mids Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi just had the lesiure battery changed by dealer at a cost to us as it was out of warranty. He said all diagnostic tests showed everything was ok he said it was a faulty battery which caused it to over charge .anyone disagree.i thought it may have been a faulty automatic charger not cutting out . Van is an elddis majestic 115 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 That just has to be one very mean spirited dealer to charge you for charging a battery, especially if he supplied the van to you, and certainly not a dealer I would be enthusiastic about going back to!! How long did he have it, how did he charge it and at what time intervals did he check the voltage after it had been charged. I doubt he has given you enough information for anyone to make a judgement or diagnosis but if the battery is out of warranty and the warranty was three years then the battery might indeed be on the way out? There has been much discussion of late about battery failure and my inclination at this point would be to replace it with either the Varta or Bosch equivalent which has so often been discussed of late and see how it goes. Are you aware that when left parked up even when it's turned off at the control panel the battery will still drain over a few weeks and once really flat can be too damaged to ever fully recharge and hold it's charge, and that in my view is one big reason why so many leisure batteries fail so early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mids Posted January 4, 2016 Author Share Posted January 4, 2016 Hi he didn't CHARGE IT he put a new one on as he said the battery was faulty and out of warranty. Said no other faults found to cause it to over charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 mids - 2016-01-04 10:49 PM Hi he didn't CHARGE IT he put a new one on as he said the battery was faulty and out of warranty. Said no other faults found to cause it to over charge My apologies - I misread changed as charged - I should have gone to Specsavers! My inclination would be to talk to the makers of the electrical control system - possibly Sargent - if so they generally are very helpful with how to check and test their kit. Regretably my own experience of batteries supplied by motorhome dealers is not good as too many times the battery they have supplied, often of a cheap and nasty variety, was little better than the one replaced. Alternatively maybe a call to Alan at Aandncaravan who often posts on here and seems to know his stuff might be worthwhile, especially if it is all out of warranty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 mids - 2016-01-04 8:52 PM Hi just had the lesiure battery changed by dealer at a cost to us as it was out of warranty. He said all diagnostic tests showed everything was ok he said it was a faulty battery which caused it to over charge .anyone disagree.i thought it may have been a faulty automatic charger not cutting out . Van is an elddis majestic 115 Sorry, but how the hell can anyone disagree, without testing that is impossible. You went to the dealer so have to trust them, if they are wrong it will show up pretty fast with a new battery so you can pay them another visit and point out there error. Why do people think all dealers are wrong or crooks, most are not and try to do a decent job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 As I mentioned on garry’s posting today http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/leisure-battery/40520/ there is background to this leisure-battery problem worth taking into account if any sort of informed advice is to be offered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Very rare for a modern battery charger to overcharge a battery to the point it makes the battery Hot/Boil as you suggest. When it does occur, the fitment of a replacement battery will see it still charging at 17v+. If the voltages with a new battery are now a normal 13.5 - 14.4v then it wasn't a charger fault. Most of the time, when a Battery Boils (bubbles vigorously and gets Hot) it is from internal battery failure. Can't follow the link to see the history of this so no idea why the battery suffered internal failure. However, for a Dealer to be supplying batteries so poor they have only a 12 month Warranty seems a little counter productive? Most half decent batteries have a 2 year warranty, the one in question clearly can't be one of the best so there is a risk the batteries will fail prematurely, causing issues within the vehicles that cost the Dealer time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 I got talking to an Elddis accordo 125 owner on a ferry last November and the first thing he said to me was has your battery been ok? His was overcharging the battery and he had a new charger fitted by the dealer. Apparently it's a problem Elddis know about because several vehicles have been affected by a bad batch of chargers. He now carries a spare charger around with him. Ours (accordo 105) has been ok, touch wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Charles you hear stories like this all the time. If you go on the Caravan forums you will read endless threads about Nordelettronica chargers failing and stories of 'bad batches' of charger, some models having a 'known' weakness, etc Don't know where they come from as almost all the ones we repair have been overloaded by a battery