Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
userBulletguy
Posted: 25 January 2019 5:01 PM
Subject: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Ford Motor Co (F.N) said on Thursday it faces a bill of up to $1 billion (£767 million) if Britain leaves the European Union without a deal, comprising World Trade Organization tariffs and the impact of a weaker pound.

Ford employs 13,000 in UK.

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-ford/no-deal-brexit-would-cost-ford-up-to-1-billion-source-idUSKCN1PI1VD
userTracker
Posted: 25 January 2019 5:39 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Ford have been reducing their UK business for years and have not made cars here for years so it makes perfect sense for them to make the rest of all vehicles closer to their assembly plants so no great surprise there then.

Ford have also entered a collaboration agreement with VW for new car development so why would anyone be surprised that Ford take the easy way out and blame Brexit as a cynical but typical marketing excuse.
userBulletguy
Posted: 25 January 2019 6:39 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Except for the thousands employed building the engines and boxes at Dagenham, Bridgend and Halewood, not to mention their R&D place in Essex which alone employs 3,000. As with Airbus these jobs are now all at risk and believing it's "nothing to do with Brexit" simply won't wash any longer Richard because this is happening as a direct result of it.

It's also worth remembering when big companies like this pull out, a whole multitude of other small businesses are affected.....everything from local sandwich bars employees spent their money in to businesses in the supply-chain.

This is not "project fear"......it's Project Reality now.
userTracker
Posted: 25 January 2019 7:17 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Not unexpectedly you are accepting Ford's version of blame it on Brexit wheras in the real world Ford has been exiting the UK for years and like you is keen to jump on any passing negative bandwagon, but then just like the little boy who cried wolf once too often it is no less than we expect from you.

That you choose to obfuscate the issue by having a go at me about jobs etc is also unsurprising as you try all means to blame Brexit for everyting and if the sun does not rise tomorrow I guess that too will be the fault of HMG whilst the EU is totally blamefree.

No wonder they call you Bullshout - thats all you do - shout bull.
userBulletguy
Posted: 25 January 2019 8:15 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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No i'm seeing the reality of Brexit damage Richard, not ignoring and blame shifting to the EU which is every Brexiters default standard....."it's not us, not our fault, it's them" etc. I see it in here and every other forum. Brexiters have got to stop passing the buck now and own their own sh1t and why you feel that's "having a go at you", i don't know as you've never openly declared which way you voted though your postings suggest you went Brexit. Why so coy? Far from obfuscation it's patently clear to many the huge damaging impact Brexit has brought and it's only going to get a lot lot worse.

It may come as a surprise to you but the major internationals were not the only ones threatening to pull out of UK. Arch pro-Brexiteer Dyson said he would eight years ago if UK didn't join the euro. Well now he has shipped out and it's more than just extraordinary timing he announced build of his electric car just days after SN signed FTA's with the EU. If he was so sure of "Brexit being good for UK".......how come he left to go to a country with fta's which Brexit will chuck down the pan? Seems Brexit and possible loss of fta's was enough for Dyson to clear off.

The EU didn't vote for this....Brexiters did. As Remain voters we knew what we'd got already, but Brexiters had zero plans and just a wackadoodle dream of their parallel universe, money trees and promises of unicorns.

userBarryd999
Posted: 25 January 2019 10:53 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Even the Brexiteer economists such and Patrick Minford seem to think the loss of our car industry and pretty much all our manufacturing is acceptable collateral damage to achieve Brexit. I think there is no question that this is going to happen in a no deal scenario.
userBulletguy
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:15 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-25 10:53 PM

Even the Brexiteer economists such and Patrick Minford seem to think the loss of our car industry and pretty much all our manufacturing is acceptable collateral damage to achieve Brexit. I think there is no question that this is going to happen in a no deal scenario.

Loss of any industry to 'achieve Brexit' is not acceptable at all and nobody, irrespective of which way they voted or not, should even be thinking it is. Quite why anyone is prepared to inflict such wreckless irreparable damage is beyond me. It's an utterly despicable attitude and selfish to the core.

Unipart CEO, John Neill said, International Trade Secretary Liam Fox has "extremely low credibility" and does not understand the dangers of a "no-deal" Brexit. Mr Neil added he was "very concerned that people who are saying that a no-deal Brexit is a viable option have not taken the time to understand the way that would affect the economy, and how it would hurt people's jobs".

https://news.sky.com/story/liam-fox-has-extremely-low-credibility-says-unipart-boss-11617518
userBarryd999
Posted: 26 January 2019 12:59 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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The fact that there are politicians still advocating "No Deal" is a disgrace really. Actually they are not only advocating it they are positively pressing for it. You have to go back to 2016 and remember how all of them said no deal would never happen, nobody wants or voted for no deal etc. just to realise what a web of deceit they have sown. Negotiations are over as far as May's deal are concerned so it should be removed as an option. The only negotiating that can be done now is further alignment with the EU if May drops some of her red lines anyway. If they were so keen on No deal then they should have fessed up right from the start that this is what they meant by Brexit, not promising the people that we could have all the benefits and still leave. They conned their way through the 2016 vote and they are still doing it now.
userGeeco
Posted: 26 January 2019 4:55 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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As a mater of interest in the last two years GM (Holden), Toyota and Ford have closed their car manufacturing plants in AU. They have relocated manufacturing to cheap labour countries or simply commenced importing "world" design cars to sell here without the influence of a Brexit type event. International companies are experts at deflecting criticism of their actions from the real reason - generally profit. Cheers,
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 9:09 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Geeco - 2019-01-26 4:55 AM

As a mater of interest in the last two years GM (Holden), Toyota and Ford have closed their car manufacturing plants in AU. They have relocated manufacturing to cheap labour countries or simply commenced importing "world" design cars to sell here without the influence of a Brexit type event. International companies are experts at deflecting criticism of their actions from the real reason - generally profit. Cheers,


You're wasting your time Gary if you think Remoaners are capable of accepting reality ........

userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 12:15 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-25 10:53 PM

Even the Brexiteer economists such and Patrick Minford seem to think the loss of our car industry and pretty much all our manufacturing is acceptable collateral damage to achieve Brexit. I think there is no question that this is going to happen in a no deal scenario.

Loss of any industry to 'achieve Brexit' is not acceptable at all and nobody, irrespective of which way they voted or not, should even be thinking it is. Quite why anyone is prepared to inflict such wreckless irreparable damage is beyond me. It's an utterly despicable attitude and selfish to the core.

Unipart CEO, John Neill said, International Trade Secretary Liam Fox has "extremely low credibility" and does not understand the dangers of a "no-deal" Brexit. Mr Neil added he was "very concerned that people who are saying that a no-deal Brexit is a viable option have not taken the time to understand the way that would affect the economy, and how it would hurt people's jobs".

https://news.sky.com/story/liam-fox-has-extremely-low-credibility-says-unipart-boss-11617518


So why did Ford & Toyota close their factories in Australia? ...........

userderek pringle
Posted: 26 January 2019 9:21 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 
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Hi,
It seems Companies are starting to use the present turmoil we are in politically to 'bury the bad news' under the flag of 'no deal'. Haven't heard any Large employers coming out in favour of leave,let alone leave with 'no deal'
cheers
derek
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 9:58 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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derek pringle - 2019-01-26 9:21 AM

Hi,
It seems Companies are starting to use the present turmoil we are in politically to 'bury the bad news' under the flag of 'no deal'. Haven't heard any Large employers coming out in favour of leave,let alone leave with 'no deal'
cheers
derek


JCB......Weatherspoons.......Dixons ........Dysons........Tate & Lyle.......Don't seem bothered by a no deal ........

userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-26 9:10 AM

So why did Ford & Toyota close their factories in Australia? ...........



