towing A frame or trailer

[unicorn999]

hi cannot decide have bought a nice little peugout 108 and cannot decide to go a frame or trailer,cost of A Frame been quoted around £1300 because its a keyless start stop model needs extra wiring apparently,now if i go down this route and down the line want to sell car could affect selling price as would probably only be of intrest to motorhomers,if I go down the trailer route have heard people saying that some sites dont allow trailers or ask you to leave trailers in carparks and not on your pitch with motorhome,dont know if this is true as am new to motorhoming and looking for peoples advice

[W3526602]

Hi Unicorn,

 

So if I drive onto a campsite with a car and caravan, I can usually park both on one pitch. If I drive on with a camper and trailer, I would expect to park both on one pitch. I'm not sure what I would be charged if I drove in with a camper and caravan ... maybe dependent on how many people I was paying for, and it might be cheaper paying for two pitches.

 

If you drive in with a camper and trailer, with an extra car on the trailer, you will be looking for space for three vehicles.

 

But, if you drive in with a camper, one would expect you to only require room for one vehicle, so would be allocated a smaller pitch than a tow-car and caravan. And charged accordingly. ???

 

Me? I would go for the trailer option, as a trailer is always usefull to have, more so it it can be towed by the car it is intended to carry.

 

Silly option would be to have a car-carrying trailer hat looks like a caravan, and park your car in it every time you return to that campsite.

 

If you have a licence to drive Cat.B only, you are limited to 3,500kg combined weight. That is the MGW for both towing vehicle and it's trailer. Repeat ... COMBINED MAXIMUM GROSS WEIGHTS OF BOTH VEHICLES. If your licence does no cover that, you ain't insured.

 

602

[mildi]

We had a car on a trailer for our MH but only used this in Europe not in the UK. I am sure you may be asked to pay extra at some sites but this only happened once to us. We chose the trailer as there was no grey area about how legal it was in other countries and also no changes had to be made to the car so no issue when we wanted to sell it or buy another one. It will probably cost more to buy the trailer but you will get most of your money back when you sell it. We had a motor mover fitted to our trailer which made life very easy. The only other issue is if you have enough room to park the trailer at home.

 

One other point would be if you have the spare weight capacity for the nose weight on the tow ball and the tow bar.

[Derek Uzzell]

unicorn999 - 2018-10-17 9:19 PM

 

...am new to motorhoming and looking for peoples advice

 

I’m going to suggest again (hopefully diplomatically and as I mentioned in this earlier discussion)

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Total-Newbie/50103/

 

that you delay having your Peugeot modified for A-frame towing, or buy a trailer, until you’ve used your motorhome for a while. Your choice, of course, but unless you really need to tow a car with your motorhome, why do it?

[Brian Kirby]

unicorn999 - 2018-10-17 9:19 PM

 

hi cannot decide have bought a nice little peugout 108 and cannot decide to go a frame or trailer,cost of A Frame been quoted around £1300 because its a keyless start stop model needs extra wiring apparently,now if i go down this route and down the line want to sell car could affect selling price as would probably only be of intrest to motorhomers,if I go down the trailer route have heard people saying that some sites dont allow trailers or ask you to leave trailers in carparks and not on your pitch with motorhome,dont know if this is true as am new to motorhoming and looking for peoples advice

If you are considering using your motorhome abroad and towing your can on an A-frame, especially to Spain, you will be courting trouble. The laws on towing another vehicle abroad are not the same as in the UK. Simply stated, the practise is illegal in France and Spain, possibly elsewhere. The French seem to have agreed to overlook this infringement where foreign registered vehicles are concerned, but the Spanish have not, although the response is not uniform across the whole of Spain due, apparently, to differences in the way the various branches of the Spanish police enforce traffic law.

[witzend]

I'd go for the trailer as it can be very useful for many other jobs. Easier to reverse than a A frame which is practically impossible. But if you have another driver for the car why not drive it where your going at least as already suggested until your sure you need it

[Rayjsj]

witzend - 2018-10-18 9:58 PM

 

I'd go for the trailer as it can be very useful for many other jobs. Easier to reverse than a A frame which is practically impossible. But if you have another driver for the car why not drive it where your going at least as already suggested until your sure you need it

 

No its not impossible to reverse with an A Frame, I towed our Toyota Yaris on a Car-a-tow A frame for 3 years, with never a single problem. And reversed with it many times, for long reverses, locking of the overrun hitch meant a smoother run, but still possible for a cars length approx.

Now have a PVC, and took off the conversion on the Yaris which is back as our day to day runabout.

A frame sold for almost the price i paid for it (second hand from E bay).

NEVER tried to A Frame n the Continent. Only in the UK.

A Frame much cheaper than a trailer.....both second hand.

I just didnt have the load margin for a trailer AND a car. Worked for me.

