EMA closure
userHarveyHeaven
Posted: 26 January 2019 7:12 PM
Subject: EMA closure
 


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What are the Brexiters saying about this? I guess they will blame the EU not the UK despite it being the UK who pulled out of the EU and not the other way round.

In September it emerged that Britain’s leading role in evaluating new medicines for sale to patients across the EU had collapsed with no more work coming from Europe because of Brexit.

The European Medicines Agency has been in London since 1995 and has closed its offices for the last time on Friday with the loss of 900 jobs. This is as a direct result of Brexit as the EMA has to operate from within a member state of the EU.

My prediction is that no Brexiter will respond.....or if the do they will refuse to admit it was Brexit....mind you I'm not sure who or what else they CAN blame in this instance.........Prroject Fear is not an acceptable answer since it is just a sound bite.

Edited by HarveyHeaven 2019-01-26 7:15 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 26 January 2019 8:22 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Loss of 900 jobs? ...........

"According to the 2017 EBA expenditure report, 134 of the agency's staff are temporary, 33 are on full-time contracts and 17 are seconded national experts. Just 12 of the staff are U.K. citizens according to the EBA annual report. The EMA’s annual report says in 2016 they had 587 temporary staff, and 143 contract staff. It employs around 60 U.K. nationals."

As I understand it they all have the option to relocate ........Even the 60 Brits they employ .........

https://www.politico.eu/article/ema-eba-staff-london-benefits/





Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-26 8:30 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 26 January 2019 9:08 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-26 7:12 PM

What are the Brexiters saying about this? I guess they will blame the EU not the UK despite it being the UK who pulled out of the EU and not the other way round.

My prediction is that no Brexiter will respond.....or if the do they will refuse to admit it was Brexit....mind you I'm not sure who or what else they CAN blame in this instance.........Project Fear is not an acceptable answer since it is just a sound bite.

Typically pretty much ignoring it. Blue passports and 'borders' are more important to them. Comments on this tweet are interesting.

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1088844259934064640

Also last year trialing of a new heart drug was abandoned as a result of Brexit. Brexiters will deny this also.

A Scottish government spokesman said "this is the first clinical study we are aware of to be suspended in Scotland as a result of Brexit - and a very concerning sign of what could happen".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45727317
userHarveyHeaven
Posted: 27 January 2019 8:38 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-26 8:22 PM

Loss of 900 jobs? ...........

"According to the 2017 EBA expenditure report, 134 of the agency's staff are temporary, 33 are on full-time contracts and 17 are seconded national experts. Just 12 of the staff are U.K. citizens according to the EBA annual report. The EMA’s annual report says in 2016 they had 587 temporary staff, and 143 contract staff. It employs around 60 U.K. nationals."

As I understand it they all have the option to relocate ........Even the 60 Brits they employ .........

https://www.politico.eu/article/ema-eba-staff-london-benefits/


...but you haven't yet expressed a view... on the fact that Brexit is responsible not only for job losses but for the loss of status, expertise and research and development in a crucial area??
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 9:26 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-27 8:38 AM


...but you haven't yet expressed a view... on the fact that Brexit is responsible not only for job losses but for the loss of status, expertise and research and development in a crucial area??



What job losses? ............As I understand it they're being relocated ..........

Do you know how many of the "60" Brits employed have decided not to relocate? .........

As for loss of status? ...........

Is that more important to you Remoaners than the millions we plough into EU quango's ...........



userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 9:32 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 9:08 PM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-26 7:12 PM

What are the Brexiters saying about this? I guess they will blame the EU not the UK despite it being the UK who pulled out of the EU and not the other way round.

My prediction is that no Brexiter will respond.....or if the do they will refuse to admit it was Brexit....mind you I'm not sure who or what else they CAN blame in this instance.........Project Fear is not an acceptable answer since it is just a sound bite.

Typically pretty much ignoring it. Blue passports and 'borders' are more important to them. Comments on this tweet are interesting.

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1088844259934064640

Also last year trialing of a new heart drug was abandoned as a result of Brexit. Brexiters will deny this also.

A Scottish government spokesman said "this is the first clinical study we are aware of to be suspended in Scotland as a result of Brexit - and a very concerning sign of what could happen".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45727317


So basically your saying drug companies wont be using Brits as guinea pigs? ...........

userHarveyHeaven
Posted: 27 January 2019 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:32 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 9:08 PM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-26 7:12 PM

What are the Brexiters saying about this? I guess they will blame the EU not the UK despite it being the UK who pulled out of the EU and not the other way round.