Gosh Dave that's an easy one - 'cos they can make 'em cheaper elsewhere - simples.

Like Ford, Toyota now make vehicles in Turkey and I suspect that the incentives given are all part of the Turkish plan to get into the EU one way or another?

Jus like Alice in EU Land, nothing is ever quite what it seems to the easily led!

Edited by Tracker 2019-01-26 11:15 AM
userBulletguy
Posted: 26 January 2019 4:16 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Geeco - 2019-01-26 4:55 AM

As a mater of interest in the last two years GM (Holden), Toyota and Ford have closed their car manufacturing plants in AU. They have relocated manufacturing to cheap labour countries or simply commenced importing "world" design cars to sell here without the influence of a Brexit type event. International companies are experts at deflecting criticism of their actions from the real reason - generally profit. Cheers,

Gary...GM doesn't own Ford and both GM and Ford (FMC) are separate entities; https://www.consumerreports.org/cars-who-owns-which-car-brands/

Regards Ford (FMC), their Cologne production plant in Germany employs over 28,000 and the largest in Europe. Ford-Werke GmbH is a subsidiary of Ford (Europe) and FMC and German labour is not best known for it's 'cheap' labour, but better known for it's efficiency and engineering expertise.

Certainly large production companies (not just automotive), can and have in the past opened up production manufacturing facilities where labour is cheap, just as British businessman James Dyson did in Malaysia though that was years back when he'd warned he would pull out of UK if it didn't join the euro (SM).

However, the current relocations of large businesses are not with 'cheap labour' uppermost in mind as all are relocating to EU countries where they will retain FTA's within their largest market, Europe, and that's come about as a direct result of Brexit. Prior to that they were perfectly content with manufacturing here in UK. Breiteers are naturally in a state of denial over this and persist with blame shifting with none able to explain why, if Brexit Britain has such a promising future, not one European based company has relocated to UK as a direct result of Brexit. I've never been able to get an answer to that question from any Brexiteer. All the "traffic" is moving one way.....and that's out of UK.

Regarding Dyson, he's building an all electric car and announced plans to build it in Singapore......just days after Singapore had signed FTA's with the EU. That gives him the access he wants which Brexit Britain wants to chuck down the pan. Dyson has openly said his decision was based on supply chains, access to markets and the availability of expertise, which offset the cost factor. Interestingly you won't see any Brexiteer condemning Dysons actions because pre-referendum he came out as a supporter of Brexit. Obviously he's not such a "Brexity" chap after all eh? But he's not alone.

Also worth bearing in mind that Singapore average salaries are among the highest in the world, after all they have highly qualified engineers at the top of their game so they won't come cheap, plus business land in SN is extremely expensive and tightly regulated.
userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 4:25 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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It's not all about labour costs in isolation, it is also about union power and the UK record for disruption and probably of greater significance worker attitudes and legendary lack of commitment.

I recall a business seminar some 35 years ago where one of the speakers said - 'as a nation we are paying ourselves too much and not working hard enough for it and if it continues will will become less competitive on the world stage'.

How right he was.

I can't speak for Oz, but Gary might?

Edited by Tracker 2019-01-26 4:26 PM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 5:38 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Multi-national companies locate their factories where they think they will generate the best profits. It is a combination of land cost, government inducements, reliable energy supplies, proximity to ports or major transport links (for cars usually rail), political stability, tax structures, local education levels, labour costs, etc. etc. The factory, together with the production machinery, is a huge investment, so needs to be a sound base for a number of years, at least until the investment is amortised, but ideally for years after that point, which is when it becomes really profitable.

When the models in production are due for replacement, and the existing plant due a major re-fit, one avenue will be to look at the economics of building a new plant at a new, more favourable, location.

That will presumably be the process that Ford have followed, and it is quite possible that if they see Brexit as an unquantifiable future hazard to the economics of UK production, they will look, and go, elsewhere. So will other major manufacturers. The UK is an expensive country in which to base, and run, any business. We also have a rather volatile currency. We have to have other compensatory advantages to secure and maintain those plants. If we don't, they will all gradually move away.

Why do people think that even companies based and originating in UK have "offshored" their production facilities, some moving their headquarters elsewhere, others sub-contracting their production to foreign companies, yet others putting themselves up for sale to the highest bidders? This has been going on for years, and over time has hollowed out our manufacturing base. I bought a refurb kit for my old B&D Workmate last Thursday, and when opening the replacement parts packages I noticed the label said made in...…………………...
you guessed, China!

Our problem is that we have not replaced the jobs that those employed in these factories used to do. We spawn new, high tech, companies quite successfully, but they don't employ the same kinds of people. The people still exist, but there aren't the jobs for them or their skills.

Not strictly relevant to Brexit, but no-one seems to have employment for those who have manual, rather than intellectual, skills, at the forefront of their thinking. Call centres and Amazon warehouses on zero hours contracts are no substitute for those people - which spells an awful lot of dissatisfied, unhappy people doing jobs they despise and resent while robots, or far away foreign workers, do the work they used to do. We need a range of new employment opportunities for people who have that skillset. Building more homes could absorb some, but more, skilled, manual jobs that are not suited to mechanisation or robotisation seem to me to be needed.

The agricultural revolution de-populated the land, but fortunately coincided with the beginnings of the industrial revolution, so that the land workers could ('though not easily) move to industrial work. Now we need similar work for similar people as we de-industrialise and robotise, and I can't yet see where that is. Where it isn't, is in those areas that have already lost their industry and are still waiting for the new employment opportunities they hope will arrive. In that sense it is relevant to Brexit, as the main impetus for leave seems to have been in those same areas. The problem then is that leaving the EU won't solve their problem, and when that becomes clear they will be even more unhappy and resentful.
userteflon2
Posted: 26 January 2019 5:49 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 
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Bulletguy - 2019-01-25 8:15 PM


No i'm seeing the reality of Brexit damage Richard, not ignoring and blame shifting to the EU which is every Brexiters default standard....."it's not us, not our fault, it's them" etc. I see it in here and every other forum. Brexiters have got to stop passing the buck now and own their own sh1t and why you feel that's "having a go at you", i don't know as you've never openly declared which way you voted though your postings suggest you went Brexit. Why so coy? Far from obfuscation it's patently clear to many the huge damaging impact Brexit has brought and it's only going to get a lot lot worse.

It may come as a surprise to you but the major internationals were not the only ones threatening to pull out of UK. Arch pro-Brexiteer Dyson said he would eight years ago if UK didn't join the euro. Well now he has shipped out and it's more than just extraordinary timing he announced build of his electric car just days after SN signed FTA's with the EU. If he was so sure of "Brexit being good for UK".......how come he left to go to a country with fta's which Brexit will chuck down the pan? Seems Brexit and possible loss of fta's was enough for Dyson to clear off.

The EU didn't vote for this....Brexiters did. As Remain voters we knew what we'd got already, but Brexiters had zero plans and just a wackadoodle dream of their parallel universe, money trees and promises of unicorns.



If the EU is so good why is Dyson not building his electric car there ?

userteflon2
Posted: 26 January 2019 5:51 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 
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Geeco - 2019-01-26 4:55 AM

As a mater of interest in the last two years GM (Holden), Toyota and Ford have closed their car manufacturing plants in AU. They have relocated manufacturing to cheap labour countries or simply commenced importing "world" design cars to sell here without the influence of a Brexit type event. International companies are experts at deflecting criticism of their actions from the real reason - generally profit. Cheers,




careful Gary they will call you a neanderthal if you challenge their dreamworld.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 26 January 2019 5:56 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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teflon2 - 2019-01-26 5:49 PM.................If the EU is so good why is Dyson not building his electric car there ?

