Sticky The EU vote
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Leave the EU 127 Votes - [67.2%]
 
Remain in the EU 62 Votes - [32.8%]
 

userDuncan MMM
Posted: 29 February 2016 3:44 PM
Subject: The EU vote
 
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With the UK vote set for June 23, the question is, are you in favour of the UK leaving the EU or staying in. Have your say and vote now.
userpelmetman
Posted: 29 February 2016 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: ---
 


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Bet you can't guess how I voted ..........

userStuartO
Posted: 29 February 2016 4:22 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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I was thinking that I had decided - but having listened to IDS this Sunday I'm back to wavering.  I still think the Leave campaign have to explain why we must leave NOW, when as I see it we could leave at any time in the future, should the circumstances call for it,by which time we might also be better prepared. 

Any Country which didn't want to stay could leave and there is even a procedure in the Treaty for doing so - and how could any country be prevented from leaving if they were determined to do so?  We're not contemplating Franco/German legions marching on recalcitrant countries are we?

So why now, when we've just given the EU a worthwhile nudge towards proper reform?


Edited by StuartO 2016-02-29 4:23 PM
userTracker
Posted: 29 February 2016 4:32 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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StuartO - 2016-02-29 4:22 PM
So why now, when we've just given the EU a worthwhile nudge towards proper reform


This is too important to decide before we know a lot more detail but whether we will ever be allowed to know that detail is another matter?

Why leave now? Because it may be another 40 years before any government gives us another chance to bail out?

Proper reform would appear to be something the EU has no stomach for - too many noses in too many troughs to allow it?

Undecided of Evesham - but still outwardly leaning!!
userspospe
Posted: 29 February 2016 4:35 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 February 2016 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Tracker - 2016-02-29 4:32 PM.............Why leave now? Because it may be another 40 years before any government gives us another chance to bail out?.....................

I would expect any government that became convinced membership was against our interests to decide to leave without further consultation. It is, after all, what they are paid for.

This referendum is, IMO, not about the EU at all, but about trying to settle differences within the Conservative party (unlikely to succeed, IMO).

Instead of running a referendum because they couldn't get to an agreed position on continuing membership of the EU, the government should have accepted that a split is inevitable, declared its position, replaced the dissenters in the cabinet, and let the natural process take place. Then, with the split formalised, call an election. At least that would have been honest.
userpelmetman
Posted: 29 February 2016 6:22 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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What I find curious is the SNP's stance.......They don't want to be part of the UK, but do want to be part of the EU?..........Does the EU give them an even bigger bung than the UK taxpayer? .....

userRayjsj
Posted: 29 February 2016 6:28 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



I think that Goodwill from the EU is in very short supply, even before the referendum was mentioned, I also think a lot of your assumptions about retirement and second homes are incorrect. I would also rather we increased our trade with the USA and other English speaking Nations like Canada,Australia and N.Zealand.
I am firmly in the out camp. (and my eyes don't swivel, beyond the normal that is).

Edited by Rayjsj 2016-02-29 6:30 PM
usernowtelse2do
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



In 2014 our exports to the EU was 46.6%. Imports from the EU were 53.2%. Our exports are still falling.

The majority of our holidays are indeed to the EU and that will continue. Most of that to Spain and France, I don't think they will be eager to lose that.

Again Spain and France are the largest to benefit from our pensioners, and those wealthy enough to live over there either full or part of the time, and they will pay some taxes and also they will spend their pensions and holiday money.

We have a voice but it's never listened to. We have a vote.....what's it for?

The E U will have to depend on our goodwill if we're out. reffer to our import and export gap and our overseas tourists contributions.

Nothing to be afraid of by leaving.

Dave
userPJay
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:44 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Rayjsj - 2016-02-29 6:28 PM

spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



I think that Goodwill from the EU is in very short supply, even before the referendum was mentioned, I also think a lot of your assumptions about retirement and second homes are incorrect. I would also rather we increased our trade with the USA and other English speaking Nations like Canada,Australia and N.Zealand.
I am firmly in the out camp. (and my eyes don't swivel, beyond the normal that is).


Never thought I would agree with a welshman , but I do, . Well spoken that man
Why do so many Brits emigrate to OZ and NZ and Canada. Think we could be better off going back to our fellow ENGLISH speaking friends!!
PJay

Edited by PJay 2016-02-29 8:46 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:45 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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I see the pound went up today against the euro........dam that's going to annoy the scaremongers .....

userpelmetman
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:49 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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It's not just me then .......

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/648105/Revealed-secret-map-continent-doomed-EU-Europe

userviolet1
Posted: 29 February 2016 8:50 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Without doubt we must stay in.
usersnowie
Posted: 29 February 2016 9:44 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Brian Kirby - 2016-02-29 5:51 PM


This referendum is, IMO, not about the EU at all, but about trying to settle differences within the Conservative party (unlikely to succeed, IMO).

Instead of running a referendum because they couldn't get to an agreed position on continuing membership of the EU, the government should have accepted that a split is inevitable, declared its position, replaced the dissenters in the cabinet, and let the natural process take place. Then, with the split formalised, call an election. At least that would have been honest.


How right you are Brian; but expecting the Tories to split apart, call an election and surrender power (sadly not much of a risk at the moment), you can't really be serious.
I just wonder how much longer the Eurozone countries will continue to give a damn wether we stay or go.
I wouldn't blame them.
regards
alan b
userpelmetman
Posted: 2 March 2016 11:37 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Pounds gone up again ......

userpelmetman
Posted: 2 March 2016 7:24 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Now its at 1.30€ to the pound.........All this scaremongering is doing wonders ......

userpelmetman
Posted: 3 March 2016 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Back down to 1.29 ..........Due to weak manufacturing figures........so I guess its my fault ......

userterry1956
Posted: 12 March 2016 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



get real. when have the EU ever given the UK a say. Not once is the answer. the EU as destroyed the fishing industry in this country. many good companies have left the UK due to the plain silly carbon laws that we signed up to. the steel industry as almost gone, along with most industry in this country. OK I know that some of this is due to the great brain tony lying and useless brown. but look at the facts. the Euro one size fits all does not work leaving many country's unable to adjust to their market forces. the amount of red tape is costing us billions each year. the EU wastes money look at the 61 million to look into classic mot,s . and nothing done. look at the money they keep asking for from the UK. a billion and a billion there over and above the 55 million we give them each year. and then we come onto uncontrolled immigrants. I live in Yeovil and its getting more like a battlefield by the week as drunk eastern Europeans fight with locals. and how many car washes and big issue sellers does this country need.
I too have a 2nd home in France and have done so for 14 years. and I still want my country free from the useless sods in the EU.
userpelmetman
Posted: 12 March 2016 8:30 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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terry1956 - 2016-03-12 7:51 PM
look at the money they keep asking for from the UK. a billion and a billion there over and above the 55 million we give them each year.


Point of order M'lud .......That's 55 million per day ......

userPJay
Posted: 13 March 2016 10:42 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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terry1956 - 2016-03-12 7:51 PM

spospe - 2016-02-29 4:35 PM

Our closest neighbours are EU states. The majority of our trade is with EU states. The majority of our holiday destinations are in EU states. The majority of our retirement homes and second homes are in EU states.

If we are in the EU we have a voice and a vote.

If we are out of the EU we are dependant on goodwill.



get real. when have the EU ever given the UK a say. Not once is the answer. the EU as destroyed the fishing industry in this country. many good companies have left the UK due to the plain silly carbon laws that we signed up to. the steel industry as almost gone, along with most industry in this country. OK I know that some of this is due to the great brain tony lying and useless brown. but look at the facts. the Euro one size fits all does not work leaving many country's unable to adjust to their market forces. the amount of red tape is costing us billions each year. the EU wastes money look at the 61 million to look into classic mot,s . and nothing done. look at the money they keep asking for from the UK. a billion and a billion there over and above the 55 million we give them each year. and then we come onto uncontrolled immigrants. I live in Yeovil and its getting more like a battlefield by the week as drunk eastern Europeans fight with locals. and how many car washes and big issue sellers does this country need.
I too have a 2nd home in France and have done so for 14 years. and I still want my country free from the useless sods in the EU.