past it's best. You will even find threads that Nordelettronica are out of business, yet we are Nordelletronica distributors. If you go on almost any Lunar or Knaus forum you will read about faulty Calira chargers with 'known issues'. Again almost all the ones we see for repair are damaged by batteries long due for retirement. If you search the forums for Schaudt Elektroblocks you will see lots of threads saying they are prone to mains 230v issues as they don't have an internal Spike/Surge suppressor. Yet they do have an inbuilt Spike/Surge protection, exactly the same design as almost every other charger going from Nordelettronica, Calira, Arsilicii, Reich, Toptron, etc. Very rarely is there any damage on the 230v components. Almost all the damage we see is on the 12v side of the charger from a rubbish battery or an over large battery bank. These have ports for upgrade kits (a 2 pin socket usually labelled LAS..) if the battery bank is taken above 180Ah. We have only ever seen 2 battery upgrade kits fitted, but lots of upgraded battery banks over 200Ah. Go on the Burstner forum and you will read about the 'rubbish' Reich e-box, when it is a really elegant well made unit. However, it is only a 16a charger and will only cope with a habitation battery bank of around 130Ah max. Rarely do we see a Burstner with less than 2 habitation batteries, sometimes 4 batteries, and the owners wonder why they are on their third Reich e-box. Those we see that do have one battery, are usually cared for correctly and have an e-box that is between 8 - 10 years old, still going well. The e-box was designed by Reich to have a Dealer upgrade kit fitted if the battery was taken above 110Ah. Never seen one fitted, ever. Just search for Sargent charger failures and you will see the same as written for the others. Again, in our experience, it's usually a battery that starts any trouble not an issue with the charger. Etc, etc. Go on any Motorhome forum and you will read the same misinformation about chargers, bad batches, known issues, etc. When it is almost always a battery related fault. We specialise in repairing Motorhome battery chargers, we have not seen any poorly made charger units, in fact the reverse is true. The Sargent EC325/328 range has so much electronic protection built in to every area of the unit. A really tough little cookie. For example even the temperature sensor electronics has protection against short circuit, overload, etc. To counter your comments, we are sent a number of 'broken' units by dealers that are fully working. We are in the process of returning a 'broken' Sargent EC325 to the trade that 'wouldn't charge'. The unit has no fault we can find. Works perfectly. On questioning the Dealers mechanic on his diagnosis he reports the battery as only reading 3.2v, "so if the charger is ok, do you think it's the battery then?"'. About 3 years ago we bought all the 'warranty replaced' broken charger stock when Discover Leisure went under. All the units had customer names, the vehicle they came from and the 'fault' which was, without exception, not charging the battery. Out of 19 units, 2 had a slightly low voltage and just one that had a real fault. We attended to the 3 units and sold all 19 units with an 18 month warranty, on the proviso a new battery was fitted at the same time. Not one came back. I would like to have repaired the Ferry Boat Mans charger, willing to bet 10p that it wasn't overcharging, but a duff battery that was Boiling. If we are contacted now for a repair of a broken charger which has poorly configured batteries or batteries past their best, we decline to tender for the work. After 3 years of doing this we have a pretty good idea what will happen. There just isn't any point in repairing a charger that has openly declared it doesn't like the batteries if the battery issue is not resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 OK, can't argue with that. It was just what I was told. That's got me wondering now. About 6 months ago I repaired a big boat battery charger, it was high quality, American make, can't rember what but the owner was keen to have it repaired as even a reconditioned unit was about £400. Anyway it was blowing mains fuses instantly. I replaced 4 big smoothing capacitors as a couple had expanded and a varistor on the mains input was shorted. I never went to the boat to check the batteries or charging current, my mate refitted it and reported back it's working. Looks like I've got away with it though :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 aandncaravan - 2016-01-05 9:30 PM ...Can't follow the link to see the history of this so no idea why the battery suffered internal failure... When you say you “...can’t follow the link to see the history...” I’m uncertain whether you mean the link I provided does not work for you or you just don’t have the time to wade through the earlier discussions relating to Garry’s (mids’s) leisure-battery problem. Just in case there’s a problem with the link (which points to a forum-search to all the discussions so far and works perfectly well for me) I’ve provided below individual links to the discussions in chronological order and copied Garry’s original posting from each. This should give a ‘feel’ for the issue. ........................................................................................ http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/lesiure-battery/37404/ 18 February 2015 4:54 PM Hi still learing about motorhoming .garage has had van and let the lesiure battery discharge fullly will this harm the battery? Charged it up reading 13.5 volts has dropped to 12.5 in 48 hours with nothing turned on is this normal? Been onthe drive since november dont remember the gauge moving in that time .van brand new in September. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/leisure-battery/40022/ 10 November 2015 5:22 PM Hi haven't used motorhome for a while so have had it plugged in and it is fully charged 12.8 v but for some reason hand touched battery and it was hot now worried it may have been over heating or is this the norm. Motorhome is only a year old so we have little experience. Thanks in advance http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/leisure-battery/40025/ 10 November 2015 6:51 PM Hi please could anyone tell me does a leisure battery get hot never noticed this before could it have been overheating, manuel says automatic charging system wont let it, going away for the weekend worried abouta fire should i be? http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/leisure-battery/40516/ 4 January 2016 8:52 PM Hi just had the lesiure battery changed by dealer at a cost to us as it was out of warranty. He said all diagnostic tests showed everything was ok he said it was a faulty battery which caused it to over charge .anyone disagree.i thought it may have been a faulty automatic charger not cutting out . Van is an elddis majestic 115 http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/leisure-battery/40520/ 5 January 2016 8:45 AM Hi motorhome was new in September 2015 .last month the leisure battery overheated/overcharged. Had everything checked and told it was a faulty battery, everything else working ok we were told . Battery out of warranty so had to pay for a new one. After researching concerned there could have been a fault wirh the built in automatic charger ,but can't prove this anyone agree. ........................................................................................ Relevant details of the Elddis warranty are as follows: "Warranty cover Scope. This applies to all new Elddis, Compass, Xplore and Buccaneer products manufactured from 2012 model year onwards. Three year manufacturer's warranty Year 1 warranty - Covers all original components, including permanently fitted equipment forming part of the original product specification. Year 2 and 3 warranty - Covers all original components, including permanently fitted equipment forming part of the original product specification, with the exception of the following items: Microwaves Tyres Batteries Windows and glass Deterioration of exterior paint work Soft furnishings, carpets and floor coverings Entertainment equipment Fluorescent tubes, bulbs, LEDs and fuses Plastic and GRP exterior panels Plastic products including A-frame covers, wheel spats and shower trays Minor adjustment of blinds, hinges, catches, stays and doors” It will be seen from this that the Elddis-backed warranty relating to the Garry’s motorhome’s leisure-battery will have expired in September 2015. (For what it’s worth, I couldn’t find anything on-line about battery-chargers in Elddis leisure-vehicles having a worse than average failure rate, or about a ‘bad batch’ of chargers finding its way into Elddis motorhomes.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 I have never known a battery charger to be damaged by a duff battery. I have never known an alternator - or for that matter a dynamo in the old days - to be damaged by a duff battery. But then I have only been driving and amateur diy fixing cars boats caravans and motorhomes for just over 50 years so maybe I have just been lucky! So why is it that these very expensive purpose designed control units are unable to handle a duff battery? I find it beyond belief that none of the control box makers take the trouble to design their very expensive units to protect themselves against a duff battery or shut down and give a warning light to show a defective battery. Furthermore, with great respect to Alan, for anyone to then defend these control system makers for their lack of design prowess is hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Charles - 2016-01-05 10:18 PM I got talking to an Elddis accordo 125 owner on a ferry last November and the first thing he said to me was has your battery been ok? His was overcharging the battery and he had a new charger fitted by the dealer. Apparently it's a problem Elddis know about because several vehicles have been affected by a bad batch of chargers. He now carries a spare charger around with him. Ours (accordo 105) has been ok, touch wood. It might help to say what make, and if possible model, of charger is involved, as I'd be a mite surprised if Elddis have bought a unique brand/type. Logically, there must be owners of vans of other brands with the same charger fitted, who could beneficially be warned to check for signs of overcharging. It would also give them the opportunity to contact the charger manufacturer, to check for serial numbers on the dud batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Brian The Elddis handbook for a 2015 Autoquest can be found here http://www.elddis.co.uk/documents/Handbooks/2015/2015-Autoquest-Handbook.pdf The handbook seems to suggest that Elddis fits BCA-branded electrical equipment throughout the vehicle. If