Well, and more to the point, if post-Brexit Britain is to be as rosy as Dyson says it will be, why doesn't he keep his HQ here, and bring back his production as well?
userHarveyHeaven
Posted: 26 January 2019 5:58 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-25 7:17 PM

Not unexpectedly you are accepting Ford's version of blame it on Brexit wheras in the real world Ford has been exiting the UK for years and like you is keen to jump on any passing negative bandwagon, but then just like the little boy who cried wolf once too often it is no less than we expect from you.

That you choose to obfuscate the issue by having a go at me about jobs etc is also unsurprising as you try all means to blame Brexit for everyting and if the sun does not rise tomorrow I guess that too will be the fault of HMG whilst the EU is totally blamefree.

No wonder they call you Bullshout - thats all you do - shout bull.


Richard I would love you to point out some advantages Brexit or the prospect of Brexit have brought to the UK, most especially in relaltion to jobs and the future of the NHS or Research and Development for example?

I don't mean the sound bites the Leave Campaign endlessly spouted but some real good stuff in relation to the above which is happening right now today? What is todays Brexit good news....what really good stuff has happened to us in the UK that woud not have happened without Brexit?
userBulletguy
Posted: 26 January 2019 5:59 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-26 4:25 PM

It's not all about labour costs in isolation, it is also about union power and the UK record for disruption and probably of greater significance worker attitudes and legendary lack of commitment.

I recall a business seminar some 35 years ago where one of the speakers said - 'as a nation we are paying ourselves too much and not working hard enough for it and if it continues will will become less competitive on the world stage'.

How right he was.

I can't speak for Oz, but Gary might?

Apart from the RMT, regards union 'power' in UK Richard it's got about as much teeth as a mouse in need of dentures! The vast majority of UK TU's have long been in the pockets of management. However i've always supported TU membership for many reasons, such as pensions information, industrial working regulations (it's surprising how many are still blatantly ignored by management in their quest for achieving 'target' driven bonuses) and representation in cases of victimisation.

Did your speaker at that business seminar tell everyone he felt he was paid too much so would be taking an immediate pay cut in line with the low paid proles and their occasional 1% rise and starting three shift working as opposed to his cushy 9 to 5? More chance of hell freezing over!
userTracker
Posted: 26 January 2019 6:08 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 5:59 PM

Apart from the RMT, regards union 'power' in UK Richard it's got about as much teeth as a mouse in need of dentures! The vast majority of UK TU's have long been in the pockets of management. However i've always supported TU membership for many reasons, such as pensions information, industrial working regulations (it's surprising how many are still blatantly ignored by management in their quest for achieving 'target' driven bonuses) and representation in cases of victimisation.

Did your speaker at that business seminar tell everyone he felt he was paid too much so would be taking an immediate pay cut in line with the low paid proles and their occasional 1% rise and starting three shift working as opposed to his cushy 9 to 5? More chance of hell freezing over!


Tell the people of Birmingham that the unions have no power or that workers are conscientious and reliable.
It may be bins today but it will be teachers tomorrow, railway staff the day after, NHS the next day and so on and it does the UK image of a good place to invest and grow so much harm.
Which is why I am very anti union and would never support any union, and from that the Labour party who are in cahoots with the worst union disrupters.
Hell freezing over will be the least of our worries if ever Corbyn and cronies gets into power.
userBulletguy
Posted: 26 January 2019 8:41 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-26 6:08 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 5:59 PM

Apart from the RMT, regards union 'power' in UK Richard it's got about as much teeth as a mouse in need of dentures! The vast majority of UK TU's have long been in the pockets of management. However i've always supported TU membership for many reasons, such as pensions information, industrial working regulations (it's surprising how many are still blatantly ignored by management in their quest for achieving 'target' driven bonuses) and representation in cases of victimisation.

Did your speaker at that business seminar tell everyone he felt he was paid too much so would be taking an immediate pay cut in line with the low paid proles and their occasional 1% rise and starting three shift working as opposed to his cushy 9 to 5? More chance of hell freezing over!


Tell the people of Birmingham that the unions have no power or that workers are conscientious and reliable.
It may be bins today but it will be teachers tomorrow, railway staff the day after, NHS the next day and so on and it does the UK image of a good place to invest and grow so much harm.
Which is why I am very anti union and would never support any union, and from that the Labour party who are in cahoots with the worst union disrupters.
Hell freezing over will be the least of our worries if ever Corbyn and cronies gets into power.

No idea where Birmingham slots in but your pov is more than a tad biased and one sided Richard! Plenty of conscientious and reliable workers many of which go totally unrecognised and pretty much get taken for granted.

I spent ten years working in the NHS and back then there were a variety of TU's which today have morphed into UNISON. The only other union was the RCN (Royal College of Nursing) which was so far apart from being a "trade union", at one time it even excluded male nurses from joining. Apart from that draconian backward mindset (obviously since outlawed), the RCN also prided itself on never taking industrial action. That successfully stifled nursing pay for years but they've since seen the light at a recent RCN congress with 78% of the 50,000 nurses who voted, willing to strike, while 91% said they would be willing to take another form of industrial action over the government’s maintenance of the 1% pay rise cap.

Days of Florence Nightingale are over and folk have to get a grip with reality of people needing to put a meal on the table, pay rent/mortgage etc. Nursing alone requires degree level employees and i cannot think of a more dedicated profession with conscientious and reliable workers, yet for years Britain treated them pretty shoddily. They've had to fight damned hard for a decent wage.

Lower down the scale in the NHS you've got thousands of ancillary staff, porters, cleaners, catering etc, all essential to the running of the service. All poorly paid. Much has now been contracted out to private companies, particularly cleaning and catering, with devastating consequences as a result of running sub-contracts on ridiculous shoe-string budgets.

Naturally Tory government have been hankering for years to privatise the NHS. Healthcare is every capitalists dream where morals and ethics fly out the window at the opportunity of making some serious coin. Like anti-abortionist Rees-Mogg who preaches pro-life and believes in the case of rape and worse still incestuous rape, women must carry full term.....yet invests in a company manufacturing abortion pills. Given half a chance Tory government would privatise food banks to capitalise from the austerity and deprivation they've inflicted.

I don't know how your council works with refuse collection but mine are on contract to a private company. For that 'privilege' my collections went from weekly to twice a month, garden weeds/grass cuttings disposal now have to be paid for separately, and my rates increased. Previously i had council employed conscientious and reliable refuse collectors who'd also never taken any industrial action so why go to private sub-contract? Well it's one way of reminding the proles of their place in society i suppose with zero negotiating machinery at national level, and if they as much dare to ask for a bit more gruel, can easily be kicked out for another set to be brought in.
userGeeco
Posted: 26 January 2019 10:06 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 6:38 PMMulti-national companies locate their factories where they think they will generate the best profits. It is a combination of land cost, government inducements, reliable energy supplies, proximity to ports or major transport links (for cars usually rail), political stability, tax structures, local education levels, labour costs, etc. etc. The factory, together with the production machinery, is a huge investment, so needs to be a sound base for a number of years, at least until the investment is amortised, but ideally for years after that point, which is when it becomes really profitable.When the models in production are due for replacement, and the existing plant due a major re-fit, one avenue will be to look at the economics of building a new plant at a new, more favourable, location. That will .

Brian, your summary above is pretty much the way it played out here.