Well said Terry, but how will it effect second home owners, if we come out?
But I suppose we could then send all the illegals back ASAP?
userterry1956
Posted: 13 March 2016 1:15 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Hi. I am a second home owner and have owned a house in Normandy for over 14 years. at the moment I have the house on the market but there is know interest as most people in France don't have any money due to the mad left wing nut job Hollande. His idea of over taxing the rich and imposing even madder green taxes as lead to a total lack of investment in the country and a lot of unemployment as companies failing the mass of employment laws fall back on employment agents for staff, a bit like the rise in zero hours contacts in this country. anyway how will second home ownership work out. It will take two years to pull out of EU. in that time nothing will change for sure. after that I would think that for France two thinks will happen. the first is that the likes of Hollande will impose higher rates of taxes on none French home ownership for the brits ( the French did have a go at this when Brown was PM as he wanted more taxes from 2nd home owners both here in the UK and within the EU.) the second thing that may happen is the rise of the far right mainly due to the uncontrolled immigration and a feeling of helplessness that is coming over Europeans as a whole. again I think it will be a rise of taxes.
at the moment the French housing market is in free fall. high unemployment and high taxes will have that effect. my house is worth about the same now as I paid 14 years back. for me if I had to give the place away to get my country back I would be happy to do so. if we remain in its good bye England, its history, laws the lot. and for what, gay rights, women's rights and watching fools setting outside coffee houses in the cold and rain thinking they are Europeans in Paris. give me a pint of good beer and a log fire anyday.
michael
userderek pringle
Posted: 22 March 2016 9:18 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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hi all,
Can anyone think that the UK will ever have a real say in the EU whilst we are not what I would call FULL members now. One would assume that all the major decisions and discussions will be determined by countries tied in to both the Euro and Schengen. Just because we are around the table does not mean we are a major influence.
Maybe this vote should have been based on completely IN or Completely OUT, half in makes me think even the the 'remainers' do not fully believe in the EU.
The latest fiasco with the PM and Chancellor instinctively puts me against anything they recommend.
cheers
derek
userPJay
Posted: 22 March 2016 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Maybe this bombing in Brussels to-day, will make them think again about putting back borders!
This could be the reality check , that makes them think?? Nothing like something close to home !

We have had a leaflet to-day advising why we should stay in, though the post. Guess we will get one from the "out" brigade next. Then what about the "sitting on the fence" brigade?
PJay
userKnaus
Posted: 29 March 2016 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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I never voted to go in. I am not a European. We survived perfectly well for many years without the EU making our laws etc. I am voting out.
userpelmetman
Posted: 30 March 2016 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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What I find curious is that every online poll such as this show a thumping lead of 70%+ for the leave camp

Yet we keep being told by the polling companies that its neck and neck? .......

But there again they did predict a hung Parliament to .......


uservino
Posted: 30 March 2016 5:13 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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I believe we have to leave the EU as we have lost all power and reputation and the package Cameron has brought home will be scuppered by the Legals (after the Event) and then we WILL be stuffed

we are the fifth wealthiest nation in the World -we are considered to be fair and just and reasonably 'Legal' - Europe is in turmoil - one policy does not fit all - the answer is not in' politics' but in social and economic reforms

Immigration, Isis and the Far Right will shape the near future policies and with little or no respect in Brussels the UK will have to comply with the rest of Europe and their 'political' concerns

I sincerely believe that we need to come out now BUT in the future we will become again an intricate and very essential partner in the New Europe as with the ascendancy of Russia, China, Brazil and of course USA we cannot stand alone




usermalc d
Posted: 31 March 2016 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Knaus - 2016-03-29 9:25 PM

We survived perfectly well for many years without the EU making our laws etc. .




That's if you don't count the two appalling wars in Europe in the first half of the last century.

userpkc
Posted: 3 April 2016 9:22 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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What an interesting debate,
I've been musing it over, and will if I may put in my pennies worth.
I think that Brian has put his finger on the really important point in this debate.
Why have the referendum, why?
Driven by Cameron's concerns about the voting tactics of a small number of his ultra right wing Members an idea to placate any revolt was born.
The increasing popularity of the UKIP party with its real threat to the country's marginal seats fed this concern until it reached a level never dreamed of, and has turned into a nightmare that threatens to split the Nation.
Putting aside the matter of how much we pay or don't pay to be a member, choose your own statistics, and the usual hand wringing about Sovereignty, what ever that is perceived to be.
Half the people down the pub seem to think it is something to do with getting rid of the Queen.
Perhaps I should change my pub.
I think there are much more important points to be considered.
The possible effect of exit on this country has been so mauled by spin and counter spin it is virtually impossible for the average guy to see the real truth of the case, even if it possible at all to reach an exact determination given the vast number of possible scenarios.
What I consider to be just as important in this debate, and which seemed to have been ignored is what will be the effects on the remaining members of the community?
I quite like that word community, to me it means a coming together of a number of separate entities for their common good, even if that means that some gain and some lose a little, but that is just me.
A couple of thoughts that occurred to me about the historical advantage of the ever closer cooperation of independent states.
If the United States had remained a number of separate states would they have been able or wished to come to our aid in the Second World War?
Would a collection of separate Russian states have been able to resist the German offensive?
If the answer is no, what then? Hypothetical? Possibly, but it does no harm to muse I think.

I think there are questions about what happens after a out result that nobody seems to have asked let alone answered.
When Bojo and Co with their water cannons have replaced the Chuckle Brothers in Downing Street, what will happen on the borders of Scotland when they vote for separation, which they inevitably would, will we all be nipping over the border with our passports to do our shopping?
Will the cattle rustling merry-go-round at the border of Eire and Northern Ireland resume to take advantage of the different subsidies? Of course the French will continue to finance the Jungle immigrant camps and the passport checks surely? So no pressure there then.
The thorny question of immigration swept away at a stroke?
Possibly not. Even if we walk away from the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, can we likewise walk away from our obligations to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which interprets the European Convention on Human Rights and is completely separate?
I haven't the faintest idea. More frightening I don't think the clods who will have to deal with these issues have either.
Truly. Those who the clods would destroy they first make mad.

From its beginnings in the Iron and Steel Community (there's that word again) the main idea alluded to by Malc D was to prevent the possibility of conflict between members, and less overtly possibly to reduce the possibility of a resurgence of rampant German nationalism, while it is impossible to prove a negative it appears to have succeeded in that respect.

The community after a UK exit would be greatly weakened, possibly fatally, other members may possibly follow in our footsteps like falling dominos until final collapse, who would then be the driving power in Europe to deal with a more aggressive Russian stance?
One should be careful what one wishes for, and even more careful what one votes for.
Please don't think I am being anti German here, I am a great admirer, no country has done more to eradicate the sins of their past then the German people, we could take lessons.
Having spent a large part of my time on the continent over the years, the feeling I get from our friends over the channel is a real concern over the possible exit of the U.K.
A lot of them seem to think we are quite mad, I tend to agree.
Cheers.

userpelmetman
Posted: 3 April 2016 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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pkc - 2016-04-03 9:22 AM

What an interesting debate,
I've been musing it over, and will if I may put in my pennies worth.
I think that Brian has put his finger on the really important point in this debate.
Why have the referendum, why?
Driven by Cameron's concerns about the voting tactics of a small number of his ultra right wing Members an idea to placate any revolt was born.
The increasing popularity of the UKIP party with its real threat to the country's marginal seats fed this concern until it reached a level never dreamed of, and has turned into a nightmare that threatens to split the Nation.
Putting aside the matter of how much we pay or don't pay to be a member, choose your own statistics, and the usual hand wringing about Sovereignty, what ever that is perceived to be.
Half the people down the pub seem to think it is something to do with getting rid of the Queen.
Perhaps I should change my pub.
I think there are much more important points to be considered.
The possible effect of exit on this country has been so mauled by spin and counter spin it is virtually impossible for the average guy to see the real truth of the case, even if it possible at all to reach an exact determination given the vast number of possible scenarios.
What I consider to be just as important in this debate, and which seemed to have been ignored is what will be the effects on the remaining members of the community?
I quite like that word community, to me it means a coming together of a number of separate entities for their common good, even if that means that some gain and some lose a little, but that is just me.
A couple of thoughts that occurred to me about the historical advantage of the ever closer cooperation of independent states.
If the United States had remained a number of separate states would they have been able or wished to come to our aid in the Second World War?
Would a collection of separate Russian states have been able to resist the German offensive?
If the answer is no, what then? Hypothetical? Possibly, but it does no harm to muse I think.