My prediction is that no Brexiter will respond.....or if the do they will refuse to admit it was Brexit....mind you I'm not sure who or what else they CAN blame in this instance.........Project Fear is not an acceptable answer since it is just a sound bite.

Typically pretty much ignoring it. Blue passports and 'borders' are more important to them. Comments on this tweet are interesting.

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1088844259934064640

Also last year trialing of a new heart drug was abandoned as a result of Brexit. Brexiters will deny this also.

A Scottish government spokesman said "this is the first clinical study we are aware of to be suspended in Scotland as a result of Brexit - and a very concerning sign of what could happen".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45727317


So basically your saying drug companies wont be using Brits as guinea pigs? ...........



When proved WRONG...your only recourse ....make a joke or offer a sound bite...dohhhh!!!
userTracker
Posted: 27 January 2019 10:18 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Why would anyone be surprised that an EU entity would need to move to an EU country to retain it's very questionable EU status, although it dies of course give remoaners something else to moan about in their never ending quest to attack Brexit in any and every way they can find.

Curiosity aroused to see jusy how many UK jobs would be lost, after a brief web trawl I found this little snippet which puts it more into perspective

"Under current rules, U.K. employees of the agencies would have their contracts terminated because EU staff must be a national of a member country unless the agency employing them makes a specific exception. Meanwhile, employees from the countries remaining in the EU who do not wish to relocate will have to resign, meaning that they forfeit generous benefits.
"The staff representatives will follow closely all the consequences of Brexit for staff ... and we will endeavor to mitigate the negative consequences," said Félix Géradon, deputy secretary-general of Union Syndicale Bruxelles, the largest EU staff union.
According to the 2017 EBA expenditure report, 134 of the agency's staff are temporary, 33 are on full-time contracts and 17 are seconded national experts. Just 12 of the staff are U.K. citizens according to the EBA annual report. The EMA’s annual report says in 2016 they had 587 temporary staff, and 143 contract staff. It employs around 60 U.K. nationals.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-27 9:57 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:32 AM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-26 9:08 PM

HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-26 7:12 PM

What are the Brexiters saying about this? I guess they will blame the EU not the UK despite it being the UK who pulled out of the EU and not the other way round.

My prediction is that no Brexiter will respond.....or if the do they will refuse to admit it was Brexit....mind you I'm not sure who or what else they CAN blame in this instance.........Project Fear is not an acceptable answer since it is just a sound bite.

Typically pretty much ignoring it. Blue passports and 'borders' are more important to them. Comments on this tweet are interesting.

https://twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1088844259934064640

Also last year trialing of a new heart drug was abandoned as a result of Brexit. Brexiters will deny this also.

A Scottish government spokesman said "this is the first clinical study we are aware of to be suspended in Scotland as a result of Brexit - and a very concerning sign of what could happen".

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45727317


So basically your saying drug companies wont be using Brits as guinea pigs? ...........



When proved WRONG...your only recourse ....make a joke or offer a sound bite...dohhhh!!!


I'm proved wrong??? ............

You are the one spreading fake news about 900 job loses ......Dohhh!!! .........



userBarryd999
Posted: 27 January 2019 12:34 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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You can argue about the number of job losses if you like Dave but you should also see the bigger picture. Its yet another agency we are no longer able to influence or take part in. Britain as a result of being in the EMA had a major influence in medicine research, development and standards. Its just another one going on your Brexit bonfire from banking to healthcare. We will be locked out of all of these agencies now on our race to the bottom.

Never mind, waiting in the wings is you beloved President Trump who will I am sure offer us a deal (on his terms) on everything from Pharmaceuticals to dodgy chicken. We will just have to take his word for it that they are all ok and safe though I guess. Start saving for your medical insurance plan now for when the final nail in the coffin is when your new far right ToryKippers flog him our NHS.

Edited by Barryd999 2019-01-27 12:35 PM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 27 January 2019 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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If 900 jobs are lost, that is 900 salaries that have gone. Some will, presumably, get other jobs in UK. It isn't relevant whether the others re-locate outside the UK, or sign on the dole. Their spending will disappear. That will knock on to other businesses. That is how economies work. That is why the loss of these, and other jobs, matters. They record a gradual diminution of the UK economy, and many of the losses have Brexit written right through the middle. Bear I mind that the form of Brexit has not yet been determined, and that we are still in the EU. These are just the foothills.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 12:52 PM

If 900 jobs are lost, that is 900 salaries that have gone. Some will, presumably, get other jobs in UK. It isn't relevant whether the others re-locate outside the UK, or sign on the dole. Their spending will disappear. That will knock on to other businesses. That is how economies work. That is why the loss of these, and other jobs, matters. They record a gradual diminution of the UK economy, and many of the losses have Brexit written right through the middle. Bear I mind that the form of Brexit has not yet been determined, and that we are still in the EU. These are just the foothills.