Paul, I was not aware that I suggested that GM & FMC were  linked. I did say Holden was owned by GM like  Opel once was before it was sold to the French. I have no doubt profit is the prime motivator. Look at what happened in Detroit, car plants were moved to the southern states to take advantage of cheaper labour. In the case of AU, Ford took advantage of a FTA with Thailand (along with others) to import the Ford Ranger Ford's biggest seller here. GM are importing from Korea & US.
What I was suggesting was that it is common for car companies to follow profit. If they (in this case FoMoCo) can sneak out under the guise of Brexit then they probably will.
 I am very interested to see what changes on the ground occur as a result of the Brexit March cut off date when we visit in May. So long as I can still buy a gammon steak, egg & chips for dinner I will be fine. cheers,
userBulletguy
Posted: 26 January 2019 11:40 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Geeco - 2019-01-26 10:06 PM

Paul, I was not aware that I suggested that GM & FMC were linked. I did say Holden was owned by GM like Opel once was before it was sold to the French. I have no doubt profit is the prime motivator. Look at what happened in Detroit, car plants were moved to the southern states to take advantage of cheaper labour. In the case of AU, Ford took advantage of a FTA with Thailand (along with others) to import the Ford Ranger Ford's biggest seller here. GM are importing from Korea & US.
What I was suggesting was that it is common for car companies to follow profit. If they (in this case FoMoCo) can sneak out under the guise of Brexit then they probably will.
I am very interested to see what changes on the ground occur as a result of the Brexit March cut off date when we visit in May. So long as I can still buy a gammon steak, egg & chips for dinner I will be fine. cheers,

Yes i realised that though as you probably noticed it instantly got connected to "Ford"....period, by you mentioning Ford in the same line without anyone bothering to look who Holden were or what GM owned.

Despite Brexiters constant wailing, excuses, deflection and claims of "nothing to do with Brexit", these moves are certainly primarily motivated by that (CEO's of the companies have said so) and due to much more than just profit alone (every successful business needs to profit otherwise it goes to the wall). Government has failed to give businesses assurance of frictionless movement of parts which come into UK on a "just in time" (JIT) process and any interruption to that would cost £millions per day. It's not as though it's just a couple of companies. We're seeing a mass exodus of them leaving to relocate and many have been in UK for years yet not one Brexiter can answer the simple question;
if "its got nothing to do with Brexit"......why would they leave now?

I'm still waiting to read one credible and logical answer to that question but none seem capable, or willing, to give one. Just as i'm still waiting to read of one European company relocating to UK as a direct result of Brexit.

James Dyson's move is a classic example but no Brexiteer wants dialogue on that one as Dyson trilled the pro-Brexit 'cause' so is now something of an embarrassment.

Regards your travel, you will breeze in through the 'empty side' as the other side will be rammed with Brits facing “tourism Armageddon” according to Tom Jenkins, chief executive of the European Tourism Association (ETOA). Naturally Brexiters will dismiss this as "project fear/scaremongering/Remoaner bitching" etc etc as they think they know better than people who actually work on the front line.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/brexit-news-holidaymakers-flying-to-europe-warned-of-3hour-airport-delays-with-no-deal-a4048891.html
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 9:38 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 11:40 PM

Geeco - 2019-01-26 10:06 PM

Paul, I was not aware that I suggested that GM & FMC were linked. I did say Holden was owned by GM like Opel once was before it was sold to the French. I have no doubt profit is the prime motivator. Look at what happened in Detroit, car plants were moved to the southern states to take advantage of cheaper labour. In the case of AU, Ford took advantage of a FTA with Thailand (along with others) to import the Ford Ranger Ford's biggest seller here. GM are importing from Korea & US.
What I was suggesting was that it is common for car companies to follow profit. If they (in this case FoMoCo) can sneak out under the guise of Brexit then they probably will.
I am very interested to see what changes on the ground occur as a result of the Brexit March cut off date when we visit in May. So long as I can still buy a gammon steak, egg & chips for dinner I will be fine. cheers,

Yes i realised that though as you probably noticed it instantly got connected to "Ford"....period, by you mentioning Ford in the same line without anyone bothering to look who Holden were or what GM owned.

Despite Brexiters constant wailing, excuses, deflection and claims of "nothing to do with Brexit", these moves are certainly primarily motivated by that (CEO's of the companies have said so) and due to much more than just profit alone (every successful business needs to profit otherwise it goes to the wall). Government has failed to give businesses assurance of frictionless movement of parts which come into UK on a "just in time" (JIT) process and any interruption to that would cost £millions per day. It's not as though it's just a couple of companies. We're seeing a mass exodus of them leaving to relocate and many have been in UK for years yet not one Brexiter can answer the simple question;
if "its got nothing to do with Brexit"......why would they leave now?

I'm still waiting to read one credible and logical answer to that question but none seem capable, or willing, to give one. Just as i'm still waiting to read of one European company relocating to UK as a direct result of Brexit. l


So if Brexit was cancelled JLR wouldn't relocate to Slovakia? ............

Blimey you Remoaners are terminally Dumb if you think that ........

userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 12:59 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:38 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 11:40 PM

Geeco - 2019-01-26 10:06 PM

Paul, I was not aware that I suggested that GM & FMC were linked. I did say Holden was owned by GM like Opel once was before it was sold to the French. I have no doubt profit is the prime motivator. Look at what happened in Detroit, car plants were moved to the southern states to take advantage of cheaper labour. In the case of AU, Ford took advantage of a FTA with Thailand (along with others) to import the Ford Ranger Ford's biggest seller here. GM are importing from Korea & US.
What I was suggesting was that it is common for car companies to follow profit. If they (in this case FoMoCo) can sneak out under the guise of Brexit then they probably will.
I am very interested to see what changes on the ground occur as a result of the Brexit March cut off date when we visit in May. So long as I can still buy a gammon steak, egg & chips for dinner I will be fine. cheers,

Yes i realised that though as you probably noticed it instantly got connected to "Ford"....period, by you mentioning Ford in the same line without anyone bothering to look who Holden were or what GM owned.

Despite Brexiters constant wailing, excuses, deflection and claims of "nothing to do with Brexit", these moves are certainly primarily motivated by that (CEO's of the companies have said so) and due to much more than just profit alone (every successful business needs to profit otherwise it goes to the wall). Government has failed to give businesses assurance of frictionless movement of parts which come into UK on a "just in time" (JIT) process and any interruption to that would cost £millions per day. It's not as though it's just a couple of companies. We're seeing a mass exodus of them leaving to relocate and many have been in UK for years yet not one Brexiter can answer the simple question;
if "its got nothing to do with Brexit"......why would they leave now?

I'm still waiting to read one credible and logical answer to that question but none seem capable, or willing, to give one. Just as i'm still waiting to read of one European company relocating to UK as a direct result of Brexit. l


So if Brexit was cancelled JLR wouldn't relocate to Slovakia? ............

Blimey you Remoaners are terminally Dumb if you think that ........

No they would still continue to build the new Discovery there as planned to do anyway but JLR build more than one model and they spent £4.2 billion last year in UK R&D development which is likely to remain as that's not production which requires frictionless movement and JIT delivery which all production works to and needs, specifically automotive, not to mention fta's which Brexit wants to throw down the pan.

Europe also has the largest number of JLR retailers with almost 800 outlets across 42 countries, so just as Dyson has done, they are going to where they can continue to produce and flourish as a business with ready access to a massive fta market on their doorstep (as your Brexit chum Johnson once said, 'why would we turn our back on that'?). By 2020 they're also looking to build all electric.

JLR manufacture high end luxury cars......not unicorns.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 12:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:38 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 11:40 PM

Geeco - 2019-01-26 10:06 PM

Paul, I was not aware that I suggested that GM & FMC were linked. I did say Holden was owned by GM like Opel once was before it was sold to the French. I have no doubt profit is the prime motivator. Look at what happened in Detroit, car plants were moved to the southern states to take advantage of cheaper labour. In the case of AU, Ford took advantage of a FTA with Thailand (along with others) to import the Ford Ranger Ford's biggest seller here. GM are importing from Korea & US.
What I was suggesting was that it is common for car companies to follow profit. If they (in this case FoMoCo) can sneak out under the guise of Brexit then they probably will.
I am very interested to see what changes on the ground occur as a result of the Brexit March cut off date when we visit in May. So long as I can still buy a gammon steak, egg & chips for dinner I will be fine. cheers,

Yes i realised that though as you probably noticed it instantly got connected to "Ford"....period, by you mentioning Ford in the same line without anyone bothering to look who Holden were or what GM owned.