[Derek Uzzell]

Personally, I’d be wary of towing a car (on a trailer or on an A-frame) with a 1998 Herald “Squire” - which I assume is what unicorn999 has.

 

My 1996-built Herald Templar was on the same Transit chassis as the Squire and had a similar overcab configuration. Despite having double-leaf rear springs and a rear anti-sway bar, the Templar’s ride was soft (pehaps not wallowy, but getting there) and the vehicle was decidedly unpleasant to drive in strong cross-winds.

 

Obviously I don’t know what tyres unicorn999’s Herald has nowadays, but in the late 1990s Transits used to have 225/70 R15C 6-ply-rated tyres as standard. If I were going to tow a car with a 1998 Herald motorhome I’d want tyres with a Load Index of at least 112 and I’d also want to firm up the rear suspension by adding air-assistance, which was a sensible modification Herald owners often made even when not towing.

 

While there are pros and cons of using a motorhome to tow a car either on a trailer or on a A-frame, I suggest that it’s more immediately important to consider the advisability of towing a car at all with a Herald Squire.

[flicka]

Fitting a towbar then adding an A frame or car trailer is an expensive exercise & would cover the cost of many days car hire once at your destination.

If cost of tow car purchase, insurance, RFL & maintenance, etc., are also taken into consideration, the economics of towing don't add up for me.

[Brian Kirby]

Agreed Derek. Also, do you happen to remember the towing limits for a Transit of that vintage? Modern cars are relatively heavy, as are trailers suitable to transport them.

 

I have no idea whether this Herald conversion has much of a rear overhang, or whether any such overhang might have been supported on a chassis extension (or what condition that may now be in!), but it seems possible that even if the towing limit is adequate, and assuming there is a chassis extension, it would not have been designed to carry a towbar, and/or that a suitable "off the shelf" towbar may not be available. If not, it may be possible to obtain a purpose-made towbar, but this may create rear ground clearance and axle load problems.

 

I think unicorn would be well advised to check these further factors before beginning to dispense his "hard earned"!

[StuartO]

I have towed using both A Frame and trailer and now do neither. A Frame has many fans but I found it cumbersome to hitch up and didn’t persist. Trailer worked well for several years, mostly abroad and was definitely easier and less costly overall but we have now reverted to motorhoming unattached, which is less burdensome and more flexible.  Towing with a single axle trailer is easy enough but really restricts you when it comes to using Aires. 

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2018-10-19 10:50 AM

 

Agreed Derek. Also, do you happen to remember the towing limits for a Transit of that vintage? Modern cars are relatively heavy, as are trailers suitable to transport them.

 

I have no idea whether this Herald conversion has much of a rear overhang, or whether any such overhang might have been supported on a chassis extension (or what condition that may now be in!), but it seems possible that even if the towing limit is adequate, and assuming there is a chassis extension, it would not have been designed to carry a towbar, and/or that a suitable "off the shelf" towbar may not be available. If not, it may be possible to obtain a purpose-made towbar, but this may create rear ground clearance and axle load problems.

 

I think unicorn would be well advised to check these further factors before beginning to dispense his "hard earned"!

 

I can’t remember if my Herald Templar had a specific trailer-weight limit (as I wasn’t going to tow with it, it didn’t interest me).

 

I believe all late-1990s Heralds had a 3300kg MAM and that the longerst Squire was about 6 metres in length. I suspect that, being on a RWD Transit ’truck’ chassis, the weight of a Peugeot 108 on a trailer would not be a restricting factor.

 

There was a number of Squire models, but the rear overhang of none of them was excessive. My 6m-long Templar had no chassis extension, so Squires may not have an extension either. As Squires had no rear bumper as such, owners often added a protective ‘bar’ (photos on this advert)

 

http://www.autoview.co.uk/sherwood/index/view/FORD/COMPASS/2602/

 

that also allowed a tow-ball to be fitted.

 

There’s an owner review of a 1999 Squire 400E here:

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/reviews/motorhomes/details/herald-squire-400e-motorhome-review/899512

 

If it were known exactly which Herald model unicorn999 owns (originally stated as a Herald “Sprite” that, to the best of my knowledge, is wrong) it might be easier to provide ’technical’ comments.

[blaven]

With our propensity for taking the occasional wrong turning and ending up having to execute three-point turns (and worse), towing anything with the old Murvi would hasten me to an early grave.

The idea of towing one’s toys is an attractive one, and one I’ve considered, but the harsh reality brings me down to earth.

I do occasionally look enviously at those of you who do this and the flexibility of having a minicar at your disposal at your destination, and then I think............Nah.

[Guest pelmetman]

For info my 1990 transit has a Gross train weight of 3.5 tons ;-) ........

 

Which is why I had my new box trailer plaited at 730kg :-| ......