that’s the case, then this may be the charging unit fitted https://www.caravanaccessoryshop.co.uk/product/bca-dual-stage-power-unit-transformer/3874 http://www.bcagroup.co.uk/app/users_content/downloads/BCA2012_BCA_BROCHURE.pdf as it’s also used in Explorer Group caravans. In Garry’s case - given what has been advised here and in the other related threads by people with extensive battery experience - it seems fairly unlikely that a fault with the charger has led to Garry’s battery’s demise. Garry’s dealer has told him that all diagnostic tests have shown everything is apparently OK and that a fault with the battery has caused it be be overcharged. Whether the latter diagnosis was correct is largely academic, as replacement of the original failed battery was not carried out within the battery’s 1-year warranty period and (as rupert123 rightly said) there’s no way of knowing what tests the dealer has carried out and no way for forum-members to know how the battery-charging system is currently behaving. Garry may think the dealer’s diagnosis was wrong and guess that the reason for the battery failure was actually charger-related, but if one is not sufficiently technically-minded to experiment with the charging system oneself to test the ‘faulty charger’ hypothesis (which I believe is Garry’s situation) it’s hard to see what he can do other than (as rupert123 also advised) wait and see what happens with the new battery. If it becomes evident that the charger is overcharging the new battery the charger can be replaced under warranty (and the battery too if it’s been damaged as a consequence). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Tracker - 2016-01-06 10:00 AM I have never known a battery charger to be damaged by a duff battery. I have never known an alternator - or for that matter a dynamo in the old days - to be damaged by a duff battery. But then I have only been driving and amateur diy fixing cars boats caravans and motorhomes for just over 50 years so maybe I have just been lucky! So why is it that these very expensive purpose designed control units are unable to handle a duff battery? I find it beyond belief that none of the control box makers take the trouble to design their very expensive units to protect themselves against a duff battery or shut down and give a warning light to show a defective battery. Furthermore, with great respect to Alan, for anyone to then defend these control system makers for their lack of design prowess is hard to understand. I can't explain why you have never had charger failure, but would suggest that you are very technically capable. You are aware of the physics of charging and battery technology. You may be someone who is mechanically sympathetic, hence always cautious in asking equipment to deliver over their design? As for Alternator failure, I would suggest the same. But if you ask any company that rebuilds Alternators for all vehicles what the area of highest failure rate is per vehicle population?. It will come out as Motorhomes every time, and the failures happen at relatively low miles. Yet vans and Lorries, which should have a much higher failure rate because of the hundreds of thousands of miles they cover, rarely suffer Alternator failure. When it does happen it is usually the Bearings that need a rebuild as well, i.e. the unit is worn out rather than overload. Modern Car Alternators are very reliable, excepting some of the poor quality aftermarket versions we are seeing from Lithuania and the like. When they do fail, like the BMW 730 we saw recently that had two really poor batteries, there is a reason. Go on any Motorhome Forum and Alternator failure crops up again and again, often at low mileages. How many Car drivers do you know that have had an Alternator failure at less than 30,000 miles? The only difference between the Alternator use on a Motorhome versus a Van/Car/Truck is the Habitation batteries. When we see a failed Alternator on a Motorhome the wiring from it to the habitation area has usually got melted fuses. I don't mean a blown fuse, I mean a melted sticky mess indicating the fuse has been running right at capacity for extended periods. Always a rubbish set of batteries. Not unusual for a Motorhome to come to us for a 230v charger following an earlier trip to the Dealer for an Alternator. As for why Motorhome 'chargers' need to be more robust and protectionist, is cost and what they do/are. The BCA 'charger' fitted in the Motorhome that triggered the thread is a fixed 13.8v, 10amp Power Supply, that also 'charges' batteries. While it is a good Power Supply it is not actually a very good charger, because the voltage is less than ideal and it is only a single stage unit. However it is very robust and ideal for the Caravan environment for which it was designed. It has been around a long time. The Discovery stock we bought some years ago were the BCA 20a version. Very, very, very rare for a fixed voltage unit to overcharge, as there is no 'voltage varying' circuitry to fail. They are robust because they are simple, no varying voltage circuitry, no battery pulsing for faster charging, etc. When you put a major load on it gets hot, backing down the current to just a few amps. When things are really hard work the output can be down to less than an amp. Because it is simple it is cheap, only around £70. The downside is it takes forever to charge a low battery. It only supports a single 100Ah