Despite Brexiters constant wailing, excuses, deflection and claims of "nothing to do with Brexit", these moves are certainly primarily motivated by that (CEO's of the companies have said so) and due to much more than just profit alone (every successful business needs to profit otherwise it goes to the wall). Government has failed to give businesses assurance of frictionless movement of parts which come into UK on a "just in time" (JIT) process and any interruption to that would cost £millions per day. It's not as though it's just a couple of companies. We're seeing a mass exodus of them leaving to relocate and many have been in UK for years yet not one Brexiter can answer the simple question;
if "its got nothing to do with Brexit"......why would they leave now?

I'm still waiting to read one credible and logical answer to that question but none seem capable, or willing, to give one. Just as i'm still waiting to read of one European company relocating to UK as a direct result of Brexit. l


So if Brexit was cancelled JLR wouldn't relocate to Slovakia? ............

Blimey you Remoaners are terminally Dumb if you think that ........

No they would still continue to build the new Discovery there as planned to do anyway but JLR build more than one model and they spent £4.2 billion last year in UK R&D development which is likely to remain as that's not production which requires frictionless movement and JIT delivery which all production works to and needs, specifically automotive, not to mention fta's which Brexit wants to throw down the pan.

Europe also has the largest number of JLR retailers with almost 800 outlets across 42 countries, so just as Dyson has done, they are going to where they can continue to produce and flourish as a business with ready access to a massive fta market on their doorstep (as your Brexit chum Johnson once said, 'why would we turn our back on that'?). By 2020 they're also looking to build all electric.

JLR manufacture high end luxury cars......not unicorns.


You really haven't grasped how automotive companies work have you Bullet? ........

They move to where they get the biggest bung and the cheapest labour........and they do it bit by bit so as not to annoy their customers too much ..........

userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 1:07 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 12:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:38 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 11:40 PM

Geeco - 2019-01-26 10:06 PM

Paul, I was not aware that I suggested that GM & FMC were linked. I did say Holden was owned by GM like Opel once was before it was sold to the French. I have no doubt profit is the prime motivator. Look at what happened in Detroit, car plants were moved to the southern states to take advantage of cheaper labour. In the case of AU, Ford took advantage of a FTA with Thailand (along with others) to import the Ford Ranger Ford's biggest seller here. GM are importing from Korea & US.
What I was suggesting was that it is common for car companies to follow profit. If they (in this case FoMoCo) can sneak out under the guise of Brexit then they probably will.
I am very interested to see what changes on the ground occur as a result of the Brexit March cut off date when we visit in May. So long as I can still buy a gammon steak, egg & chips for dinner I will be fine. cheers,

Yes i realised that though as you probably noticed it instantly got connected to "Ford"....period, by you mentioning Ford in the same line without anyone bothering to look who Holden were or what GM owned.

Despite Brexiters constant wailing, excuses, deflection and claims of "nothing to do with Brexit", these moves are certainly primarily motivated by that (CEO's of the companies have said so) and due to much more than just profit alone (every successful business needs to profit otherwise it goes to the wall). Government has failed to give businesses assurance of frictionless movement of parts which come into UK on a "just in time" (JIT) process and any interruption to that would cost £millions per day. It's not as though it's just a couple of companies. We're seeing a mass exodus of them leaving to relocate and many have been in UK for years yet not one Brexiter can answer the simple question;
if "its got nothing to do with Brexit"......why would they leave now?

I'm still waiting to read one credible and logical answer to that question but none seem capable, or willing, to give one. Just as i'm still waiting to read of one European company relocating to UK as a direct result of Brexit. l


So if Brexit was cancelled JLR wouldn't relocate to Slovakia? ............

Blimey you Remoaners are terminally Dumb if you think that ........

No they would still continue to build the new Discovery there as planned to do anyway but JLR build more than one model and they spent £4.2 billion last year in UK R&D development which is likely to remain as that's not production which requires frictionless movement and JIT delivery which all production works to and needs, specifically automotive, not to mention fta's which Brexit wants to throw down the pan.

Europe also has the largest number of JLR retailers with almost 800 outlets across 42 countries, so just as Dyson has done, they are going to where they can continue to produce and flourish as a business with ready access to a massive fta market on their doorstep (as your Brexit chum Johnson once said, 'why would we turn our back on that'?). By 2020 they're also looking to build all electric.

JLR manufacture high end luxury cars......not unicorns.


You really haven't grasped how automotive companies work have you Bullet? ........

They move to where they get the biggest bung and the cheapest labour........and they do it bit by bit so as not to annoy their customers too much ..........

You're grasping at straws now Dave. If you believe that's the primary motivator you'll explain what Ford-Werke GmbH is doing in Cologne employing over 28,000 when German labour is hardly 'cheap'. Same with Dyson going off to Singapore to build his car. SN has one of the highest labour rates in the world.....but it also signed fta's with the EU and that's why Dyson has gone there. You don't like to mention his fleeing from UK do you? I can't think why!

It's about marketing, fta's, and maintaining frictionless movement which, had UK remained in the EU, they would still have.

Edited by Bulletguy 2019-01-27 2:26 PM
userTracker
Posted: 27 January 2019 2:32 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Or maybe its got more to do with Merkel being in charge of those who dish out the bungs? ........

userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 4:24 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

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Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?

UK automotive industry of the 70's has long gone and though many, no doubt yourself, will only blame the shop floor workforce, the management of that era was atrociously inept with zero skills in man-management and more concerned with keeping the shareholders happy at any cost. They bear responsibility for it's inevitable downfall but our bad attitude meant it was always easier to kick the guy on the shop floor than the guys in the boardroom.

We've also had long history of treating engineering with little importance and undervalued the people we have which is where Germany differs. Motivation is achieved in many ways, not least of all (obviously) with a decent level of pay in accordance with relevant skills/qualifications but that's only the start point. Working environment, well designed lines (if production), quality equipment suited to the job, and a management that listens and can actually lead by example rather than barking commands.

It's worth taking a look inside the Ford factory at Cologne where 1,400 cars leave the production line every single day. Interestingly a British guy is CEO there so man-management attitudes have finally changed.

https://www.channel4.com/news/hard-brexit-threat-to-british-motor-industry
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 4:33 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 4:24 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?

UK automotive industry of the 70's has long gone and though many, no doubt yourself, will only blame the shop floor workforce, the management of that era was atrociously inept with zero skills in man-management and more concerned with keeping the shareholders happy at any cost. They bear responsibility for it's inevitable downfall but our bad attitude meant it was always easier to kick the guy on the shop floor than the guys in the boardroom.



That's prolly why they started looking South for cheap Labour in the 70's .......

It was easier than dealing with UK Socialists .......

"The use of low-wage markets for the home market is nothing new for the European automotive industry. Through the liberalization in the 1970s and the entry into the European Economic Community (ECC), Spain and Portugal became the first important low-wage rentals for the European automotive industry. GM, Ford Renault, and PSA opened new plants there, while Volkswagen took control of the Spanish manufacturer Seat. The labor costs per hour in Spain were at around 50 percent of those of the level in Germany in the 1970s and 1980s (Pallares-Barbera, 1998: 350); in the meantime, however, the wage level in Spain has risen. In the early 1990s the Iberian Peninsula was superseded by Central Eastern Europe in its function as the low-wage periphery."

https://journals.openedition.org/regulation/10663

No doubt it was Brexits fault ? ...........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-27 4:34 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 5:24 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 4:33 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 4:24 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?

