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The EU vote
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userDuncan MMM
Posted: 29 February 2016 3:44 PM
Subject: The EU vote
 
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With the UK vote set for June 23, the question is, are you in favour of the UK leaving the EU or staying in. Have your say and vote now.
userpelmetman
Posted: 29 February 2016 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: ---
 


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Bet you can't guess how I voted ..........

userStuartO
Posted: 29 February 2016 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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I was thinking that I had decided - but having listened to IDS this Sunday I'm back to wavering.  I still think the Leave campaign have to explain why we must leave NOW, when as I see it we could leave at any time in the future, should the circumstances call for it,by which time we might also be better prepared. 

Any Country which didn't want to stay could leave and there is even a procedure in the Treaty for doing so - and how could any country be prevented from leaving if they were determined to do so?  We're not contemplating Franco/German legions marching on recalcitrant countries are we?

So why now, when we've just given the EU a worthwhile nudge towards proper reform?


Edited by StuartO 2016-02-29 4:23 PM
userTracker
Posted: 29 February 2016 4:32 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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StuartO - 2016-02-29 4:22 PM
So why now, when we've just given the EU a worthwhile nudge towards proper reform


This is too important to decide before we know a lot more detail but whether we will ever be allowed to know that detail is another matter?

Why leave now? Because it may be another 40 years before any government gives us another chance to bail out?

Proper reform would appear to be something the EU has no stomach for - too many noses in too many troughs to allow it?

Undecided of Evesham - but still outwardly leaning!!
userspospe
Posted: 29 February 2016 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 February 2016 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Tracker - 2016-02-29 4:32 PM.............Why leave now? Because it may be another 40 years before any government gives us another chance to bail out?.....................

I would expect any government that became convinced membership was against our interests to decide to leave without further consultation. It is, after all, what they are paid for.

This referendum is, IMO, not about the EU at all, but about trying to settle differences within the Conservative party (unlikely to succeed, IMO).

Instead of running a referendum because they couldn't get to an agreed position on continuing membership of the EU, the government should have accepted that a split is inevitable, declared its position, replaced the dissenters in the cabinet, and let the natural process take place. Then, with the split formalised, call an election. At least that would have been honest.
userpelmetman
Posted: 29 February 2016 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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What I find curious is the SNP's stance.......They don't want to be part of the UK, but do want to be part of the EU?..........Does the EU give them an even bigger bung than the UK taxpayer? .....

userRayjsj
Posted: 29 February 2016 6:28 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



I think that Goodwill from the EU is in very short supply, even before the referendum was mentioned, I also think a lot of your assumptions about retirement and second homes are incorrect. I would also rather we increased our trade with the USA and other English speaking Nations like Canada,Australia and N.Zealand.
I am firmly in the out camp. (and my eyes don't swivel, beyond the normal that is).

Edited by Rayjsj 2016-02-29 6:30 PM
usernowtelse2do
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



In 2014 our exports to the EU was 46.6%. Imports from the EU were 53.2%. Our exports are still falling.

The majority of our holidays are indeed to the EU and that will continue. Most of that to Spain and France, I don't think they will be eager to lose that.

Again Spain and France are the largest to benefit from our pensioners, and those wealthy enough to live over there either full or part of the time, and they will pay some taxes and also they will spend their pensions and holiday money.

We have a voice but it's never listened to. We have a vote.....what's it for?

The E U will have to depend on our goodwill if we're out. reffer to our import and export gap and our overseas tourists contributions.

Nothing to be afraid of by leaving.

Dave
userPJay
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:44 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Rayjsj - 2016-02-29 6:28 PM

spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



I think that Goodwill from the EU is in very short supply, even before the referendum was mentioned, I also think a lot of your assumptions about retirement and second homes are incorrect. I would also rather we increased our trade with the USA and other English speaking Nations like Canada,Australia and N.Zealand.
I am firmly in the out camp. (and my eyes don't swivel, beyond the normal that is).


Never thought I would agree with a welshman , but I do, . Well spoken that man
Why do so many Brits emigrate to OZ and NZ and Canada. Think we could be better off going back to our fellow ENGLISH speaking friends!!
PJay

Edited by PJay 2016-02-29 8:46 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:45 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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I see the pound went up today against the euro........dam that's going to annoy the scaremongers .....

userpelmetman
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:49 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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It's not just me then .......

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/648105/Revealed-secret-map-continent-doomed-EU-Europe

userviolet1
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Without doubt we must stay in.
usersnowie
Posted: 29 February 2016 9:44 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Brian Kirby - 2016-02-29 5:51 PM


This referendum is, IMO, not about the EU at all, but about trying to settle differences within the Conservative party (unlikely to succeed, IMO).