But 900 jobs haven't been lost ........They have been relocated ........

Whether the 60 Brits have decided to relocate no one knows, but apparently 25% (200ish) of their staff are thinking of not relocating, so I'm assuming they have found other work here in our buoyant jobs market .......

Being a positive Brexiteer I see it as the UK saving millions on a EU quango, which will carry on doing its job but paid for by someone else .......





Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-27 1:02 PM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 27 January 2019 4:50 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 1:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 12:52 PM
If 900 jobs are lost, that is 900 salaries that have gone. Some will, presumably, get other jobs in UK. It isn't relevant whether the others re-locate outside the UK, or sign on the dole. Their spending will disappear. That will knock on to other businesses. That is how economies work. That is why the loss of these, and other jobs, matters. They record a gradual diminution of the UK economy, and many of the losses have Brexit written right through the middle. Bear I mind that the form of Brexit has not yet been determined, and that we are still in the EU. These are just the foothills.

But 900 jobs haven't been lost ........They have been relocated ........
Whether the 60 Brits have decided to relocate no one knows, but apparently 25% (200ish) of their staff are thinking of not relocating, so I'm assuming they have found other work here in our buoyant jobs market .......
Being a positive Brexiteer I see it as the UK saving millions on a EU quango, which will carry on doing its job but paid for by someone else .......

Relocated Dave, yes - to the Netherlands. So, the staff and their spending goes to benefit the Dutch economy and is lost to the UK economy. As I said some will probably be made redundant, some (I hope all) will get other jobs, but those other jobs would have been filled eventually in any case. So, when organisations move staff abroad (whether the actual personnel or just the posts, the UK economy shrinks a bit as a consequence. You can bury your head in the sand as deep as you like, but that is the simple, arithmetic, truth.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 4:50 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 1:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 12:52 PM
If 900 jobs are lost, that is 900 salaries that have gone. Some will, presumably, get other jobs in UK. It isn't relevant whether the others re-locate outside the UK, or sign on the dole. Their spending will disappear. That will knock on to other businesses. That is how economies work. That is why the loss of these, and other jobs, matters. They record a gradual diminution of the UK economy, and many of the losses have Brexit written right through the middle. Bear I mind that the form of Brexit has not yet been determined, and that we are still in the EU. These are just the foothills.

But 900 jobs haven't been lost ........They have been relocated ........
Whether the 60 Brits have decided to relocate no one knows, but apparently 25% (200ish) of their staff are thinking of not relocating, so I'm assuming they have found other work here in our buoyant jobs market .......
Being a positive Brexiteer I see it as the UK saving millions on a EU quango, which will carry on doing its job but paid for by someone else .......

Relocated Dave, yes - to the Netherlands. So, the staff and their spending goes to benefit the Dutch economy and is lost to the UK economy. As I said some will probably be made redundant, some (I hope all) will get other jobs, but those other jobs would have been filled eventually in any case. So, when organisations move staff abroad (whether the actual personnel or just the posts, the UK economy shrinks a bit as a consequence. You can bury your head in the sand as deep as you like, but that is the simple, arithmetic, truth.


Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........

BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........

I dunno where you bury your head Brian?.........But it obviously doesn't smell of roses like where I bury mine ........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 27 January 2019 5:49 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.
userTracker
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:08 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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It's an ill wind that blows nobody any good so at least the Dutch will have more tax income to help pay their larger share of the ever increasing EU wish list, sorry I mean budget!
user747
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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So I can take it that the Remainers are happy with the part of the statement that reads:


"Under current rules, U.K. employees of the agencies would have their contracts terminated because EU staff must be a national of a member country unless the agency employing them makes a specific exception.

To me, that sounds a bit "Third Reich" and shows how inward looking and divisive the EU has become. It also reflects their opinion of a Brexit.

Actually, I voted Leave but I am coming round to a new opinion. It may be better to forget Brexit, get our heads down and be good little Europeans and watch the EU slowly disintegrate around us. We could have a bit of fun by using the veto now and again.
userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:24 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.

As you said the other day it's like dealing with the seriously demented! But no fears......according to the PelmetPlonker there's loads of vacancies.......in Weymouth! Probably burger flippers, supermarket shelf stackers and B&B cleaners.
userTracker
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:29 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 6:24 PM
loads of vacancies.......in Weymouth! Probably burger flippers, supermarket shelf stackers and B&B cleaners.