UK automotive industry of the 70's has long gone and though many, no doubt yourself, will only blame the shop floor workforce, the management of that era was atrociously inept with zero skills in man-management and more concerned with keeping the shareholders happy at any cost. They bear responsibility for it's inevitable downfall but our bad attitude meant it was always easier to kick the guy on the shop floor than the guys in the boardroom.



That's prolly why they started looking South for cheap Labour in the 70's .......

What a load of guff and what on earth does "prolly" mean? Did you ever get beyond nursery?

Meanwhile......look, listen and learn.

https://www.channel4.com/news/hard-brexit-threat-to-british-motor-industry
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 27 January 2019 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 4:33 PM...…………………..No doubt it was Brexits fault ? ...........

Probably not all Brexit's fault, Dave, but can you explain how it helps?

The evidence is that in a country which is legendary as a costly place to manufacture, in part due to our low productivity, our fluctuating currency value, the uncertainty over Brexit, its indeterminate timing, and its unknown aftermath, companies which need to making major new investments in the next few years are looking elsewhere. That is what we are seeing. For a number of companies, it has become a tipping point, for others a fig-leaf to excuse a politically embarrassing decision. It doesn't really matter which, it is the exodus itself that is damaging. Rats and the sinking ship?
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:06 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:25 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 4:33 PM...…………………..No doubt it was Brexits fault ? ...........

Probably not all Brexit's fault, Dave, but can you explain how it helps?

The evidence is that in a country which is legendary as a costly place to manufacture, in part due to our low productivity, our fluctuating currency value, the uncertainty over Brexit, its indeterminate timing, and its unknown aftermath, companies which need to making major new investments in the next few years are looking elsewhere. That is what we are seeing. For a number of companies, it has become a tipping point, for others a fig-leaf to excuse a politically embarrassing decision. It doesn't really matter which, it is the exodus itself that is damaging. Rats and the sinking ship?


It helps by simplifying things............especially when a ship is sinking .........

When the Titanic was sinking, it wasn't just the women & children that got off......it was those with a natural sense of self preservation ..........

What's your fiddling like?.........Because there is a orchestra on the EU Titanic that needs you ........

user747
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:33 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:25 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 4:33 PM...…………………..No doubt it was Brexits fault ? ...........

Probably not all Brexit's fault, Dave, but can you explain how it helps?

The evidence is that in a country which is legendary as a costly place to manufacture, in part due to our low productivity, our fluctuating currency value, the uncertainty over Brexit, its indeterminate timing, and its unknown aftermath, companies which need to making major new investments in the next few years are looking elsewhere. That is what we are seeing. For a number of companies, it has become a tipping point, for others a fig-leaf to excuse a politically embarrassing decision. It doesn't really matter which, it is the exodus itself that is damaging. Rats and the sinking ship?


Why is it costly Brian? Is that down to the working man? Does the working man equip his company with the best equipment or is that down to Owners and Management? Are you saying that British workers are lazy?

Why aren't you pointing the finger at successive Governments? Why aren't you blaming Companies who are (to use your words) legendary at their lack of investment?

I have worked in Engineering and that work took me to most European countries plus others worldwide. The average British worker holds up very well against his German counterpart and other Europeans.
userteflon2
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:57 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 
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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 5:56 PM

teflon2 - 2019-01-26 5:49 PM.................If the EU is so good why is Dyson not building his electric car there ?

Well, and more to the point, if post-Brexit Britain is to be as rosy as Dyson says it will be, why doesn't he keep his HQ here, and bring back his production as well?




But Brian you keep saying that Ford are leaving because of Brexit in which case would they not relocate in a EU country instead of moving half way round the world.
userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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teflon2 - 2019-01-27 6:57 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-26 5:56 PM

teflon2 - 2019-01-26 5:49 PM.................If the EU is so good why is Dyson not building his electric car there ?

Well, and more to the point, if post-Brexit Britain is to be as rosy as Dyson says it will be, why doesn't he keep his HQ here, and bring back his production as well?


But Brian you keep saying that Ford are leaving because of Brexit in which case would they not relocate in a EU country instead of moving half way round the world.

Reason Dyson is building in Singapore is they signed FTA's with the EU and Dyson wants access to the EU market. He already has an assembly plant there anyway as well as Malaysia and Philippines.

Dyson CEO Jim Rowan said that the decision of where to make the electric vehicle was based on supply chains and access to markets.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 7:41 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 9:01 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:41 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

Higher production doesn't necessarily equate to higher standards though....which German auto workers have long been known for.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


Walks with the gods

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Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 9:01 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:41 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

Higher production doesn't necessarily equate to higher standards though....which German auto workers have long been known for.


Could it be that the EU is looking after their boss?........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/eu-production

It's curious that the low productivity German car industry appears to being protected ..........

Whilst the high productivity UK car industry is being moved to low wage economies? ..........

userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 9:40 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:14 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 9:01 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:41 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

Higher production doesn't necessarily equate to higher standards though....which German auto workers have long been known for.


Could it be that the EU is looking after their boss?........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/eu-production

It's curious that the low productivity German car industry appears to being protected ..........

Whilst the high productivity UK car industry is being moved to low wage economies? ..........

You've been spending too much time with your head buried in Alex Jones website and trawling Icke forums.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 9:42 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


Walks with the gods

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Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 9:01 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:41 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

Higher production doesn't necessarily equate to higher standards though....which German auto workers have long been known for.


Higher standards? ..........
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/most-reliable-cars

Lexus NX SUV. ...
Kia Sorento SUV. ...
Toyota Prius hatchback. ...
Mazda MX-5 roadster. ...
Peugeot 3008 SUV. ...
Honda CR-V SUV (2012-2018) ...
Mazda CX-5 SUV. ...
Toyota Verso MPV (2013-2018)

Lets play spot the German maker? ........



userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 10:14 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

Posts: 10107
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Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:42 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 9:01 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:41 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

Higher production doesn't necessarily equate to higher standards though....which German auto workers have long been known for.


Higher standards? ..........
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/most-reliable-cars

Lexus NX SUV. ...
Kia Sorento SUV. ...
Toyota Prius hatchback. ...
Mazda MX-5 roadster. ...
Peugeot 3008 SUV. ...
Honda CR-V SUV (2012-2018) ...
Mazda CX-5 SUV. ...
Toyota Verso MPV (2013-2018)

Lets play spot the German maker? ........

No problem.....

10 Most Reliable German Cars 2018
2018 Audi A4.
2018 Audi A4 allroad. ...
2018 BMW 2 Series. ...
2018 BMW 3 Series. ...
2018 BMW 5 Series. ...
2018 BMW 7 Series. ...
2018 Mercedes-Benz E-Class. ...
2018 Porsche 911.

Edited by Bulletguy 2019-01-27 10:16 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 10:22 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 26429
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 10:14 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:42 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 9:01 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:41 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

Higher production doesn't necessarily equate to higher standards though....which German auto workers have long been known for.


Higher standards? ..........
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/most-reliable-cars

Lexus NX SUV. ...
Kia Sorento SUV. ...
Toyota Prius hatchback. ...
Mazda MX-5 roadster. ...
Peugeot 3008 SUV. ...
Honda CR-V SUV (2012-2018) ...
Mazda CX-5 SUV. ...
Toyota Verso MPV (2013-2018)

Lets play spot the German maker? ........

No problem.....

10 Most Reliable German Cars 2018
2018 Audi A4.
2018 Audi A4 allroad. ...
2018 BMW 2 Series. ...
2018 BMW 3 Series. ...
2018 BMW 5 Series. ...
2018 BMW 7 Series. ...
2018 Mercedes-Benz E-Class. ...
2018 Porsche 911.