Instead of running a referendum because they couldn't get to an agreed position on continuing membership of the EU, the government should have accepted that a split is inevitable, declared its position, replaced the dissenters in the cabinet, and let the natural process take place. Then, with the split formalised, call an election. At least that would have been honest.


How right you are Brian; but expecting the Tories to split apart, call an election and surrender power (sadly not much of a risk at the moment), you can't really be serious.
I just wonder how much longer the Eurozone countries will continue to give a damn wether we stay or go.
I wouldn't blame them.
regards
alan b
userpelmetman
Posted: 2 March 2016 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Pounds gone up again ......

userpelmetman
Posted: 2 March 2016 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Now its at 1.30€ to the pound.........All this scaremongering is doing wonders ......

userpelmetman
Posted: 3 March 2016 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Back down to 1.29 ..........Due to weak manufacturing figures........so I guess its my fault ......

userterry1956
Posted: 12 March 2016 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



get real. when have the EU ever given the UK a say. Not once is the answer. the EU as destroyed the fishing industry in this country. many good companies have left the UK due to the plain silly carbon laws that we signed up to. the steel industry as almost gone, along with most industry in this country. OK I know that some of this is due to the great brain tony lying and useless brown. but look at the facts. the Euro one size fits all does not work leaving many country's unable to adjust to their market forces. the amount of red tape is costing us billions each year. the EU wastes money look at the 61 million to look into classic mot,s . and nothing done. look at the money they keep asking for from the UK. a billion and a billion there over and above the 55 million we give them each year. and then we come onto uncontrolled immigrants. I live in Yeovil and its getting more like a battlefield by the week as drunk eastern Europeans fight with locals. and how many car washes and big issue sellers does this country need.
I too have a 2nd home in France and have done so for 14 years. and I still want my country free from the useless sods in the EU.
userpelmetman
Posted: 12 March 2016 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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terry1956 - 2016-03-12 7:51 PM
look at the money they keep asking for from the UK. a billion and a billion there over and above the 55 million we give them each year.


Point of order M'lud .......That's 55 million per day ......

userPJay
Posted: 13 March 2016 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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terry1956 - 2016-03-12 7:51 PM

spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



get real. when have the EU ever given the UK a say. Not once is the answer. the EU as destroyed the fishing industry in this country. many good companies have left the UK due to the plain silly carbon laws that we signed up to. the steel industry as almost gone, along with most industry in this country. OK I know that some of this is due to the great brain tony lying and useless brown. but look at the facts. the Euro one size fits all does not work leaving many country's unable to adjust to their market forces. the amount of red tape is costing us billions each year. the EU wastes money look at the 61 million to look into classic mot,s . and nothing done. look at the money they keep asking for from the UK. a billion and a billion there over and above the 55 million we give them each year. and then we come onto uncontrolled immigrants. I live in Yeovil and its getting more like a battlefield by the week as drunk eastern Europeans fight with locals. and how many car washes and big issue sellers does this country need.
I too have a 2nd home in France and have done so for 14 years. and I still want my country free from the useless sods in the EU.


Well said Terry, but how will it effect second home owners, if we come out?
But I suppose we could then send all the illegals back ASAP?
userterry1956
Posted: 13 March 2016 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Hi. I am a second home owner and have owned a house in Normandy for over 14 years. at the moment I have the house on the market but there is know interest as most people in France don't have any money due to the mad left wing nut job Hollande. His idea of over taxing the rich and imposing even madder green taxes as lead to a total lack of investment in the country and a lot of unemployment as companies failing the mass of employment laws fall back on employment agents for staff, a bit like the rise in zero hours contacts in this country. anyway how will second home ownership work out. It will take two years to pull out of EU. in that time nothing will change for sure. after that I would think that for France two thinks will happen. the first is that the likes of Hollande will impose higher rates of taxes on none French home ownership for the brits ( the French did have a go at this when Brown was PM as he wanted more taxes from 2nd home owners both here in the UK and within the EU.) the second thing that may happen is the rise of the far right mainly due to the uncontrolled immigration and a feeling of helplessness that is coming over Europeans as a whole. again I think it will be a rise of taxes.
at the moment the French housing market is in free fall. high unemployment and high taxes will have that effect. my house is worth about the same now as I paid 14 years back. for me if I had to give the place away to get my country back I would be happy to do so. if we remain in its good bye England, its history, laws the lot. and for what, gay rights, women's rights and watching fools setting outside coffee houses in the cold and rain thinking they are Europeans in Paris. give me a pint of good beer and a log fire anyday.
michael
userderek pringle
Posted: 22 March 2016 9:18 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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hi all,
Can anyone think that the UK will ever have a real say in the EU whilst we are not what I would call FULL members now. One would assume that all the major decisions and discussions will be determined by countries tied in to both the Euro and Schengen. Just because we are around the table does not mean we are a major influence.
Maybe this vote should have been based on completely IN or Completely OUT, half in makes me think even the the 'remainers' do not fully believe in the EU.
The latest fiasco with the PM and Chancellor instinctively puts me against anything they recommend.
cheers
derek
userPJay
Posted: 22 March 2016 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Maybe this bombing in Brussels to-day, will make them think again about putting back borders!
This could be the reality check , that makes them think?? Nothing like something close to home !