I think there are questions about what happens after a out result that nobody seems to have asked let alone answered.
When Bojo and Co with their water cannons have replaced the Chuckle Brothers in Downing Street, what will happen on the borders of Scotland when they vote for separation, which they inevitably would, will we all be nipping over the border with our passports to do our shopping?
Will the cattle rustling merry-go-round at the border of Eire and Northern Ireland resume to take advantage of the different subsidies? Of course the French will continue to finance the Jungle immigrant camps and the passport checks surely? So no pressure there then.
The thorny question of immigration swept away at a stroke?
Possibly not. Even if we walk away from the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, can we likewise walk away from our obligations to the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg, which interprets the European Convention on Human Rights and is completely separate?
I haven't the faintest idea. More frightening I don't think the clods who will have to deal with these issues have either.
Truly. Those who the clods would destroy they first make mad.

From its beginnings in the Iron and Steel Community (there's that word again) the main idea alluded to by Malc D was to prevent the possibility of conflict between members, and less overtly possibly to reduce the possibility of a resurgence of rampant German nationalism, while it is impossible to prove a negative it appears to have succeeded in that respect.

The community after a UK exit would be greatly weakened, possibly fatally, other members may possibly follow in our footsteps like falling dominos until final collapse, who would then be the driving power in Europe to deal with a more aggressive Russian stance?
One should be careful what one wishes for, and even more careful what one votes for.
Please don't think I am being anti German here, I am a great admirer, no country has done more to eradicate the sins of their past then the German people, we could take lessons.
Having spent a large part of my time on the continent over the years, the feeling I get from our friends over the channel is a real concern over the possible exit of the U.K.
A lot of them seem to think we are quite mad, I tend to agree.
Cheers.



Very nice cuddly and inclusive word "Community" ...........

But where is the community in constantly being outvoted by a clique of self serving country's?........I prefer the word "Reality" ........and the reality of the EU empire building is a Titanic exercise in incompetence .......which I hope to help drive into the iceberg .......

As for fears of another world war.......that's already started, and its not between countries but ideologies, and as usual EU incompetence, is aiding rather than preventing attacks by those who would see our way of life and cultures destroyed ............

userpkc
Posted: 3 April 2016 10:56 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Self serving. Well I think all states are guilty of that charge Dave,
Pounds gone down again, are you up to something else that your not telling us about?
userpelmetman
Posted: 3 April 2016 1:36 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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pkc - 2016-04-03 10:56 AM

Self serving. Well I think all states are guilty of that charge Dave,
Pounds gone down again, are you up to something else that your not telling us about?


Very true ........But its more than apparent Billy No Mates Britain has very few allies ......

Just look at the deal Cameron won from the EU......a whole lot of nothing dressed up as something ......

We'll never be a productive member of the EU super state, and they only tolerate us for the 55 million a day we pour into the EU gravy train .......

As for the pound.....I can recall it being at almost parity, and that was without a referendum on the horizon, I suspect once the vote is done and we have hopefully voted to leave, then I wouldn't be surprised if the pound soared back to 1.40+€ .........
userKnaus
Posted: 7 April 2016 2:38 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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What about the 9million the government have spent of our money to promote staying in the EU. It is disgusting when we are suffering cuts to all our services. Then there is the enlargement of the EU by more countries that haven' t the means to support themselves joining. Look what happened to the USSR it collapsed. We aren't allowed to trade with whom we like unless we get the consent of all the members.We lived well before we joined.The EU was only for trade to begin with then the so called powers that be began to decide our laws and how wee should live I nedvervoted to join so won't be voting to stay in. The sooner we leave the better.
userPJay
Posted: 7 April 2016 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Interesting that 73% of the votes on this forum are for OUT!

Even though it may well affect us Motor Homers . Why don't the Government have a poll on line?, instead of spending billions of our money on sending every one a leaflet? most of which will go straight in the bin!
I may read it, but will not change my mind
PJay
PS can we have our OLD passports back as well??
usermalc d
Posted: 7 April 2016 10:10 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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PJay - 2016-04-07 6:55 PM

Interesting that 73% of the votes on this forum are for OUT!

/QUOTE]


Interesting, but not surprising.

The polls indicate that " older folk " are more likely to vote out .

I reckon that is because a lot of them long for " the old days " - and believe they will come back if we leave the EU.

They won't of course, as most problems we have these days are caused by globalisation, terrorism or just UK government policies.

Still, it's nice to dream.

userpelmetman
Posted: 8 April 2016 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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malc d - 2016-04-07 10:10 PM

PJay - 2016-04-07 6:55 PM

Interesting that 73% of the votes on this forum are for OUT!

/QUOTE]


Interesting, but not surprising.

The polls indicate that " older folk " are more likely to vote out .

I reckon that is because a lot of them long for " the old days " - and believe they will come back if we leave the EU.

They won't of course, as most problems we have these days are caused by globalisation, terrorism or just UK government policies.

Still, it's nice to dream.



Or maybe its because they realise they have been sold a pig in a poke.....
Or that they've seen a one size fits all doesn't work.....
Or perhaps its the fact that they're becoming ethnic minorities in their own country......
Or it could be that they resent foreign cultures are being given priority over their own......
Or they have seen their wages being suppressed by a jobs market flooded by cheap EU labour......
Or that they object to the EU's expansionists policies.......
Or it could be that some of us weren't OLD enough to vote last time .....

OGGY OGGY OGGY.......OUT OUT OUT!!! ........

userpelmetman
Posted: 8 April 2016 1:02 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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If your annoyed at Cameron using the UK taxpayer to fund his propaganda .......

Sign here ........

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/116762



Edited by pelmetman 2016-04-08 1:03 PM
userTracker
Posted: 8 April 2016 3:21 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Thanks dave - I'm number 142,264!

Much more important than Aires for England it seems!
userzombies
Posted: 12 April 2016 12:24 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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I as many others don't know the benefits of either but.......

I don't trust our government to replace any laws tge EU have in place.
I don't trust our government to fund major works that the EU fund.
I have lived abroad (within the EU) and came back as and when I pleased and I wish to do the the same again at some point.
Most people (for me) are voting out due to a border issue, I don't trust the government to create jobs to manage the borders.
I feel I might not be able to do so so freely as I did before, basically I wasnt registered in the other country for some time whilst I found my feet so to speak, I feel I would have to be known next time if out of the EU which would make it more difficult to settle.

A lot of laws set out by the EU are done so for the benefit of its individuals.
Laws setbout by the government will benefit those who set them.
userPoppy
Posted: 12 April 2016 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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terry1956 - 2016-03-13 1:15 PM

Hi. I am a second home owner and have owned a house in Normandy for over 14 years. at the moment I have the house on the market but there is know interest as most people in France don't have any money due to the mad left wing nut job Hollande. His idea of over taxing the rich and imposing even madder green taxes as lead to a total lack of investment in the country and a lot of unemployment as companies failing the mass of employment laws fall back on employment agents for staff, a bit like the rise in zero hours contacts in this country. anyway how will second home ownership work out. It will take two years to pull out of EU. in that time nothing will change for sure. after that I would think that for France two thinks will happen. the first is that the likes of Hollande will impose higher rates of taxes on none French home ownership for the brits ( the French did have a go at this when Brown was PM as he wanted more taxes from 2nd home owners both here in the UK and within the EU.) the second thing that may happen is the rise of the far right mainly due to the uncontrolled immigration and a feeling of helplessness that is coming over Europeans as a whole. again I think it will be a rise of taxes.
at the moment the French housing market is in free fall. high unemployment and high taxes will have that effect. my house is worth about the same now as I paid 14 years back. for me if I had to give the place away to get my country back I would be happy to do so. if we remain in its good bye England, its history, laws the lot. and for what, gay rights, women's rights and watching fools setting outside coffee houses in the cold and rain thinking they are Europeans in Paris. give me a pint of good beer and a log fire anyday.
michael
Having read the survey about what British Muslims think can I say that your views on womens and gay rights are quite close to the more, shall we say, evangelical muslims.Odd that,
userlaimeduck
Posted: 12 April 2016 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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I replicate 2 items. The first an e-mail from a big player in the City to a friend of mine. The second an article by Frederick Forsyth about a month old. Both very thought provoking ....................