So there's hope for you yet then!
userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:33 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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747 - 2019-01-27 6:19 PM

So I can take it that the Remainers are happy with the part of the statement that reads:


"Under current rules, U.K. employees of the agencies would have their contracts terminated because EU staff must be a national of a member country unless the agency employing them makes a specific exception.

To me, that sounds a bit "Third Reich" and shows how inward looking and divisive the EU has become. It also reflects their opinion of a Brexit.

Actually, I voted Leave but I am coming round to a new opinion. It may be better to forget Brexit, get our heads down and be good little Europeans and watch the EU slowly disintegrate around us. We could have a bit of fun by using the veto now and again.

It would help if you linked to the statement you are reading. I've looked at both the EU paper and EMA updates and there is nothing indicating that. I think you have something confused as to 'termination' etc.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:34 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.


Your missing the point that the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK .........

So its a win win.......The 27 other EU countries get to fund the EMA........and we get to buy the drugs they've accepted .........

As we've already said we'll comply with EU rules .......

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/mhra-releases-response-to-consultation-on-eu-exit-no-deal-legislative-proposals

userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:42 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.


They work in London Brian ........

So their majority foreign staff have the choice of relocating to cheaper Amsterdam with a all expenses payed package or staying in very expensive London ........

Redundancy is obviously not an issue .........

Unless or benefit system has really gone berserk ? .............

user747
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:43 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 6:33 PM

747 - 2019-01-27 6:19 PM

So I can take it that the Remainers are happy with the part of the statement that reads:


"Under current rules, U.K. employees of the agencies would have their contracts terminated because EU staff must be a national of a member country unless the agency employing them makes a specific exception.

To me, that sounds a bit "Third Reich" and shows how inward looking and divisive the EU has become. It also reflects their opinion of a Brexit.

Actually, I voted Leave but I am coming round to a new opinion. It may be better to forget Brexit, get our heads down and be good little Europeans and watch the EU slowly disintegrate around us. We could have a bit of fun by using the veto now and again.

It would help if you linked to the statement you are reading. I've looked at both the EU paper and EMA updates and there is nothing indicating that. I think you have something confused as to 'termination' etc.


Post 8 on this page.

Perhaps it was your short attention span that led you to inadvertently vote Remain? It's probably an age thing.
user747
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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It sounds like the MHRA will need to take on extra Staff then?

That's good news for British workers.
userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:47 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:34 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.


Your missing the point that the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK .........

Citation, citation, citation........stop making presumptive wild guesses.
userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:53 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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747 - 2019-01-27 6:43 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 6:33 PM

747 - 2019-01-27 6:19 PM

So I can take it that the Remainers are happy with the part of the statement that reads:


"Under current rules, U.K. employees of the agencies would have their contracts terminated because EU staff must be a national of a member country unless the agency employing them makes a specific exception.

To me, that sounds a bit "Third Reich" and shows how inward looking and divisive the EU has become. It also reflects their opinion of a Brexit.

Actually, I voted Leave but I am coming round to a new opinion. It may be better to forget Brexit, get our heads down and be good little Europeans and watch the EU slowly disintegrate around us. We could have a bit of fun by using the veto now and again.

It would help if you linked to the statement you are reading. I've looked at both the EU paper and EMA updates and there is nothing indicating that. I think you have something confused as to 'termination' etc.


Post 8 on this page.

Without citation it's utterly meaningless. There's no indication to the source even.

Now.....here are statements concerning the issue from both EU and the EMA.....both linked from original source.

EMA; https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-relocation-updates

EU; https://www.ema.europa.eu/documents/other/notice-marketing-authorisation-holders-centrally-authorised-medicinal-products-human-veterinary-use_en.pdf

Edited by Bulletguy 2019-01-27 6:53 PM
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 6:56 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 6:47 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:34 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.


Your missing the point that the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK .........

Citation, citation, citation........stop making presumptive wild guesses.


https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

.........

userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 7:14 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


The special one

Posts: 10496
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pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:56 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 6:47 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:34 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.


Your missing the point that the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK .........

Citation, citation, citation........stop making presumptive wild guesses.


https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

.........

Still not showing where your claim of "the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK" is. You're making presumptive guesses based on conjecture again as you always do.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 7:52 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Walks with the gods

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Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 7:14 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:56 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 6:47 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:34 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.


Your missing the point that the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK .........

Citation, citation, citation........stop making presumptive wild guesses.


https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

.........

Still not showing where your claim of "the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK" is. You're making presumptive guesses based on conjecture again as you always do.


Dohh!.........We give them billions......and they spend it ........and in the case of the EMA 60 Brits benefited, no doubt they're all die hard Remoaners like our Barry ........