battery, and struggles to keep that charged fully. In response to requests for faster charging, the Power Supplies became more charger like with multi stage charging, but the majority are still Power Supplies at Heart. The last thing that is desirable for a Power Supply, is for it to shut down because the going gets tough. Imagine a Cruise Missile with a power supply that gets a bit hot so shuts down?. Ok a silly example, but that is what power supplies are for, to put power into a Motorhomes lighting circuits even if the going is difficult. Trying to keep the lights on at all costs, because being in a Motorhome with no power is not funny. How does that tally with you wanting it to shutdown to protect itself? How many owners would say that is a bad thing? Surely the onus is on the Motorhome owner to ensure the Power supply/charger is protected? The other problem is working out which is the strain from charging a rubbish battery versus watching TV, the water Pump, the Toliet flush, 26 Halogen light bulbs, two phone chargers, an Xbox, a Laptop, etc.? How would the power supply/charger tell the difference? You could probably build a power supply/charger that has all you want, even a standby baby 11.8v power supply to pick up the 'Power Supply' work when the 'Charger' section shuts down in protection mode. But the cost would be more than most want to pay. All the time we hear, "why are these so complex and expensive, why can't they be simpler?". Then someone else asks, "why won't it tell me exactly how many minutes and seconds I have left before it shuts down? Just giving me an alarm the battery is low, is no use to me". There are many things all around us that rely on the user to ensure it is used as designed. Nothing to stop me putting a Tin can in my Microwave and blowing it up, for example. Down to me to ensure I use it as designed. Some people do, some don't and pay the price. I suspect you may be one knows how to get the best out of things electrical/mechanical? I do defend the designs from the Motorhome Electronics manufacturers. They mostly produce a pretty amazing product, when you consider the user expectation is actually an impossible one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Derek Uzzell - 2016-01-06 2:48 PM Brian The Elddis handbook for a 2015 Autoquest can be found here http://www.elddis.co.uk/documents/Handbooks/2015/2015-Autoquest-Handbook.pdf The handbook seems to suggest that Elddis fits BCA-branded electrical equipment throughout the vehicle. If that’s the case, then this may be the charging unit fitted https://www.caravanaccessoryshop.co.uk/product/bca-dual-stage-power-unit-transformer/3874 http://www.bcagroup.co.uk/app/users_content/downloads/BCA2012_BCA_BROCHURE.pdf as it’s also used in Explorer Group caravans. In Garry’s case - given what has been advised here and in the other related threads by people with extensive battery experience - it seems fairly unlikely that a fault with the charger has led to Garry’s battery’s demise. Garry’s dealer has told him that all diagnostic tests have shown everything is apparently OK and that a fault with the battery has caused it be be overcharged. Whether the latter diagnosis was correct is largely academic, as replacement of the original failed battery was not carried out within the battery’s 1-year warranty period and (as rupert123 rightly said) there’s no way of knowing what tests the dealer has carried out and no way for forum-members to know how the battery-charging system is currently behaving. Garry may think the dealer’s diagnosis was wrong and guess that the reason for the battery failure was actually charger-related, but if one is not sufficiently technically-minded to experiment with the charging system oneself to test the ‘faulty charger’ hypothesis (which I believe is Garry’s situation) it’s hard to see what he can do other than (as rupert123 also advised) wait and see what happens with the new battery. If it becomes evident that the charger is overcharging the new battery the charger can be replaced under warranty (and the battery too if it’s been damaged as a consequence). In Garry's case, I agree. My suggestion that information be provided about the charger unit was in response to Charles' report of the possibility of a duff batch of chargers, though I note that Allan thinks this unlikely. I also note from the Elddis manual that they appear not to supply their vans pre-fitted with leisure batteries, so presumably it was the dealer who decided what to fit. Garry hasn't enlarged on this as to make, capacity, or type so, in the absence of any further developments, I'm inclined to agree that there is little more of use that can be said. We, and Garry, will have to wait and see how battery 2 fares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Thanks for the explanation Alan, which for me at least raises more points than it clarifies, and I can assure you that I am far from technically capable! I have great difficulty understanding most of the theory of electricity and electronics, and physics is not a strong point either. I am however very good with mechanical things that I can figure out how they work so I can dismantle and repair them. Most of what I have learned about batteries etc has come from this forum in recent years which funnily enough and amazingly coincidentally coincides with most of the problems most of us seem to experience with this largely inadequate modern