Dear fellow "referendees"

The "six-of-one-half-a-dozen-of-the-other" arguments about trade; immigration; security; jobs etc highlight the cluelessness we feel about the day to day practical implications of staying with or leaving our European neighbours. I'd like to step back a bit and think about what it is we're actually wedded to.

You may have seen this already. It speaks to my principal objection to the "remain" argument - namely that it is more effective and sensible to try to reform the EU "from within" rather than leave the building in a huff.

I hark back to our noble Prime Minister's recent dismal results after a strenuous and protracted round of negotiations with EU grandees which yielded, I think we can agree, the square root of naff-all in terms of meaningful structural reform. The blindingly obvious fact is that it is impossible to get 28 people to agree on anything without unacceptable watering-down compromises (dinner time at home is a daily salutary reminder of this universal truth). It is abundantly clear, therefore, that the EU is un-reformable in any fundamental way as it is currently organised and that any significant restructuring is snookered by the "28 in agreement" requirement. All the Turkeys (literally!) won't vote for Christmas! The EU has been deliberately designed to be impregnable to the inconveniences of normal democratic change and to be controlled by unelected officials.

I'd like to be persuaded otherwise but the fear tactics currently being deployed by the remain camp merely strengthens my conviction that, like the Wizard of Oz, the scaremongering response to a possible Brexit from the EU Politburo (including the UK) is an elaborate facade erected to protect over-paid and self-serving bureaucrats who are genuinely afraid of being revealed for what they are; individuals who are interested only in maintaining the status quo because they benefit hugely from the EU project even as it steams unswervingly, like the Titanic, towards the iceberg of fiscal collapse. (that's quite enough mixing of metaphors - ed)


From Frederick Forsyth Express article 11/03/16

A long time ago a very wise old man advised me thus: “If ever you are confronted by a highlycomplex situation and a decision cannot be avoided, never rush to an earlyemotional judgment. Subject the subject to the four-pronged ARID. It stands forAnalyse, Research, Identify and then Decide.” We all now face the decision: should we continue as obedient membersof the EU or should we sever the link? Let me try to apply the old man’sadvice. 

A

Any country other than a shambolic anarchy must have agovernment. That said, most governmental systems end with the five-letter “cracy” derived from the Greek for “rule”. There are about 10. We knowabout autocracy, rule by a single tyrant. There is theocracy, rule by thepriestly caste, such as Iran.  Add stratocracy, rule by the army (Egypt)and plutocracy (by the very rich). We have seen gerontocracy, with the reins ofpower in the hands of the extremely old - the Soviet politburo in its lastdays. And aristocracy, rule by the nobles, long gone.   But two are with us and visible. One isbureaucracy, government by the officials, the constant competitor for powerwith rule by the “demos”: the people.Democracy. It is by far the hardest to establish.  It is the most fragile,the easiest to fake with rigged elections, meaningless ceremonies and elaboratecharades. I estimate about 100 phoney democracies worldwide. But ours isparliamentary democracy so let’s give it a glance.  Of course it isindirect. We cannot expect the electorate to go to the polls for every tinydecision. So we divide the country into 650 constituencies with one MP foreach. The party with the most MPs in Westminster governs for five years. At thepinnacle is the Cabinet and, with encircling junior ministers, forms theGovernment, which I will call the power.  But there is more. The power isheld to account, not five-yearly, not annually or monthly but every day. Doingthis is the official Opposition but also the backbench MPs even of thegovernment party. This “holding toaccount” is vital. Assisting these critics is hopefully a free and unafraidpress. 

I have travelled very widely, seen the good, the bad and the very ugly andhave come firmly to the view that with all its flaws the British parliamentaryform of democracy is the best in the world. Not for those in power but for thepeople who between elections still have a voice. It is against this templatethat we can judge the system of the EU. 

R

Just after the war a group of men, politicians, thinkers,intellectuals and theorists, formed around Frenchman Jean Monnet, becameconvinced that what they had witnessed at close quarters - the utterdestruction of their continent in a vicious war - must never, ever, happenagain. It was not a bad view-point, indeed it was a noble one.  They thenanalysed the problem and came up with two solutions. The first was that thevarious and disparate nations of Europe west of the Iron Curtain must somehowbe unified into one under a single government. They accepted that this mighttake two, even three generations but must be done. This was not an ignoblevision.  It was their second conclusion to which I take exception. Thewhole group was mesmerised by one fact. In 1933 the Germans, seized by rabidnationalism, voted Adolf Hitler into power. Their conclusion: the people, anypeople, were too obtuse, too gullible, too dim ever to be safely entrusted withthe power to elect their government.  People’s democracy was flawed andshould never be permitted to decide government again if war was to be avoided.Real power would have to be confined to a non-elective body of enlightenedminds like theirs. 

In the 70 years since, the theory has never changed. Itremains exactly the same today. The British Cabinet has power and may delegatethat power to a wide range of civil servants: police chiefs, generals,bureaucrats. But it itself remains elective. The people can change it via thepolling booth. Not in the EU. The difference is absolutelyfundamental. They realised, those founders, that there would have to befaçades erected to persuade the gullible that democracy had not been abolishedin the new utopia. There is indeed a European Parliament - but with adifference.  In London it is the Commons that is the law-giver, the UpperHouse is the vetting and endorsing chamber. In Brussels the EU Parliament hasno lower house, it is the endorsing chamber. It ratifies what the real power,the non-elective European Commission, has decided.  The broad masses wouldalso have to be convinced that the purpose of the Monnet utopia was economicand thus about prosperity. This untruth has prevailed to this day and is themain plank of the establishment propaganda in our present British decision-making. In fact the final destination of the EU is entirely political. It is thecomplete political, legal and constitutional unification of the continent ofEurope into a single entity: the State of Europe. This clearly cannot make waragainst itself, thus guaranteeing peace. Albeit without democracy. 

It is amazing how many intelligent people have fallen for this fiction.Thus David Cameron can tell us with a straight face that he repudiates thethree pillars of the EU - the doctrine of even closer union, a single externalborder but no internal ones (Schengen) and a single currency (eurozone) - butstill thinks we will sit at the top table. He believes the EU is about tradeand tariffs. No, that’s what we thought we joined. 

I

Back in the 1960s one British premier (Macmillan) afteranother (Heath) came to the view that with the empire departing into independenceand the USA becoming more protectionist our economic days were numbered. If theworld beyond the oceans was not communist it was Third World, meaningimpoverished.  Both premiers became convinced the future lay east acrossthe Channel. Back then the union was six countries: Germany, France, Italy,plus minnows Holland, Belgium and Luxembourg. Wealthy, especially Germany,booming. Just the trading partners we needed.  So under Heath we joinedthe Common Market. As a trading nation for centuries we were delighted to doso. Then the lies began. It would never go further, we were told. The Sixbecame the Nine but all in western Europe.   Heath lied to us. He said there would neverbe any question of “transfer ofsignificant sovereignty”. He had read the whole Treaty of Rome. No one elsehad. He knew this was just the tip of the iceberg. 