 

As I'd heard some foreign plod only added the numbers on the plaits as they don't have the ability to weigh you *-) ........

 

So mine adds up to 3.5 tons combined :D ........

 

It's a minefield out there 8-) ........and I've stepped on quite a few......to my cost *-) .......

 

Mostly after I joined this forum :'( ........

 

Where as before....... I'd travelled in blissful ignorance for years :-S ........

 

 

[Will86]

pelmetman - 2018-10-19 5:21 PM

 

It's a minefield out there 8-) ........and I've stepped on quite a few......to my cost *-) .......

 

Mostly after I joined this forum :'( ........

 

Where as before....... I'd travelled in blissful ignorance for years :-S ........

 

 

Should have stayed with Specsavers :D

[Derek Uzzell]

pelmetman - 2018-10-19 5:21 PM

 

For info my 1990 transit has a Gross train weight of 3.5 tons ;-) ........

 

 

Ford-based Heralds were built on Transit Mk 4 or Mk 5 RWD chassis, normally the “150” chassis with a 3300kg MAM, though some ‘end of series’ Heralds may have moved to the “190” chassis with a 3500kg MAM.

 

Advice on the Ford Transit forum is that the towing limit for these chassis was 2000kg for vehicles with 6 stud wheels or 1500kg if they had 5 stud wheels, and I’m pretty sure my Herald Templar had the former.

 

Unicorn999 could confirm the MAM and Gross Train Weight of his motorhome by referring to its Ford VIN-plate (explanation here)

 

https://www.caravantalk.co.uk/community/topic/70899-vin-plate-weights/

[tonyishuk]

flicka - 2018-10-19 10:42 AM

 

Fitting a towbar then adding an A frame or car trailer is an expensive exercise & would cover the cost of many days car hire once at your destination.

If cost of tow car purchase, insurance, RFL & maintenance, etc., are also taken into consideration, the economics of towing don't add up for me.

 

I would have agreed with until our experience with hiring from Enterprise through CMHClub. We had a car parking ding a fractionally larger than their ding measurer. Despite our protests and one representative out of three agreeing with us that the ding was within tolerance. (Or a well managed act practiced by Enterprise) cost us just over £500 ! I reckoned the chip n repair man would have charged less than £100. And I dare say the car is running around with ding to catch the next unwary hirer?

 

Pays to take out independent car hire insurance !

 

Rgds

[crocs]

tonyishuk - 2018-10-19 7:43 PM

 

flicka - 2018-10-19 10:42 AM

 

Fitting a towbar then adding an A frame or car trailer is an expensive exercise & would cover the cost of many days car hire once at your destination.

If cost of tow car purchase, insurance, RFL & maintenance, etc., are also taken into consideration, the economics of towing don't add up for me.

 

I would have agreed with until our experience with hiring from Enterprise through CMHClub. We had a car parking ding a fractionally larger than their ding measurer. Despite our protests and one representative out of three agreeing with us that the ding was within tolerance. (Or a well managed act practiced by Enterprise) cost us just over £500 ! I reckoned the chip n repair man would have charged less than £100. And I dare say the car is running around with ding to catch the next unwary hirer?

 

Pays to take out independent car hire insurance !

 

Rgds

 

Yes, I always take out an annual hire car excess insurance from Insurance4CarHire. Only costs c£40 a year compared with £15 a day from hire companies.

[crocs]

flicka - 2018-10-19 10:42 AM

 

Fitting a towbar then adding an A frame or car trailer is an expensive exercise & would cover the cost of many days car hire once at your destination.

If cost of tow car purchase, insurance, RFL & maintenance, etc., are also taken into consideration, the economics of towing don't add up for me.

 

I guess some people will use the toad as a second car anyway, so the only additional cost is the towbar and the depreciation cost of a trailer which, in the scheme of things, isn’t a great deal. I used one for six years and sold the trailer for £400 less than purchase - c£70 a year.

[Rayjsj]

crocs - 2018-10-19 8:48 PM

 

flicka - 2018-10-19 10:42 AM

 

Fitting a towbar then adding an A frame or car trailer is an expensive exercise & would cover the cost of many days car hire once at your destination.

If cost of tow car purchase, insurance, RFL & maintenance, etc., are also taken into consideration, the economics of towing don't add up for me.

 

I guess some people will use the toad as a second car anyway, so the only additional cost is the towbar and the depreciation cost of a trailer which, in the scheme of things, isn’t a great deal. I used one for six years and sold the trailer for £400 less than purchase - c£70 a year.

Totally concur, thats my experience too. Only expense was getting our car converted for towing by A Frame.

A Frame was £200 almost new, on E Bay, and car was our main car, Insurance was fully comprehensive through the Caravan club, covered for ALL possibilities. Attached and solo.

Saved me a fortune in Enterprise rental costs.