Nice try Dumb Dumb.........So where did they come when compared to other makes??? .........

userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 10:43 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

Posts: 10107
50005000100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2019-01-27 10:22 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 10:14 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:42 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 9:01 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:41 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

Higher production doesn't necessarily equate to higher standards though....which German auto workers have long been known for.


Higher standards? ..........
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/most-reliable-cars

Lexus NX SUV. ...
Kia Sorento SUV. ...
Toyota Prius hatchback. ...
Mazda MX-5 roadster. ...
Peugeot 3008 SUV. ...
Honda CR-V SUV (2012-2018) ...
Mazda CX-5 SUV. ...
Toyota Verso MPV (2013-2018)

Lets play spot the German maker? ........

No problem.....

10 Most Reliable German Cars 2018
2018 Audi A4.
2018 Audi A4 allroad. ...
2018 BMW 2 Series. ...
2018 BMW 3 Series. ...
2018 BMW 5 Series. ...
2018 BMW 7 Series. ...
2018 Mercedes-Benz E-Class. ...
2018 Porsche 911.


Nice try Dumb Dumb.........So where did they come when compared to other makes??? .........

Didn't need any trying......Planker. No comparison when it comes to reliability either. Why else are Mercs the first choice of most German taxi drivers? Capable of crazy mileage. Not surprised at the Audi A4 either as my son has one which he bought with 25 or 30k on the clock and now has 185k yet still looks and performs like new. His wifes is a 2018 model but i'd prefer my sons older one as her Audi has the daft start/stop on which i find a nuisance to drive.
userpelmetman
Posted: 28 January 2019 10:06 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 26429
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 10:43 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 10:22 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 10:14 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:42 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 9:01 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:41 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

Higher production doesn't necessarily equate to higher standards though....which German auto workers have long been known for.


Higher standards? ..........
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/most-reliable-cars

Lexus NX SUV. ...
Kia Sorento SUV. ...
Toyota Prius hatchback. ...
Mazda MX-5 roadster. ...
Peugeot 3008 SUV. ...
Honda CR-V SUV (2012-2018) ...
Mazda CX-5 SUV. ...
Toyota Verso MPV (2013-2018)

Lets play spot the German maker? ........

No problem.....

10 Most Reliable German Cars 2018
2018 Audi A4.
2018 Audi A4 allroad. ...
2018 BMW 2 Series. ...
2018 BMW 3 Series. ...
2018 BMW 5 Series. ...
2018 BMW 7 Series. ...
2018 Mercedes-Benz E-Class. ...
2018 Porsche 911.


Nice try Dumb Dumb.........So where did they come when compared to other makes??? .........

Didn't need any trying......Planker. No comparison when it comes to reliability either. Why else are Mercs the first choice of most German taxi drivers? Capable of crazy mileage. Not surprised at the Audi A4 either as my son has one which he bought with 25 or 30k on the clock and now has 185k yet still looks and performs like new. His wifes is a 2018 model but i'd prefer my sons older one as her Audi has the daft start/stop on which i find a nuisance to drive.


Next time you see a AA repairman ask him what make of vehicle they get called out to the most .......

I'll give you a clue it starts with a B and ends in a W ........

userBulletguy
Posted: 28 January 2019 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

Posts: 10107
50005000100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2019-01-28 10:06 AM

Next time you see a AA repairman ask him what make of vehicle they get called out to the most .......

I'll give you a clue it starts with a B and ends in a W ........

You suggested this before so i did, and he told me whoever told you that is talking out of his backside. When i mentioned your fm name and dwelling 'abode' he said he'd lost count of the times he's seen that old wreck on the side of the road with bonnet up and a bloke gazing in astonishment an engine is still there.
userteflon2
Posted: 28 January 2019 6:40 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 
Pillar of the forums

Posts: 790
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Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 10:43 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 10:22 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 10:14 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:42 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 9:01 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:41 PM

Tracker - 2019-01-27 2:32 PM

Maybe it has more to do with motivation and German workers not taking sickies when they feel like it and producing a higher standard of workmanship?


Maybe that's another EU myth Rich .........

https://www.acea.be/statistics/tag/category/per-capita-production

Ooooer Mrs ........UK workers are more productive than the Germans ........

Higher production doesn't necessarily equate to higher standards though....which German auto workers have long been known for.


Higher standards? ..........
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/most-reliable-cars

Lexus NX SUV. ...
Kia Sorento SUV. ...
Toyota Prius hatchback. ...
Mazda MX-5 roadster. ...
Peugeot 3008 SUV. ...
Honda CR-V SUV (2012-2018) ...
Mazda CX-5 SUV. ...
Toyota Verso MPV (2013-2018)

Lets play spot the German maker? ........

No problem.....

10 Most Reliable German Cars 2018
2018 Audi A4.
2018 Audi A4 allroad. ...
2018 BMW 2 Series. ...
2018 BMW 3 Series. ...
2018 BMW 5 Series. ...
2018 BMW 7 Series. ...
2018 Mercedes-Benz E-Class. ...
2018 Porsche 911.


Nice try Dumb Dumb.........So where did they come when compared to other makes??? .........

Didn't need any trying......Planker. No comparison when it comes to reliability either. Why else are Mercs the first choice of most German taxi drivers? Capable of crazy mileage. Not surprised at the Audi A4 either as my son has one which he bought with 25 or 30k on the clock and now has 185k yet still looks and performs like new. His wifes is a 2018 model but i'd prefer my sons older one as her Audi has the daft start/stop on which i find a nuisance to drive.




The clue might be in German Merc. German taxi driver.
userBulletguy
Posted: 28 January 2019 6:53 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

Posts: 10107
50005000100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


teflon2 - 2019-01-28 6:40 PM

The clue might be in German Merc. German taxi driver.

Surprised to find it's also the favoured choice for Albanian taxi drivers as roads there can go from smooth tarmac to rough with frequency.....though not the later models. They go for the old E Class which had stronger suspension than later ones.
user747
Posted: 28 January 2019 7:31 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1943
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Location: Tyne and Wear - Burstner Delphin Performance T821


Bulletguy - 2019-01-28 6:53 PM

teflon2 - 2019-01-28 6:40 PM

The clue might be in German Merc. German taxi driver.

Surprised to find it's also the favoured choice for Albanian taxi drivers as roads there can go from smooth tarmac to rough with frequency.....though not the later models. They go for the old E Class which had stronger suspension than later ones.


There is a strong trade in stolen Mercs ending up in Eastern Europe. It's part of the charm of having no EU Borders. The days are long gone when they were stolen, moved to Spain and then shipped to North Africa for onward movement South. I knew a Belgian guy who made Pies in Salou during the Summer and smuggled cars South during the Winter.
userBulletguy
Posted: 28 January 2019 8:41 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

Posts: 10107
50005000100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


747 - 2019-01-28 7:31 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-28 6:53 PM

teflon2 - 2019-01-28 6:40 PM

The clue might be in German Merc. German taxi driver.

Surprised to find it's also the favoured choice for Albanian taxi drivers as roads there can go from smooth tarmac to rough with frequency.....though not the later models. They go for the old E Class which had stronger suspension than later ones.


There is a strong trade in stolen Mercs ending up in Eastern Europe. It's part of the charm of having no EU Borders. The days are long gone when they were stolen, moved to Spain and then shipped to North Africa for onward movement South. I knew a Belgian guy who made Pies in Salou during the Summer and smuggled cars South during the Winter.

Bulgaria and Romania but neither are Schengen so got to pass through border controls, both of which are strict and slow. Albania of course isn't EU or Schengen and their border officers don't pussy around. Any vehicle is fair game to be pulled, particularly foreign reg motorhomes, though they're looking for drugs more than anything.