Then in 1992 came the Maastricht Treaty. We were told it was just tidyingup loose ends. More lies. It was transformational. It created the EuropeanUnion. Slowly, decree by decree, rule by rule, law by law, our ancient right togovern ourselves the way we wanted to be governed and by whom was transferredfrom London to Brussels. Today 60% of all laws are framed in Brussels, notLondon.  The lies multiplied. The entire establishment, much espoused ofpower without accountability, has become hugely enamoured of the newgovernmental system. Less and less need to consult those wretched people, thevoters.  It is no coincidence that the five professions that worship power- politicians, bureaucrats, diplomats, quangocrats and lawyers, plus the twothat lust for money, bankers/ financiers and tycoons - today constitute almostthe whole of the stay-in campaign. Almost to a man.  And the liesproliferate. “There is no intention to proceedto a superstate.” Really? Read the Treaty of Rome. That is the whole pointof the EU. What is not said is that in a unified continent there can be noplace for the independent, autonomous, self-governing sovereignnation/state.  The two are a contradiction in terms. Only here in the UKis that denied. In Brussels it is accepted as wholly obvious. “The end of nation” is regarded as awork in progress. Endgame is foreseen as a decade, maybe two. 

D

The referendum decision of June 23 will be the last ever,the decision permanent. So this is your choice. This is about the country inwhich we will spend the rest of our lives, the land we will pass on to ourchildren and grandchildren.  What kind of a country, what kind of agovernmental system? People’s democracy or officialdom’s empire? Our right tohold power to account or just two duties: to pay and obey? For me it is simpleand takes just five words. I want my country back.

userpelmetman
Posted: 12 April 2016 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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laimeduck - 2016-04-12 10:38 AM

I want my country back.



Amen to that .........

userTracker
Posted: 12 April 2016 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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pelmetman - 2016-04-12 11:54 AM

laimeduck - 2016-04-12 10:38 AM

I want my country back.



Amen to that .........



Absolutely right!

Why let ourselves be screwed by the EUwhen we have plenty of home grown so called politicians who are more than capable of buggering up the country on our behalf - but at least we can chuck 'em out afer five years and let another bunch of misfits have a go!



Edited by Tracker 2016-04-12 2:20 PM
userRogerC
Posted: 12 April 2016 9:53 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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I'm 210602 on the petition........biased mailshots issued by HMG is not on....a fair and balanced mailshot yes I would agree but not biased towards the 'in' bigade'
userpelmetman
Posted: 13 April 2016 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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I see the IMF has signed up for "Project Fear" ........I wonder why Osbourne and Cameron are not complaining about this forecast for the UK unlike previous ones?...........probably because it suits their "Agenda" .......even so 1.9% growth is much better than the Eurozones 1.5% .......

I guess the next prophet doom will be Obama, who will lecture us on how we should be good little poodles .....

No doubt before the 23rd we'll be told that the sky will fall in, and UKIP supporters will eat your babies ....



Edited by pelmetman 2016-04-13 8:02 AM
usermalc d
Posted: 13 April 2016 3:39 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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RogerC - 2016-04-12 9:53 PM

.....................biased mailshots issued by HMG is not on....




.. especially when it's being paid for by people who want to leave (as well as those who want to stay )




Edited by malc d 2016-04-13 3:40 PM
userWallynnette
Posted: 13 April 2016 6:20 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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I actually posted my 'stay in' booklet back from whence it came together with a letter saying how arrogant Dave is. He seems to think that ALL the government is for remaining, there's mp's across the board on all sides that want out. Plus it was not a fair 50/50 information, just one page on leaving. The money wasted could have gone anywhere and have been more use.
userpelmetman
Posted: 20 April 2016 7:02 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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I'm beginning to wonder who the pollsters are actually canvasing, and just what their agenda is ......

As yesterdays Telegraph stated the remain camp were pulling ahead......based on a ORB poll of just 198 people??......yet further down the same online article there is a online poll, of which 76% want to leave based on 22507 people .........

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/18/remain-pulls-ahead-of-leave-in-eu-referendum-poll-as-david-camer/

Indeed every online poll I've seen seems to indicate a 70% plus wanting to leave, just as this one does ......

Perhaps its just another example of the vested interests trying to influence the vote ......

userW3526602
Posted: 24 April 2016 7:11 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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nowtelse2do - 2016-02-29 8:12 PM

Hi,

<<< In 2014 our exports to the EU was 46.6%. Imports from the EU were 53.2%. Our exports are still falling .>>>

If we export £1 of goods, that's £0.46.

If we import £2 of goods. that's £1.06.

Percentages are meaningless without knowing the percentage of what.

I cannot get my brain round why it is to MY/OUR advantage to export, say, Welsh lamb, and import lamb from elsewhere (I don't know if we still do import lamb). I presume the farmer gets a better price, the importers and exporters, and haulage companies take a cut .... but where are they based (and pay their taxes). In the meantime, we have all those expenses added to whatever we are eating. Locally produced food in France is cheap.

I have stopped eating my daily apple ... taste and consistency of wood. I did not question where they came from.

When a foreign President gives dire warnings of what will happen if we leave, I wonder if their advice is for our benefit, or for their own. When their advice comes in the form of a threat, it tends to make me lean the other way.

I would rather live in a hovel I own, than a mansion I rent. I want control of my own destiny.

602
usermalc d
Posted: 24 April 2016 10:36 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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W3526602 - 2016-04-24 7:11 AM


I would rather live in a hovel I own, than a mansion I rent. I want control of my own destiny.

602




I'm always surprised to hear of people who can control their own destinies.

All I've managed to do so far is control my own lifestyle.

Everything else has been in the lap of the gods.

userW3526602
Posted: 24 April 2016 6:24 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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<<< I'm always surprised to hear of people who can control their own destinies. >>>

Hi Malc

My Great Great Grandfather knew exactly when he was going to die ....

The judge told him.

But seriously, life would have been very different if, when I was 16, I know what I know now. For a start, I would not have voted to join the EC.

602
userpelmetman
Posted: 25 April 2016 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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This is why the referendum is our last chance to escape .......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3556895/Labour-s-leaflet-woo-Poles-vote-English-different-message-Party-accused-resorting-divisive-tactics-win-support-local-elections.html

Because next time we'll be out numbered ...........

userpelmetman
Posted: 2 May 2016 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Well I knew it was only a matter of time ........Now Brexit will be bad for the rest of the world

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3568772/Leaving-EU-endanger-Earth-says-Miliband-Former-Labour-leader-issues-extraordinary-warning-global-habitat-suffer-Britain-leaves.html

These Remain folk really are a desperate lot ........

userKeith T
Posted: 11 May 2016 10:28 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Almost 220k signatures now - didn't see, or know, the result of the Parliamentary discussion, but its never going to achieve much on the simple basis that the money has been spent.!

As far as the 'poll results' are concerned, it might just be that the large percentage of folk who will do on-line polls are of the generation who has seen how the EU has grown, and is run by failed politicians.

Interestingly, we were on a campsite in France a week or two ago, and I was chatting to a Dutchman, and his opinion was we should come out, not least because he believed that Holland would also need a similar referendum and would vote to follow us!!
It seems that a lot of 'European' citizens resident in most of the countries within Europe, would like to return to their own parliaments or whatever they have, and not be dictated to by a non elected, highly paid, group of politicians and civil servants..
userKnaus
Posted: 21 May 2016 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Hi did anyone watch Jeremy Paxman's programme on TV this week? It just showed you how much I is spent on the total hierocracy of the EU. The buildings alone must cost a fortune to upkeep and as for all those members that have to travel to Strasbourg just to vote is unbelievable. Let's get out while we can!
usergoldi
Posted: 26 May 2016 12:16 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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evening all,

The transport minister Patrick Mc Loughlan has proposed the foreign trucks pay ten pounds a day for using British roads. This has ben refused by Brussels unles the same is charged to british trucks even though those foreign trucks might have paid £200 to travel through France insisting that British truckers are charged the same. In my view this will incentivise any British government to accelerate the implementation of road tolling.
Then there is the matter of solar panels. Due to the allegations of Chinese dumping of solar panels in Europe, Brussels applied a 50% tariff on solar panels to protect the German manufacturers , so if you have solar panels on the roof of your motorhome you may have paid too much.