technically advanced kit. I've only had motorhomes for some 40 years and probably some 150,000 miles in all but I have never had an alternator failure, although many battery failures and just one control box failure - so far. I used to carry a spare alternator years ago but never needed it after many years and thousands of miles - perhaps I am just lucky - or is it because I never use EHU so the control box cannot ruin my batteries! As the alternator on a motorhome rarely charges the leisure at more than 15 amps and generally less than 10 amps and even that via a 30 amp fuse so I still don't see how duff batteries can destroy an alternator. That said I accept your assurance that they do - although I am unable to see why? The only time an inbuilt charger is charging the leisure batteries is when it is on mains hook up in which case mains electric lights and power are also available in the van, and even if the 12 volt charger shut down from charging there should be enough residual charge left in the battery to last for a while. I have not had an alternator failon a car for more years than I can remember, but then again our cars have been mainly Japanese in recent years and Japanese electronics are generally more reliable than European - especially Italian electrics! As regards the onus being on the owner to shut the system down if it is struggling - all very well in theory but how would your average owner, including me - even know there was a problem as there is no warning light or buzzer to grab the owners attention so the wretched thing just plods on until it burns itself out. Good design - sorry but I don't think so! Does it matter how long it takes to charge a leisure battery if on hook up as when on hook up you relly do not need a decent battery. I would happily exchange a few hours extra charging time for bombproof durability - but then again I never use EHU anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 An interesting thread (for saddo's like me), which raises the issue of fitting extra leisure batteries without upgrading the charging system. This seems a common "upgrade" that might have repercussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Billggski - 2016-01-06 6:37 PM An interesting thread (for saddo's like me), which raises the issue of fitting extra leisure batteries without upgrading the charging system. This seems a common "upgrade" that might have repercussions. Exacerbated by kit that simply does not do what it says on the labels for as long as it should if it were adequately designed and built! I wonder how the sort of unreliable kit we have to live with would go down with Boeing or Airbus if they made Skyhomes for wealthy worldwide wanderers and I dare say that battery charging failure would be a lot more inconvenient in a submarine than in a motorhome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Tracker - 2016-01-06 7:05 PM Billggski - 2016-01-06 6:37 PM An interesting thread (for saddo's like me), which raises the issue of fitting extra leisure batteries without upgrading the charging system. This seems a common "upgrade" that might have repercussions. Exacerbated by kit that simply does not do what it says on the labels for as long as it should if it were adequately designed and built! I wonder how the sort of unreliable kit we have to live with would go down with Boeing or Airbus if they made Skyhomes for wealthy worldwide wanderers and I dare say that battery charging failure would be a lot more inconvenient in a submarine than in a motorhome! Are you talking here about the Alternator companies whose Alternators do very good, reliable service on many millions of Cars, Vans and trucks, when the same Alternators don't seem to be reliable on a few hundred thousand Motorhomes? In some cases, the exact same Alternators are shared across the different groups. Isn't this is about the loading/damage caused by batteries to ALL Motorhome charging systems? Not sure it is fair to pick on one particular charging technology, when there is another, totally different, utterly proven (when used as designed) Alternator 'Charger' suffering as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Tracker - 2016-01-06 7:05 PM I wonder how the sort of unreliable kit we have to live with would go down with Boeing or Airbus if they made Skyhomes for wealthy worldwide wanderers and I dare say that battery charging failure would be a lot more inconvenient in a submarine than in a motorhome! Maybe not the best comparison ;-) http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/14/3990308/airbus-350-reportedly-dropping-lithium-ion-batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Brian Kirby - 2016-01-06 1:06 PM Charles - 2016-01-05 10:18 PM I got talking to an Elddis accordo 125 owner on a ferry last November and the first thing he said to me was has your battery been ok? His was overcharging the battery and he had a new charger fitted by the dealer. Apparently it's a problem Elddis know about because several vehicles have been affected by a bad batch of chargers. He now carries a spare charger around with him. Ours (accordo 105) has been ok, touch wood. It might help to say what make, and if possible model, of charger is involved, as I'd be a mite surprised if Elddis have bought a unique brand/type. Logically, there must be owners of vans of other brands with the same charger fitted, who could beneficially be warned to check for signs