We have had a leaflet to-day advising why we should stay in, though the post. Guess we will get one from the "out" brigade next. Then what about the "sitting on the fence" brigade?
PJay
userKnaus
Posted: 29 March 2016 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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I never voted to go in. I am not a European. We survived perfectly well for many years without the EU making our laws etc. I am voting out.
userpelmetman
Posted: 30 March 2016 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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What I find curious is that every online poll such as this show a thumping lead of 70%+ for the leave camp

Yet we keep being told by the polling companies that its neck and neck? .......

But there again they did predict a hung Parliament to .......


uservino
Posted: 30 March 2016 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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I believe we have to leave the EU as we have lost all power and reputation and the package Cameron has brought home will be scuppered by the Legals (after the Event) and then we WILL be stuffed

we are the fifth wealthiest nation in the World -we are considered to be fair and just and reasonably 'Legal' - Europe is in turmoil - one policy does not fit all - the answer is not in' politics' but in social and economic reforms

Immigration, Isis and the Far Right will shape the near future policies and with little or no respect in Brussels the UK will have to comply with the rest of Europe and their 'political' concerns

I sincerely believe that we need to come out now BUT in the future we will become again an intricate and very essential partner in the New Europe as with the ascendancy of Russia, China, Brazil and of course USA we cannot stand alone




usermalc d
Posted: 31 March 2016 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Knaus - 2016-03-29 9:25 PM

We survived perfectly well for many years without the EU making our laws etc. .




That's if you don't count the two appalling wars in Europe in the first half of the last century.

userpkc
Posted: 3 April 2016 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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What an interesting debate,
I've been musing it over, and will if I may put in my pennies worth.
I think that Brian has put his finger on the really important point in this debate.
Why have the referendum, why?
Driven by Cameron's concerns about the voting tactics of a small number of his ultra right wing Members an idea to placate any revolt was born.
The increasing popularity of the UKIP party with its real threat to the country's marginal seats fed this concern until it reached a level never dreamed of, and has turned into a nightmare that threatens to split the Nation.
Putting aside the matter of how much we pay or don't pay to be a member, choose your own statistics, and the usual hand wringing about Sovereignty, what ever that is perceived to be.
Half the people down the pub seem to think it is something to do with getting rid of the Queen.
Perhaps I should change my pub.
I think there are much more important points to be considered.
The possible effect of exit on this country has been so mauled by spin and counter spin it is virtually impossible for the average guy to see the real truth of the case, even if it possible at all to reach an exact determination given the vast number of possible scenarios.
What I consider to be just as important in this debate, and which seemed to have been ignored is what will be the effects on the remaining members of the community?
I quite like that word community, to me it means a coming together of a number of separate entities for their common good, even if that means that some gain and some lose a little, but that is just me.
A couple of thoughts that occurred to me about the historical advantage of the ever closer cooperation of independent states.
If the United States had remained a number of separate states would they have been able or wished to come to our aid in the Second World War?
Would a collection of separate Russian states have been able to resist the German offensive?
If the answer is no, what then? Hypothetical? Possibly, but it does no harm to muse I think.

I think there are questions about what happens after a out result that nobody seems to have asked let alone answered.
When Bojo and Co with their water cannons have replaced the Chuckle Brothers in Downing Street, what will happen on the borders of Scotland when they vote for separation, which they inevitably would, will we all be nipping over the border with our passports to do our shopping?
Will the cattle rustling merry-go-round at the border of Eire and Northern Ireland resume to take advantage of the different subsidies? Of course the French will continue to finance the Jungle immigrant camps and the passport checks surely? So no pressure there then.
The thorny question of immigration swept away at a stroke?
Possibly not. Even if we walk away from the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, can we likewise walk away from our obligations to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which interprets the European Convention on Human Rights and is completely separate?
I haven't the faintest idea. More frightening I don't think the clods who will have to deal with these issues have either.
Truly. Those who the clods would destroy they first make mad.