Then there is the matter of open borders. It stands reason that there is bound to be an increase in road congestion . All these three items impact on motorhomers Quality of life.

Its hard to believe that 100 years ago we had the worlds biggest navy and owned two thirds of the world.. Now we have David Cameron pleading with Jean Claude Juncker to reduce the amount of VAT to zero from 5% which created 14 million of tax only which is less than a third of the boxing day flood damage. And yet Jean Claude Juncker was the president of the tax haven of Luxembourg, a country smaller than Lancashire. How low has our national pride become

After the events in Cologne on new years eve why would any woman vote to remain or why would any man suggest to his wife or daughter to vote remain for the sake of a tick in a box.

If these government economists were so clever then why did they not predict the collapse of the oil price only 8 months after the Scottish election, Cameron and co could beat the Breakaways to death with this which would have put Scotland 15 billion in dept.. Clearly these econconmists have no more idea than the man in the moon.

One man one vote has the same power whether you are rich or poor. Everyday people should not lose that power to the Elites and manipulators who are gradually eroding our Democracy
userW3526602
Posted: 26 May 2016 6:38 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Hi,

I'm being told that if we leave the EU, our economy will collapse. Do they mean our Fat Cat's economy? Whatever, how did we let our master's get us into the position where we are beholden to other nations? Isn't it about time that we took control of our future back?

But then again, I'm being told that if the UK leaves the EU, the GLOBAL economy will collapse. Perhaps we have a bigger stick than we thought ... and our PM forgot to wave it.

The latest news is that leaving the EU will extend our period of austerity by another two years. What austerity? Does driving a motorhome indicate an austere lifestyle? Am I depriving my kids of a decent lifestyle because I don't have two motorhomes?

Why do politicians rant on about stopping the "boom and bust" economy ... but only during a "bust".

602
userTracker
Posted: 26 May 2016 7:00 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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W3526602 - 2016-05-26 6:38 AM
The latest news is that leaving the EU will extend our period of austerity by another two years. What austerity? Does driving a motorhome indicate an austere lifestyle? Am I depriving my kids of a decent lifestyle because I don't have two motorhomes?
602


There is no doubt that 'we' motorhomers by the very nature that we need to be relatively well off to own and run one are in a privilidged position financially and there is of course nothing wrong with that.

However we do need to appreciate that much of our population does not enjoy this status - as indeed many of us did not all those years ago.

For a lot of people the lack of job and pension security and the risks of losing your home if you lose your job and can't get a comparable one are very real and the pressure on incomes which seem not to be rising inline with real world prices adds another level of stress to many younger families.

The problem is not is what is best for me, but what is best for the UK population as a whole, and it is hard to see why anyone aho has never lived without the EU would want to risk leaving it for an unknown?

userpelmetman
Posted: 26 May 2016 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Tracker - 2016-05-26 7:00 AM


The problem is not is what is best for me, but what is best for the UK population as a whole, and it is hard to see why anyone aho has never lived without the EU would want to risk leaving it for an unknown?



Those who think they're preserving the Status Quo if we remain are seriously deluded .........If we remain UK culture will disappear under a tide of migrants, helped by our PC elite, the NHS will collapse, our education system will become third rate..........

Staying in the EU is a race to the bottom ......

Vote Leave to Remain prosperous ..........





userKeith T
Posted: 26 May 2016 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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More scaremongering this morning, I see......What I don't get is why at the outset Cameron was quite willing to back the leave route if he didn't get the concessions he wanted...whilst he didn't get them anyway, he now has gone totally opposite, but surely he must have already foreseen what might/could/ happen on the basis that he didn't achieve them and would he then have still played down the benefits of leaving?

One can only hope the continual scaremongering and plucking figures out of nowhere to support his current arguments will actually be a positive for making people vote OUT. He didn't get the necessary concessions anyway, in most peoples view, that is, and I think that's another reason why we need to get out of being run by a group of unelected highly paid, unaccountable to anyone, officials, mainly failed politicians, including former prime ministers!!!
userMuswell
Posted: 26 May 2016 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Keith T - 2016-05-26 9:16 AM

One can only hope the continual scaremongering and plucking figures out of nowhere to support his current arguments will actually be a positive for making people vote OUT.


One can only hope that Farage knows more about economics than the Bank of England, IMF and IFS.
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 May 2016 10:04 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Muswell - 2016-05-26 9:49 AM

Keith T - 2016-05-26 9:16 AM

One can only hope the continual scaremongering and plucking figures out of nowhere to support his current arguments will actually be a positive for making people vote OUT.


One can only hope that Farage knows more about economics than the Bank of England, IMF and IFS.


No doubt he's got just as much chance of guessing what will happen......given those august bodies penchant for getting it wrong .......

Remember what they said would happen when were forced out of the ERM? .....



userPoppy
Posted: 28 May 2016 6:32 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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See no one tells you what the hidden agendas are.A. lot of this hinges on how we feel a out Russia.Nigel Farrage feels we should be a lot friendlier as we share more values with Russia than say some middle eastern countries.America wants a strong fence of pro America countries around Russia and has nuclear missiles bases in at least one of them Romania.A lot of things and interests are going on that we are completely unaware of.
userW3526602
Posted: 29 May 2016 7:15 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Hi,

Assume that anyone giving advice will be doing it for selfish reasons.

602
userKnaus
Posted: 31 May 2016 3:07 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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It would be great to see a list of all the laws that Brussels have imposed on us since we joined the EU.
userpelmetman
Posted: 1 June 2016 7:00 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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Just watched the "Stronger in Europe" referendum broadcast...........curiously there was no mention of migration..........

I wonder why that would be? ........

userKeithR
Posted: 6 June 2016 4:20 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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I would imagine that mr Cameron, now he is soon retiring, will be looking forward to a well paid, powerful position, in the European parliament? could that be why he is manically pro EEC? if we came out, come the general election he'd have to find a job!
USSR broke up, Yugoslavia broke up, Scotland and wales want independence, so how does that tie in with bigger is better ?
i don't think the EEC would NOT allow us back in if we came out and it didn't work. theyre desperate for power, its even caused a war in Europe, when Ukraine wanted in and Russia thought no. AND turkey is not really Europe, is it (only a liitle bit).
i like visiting countries cos theyre different. i want them to stay that way (at least til ive been there!!!!).
i heard mr Cameron say that we would lose the protection of the labour laws (etc) if we left. does that mean his government cant be trusted? will they repeal our labour laws??? his plan is working, there are a lot of people out there who are unsure, so will vote stay.
userpelmetman
Posted: 6 June 2016 4:43 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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KeithR - 2016-06-06 4:20 PM

i heard mr Cameron say that we would lose the protection of the labour laws (etc) if we left. does that mean his government cant be trusted? will they repeal our labour laws??? his plan is working, there are a lot of people out there who are unsure, so will vote stay.


Yeah, I thought that was a pretty damning indictment of our political parties too ..........

Its like them saying "stay in the EU because we can't be trusted"........

But unlike the EU............ we can vote them out .......



usermalc d
Posted: 6 June 2016 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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pelmetman - 2016-06-06 4:43 PM


Yeah, I thought that was a pretty damning indictment of our political parties too ..........

Its like them saying "stay in the EU because we can't be trusted"........

But unlike the EU............ we can vote them out .......




Well 60 percent of the electorate tried to vote the Tories out last year, but they are still there, with a bigger majority of seats - so voting them out is not that easy.

Quite a bit like the EU really.



Edited by malc d 2016-06-06 8:20 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 6 June 2016 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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malc d - 2016-06-06 8:19 PM

pelmetman - 2016-06-06 4:43 PM


Yeah, I thought that was a pretty damning indictment of our political parties too ..........

Its like them saying "stay in the EU because we can't be trusted"........

But unlike the EU............ we can vote them out .......




Well 60 percent of the electorate tried to vote the Tories out last year, but they are still there, with a bigger majority of seats - so voting them out is not that easy.