Perhaps the EU should of spent more on convincing the rest of us ........



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-27 7:55 PM
userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


The special one

Posts: 10496
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Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:52 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 7:14 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:56 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 6:47 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:34 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.


Your missing the point that the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK .........

Citation, citation, citation........stop making presumptive wild guesses.


https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

.........

Still not showing where your claim of "the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK" is. You're making presumptive guesses based on conjecture again as you always do.


Dohh!.........We give them billions......and they spend it ........and in the case of the EMA 60 Brits benefited, no doubt they're all die hard Remoaners like our Barry ........

So "them" being the EU? But you've still failed to show how many "millions" you claimed "comes from UK to fund the EMA", and hoped posting up a link of no relevance to the EMA would somehow justify your claim. You're just surmising and working off conjecture aren't you? It's so vague and

I'll give you an example of how batsh1t crazy what you wrote is.

"Brexit is costing UK economy billions every second"

That's called surmising, conjecture, and disinformation. It's easy to see how and why you fell for all the wackadoodle Brexit bullcrap.
userpelmetman
Posted: 27 January 2019 9:25 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 27041
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 8:53 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:52 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 7:14 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:56 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 6:47 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:34 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.


Your missing the point that the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK .........

Citation, citation, citation........stop making presumptive wild guesses.


https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

.........

Still not showing where your claim of "the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK" is. You're making presumptive guesses based on conjecture again as you always do.


Dohh!.........We give them billions......and they spend it ........and in the case of the EMA 60 Brits benefited, no doubt they're all die hard Remoaners like our Barry ........

So "them" being the EU? But you've still failed to show how many "millions" you claimed "comes from UK to fund the EMA", and hoped posting up a link of no relevance to the EMA would somehow justify your claim. You're just surmising and working off conjecture aren't you? It's so vague and

I'll give you an example of how batsh1t crazy what you wrote is.

"Brexit is costing UK economy billions every second"

That's called surmising, conjecture, and disinformation. It's easy to see how and why you fell for all the wackadoodle Brexit bullcrap.


So I'm surmising that we're a net provider of billions to the EU? .........

BTW a EU paper trail means bugger all seeing as they're signed off by their own auditors ........



userBulletguy
Posted: 27 January 2019 10:03 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


The special one

Posts: 10496
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Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


pelmetman - 2019-01-27 9:25 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 8:53 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 7:52 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 7:14 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:56 PM

Bulletguy - 2019-01-27 6:47 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 6:34 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 5:49 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM........................Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........……………... ........

"Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate." Redundancy is redundancy whatever the cause.

But, you're missing the main point Dave. It is the economic loss that counts, not the loss in tax. Even if the whole crew relocates, it is the fact that those 900 people presently live, and so spend their incomes, in the UK that counts. If the jobs go to the Netherlands, the incomes go with them, so the benefit from those jobs to the UK economy is lost.


Your missing the point that the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK .........

Citation, citation, citation........stop making presumptive wild guesses.


https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

.........

Still not showing where your claim of "the millions used to fund the EMA comes from the UK" is. You're making presumptive guesses based on conjecture again as you always do.


Dohh!.........We give them billions......and they spend it ........and in the case of the EMA 60 Brits benefited, no doubt they're all die hard Remoaners like our Barry ........

So "them" being the EU? But you've still failed to show how many "millions" you claimed "comes from UK to fund the EMA", and hoped posting up a link of no relevance to the EMA would somehow justify your claim. You're just surmising and working off conjecture aren't you? It's so vague and

I'll give you an example of how batsh1t crazy what you wrote is.

"Brexit is costing UK economy billions every second"

That's called surmising, conjecture, and disinformation. It's easy to see how and why you fell for all the wackadoodle Brexit bullcrap.


So I'm surmising that we're a net provider of billions to the EU? .........

BTW a EU paper trail means bugger all seeing as they're signed off by their own auditors .......

OK this confirms you're seriously demented........men in white coats need to collect you asap.
userHarveyHeaven
Posted: 28 January 2019 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Pops in from time to time

Posts: 123
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Location: Staffordshire - Adria Coral Supreme680ST


pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 4:50 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 1:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 12:52 PM
If 900 jobs are lost, that is 900 salaries that have gone. Some will, presumably, get other jobs in UK. It isn't relevant whether the others re-locate outside the UK, or sign on the dole. Their spending will disappear. That will knock on to other businesses. That is how economies work. That is why the loss of these, and other jobs, matters. They record a gradual diminution of the UK economy, and many of the losses have Brexit written right through the middle. Bear I mind that the form of Brexit has not yet been determined, and that we are still in the EU. These are just the foothills.

