from the info on the Alpha Batteries website that it achieves a measly 70 cycles versus the Varta LFD's 200, yet the difference in cost is just over £5.

 

The Platinum must be used with a vent, it will gas off a lot of fluid, it is also far less efficient than the Varta. I would estimate from what we have seen inside the Platinum's that over it's life it could waste more than 20% of the charge you put into it and when every amp will be precious to you, that's a lot

So yes, sell it on ebay and buy two proper batteries,

 

 

If you are going for a 150w Solar panel, that will fully recharge the batteries each day through the Summer, and it's probably your best option.

Only towards middle Autumn will the drain versus charge start to be an issue but manageable.

 

 

I assume there isn't a mains charger fitted, so you probably can't even go down the Honda Eu10i generator option?

 

 

well that's it decided - sell Platinum battery, buy 2 low profile 75Ah Varta batteries and buy a 150W solar panel! Then find a reputable installer ...

I don't think I have a mains charger fitted.

How can a solar panel fully charge a battery when I have heard the expression "trickle charge" which doesn't suggest full charge?

 

[david lloyd]

Again, I really would suggest that you read the pages Allan Evans has put together over many years on their website www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk - now that you know about the Varta batteries and are contemplating having a solar panel it is most likely that most companies you approach to fit a solar panel will willing do so - but - like your experience with the battery, you are likely to get the cheapest most inefficient system they can source but charge the earth for. I know that sounds a bit cynical, but I speak from bitter experience. The other thing you need to ensure you get the best out of your solar panel investment is a very good MPPT solar regulator (Votronic ones are very good) and have it wired direct to your batteries (leisure and engine) with good quality cabling - it is this bit of kit that will ensure your batteries have the best chance of getting fully charged when the sun is out - but only if it is a good one.

 

Good luck with the search though - and after all this enjoy the camping.

 

David

[wouldbetraveller]

david lloyd - 2019-05-16 3:39 PM

 

Again, I really would suggest that you read the pages Allan Evans has put together over many years on their website www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk - now that you know about the Varta batteries and are contemplating having a solar panel it is most likely that most companies you approach to fit a solar panel will willing do so - but - like your experience with the battery, you are likely to get the cheapest most inefficient system they can source but charge the earth for. I know that sounds a bit cynical, but I speak from bitter experience. The other thing you need to ensure you get the best out of your solar panel investment is a very good MPPT solar regulator (Votronic ones are very good) and have it wired direct to your batteries (leisure and engine) with good quality cabling - it is this bit of kit that will ensure your batteries have the best chance of getting fully charged when the sun is out - but only if it is a good one.

 

Good luck with the search though - and after all this enjoy the camping.

 

 

 

David

 

Thanks David - I will read Allan Evans pages tonight and hopefully become a bit more knowledgeable! Enjoying the camping though seems a far off dream at this stage :-S

[spirou]

Another useful resource of common sense solar advice (although somewhat bitter) is Bob @ https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

 

Together with Allan's site you should know more than enough to challenge any installer that will try to cut corners.

[Derek Uzzell]

wouldbetraveller - 2019-05-16 1:16 PM

 

thanks for your reply. I don't intend to use campsites! :-D

 

As the saying goes “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”. ;-)

 

If your VW T5 has no capability to charge the leisure battery (or batteries) from a 230V electric hook-up, you’d be wise to have a battery-charger fitted that permits this to be done.

 

[wouldbetraveller]

spirou - 2019-05-16 4:52 PM

 

Another useful resource of common sense solar advice (although somewhat bitter) is Bob @ https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/

 

Together with Allan's site you should know more than enough to challenge any installer that will try to cut corners.

 

Thanks Spirou - appreciate all your help :-D

[wouldbetraveller]

Billggski - 2019-05-16 7:35 AM

 

If you use a hook up at a site regularly, then one battery could be OK, even 75amps.

It depends on what you are using and for how long, it's only the 'fridge that needs to be continuous.

We manage with one battery quite easily, but have gas for the fridge, cooking and heating, and use sites every few days for toilets, showers and hook up.

 

thanks for your advice :-D

[wouldbetraveller]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-05-16 6:46 PM

 

 

 

As the saying goes “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”. ;-)

 

If your VW T5 has no capability to charge the leisure battery (or batteries) from a 230V electric hook-up, you’d be wise to have a battery-charger fitted that permits this to be done.

 

Another thing to look into! thanks for your advice :-)

[BruceM]

It strikes me that what makes this off grid camping build challenging is the use of a compressor fridge because of its high electrical power consumption. Although a gas fridge would be preferable, perhaps as you’re the only one travelling, then perhaps the more radical approach would be to ditch the fridge entirely?

 

When my wife and I camped with our 3 children across Europe we’d use neither a fridge nor EHU. If you think about it, what would you need a fridge for? Eggs, fruit and vegetables don’t need a fridge. Butter will keep for days outside of a fridge, and olive oil is a good substitute. Milk is good for at least a couple of days without a fridge. So when we travelled, we’d carry canned and dry food and buy fresh perishable food locally to be consumed on the day. Once at a destination we’d put anything we wanted to keep cool in a bowl of water or if the weather was cold, we’d hang it outside. The only thing we missed was not having ice for the pastis. If we’d had a pressing need to keep something cool we’d have put it in an insulated ‘cool box’ with a bag of ice bought at the nearest supermarket. That requirement never arose though.

 

The photo below illustrates – taken in the Ardeche

[wouldbetraveller]

BruceM - 2019-05-17 5:18 PM

 

It strikes me that what makes this off grid camping build challenging is the use of a compressor fridge because of its high electrical power consumption. Although a gas fridge would be preferable, perhaps as you’re the only one travelling, then perhaps the more radical approach would be to ditch the fridge entirely?

 

When my wife and I camped with our 3 children across Europe we’d use neither a fridge nor EHU. If you think about it, what would you need a fridge for? Eggs, fruit and vegetables don’t need a fridge. Butter will keep for days outside of a fridge, and olive oil is a good substitute. Milk is good for at least a couple of days without a fridge. So when we travelled, we’d carry canned and dry food and buy fresh perishable food locally to be consumed on the day. Once at a destination we’d put anything we wanted to keep cool in a bowl of water or if the weather was cold, we’d hang it outside. The only thing we missed was not having ice for the pastis. If we’d had a pressing need to keep something cool we’d have put it in an insulated ‘cool box’ with a bag of ice bought at the nearest supermarket. That requirement never arose though.

 

The photo below illustrates – taken in the Ardeche

 

Hi Bruce - thanks for your advice. yes I think my leisure battery problem is directly related to my fridge.. but since I spent quite a lot of money on it I want to use it. Your suggestions are very much appreciated and if I run out of power I now have a back up plan. :-)