Quite a bit like the EU really.



If this referendums done anything, its made people get involved, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a record turnout on the 23rd ..........

userW3526602
Posted: 6 June 2016 9:27 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Hi,

The question is simply IN or OUT. But is there something in the small print, like .... X% of those entitled to vote must vote, else it's a nil contest?.

I'm still expecting some concessions to be offered by the "elite" states.

I'm still in favour of "No trade barriers", and "Free Movement", but no rights to stay or claim. ... sort of what we voted for in the first place.

I wonder how many people who voted against having an Identity Card, will now vote to remain ... and pay for a passport. I think Google said a French identity card cost €20.

602
userW3526602
Posted: 7 June 2016 7:32 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Hi,

Our Glorious Leader went to Brussels to negotiate a better deal for the UK ... which might suggest that the present deal was not very good.

He promised us a referendum after his triumphant return.

His return was not particularly triumphant, but he now tells us that the original deal was the best thing since canned beer, and seems to suggest that a referendum was not a good idea.

Everybody seems to be concentrating on the "Free Trade" element .... which is not the bit that most of us want changed.

I suggest that the Remain Camp would be happy if atlases were redrawn ... with Great Britain changed to Little Europe. Maybe we should sell shares to France and Germany. Scotland and France were always friends, The Welsh were not friends with anybody, as far as I can make out. And the Irish seem to related to most Americans. England and Spain were always friends, but I have heard that the Dutch are buying up large areas of Spain, in preparation for the sea reclaiming Holland.

602
usermarcismum
Posted: 20 June 2016 8:38 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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This thread seems to have died a death and yet so much has happened since the last posti on here.

Sadly the death of Jo Cox is a big landmark. Both sides using her death to their own advantage.
Perosnally I think the whole referendum should have been postponed for six months following Ms Cox's sad demise due to the undue influence it would have on peoples decisons and voting preference.

What do people think? Were any of you out voters and have now decided to vote stay or vice versa? Did you still have to make up your mind and have the events of last Thursday when Ms Cox was attacked influenced your decision? Do you feel you have enough facts to make a good rounded judgement?

Anyone like to comment?
userpelmetman
Posted: 20 June 2016 8:48 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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marcismum - 2016-06-20 8:38 PM

This thread seems to have died a death and yet so much has happened since the last posti on here.

Sadly the death of Jo Cox is a big landmark. Both sides using her death to their own advantage.
Perosnally I think the whole referendum should have been postponed for six months following Ms Cox's sad demise due to the undue influence it would have on peoples decisons and voting preference.

What do people think? Were any of you out voters and have now decided to vote stay or vice versa? Did you still have to make up your mind and have the events of last Thursday when Ms Cox was attacked influenced your decision? Do you feel you have enough facts to make a good rounded judgement?

Anyone like to comment?


The actions of a lunatic shouldn't be allowed to pervert the result, but its clear the Remain camp are doing their not so subtle best to tar all leaver's with the same brush .........



usertonyg3nwl
Posted: 25 June 2016 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Yesterday, it was decided. Goodbye to EU.

TONYG3NWL
userpelmetman
Posted: 25 June 2016 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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tonyg3nwl - 2016-06-25 3:29 PM

Yesterday, it was decided. Goodbye to EU.

TONYG3NWL


Tango Oscar November Yankee Golf Three November Whiskey Lima......

I agree

Out ......

userPJay
Posted: 26 June 2016 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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pelmetman - 2016-06-25 4:11 PM

tonyg3nwl - 2016-06-25 3:29 PM

Yesterday, it was decided. Goodbye to EU.

TONYG3NWL


Tango Oscar November Yankee Golf Three November Whiskey Lima......

I agree

Out ......



I see you remember your phonetic alphabet still Dave.
When we did our radio courses , my OH could never remember W !!! But then it's not his favorite tipple.

PJay
usertonyg3nwl
Posted: 22 July 2016 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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One month on and they are still dragging their feet. Our new leader says that she wont press the OUT button this year, and it will then take a minimum of 2 years to sort out the tangled mess.

personally, I beleive that the politicians will find that they cant/wont/ make a decision, and the advisors will always find another "ah , but you cant exactly do that , because,".... remember the programme Yes Minister,

there was always a snag..

second referendum, scotland wants in, etc.

question?. Will we be in or out in 5 years time..answers on a postcard please to the lady in charge .

I predict "THEY"will find a fudged compromise .. any bets?

Tonyg3nwl
usermalc d
Posted: 23 July 2016 6:09 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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tonyg3nwl - 2016-07-22 5:07 PM


question?. Will we be in or out in 5 years time..answers on a postcard please to the lady in charge .

I predict "THEY"will find a fudged compromise .. any bets?

Tonyg3nwl



My prediction is that it will all become so complex that in 10 years time no-one will be able to agree whether or not we have left.

The essence of good political negotiation is to give everyone the impression that they have won.

userBohemiVan
Posted: 8 August 2017 2:23 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Resourceful, creative and switched on people tend to twig when something's trying hoodwink them into a controlling situation and quickly give them the middle finger.

userW3526602
Posted: 29 November 2017 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Hi,

The EU want a soft border between Northern and Southern Ireland. Sounds good to me, I can take the camper across to Northern Ireland, the drive South, tour Southern Ireland.

And while passing a ferry port, and seeing as how I'm now in an EU state, what is to stop me catching a ferry to our next nearest EU state?

Sounds like a contrived and long winded, but soft, route between UK and anywhere in the EU mainland.

602
usernowtelse2do
Posted: 4 December 2017 7:31 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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W3526602 - 2017-11-29 5:25 PM

Hi,

The EU want a soft border between Northern and Southern Ireland. Sounds good to me, I can take the camper across to Northern Ireland, the drive South, tour Southern Ireland.

And while passing a ferry port, and seeing as how I'm now in an EU state, what is to stop me catching a ferry to our next nearest EU state?

Sounds like a contrived and long winded, but soft, route between UK and anywhere in the EU mainland.

602


And that's the problem, it works the other way also.

Dave
userW3526602
Posted: 5 December 2017 8:10 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Hi Dave,

I don't think I'm alone in regarding the line between Northern and Southern Ireland as the "Irish Border". Wrong ... it's the EU border with the UK. Southern Ireland is EU.

We don't want a hard border. The EU don't want a hard border ... but THEY, a foreign country, are demanding that we, a sovereign state, present plans for THEM to control THEIR border.

The EU, Scotland, Northern and Southern Ireland, Labour, Lib Dems, et al, are giving Mrs May stick for not being able to "organise a piss up in a brewery", when it's them who don't offer any guidance about what they want to drink.

Don't they realise that in the election after Brexit, THEY might be the parties that have to sort THEIR mess out.

I voted leave because I wanted OUT. As far as I'm concerned, a good deal, or a bad deal, or no deal, are all better than staying in. The worst scenario is where we have to go to Brussels, cap in hand, eyes downcast .... "Please Sir ... can we have some more?"

602
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 6 December 2017 12:35 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 


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W3526602 - 2017-12-05 8:10 PM

Hi Dave,

1 I don't think I'm alone in regarding the line between Northern and Southern Ireland as the "Irish Border". Wrong ... it's the EU border with the UK. Southern Ireland is EU.

2 We don't want a hard border. The EU don't want a hard border ... but THEY, a foreign country, are demanding that we, a sovereign state, present plans for THEM to control THEIR border.

3 The EU, Scotland, Northern and Southern Ireland, Labour, Lib Dems, et al, are giving Mrs May stick for not being able to "organise a piss up in a brewery", when it's them who don't offer any guidance about what they want to drink.

4 Don't they realise that in the election after Brexit, THEY might be the parties that have to sort THEIR mess out.

5 I voted leave because I wanted OUT. As far as I'm concerned, a good deal, or a bad deal, or no deal, are all better than staying in. The worst scenario is where we have to go to Brussels, cap in hand, eyes downcast .... "Please Sir ... can we have some more?"