But 900 jobs haven't been lost ........They have been relocated ........
Whether the 60 Brits have decided to relocate no one knows, but apparently 25% (200ish) of their staff are thinking of not relocating, so I'm assuming they have found other work here in our buoyant jobs market .......
Being a positive Brexiteer I see it as the UK saving millions on a EU quango, which will carry on doing its job but paid for by someone else .......

Relocated Dave, yes - to the Netherlands. So, the staff and their spending goes to benefit the Dutch economy and is lost to the UK economy. As I said some will probably be made redundant, some (I hope all) will get other jobs, but those other jobs would have been filled eventually in any case. So, when organisations move staff abroad (whether the actual personnel or just the posts, the UK economy shrinks a bit as a consequence. You can bury your head in the sand as deep as you like, but that is the simple, arithmetic, truth.


Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........

BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........

I dunno where you bury your head Brian?.........But it obviously doesn't smell of roses like where I bury mine ........



This is a perfect examply of cognitive dissonance
userpelmetman
Posted: 28 January 2019 9:44 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 27041
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-28 8:00 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM

Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 4:50 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-27 1:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 12:52 PM
If 900 jobs are lost, that is 900 salaries that have gone. Some will, presumably, get other jobs in UK. It isn't relevant whether the others re-locate outside the UK, or sign on the dole. Their spending will disappear. That will knock on to other businesses. That is how economies work. That is why the loss of these, and other jobs, matters. They record a gradual diminution of the UK economy, and many of the losses have Brexit written right through the middle. Bear I mind that the form of Brexit has not yet been determined, and that we are still in the EU. These are just the foothills.

But 900 jobs haven't been lost ........They have been relocated ........
Whether the 60 Brits have decided to relocate no one knows, but apparently 25% (200ish) of their staff are thinking of not relocating, so I'm assuming they have found other work here in our buoyant jobs market .......
Being a positive Brexiteer I see it as the UK saving millions on a EU quango, which will carry on doing its job but paid for by someone else .......

Relocated Dave, yes - to the Netherlands. So, the staff and their spending goes to benefit the Dutch economy and is lost to the UK economy. As I said some will probably be made redundant, some (I hope all) will get other jobs, but those other jobs would have been filled eventually in any case. So, when organisations move staff abroad (whether the actual personnel or just the posts, the UK economy shrinks a bit as a consequence. You can bury your head in the sand as deep as you like, but that is the simple, arithmetic, truth.


Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........

BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........

I dunno where you bury your head Brian?.........But it obviously doesn't smell of roses like where I bury mine ........



This is a perfect examply of cognitive dissonance


Seems to me you have a cognitive delusional disorder........You see job losses where there are none ......

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 28 January 2019 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-01-28 9:44 AM
HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-28 8:00 AM
pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 4:50 PM
pelmetman - 2019-01-27 1:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 12:52 PM
If 900 jobs are lost, that is 900 salaries that have gone. Some will, presumably, get other jobs in UK. It isn't relevant whether the others re-locate outside the UK, or sign on the dole. Their spending will disappear. That will knock on to other businesses. That is how economies work. That is why the loss of these, and other jobs, matters. They record a gradual diminution of the UK economy, and many of the losses have Brexit written right through the middle. Bear I mind that the form of Brexit has not yet been determined, and that we are still in the EU. These are just the foothills.

But 900 jobs haven't been lost ........They have been relocated ........
Whether the 60 Brits have decided to relocate no one knows, but apparently 25% (200ish) of their staff are thinking of not relocating, so I'm assuming they have found other work here in our buoyant jobs market .......
Being a positive Brexiteer I see it as the UK saving millions on a EU quango, which will carry on doing its job but paid for by someone else .......

Relocated Dave, yes - to the Netherlands. So, the staff and their spending goes to benefit the Dutch economy and is lost to the UK economy. As I said some will probably be made redundant, some (I hope all) will get other jobs, but those other jobs would have been filled eventually in any case. So, when organisations move staff abroad (whether the actual personnel or just the posts, the UK economy shrinks a bit as a consequence. You can bury your head in the sand as deep as you like, but that is the simple, arithmetic, truth.

Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........
I dunno where you bury your head Brian?.........But it obviously doesn't smell of roses like where I bury mine ........

This is a perfect examply of cognitive dissonance

Seems to me you have a cognitive delusional disorder........You see job losses where there are none ......