of overcharging. It would also give them the opportunity to contact the charger manufacturer, to check for serial numbers on the dud batch. He didn't say what make or model, just that it is a small rectangular aluminum box behind the fuse box and the spare one he bought was £80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 In his posting of 6 January 2016 5:42 PM Allan identified the unit used by Elddis as this one https://www.leisureshopdirect.com/electric/230v-equipment/transformers/bca-10-amp-power-unit-transformer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Tracker - 2016-01-06 7:05 PM Billggski - 2016-01-06 6:37 PM An interesting thread (for saddo's like me), which raises the issue of fitting extra leisure batteries without upgrading the charging system. This seems a common "upgrade" that might have repercussions. Exacerbated by kit that simply does not do what it says on the labels for as long as it should if it were adequately designed and built! I wonder how the sort of unreliable kit we have to live with would go down with Boeing or Airbus if they made Skyhomes for wealthy worldwide wanderers and I dare say that battery charging failure would be a lot more inconvenient in a submarine than in a motorhome! What unreliable kit are we talking about here Rich? Personally it is years since I had any sort of real problem with either motorhome or car, sure the odd blind that sticks or cupboard hinge coming loose but nothing else. To design a piece of unbreakable kit is almost impossible especially if people insist on adding bits to the system without doing it properly. In most cases having a dud battery will not cause a problem, certainly if it is changed straight away and why would you not. No, modern vehicles, for the price we pay are very good value indeed and the stuff in them is all pretty good. sure it could be better but would you pay the several hundred thousand pounds it would cost to upgrade everything, I suspect not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Tracker - 2016-01-06 7:05 PM Billggski - 2016-01-06 6:37 PM An interesting thread (for saddo's like me), which raises the issue of fitting extra leisure batteries without upgrading the charging system. This seems a common "upgrade" that might have repercussions. Exacerbated by kit that simply does not do what it says on the labels for as long as it should if it were adequately designed and built! I wonder how the sort of unreliable kit we have to live with would go down with Boeing or Airbus if they made Skyhomes for wealthy worldwide wanderers and I dare say that battery charging failure would be a lot more inconvenient in a submarine than in a motorhome! I think some of your experiences are based on your desire to work your batteries to the maximum Rich. You are looking for complete autonomy, or something approaching that, from products that are not really designed to be used in that way on a permanent basis. The alternators on vans are there primarily to re-charge their starter batteries, and starter batteries discharge and re-charge fairly quickly. When the van is converted to a motorhome a habitation battery of different characteristics is added, plus a fridge that requires a constant supply in order to keep it cool. If the van has stood for a few days the starter battery will have discharged a bit, plus the starting discharge, the fridge will demand immediate supply, and a heavily discharged habitation battery (possibly 2 or more times the capacity of the starter battery, will also be demanding to be re-charged. The alternator will be working far harder than it would in the van it was designed for, and that continued operation at or near its maximum output will take its toll. It's just the same as the effect of running the engine continually at maximum power, it is getting thrashed, and its life will be shortened . Much the same is true of the battery charger, although the best treat the battery much better than an alternator can. Adding batteries, keeping the same charger, and driving the batteries hard, inevitably means that battery, alternator, and charger, all suffer. Manufacturers aren't going to add high capacity alternators, or charger packs, when most buyers don't use their vans that way, and in any case don't understand the limitations of the equipment they have. If all motorhomers knew what you know, and used their vans as you use them, the demand on the manufacturers would eventually ensure they'd have to up their equipment levels accordingly. You seldom use mains connections, so your main source of re-charging power is your alternator (not sure if you presently have a solar panel). I think you have also increased the size of your battery bank. I suspect you need a more powerful alternator, or even a second alternator dedicated to re-charging your hab batteries, working through an intelligent charger module. If solar as well, this needs to be fully integrated into the charger output, so that both sources are moderated to suit battery condition. Used within their ex-factory design limitations, or specified with the necessary added equipment, most vans fare surprisingly well. I reckon what you really need is to self-convert an ex-military communications vehicle, as I'll bet they have large battery banks, and the means to charge them fully and properly! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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