minimum payload

[Guest dave e]

Hi, my wife and I are going to buy a fixed bed low profile. Having researched those in our price range one of the main differences seems to be the MTPLM. Can anyone advise us what our MINIMUM payload should be. We aren't going full-time, but will be taking 2 to 3 month breaks, thanks.

[Guest Brian Kirby]

Dave Problem is, it ain't that simple! We have a 6 metre, fixed bed, low profile. It has a gross loading allowance of 610 Kg. That is to say no water on board, no gas, no waste, no bikes/rack, driver only - no passenger, but full fuel tank. However, that is not how the manufacturer's (should) present their unladen figures. They (should) include full water tank, one full gas bottle (of whatever size fits the locker) 75Kg per passenger (including driver's) seat, full fuel, allownace for passenger baggage etc etc. The actual basis is usually stated in the technical specification for the 'van, often in an addendum to the brochure. Before you can really decide on your optimum load allowance you really need to know how you'll use the 'van. For example, if the ones you're looking at are nominally four berth 'vans, the manufacturers should have allowed for driver + three passengers and all their luggage etc. The manufacturer's stated free load allowance, therefore, should be what is available on top of these loads. Now, if you know there will only be two of you, you can re-allocate the weights of the two missing passengers and their luggage to your free load allowance. Your shopping list may well include 2, 3 and 4 berth 'vans all on the same chassis and all with the same MTPLM. Probably, the 4 berths will have the lowest load allowance, equally probably because the additional passenger and baggage allowance has pulled it down. Unfortunately, therefore, there isn't really a short cut to analysis of the manufacturer's figures and some sums. Deduct any user loads you know you won't need, then re-allocate them to the stated free load alowance. That should at least level the playing field. Then compare the 'vans again. The next difficulty is the restriction on the individual axle loads. These aren't generally stated by manufacturers, and may be a bit more difficult to get at. What you need to know is the max permissible load on each axle (which will total more that the MTPLM for the vehicle) and the actual axle loads for the vehicle when loaded in the manner described in the brochure. You must also remember that anything you add, awning, bike rack, air conditioning, extra heaters etc all come off your free load allowance but also fall to one or other (but usually both) axles. I know this all probably sounds very off putting, but it's well worthwhile spending some time on it just to get it about right. Ideally, produce a spreadsheet to do the calculations and compare 'vans. Our own 'van weighs (weighbridge figure) 2790 Kg empty as above: the MTPLM is 3400 Kg. Our "clutter" (for trips of about the duration you mention) is about 270 Kg. I've weighed everything we take and added them together, then visited the weighbridge again to check the laden van. The figures were surprisingly accurate, so I'm confident that this is reliable for us. Free load therefore, 240 Kg. Good, not too close to the limit, so a bit in reserve for the odd goody bought while away. However, because of the internal layout, quite a lot of the load falls on the front axle. Looking individually at the axle loads (again, weighbridge checked), the max front is 1750 Kg and the max rear 1900 Kg (manufacturers plated limits). Empty as above, the starting axle loads are front 1560 Kg and rear 1230 Kg. Loaded with gas, water, bikes, clutter etc etc, these increase to 1680 Kg front and 1570 Kg rear (yet again, weighbridge checked). What you'll have noticed (if you're still awake!) is that whereas the rear axle has 330 Kg in hand, the front is down to 70 Kg. (If we take the bikes and rack off the back, the rear axle load drops but the front axle load rises. Becasue the bikes are carried behind the rear axle there is a lever effect. The actual load on the rear axle is greater than the weight of the bikes, and the difference comes off the front. Therefore, whith the bikes off, their lever is removed and the front axle load rises. In this condition, the free load on the front axle is down to 40 Kg). You don't need to do all of this to see which 'van is for you, but it is probably instructive to be aware of the way loads actually fall with different 'van layouts. As it happens, ours is a fixed front single dinette with swivel driver's and passenger's seats. Just to give you some idea of why the axle loads are important, and how deceptive first impressions can be: this layout pushes the kitchen block forward (fridge weight etc). The fresh water tank (130 litres = 130 Kg) is well within the axles so quite a lot of its weight falls on the front axle as well. What is left at the back is the bed and the washroom, both relatively light. The wardrobe is more or less over the axle, the toilet (15 litre waste tank = 15 Kg) just behind. Gas locker just ahead of rear axle (2 x 13 Kg cylinders + cylinder weight = 56 Kg) and space heater (Truma Combi 4002) more or less over the rear axle). The underbed "boot" is almost all behined the rear axle. Now, if we had a rear kitchen layout.........! What surprised me at first, was the the rear axle stays so relatively lightly laden, whereas I had been expecting all the problems to be at that end. In pracitce, it is all works just fine, but when considering what to buy, I gave quite a lot of thought to whether to pay for a rear axle upgrade to 2000 Kg. Knowing what I now know, I'm glad I didn't! Hope this helps and doesn't put you off! It's all worth it in the end, especially so as not to get the wrong 'van, so some homework is, sadly, inevitable. Regards Brian

[Guest david Lloyd]

Hi dave e How long is a piece of string? Not very helpful I know but it really does depend on how you 'live'. Do you carry a lot of books (very heavy), bikes, many clothes, dogs, toys (playstation, games etc), etc etc We have a low profile Autocruise Startraveller with a MAM (Maximum Authorised Mass - same as MTPLM in old money) of 3500kg and a TOTAL payload of 655kg (that includes the allowance for 'essential habitation equipment') and when we went to Norfolk last September for two weeks I called at a farm that had its own weighbridge so checked our weight. Fully loaded for two weeks with full water tank, half diesel tank, two bikes on a bike rack, outside chairs/table and extras such as a roll out awning, towbar, second leisure battery we were just short of 3300kg. This meant that with a two week break for two (+two dogs) we used about 455kg payload. This is not very scientific and, as I say, it depends very much on your lifestyle when motorhoming but it may give you something to think about. Incidentally, we are changing our MH this year to a fixed bed low profile - the Knaus Sun Ti 650MF - which doesn't have as big a payload as the Startraveller since it is a couple of feet longer but we have changed a few things to take account of it. We decided to stick with a 3500kg chassis due to the restrictions on speed in Europe and extra toll charges but we will still have a total payload of 560 kg - including the 163kg 'essential habitation equipment'. Good luck and enjoy the experience of searching for your ideal van. Regards, david

[Guest Yorkshire Tyke]

Hi Dave e We have a commercially converted van With afron Dinete & rear Loung/double bed that we leave permenantly as a bed Max Gross Weight is 3500kg Front Axle Load 2400kg Rear Axle load 2800kg Train weight 5500kg That means with a full load (ie the van weighs 3500kg we could legally tow up to 2000kg) Our Pay load is 1000kg Being a standard van conversion ALL the relevant inf is available from the van manufacturers The amount of pay load was given by the converters

[Guest Mel E]

All the data you need is on the vehicle plate which MUST by law be attached to the vehicle - usually under the bonnet of by the driver's footwell. It shows MAM (same as GVW/MTPLM), max load on each axle and max train wt for towing. Converter's published data on payloads are notoriously unreliable. So get your van weighed. Do this on a new van before accepting delivery and if the payload does not compare well with figures quoted when you signed the deal, you are entitled to reject is as unfit for its purpose.