Not cognitive dissonance Harvey, Brexomyopia, leading to a severe attack of geographical disfunctionality! Dave thinks that the Netherlands is part of the UK, so the jobs have remained in the UK!
userpelmetman
Posted: 28 January 2019 11:40 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 27041
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Brian Kirby - 2019-01-28 11:16 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-28 9:44 AM
HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-28 8:00 AM
pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 4:50 PM
pelmetman - 2019-01-27 1:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 12:52 PM
If 900 jobs are lost, that is 900 salaries that have gone. Some will, presumably, get other jobs in UK. It isn't relevant whether the others re-locate outside the UK, or sign on the dole. Their spending will disappear. That will knock on to other businesses. That is how economies work. That is why the loss of these, and other jobs, matters. They record a gradual diminution of the UK economy, and many of the losses have Brexit written right through the middle. Bear I mind that the form of Brexit has not yet been determined, and that we are still in the EU. These are just the foothills.

But 900 jobs haven't been lost ........They have been relocated ........
Whether the 60 Brits have decided to relocate no one knows, but apparently 25% (200ish) of their staff are thinking of not relocating, so I'm assuming they have found other work here in our buoyant jobs market .......
Being a positive Brexiteer I see it as the UK saving millions on a EU quango, which will carry on doing its job but paid for by someone else .......

Relocated Dave, yes - to the Netherlands. So, the staff and their spending goes to benefit the Dutch economy and is lost to the UK economy. As I said some will probably be made redundant, some (I hope all) will get other jobs, but those other jobs would have been filled eventually in any case. So, when organisations move staff abroad (whether the actual personnel or just the posts, the UK economy shrinks a bit as a consequence. You can bury your head in the sand as deep as you like, but that is the simple, arithmetic, truth.

Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........
I dunno where you bury your head Brian?.........But it obviously doesn't smell of roses like where I bury mine ........

This is a perfect examply of cognitive dissonance

Seems to me you have a cognitive delusional disorder........You see job losses where there are none ......

Not cognitive dissonance Harvey, Brexomyopia, leading to a severe attack of geographical disfunctionality! Dave thinks that the Netherlands is part of the UK, so the jobs have remained in the UK!


The point is those jobs still exist, the only difference is it wont be us paying their wages .........

userBulletguy
Posted: 28 January 2019 1:24 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


The special one

Posts: 10496
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Location: Cheshire. Ford Transit Autosleeper Duetto


Brian Kirby - 2019-01-28 11:16 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-28 9:44 AM
HarveyHeaven - 2019-01-28 8:00 AM
pelmetman - 2019-01-27 5:02 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 4:50 PM
pelmetman - 2019-01-27 1:00 PM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-27 12:52 PM
If 900 jobs are lost, that is 900 salaries that have gone. Some will, presumably, get other jobs in UK. It isn't relevant whether the others re-locate outside the UK, or sign on the dole. Their spending will disappear. That will knock on to other businesses. That is how economies work. That is why the loss of these, and other jobs, matters. They record a gradual diminution of the UK economy, and many of the losses have Brexit written right through the middle. Bear I mind that the form of Brexit has not yet been determined, and that we are still in the EU. These are just the foothills.

But 900 jobs haven't been lost ........They have been relocated ........
Whether the 60 Brits have decided to relocate no one knows, but apparently 25% (200ish) of their staff are thinking of not relocating, so I'm assuming they have found other work here in our buoyant jobs market .......
Being a positive Brexiteer I see it as the UK saving millions on a EU quango, which will carry on doing its job but paid for by someone else .......

Relocated Dave, yes - to the Netherlands. So, the staff and their spending goes to benefit the Dutch economy and is lost to the UK economy. As I said some will probably be made redundant, some (I hope all) will get other jobs, but those other jobs would have been filled eventually in any case. So, when organisations move staff abroad (whether the actual personnel or just the posts, the UK economy shrinks a bit as a consequence. You can bury your head in the sand as deep as you like, but that is the simple, arithmetic, truth.

Nope no ones being made redundant unless they refuse to relocate ..........and I suspect the only ones turning down a generous EU relocation package, will be those who have been offered a even more generous headhunting package .........
BTW .....The few quid in employee tax we may have lost, will be far out weighed by the millions we'll save from not funding another EU quango ........
I dunno where you bury your head Brian?.........But it obviously doesn't smell of roses like where I bury mine ........

This is a perfect examply of cognitive dissonance

Seems to me you have a cognitive delusional disorder........You see job losses where there are none ......

Not cognitive dissonance Harvey, Brexomyopia, leading to a severe attack of geographical disfunctionality! Dave thinks that the Netherlands is part of the UK, so the jobs have remained in the UK!