602

1 It is not the EU border at present, it is a border between a part of the UK and the Republic of Ireland, and there are minimal checks on certain goods crossing only. There are no checks on people. There are tax differences between UK and Ireland, and these are catered for within existing Irish/UK agreements. If/when we leave the EU it will become the UK's only land border with the EU. At that point, as has long been stated, the present arrangements can't be adopted because the legal status of the border will have changed.

2 We (the UK) are pretending we can have a non existant border with the EU. This is the same border as we have with any EU state. The fact that we can just drive across doesn't alter its status. Do you envisage free and unfettered entry to France, Spain, the Netherlands, or wherever, as well as to Ireland? How will that work? What we "want" is immaterial, we have (apparently) voted for what we want, and some of us are belatedly waking up to the reality of what that means, while others are saying "told you so".

2/3/4 Who is it that you are describing as THEM? It seems to be somewhere between the whole of the EU and various single UK political parties. Whose is the mess? Does the same mess exist now, while we remain in the EU? It seems to me the mess only exists if we leave. That seems to me to suggest that it is our decision to leave that has caused the mess, and may well have something to do with the "stick" the government is getting for being incapable of describing what it wants.

5 Then, you are entitled to your opinion. That's fine, but you should then also be prepared to accept all the consequences of having exercised it. At present you seem to be saying you want only the good (in your opinion) consequences, but don't want the (in your opinion) bad consequences: the resulting mess. Can't have it both ways, can you? You get the whole deal, or none of the deal. That's how it works.
userW3526602
Posted: 7 December 2017 10:13 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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<<< At present you seem to be saying you want only the good (in your opinion) consequences, but don't want the (in your opinion) bad consequences: >>>

Hi Brian,

I don't think I said that. I voted to leave, and and anticipated what I would regard as a Hard Brexit.

Article 50 says we must negotiate with the EU. The EU's idea of negotiating is to insult and threaten us, and then say they want more. We ask them to justify nebulous figure that they want, but either they won't, or they can't.

The UK does NOT want a hard border with Southern Ireland. The UK does NOT want a hard border with Mainland Europe.

The EU does NOT want a hard border with Northern Ireland. The EU DOES want a hard border with mainland UK.

The EU DOES have hard borders between member states ... but they usually leave the doors open.

Who is doing the "cherry picking?"

Why do the rest of the EU refer to the UK as "Treasure Island"? If we owe the EU €100, 000,000 (or whatever) today, what will we owe them in 10 years, or 20 years, .......

What would your re-action be if the Government decreed that you must remove your garden fences, so that you and your neighbours could all have access to each other's property. And if you live in a semi, or terrace, you must remove all party walls, so they can share your bathroom. To be consistent in your belief that bigger is better, you should be in favour. Perhaps bigger IS better? I don't care, I don't want it.

602

userW3526602
Posted: 8 December 2017 8:08 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Hi Brian,

Further to my previous reply ...

There was a referendum. Nearly 10% more voted to leave, than remain. The leaders of both the big parties have declared that we ARE going to leave ... which probably isn't what THEY want to do ... but nobody could have forced them.

There are only two sides in this "divorce", the EU and the UK. But each side is supported by the in-laws, aunts, uncles, siblings, etc. The EU family have got their act together, they are all singing to the same (only) hymn sheet ... possibly because Uncle has threatened to cut them out of his will if they don't.

The UK on the other hand is in disarray. Every time the party suing for "divorce" makes a case, everybody else sticks their oar in, to put the kibosh on the negotiations. Can't they see that their best interests will be served by helping the party doing the divorcing to get the best deal. They can claim a share of the settlement, afterwards.

To bring it back into political terms, the UK will leave the EU. One day, maybe at the next election, or maybe one after that, the Fifth Columnists will find themselves in Government ... and have to sort out the mess that they have helped to create.

Only a couple of weeks ago, an American (I don't know if he was a politician or a pundit) said that it was not a good thing to divide a nation ... it can be very difficult to re-unite it.

If the EU had responded more favourably to Cameron's requests, maybe the Goose would still be laying the Golden €ggs?

602

PS. Could the UK sue the EU (in the EU Court) for refusing to comply with the terms of Article 50? ?
usermadam
Posted: 1 January 2018 9:54 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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W3526602 - 2017-12-05 8:10 PM

Hi Dave,

I don't think I'm alone in regarding the line between Northern and Southern Ireland as the "Irish Border". Wrong ... it's the EU border with the UK. Southern Ireland is EU.

We don't want a hard border. The EU don't want a hard border ... but THEY, a foreign country, are demanding that we, a sovereign state, present plans for THEM to control THEIR border.

The EU, Scotland, Northern and Southern Ireland, Labour, Lib Dems, et al, are giving Mrs May stick for not being able to "organise a piss up in a brewery", when it's them who don't offer any guidance about what they want to drink.

Don't they realise that in the election after Brexit, THEY might be the parties that have to sort THEIR mess out.

I voted leave because I wanted OUT. As far as I'm concerned, a good deal, or a bad deal, or no deal, are all better than staying in. The worst scenario is where we have to go to Brussels, cap in hand, eyes downcast .... "Please Sir ... can we have some more?"

602


Wrong there boss
It amazes me the lack of knowledge the English/ British have of the problems in Ireland
England caused the border in Ireland insisting on it to protect a minority rich elite and denied voting rights to anyone who didn't own property until the early 1970s
Its an English border and is their responsibility
Anyway Brexit is going to give us a united Ireland within the next 10 years , Arlene Foster and her cohorts are just too thick to realise that
A soft border simply will not work in practical terms , the smugglers will have a field day again
And correct me if I am wrong but sterling is at its worst for a long time
I don't like the EU either and my late father campaigned tirelessly in 1973 when I was 6 to keep us out , but we are in and the farmers here did very well out of it
Just my 2 cents
uservannie2400
Posted: 5 October 2018 12:06 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Obviously you dislike the English. What would be wrong with a 'hard border ' in Ireland? After all it is/will be two separate countries, If we had a hard border with a non EU country would you object to that?
Personally I would let the EU decide if it wants a 'hard border' and let them sort out the minutiae of it!
Regards
Vannie

Edited by vannie2400 2018-10-05 12:07 AM
userW3526602
Posted: 5 October 2018 7:16 AM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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Hi,

If you look at RoI exports to non-EU countries, and add on their exports to the UK (which will become non-EU), approx 50% of RoI exports will be to non-EU countries after Brexit. The RoI has a POSITIVE balance of trade.

I'm not clever enought to interpret those figures.

England has home rule, Scotland wants home rule. Wales wants home rule, NI (I think) does not want home rule. RoI is ruled by the EU.

I would like to see all five countries with home rule, but as equal TRADING partners. Build a dam between Scotland and NI (20 miles? 30 miles?) with port facilities, and road and rail on top. I suspect there will be a head of water on the Northern side, which could be used to generate electricity. Build New London as an administration centre in Cheshire, keep Old London as the English Cultural Centre. Then raise the draw-bridge, let the rest of the EU fight for dominance amongst themselves ... which will be a pointless excersise, as China will be ruling the roost.

Oh well, I can dream. Seeing as English is almost synominous with Briish, can anybody think of a name for us who live South of Scotland, and East of Wales? ANGLES? I'm sure the other four nations won't have a problem naming themselves..

602
userpaddyh
Posted: 15 January 2019 6:08 PM
Subject: RE: The EU vote
 
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This process is being hijacked by the politicians and establishment. They all have one person in mind, Themselves!!!!
The EU has all along been a corrupt establishment, they have not had there books written off for at least the las 10 years, there is money unaccounted for, they spend on themselves when other countries are told to cut spending, last year they voted in a rise for their pensions after telling us all to take a cut in our wages. They live in a lavish life style while we have people using food banks, all this is being paid for by our taxes, when we could do with the money in our own country. When people argue that we recieve money from the EU don't they realise it's onlyour own money comming back.
The sooner we leave the better, and then sort our lot out, they are a shambles and an embarresment to our nation, we need to slim down the lords and parliment, to many of them.