From its beginnings in the Iron and Steel Community (there's that word again) the main idea alluded to by Malc D was to prevent the possibility of conflict between members, and less overtly possibly to reduce the possibility of a resurgence of rampant German nationalism, while it is impossible to prove a negative it appears to have succeeded in that respect.

The community after a UK exit would be greatly weakened, possibly fatally, other members may possibly follow in our footsteps like falling dominos until final collapse, who would then be the driving power in Europe to deal with a more aggressive Russian stance?
One should be careful what one wishes for, and even more careful what one votes for.
Please don't think I am being anti German here, I am a great admirer, no country has done more to eradicate the sins of their past then the German people, we could take lessons.
Having spent a large part of my time on the continent over the years, the feeling I get from our friends over the channel is a real concern over the possible exit of the U.K.
A lot of them seem to think we are quite mad, I tend to agree.
Cheers.

userpelmetman
Posted: 3 April 2016 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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pkc - 2016-04-03 9:22 AM

What an interesting debate,
I've been musing it over, and will if I may put in my pennies worth.
I think that Brian has put his finger on the really important point in this debate.
Why have the referendum, why?
Driven by Cameron's concerns about the voting tactics of a small number of his ultra right wing Members an idea to placate any revolt was born.
The increasing popularity of the UKIP party with its real threat to the country's marginal seats fed this concern until it reached a level never dreamed of, and has turned into a nightmare that threatens to split the Nation.
Putting aside the matter of how much we pay or don't pay to be a member, choose your own statistics, and the usual hand wringing about Sovereignty, what ever that is perceived to be.
Half the people down the pub seem to think it is something to do with getting rid of the Queen.
Perhaps I should change my pub.
I think there are much more important points to be considered.
The possible effect of exit on this country has been so mauled by spin and counter spin it is virtually impossible for the average guy to see the real truth of the case, even if it possible at all to reach an exact determination given the vast number of possible scenarios.
What I consider to be just as important in this debate, and which seemed to have been ignored is what will be the effects on the remaining members of the community?
I quite like that word community, to me it means a coming together of a number of separate entities for their common good, even if that means that some gain and some lose a little, but that is just me.
A couple of thoughts that occurred to me about the historical advantage of the ever closer cooperation of independent states.
If the United States had remained a number of separate states would they have been able or wished to come to our aid in the Second World War?
Would a collection of separate Russian states have been able to resist the German offensive?
If the answer is no, what then? Hypothetical? Possibly, but it does no harm to muse I think.

I think there are questions about what happens after a out result that nobody seems to have asked let alone answered.
When Bojo and Co with their water cannons have replaced the Chuckle Brothers in Downing Street, what will happen on the borders of Scotland when they vote for separation, which they inevitably would, will we all be nipping over the border with our passports to do our shopping?
Will the cattle rustling merry-go-round at the border of Eire and Northern Ireland resume to take advantage of the different subsidies? Of course the French will continue to finance the Jungle immigrant camps and the passport checks surely? So no pressure there then.
The thorny question of immigration swept away at a stroke?
Possibly not. Even if we walk away from the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, can we likewise walk away from our obligations to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which interprets the European Convention on Human Rights and is completely separate?
I haven't the faintest idea. More frightening I don't think the clods who will have to deal with these issues have either.
Truly. Those who the clods would destroy they first make mad.

From its beginnings in the Iron and Steel Community (there's that word again) the main idea alluded to by Malc D was to prevent the possibility of conflict between members, and less overtly possibly to reduce the possibility of a resurgence of rampant German nationalism, while it is impossible to prove a negative it appears to have succeeded in that respect.

The community after a UK exit would be greatly weakened, possibly fatally, other members may possibly follow in our footsteps like falling dominos until final collapse, who would then be the driving power in Europe to deal with a more aggressive Russian stance?
One should be careful what one wishes for, and even more careful what one votes for.
Please don't think I am being anti German here, I am a great admirer, no country has done more to eradicate the sins of their past then the German people, we could take lessons.
Having spent a large part of my time on the continent over the years, the feeling I get from our friends over the channel is a real concern over the possible exit of the U.K.
A lot of them seem to think we are quite mad, I tend to agree.
Cheers.



Very nice cuddly and inclusive word "Community" ...........

But where is the community in constantly being outvoted by a clique of self serving country's?........I prefer the word "Reality" ........and the reality of the EU empire building is a Titanic exercise in incompetence .......which I hope to help drive into the iceberg .......

As for fears of another world war.......that's already started, and its not between countries but ideologies, and as usual EU incompetence, is aiding rather than preventing attacks by those who would see our way of life and cultures destroyed ............

userpkc
Posted: 3 April 2016 10:56 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Self serving. Well I think all states are guilty of that charge Dave,
Pounds gone down again, are you up to something else that your not telling us about?
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