Forget Eastern Europe. There's a cracking trade in stolen cars right here in UK. High end stuff, Range Rovers, Audi Q7's, BMW X5's etc......all headed for Uganda because they drive same side as us so RHD vehicles. Most are fitted with Trackers so how are they going?

This lot was found purely by police being patient and not jumping (saw the documentary on it). A Lexus fitted with a Tracker got nicked in London, so police sat tight and watched it's every move. Down at Dover within an hour of it being nicked, then across the channel, next signal they picked up was at Antwerp after which it was on a ship and eventually ended up in Uganda.

UK police contacted Ugandan police with the exact gps location of the car. They got back to them and said, "you'd best send some officers over here asap as there's a lot more than just one". The Ugandan police nabbed the whole gang along with over a million quids worth of cars.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2016/03/23/stolen-uk-cars-recovered-from-uganda

Good old Interpol and Europol......might be ok with Interpol but looks like Brexiters want to wave Europol goodbye....oh dear.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-security-eu-europol-cooperation-data-sis-ii-arrest-warrant-police-a8333011.html

https://fullfact.org/europe/brexit-membership-interpol/

userGeeco
Posted: 29 January 2019 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


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Posts: 531
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 Paul, This link describes where and more importantly why cars bound for the AU market are manufactured. This is to back up my comments on profit as the reason for car manufacturers moving from high labour cost countries such as UK and AU. Cheers,

.https://youtu.be/DNnX4MufOs8
user747
Posted: 29 January 2019 9:49 AM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1943
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Location: Tyne and Wear - Burstner Delphin Performance T821


If you really believe the statement you made then you are thicker than I took you for.

Your quote: Bulgaria and Romania but neither are Schengen so got to pass through border controls, both of which are strict and slow. Albania of course isn't EU or Schengen and their border officers don't pussy around. Any vehicle is fair game to be pulled, particularly foreign reg motorhomes, though they're looking for drugs more than anything.

You owe me an apology because I ricked my back while rolling on the floor laughing.

Mind you, you are not as thick as the Government of the late 1980's and 90's who allowed in thousands of Albanians who turned up in the UK stating that they were Kosovans seeking asylum (all accepted without any ID to prove their nationality).
userBulletguy
Posted: 29 January 2019 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

Posts: 10107
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Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


747 - 2019-01-29 9:49 AM

If you really believe the statement you made then you are thicker than I took you for.

Your quote: Bulgaria and Romania but neither are Schengen so got to pass through border controls, both of which are strict and slow. Albania of course isn't EU or Schengen and their border officers don't pussy around. Any vehicle is fair game to be pulled, particularly foreign reg motorhomes, though they're looking for drugs more than anything.

You owe me an apology because I ricked my back while rolling on the floor laughing.

Mind you, you are not as thick as the Government of the late 1980's and 90's who allowed in thousands of Albanians who turned up in the UK stating that they were Kosovans seeking asylum (all accepted without any ID to prove their nationality).

Ok pedant.....as of six weeks ago or to be pedantic Dec 11th 2018 for BG and RO when the EP voted for them to join "as soon as is possible". I was in both countries seven month ago when neither were not Schengen.....otherwise i wouldn't have had to sit queuing in baking heat to get through.

As for Albania......let me know when it becomes a member state of EU and when it joins Schengen. So pick yourself up off the floor.

Edited by Bulletguy 2019-01-29 3:35 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 29 January 2019 3:28 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

Posts: 10107
50005000100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


Geeco - 2019-01-29 5:45 AM

 Paul, This link describes where and more importantly why cars bound for the AU market are manufactured. This is to back up my comments on profit as the reason for car manufacturers moving from high labour cost countries such as UK and AU. Cheers,

.https://youtu.be/DNnX4MufOs8

Thanks for the link Gary.....will have a look later..
user747
Posted: 29 January 2019 5:07 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1943
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Location: Tyne and Wear - Burstner Delphin Performance T821


Bulletguy - 2019-01-29 3:26 PM

747 - 2019-01-29 9:49 AM

If you really believe the statement you made then you are thicker than I took you for.

Your quote: Bulgaria and Romania but neither are Schengen so got to pass through border controls, both of which are strict and slow. Albania of course isn't EU or Schengen and their border officers don't pussy around. Any vehicle is fair game to be pulled, particularly foreign reg motorhomes, though they're looking for drugs more than anything.

You owe me an apology because I ricked my back while rolling on the floor laughing.

Mind you, you are not as thick as the Government of the late 1980's and 90's who allowed in thousands of Albanians who turned up in the UK stating that they were Kosovans seeking asylum (all accepted without any ID to prove their nationality).

Ok pedant.....as of six weeks ago or to be pedantic Dec 11th 2018 for BG and RO when the EP voted for them to join "as soon as is possible". I was in both countries seven month ago when neither were not Schengen.....otherwise i wouldn't have had to sit queuing in baking heat to get through.

As for Albania......let me know when it becomes a member state of EU and when it joins Schengen. So pick yourself up off the floor.


The reference to Albania was referring to stolen vehicles, not the EU members ..... as well you knew. Either that or you truly are the village idiot in your place of residence.

Wow, you went as far as Eastern Europe in a campervan .... you brave soul you.
userBulletguy
Posted: 29 January 2019 6:08 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


The special one

Posts: 10107
50005000100
Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


747 - 2019-01-29 5:07 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-29 3:26 PM

747 - 2019-01-29 9:49 AM

If you really believe the statement you made then you are thicker than I took you for.

Your quote: Bulgaria and Romania but neither are Schengen so got to pass through border controls, both of which are strict and slow. Albania of course isn't EU or Schengen and their border officers don't pussy around. Any vehicle is fair game to be pulled, particularly foreign reg motorhomes, though they're looking for drugs more than anything.

You owe me an apology because I ricked my back while rolling on the floor laughing.

Mind you, you are not as thick as the Government of the late 1980's and 90's who allowed in thousands of Albanians who turned up in the UK stating that they were Kosovans seeking asylum (all accepted without any ID to prove their nationality).

Ok pedant.....as of six weeks ago or to be pedantic Dec 11th 2018 for BG and RO when the EP voted for them to join "as soon as is possible". I was in both countries seven month ago when neither were not Schengen.....otherwise i wouldn't have had to sit queuing in baking heat to get through.

As for Albania......let me know when it becomes a member state of EU and when it joins Schengen. So pick yourself up off the floor.


The reference to Albania was referring to stolen vehicles, not the EU members ..... as well you knew. Either that or you truly are the village idiot in your place of residence.

Albania......stolen vehicle market? You having a laugh or what? There's way more money made in Mafia run drug trade than cars.

Wow, you went as far as Eastern Europe in a campervan .... you brave soul you.

Always have. Most of my touring is in East European countries. Why go to a country rammed with chip shops and Irish pubs serving roast beef and yorkshire pud when i can get that in UK?
user747
Posted: 29 January 2019 10:34 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


Epic contributor

Posts: 1943
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Location: Tyne and Wear - Burstner Delphin Performance T821


You need to broaden your horizons young man. Travel broadens the mind dontcha know.

In your case you will need to travel extensively and for a long time, I hope you can fund it.
userpelmetman
Posted: 29 January 2019 10:38 PM
Subject: RE: Ford - 'no deal' would cost $1 billion
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 26429
50005000500050005000100010010010010025
Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


747 - 2019-01-29 10:34 PM

You need to broaden your horizons young man. Travel broadens the mind dontcha know.

In your case you will need to travel extensively and for a long time, I hope you can fund it.


Comrade Bullet only like's to visit ex Soviet right wing countries ..........