No doubt believes Lincolnshires Fens are an extension of the Dutch canals which belong to UK.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 28 January 2019 4:59 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-01-28 11:40 AM...…………………..The point is those jobs still exist, the only difference is it wont be us paying their wages B-) .........

But we don't, do we? We pay part, not all. In fact we pay about 13.5% of the total EU budget, so about the same percentage of those incomes. The other 27 pay the remaining 86.5%, but 100% gets paid into the UK economy while the EMA is UK based. When the jobs get relocated to the Netherlands, we shall save our 13.5%, but we lose 100% of the EMA staff spending.

Call me old fashioned, but a 13.5% gain in exchange for a 100% loss lacks appeal to me, but you seem to think it's the deal of the decade! If this is Brexit maths, we truly are doomed! :-D

Edited by Brian Kirby 2019-01-28 4:59 PM
userTracker
Posted: 28 January 2019 7:42 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


50002000100050010010025
Location: Vanless in Evesham.


Brian Kirby - 2019-01-28 4:59 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-28 11:40 AM...…………………..The point is those jobs still exist, the only difference is it wont be us paying their wages .........

But we don't, do we? We pay part, not all. In fact we pay about 13.5% of the total EU budget, so about the same percentage of those incomes. The other 27 pay the remaining 86.5%, but 100% gets paid into the UK economy while the EMA is UK based. When the jobs get relocated to the Netherlands, we shall save our 13.5%, but we lose 100% of the EMA staff spending.

Call me old fashioned, but a 13.5% gain in exchange for a 100% loss lacks appeal to me, but you seem to think it's the deal of the decade! If this is Brexit maths, we truly are doomed!


Er, not quite Brian methinks. We get repaid 100% of the EMA wage bill having spent most of of it on wages for the EMA foreign nationals so given the relatively small UK contingent in the EMA I doubt the difference is much at the end of the financial juggling - except that we may have to pay 12 people unemployment benefits, but not for long I suggest as they are more than likely well qualified and motivated people quite capable of securing their own futures.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 January 2019 12:38 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Sorry Ricardo, non capische!

If the EMA employs 900 people in London, and those 900 jobs are transferred to Netherlands, the spending power of those 900 people goes to the Netherlands with the jobs, does it not?

As I understand the move it is because, if UK Brexits, it will no longer contribute to, or benefit from the EMA. That looks to me like the straight loss of 900 jobs to the UK economy with no compensating benefit.

The UK presently contributes to the EU budget to the tune of around 13.5% so, however that contribution is spent (in this case by returning to the UK the full cost of the EMA salaries), our total assumed contribution to the EMA salaries should be (broadly) the same 13.5%, should it not?

So our gain in leaving the EU (assuming our post Brexit contribution to the EU budget falls to zero, which seems far from certain), in the case of the EMA, is only the 13.5% that is our contribution, but we lose the (presumed) 100% of EMA staff salaries costs, which the staff spend in the UK.

(We shall also lose the benefit of the EMA, so will have to set up our own to medicines agency, for which we shall have to pay 100% of its cost)

I can't see any gain. What am I missing?
user747
Posted: 29 January 2019 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Forum master

Posts: 2012
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Staff Salary costs Brian?

The vast majority are non British. Their salaries will not be spent in Britain. Their accommodation will be subsidised or paid for by the Company (via EU money). When I worked overseas my salary was sent home apart from incidental expenses. I also doubt that these well educated Europeans would have been on excellent salaries and expenses (as per the EU employee norm).

As you rightly pointed out, their will be an expansion of our own Agency which will create jobs to British Citizens who will spend their salaries in Britain.
userTracker
Posted: 29 January 2019 1:09 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Location: Vanless in Evesham.


I think perchance Brian you are choosing to interpret the financial aspect to suit your own remain views?

I doubt the spending power of the jobs that go back to the EU will make a huge difference to the UK economy

Do we not already have our own medicines agency called NICE - perhaps the few people that remain will go work for NICE but do we really need duplication of that agency when maybe tweaking of it's role a little will work very well?

I do not see that the UK contribution to the overall EU budget is relevant in this context, but seeing as you mentioned it, perhaps the UK could spend that 13.5% better on ourselves rather than 'other' Europeans? In any case 13.5% is a lot more than 1/27th of the budget and does not seem very good vfm to me?

Whether there is a gain or loss from leaving the EU remains to be seen. I suspect a loss at first but a huge gain as the UK adjusts to the latest world order
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 January 2019 5:06 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


See here - accepting that the vote has since taken place and the EMA goes to Amsterdam while the EBA goes to paris. http://tinyurl.com/y6v2s9e7

It is plainly not the case that these organisations are unpopular to host, especially the EMA, and that both take with them considerable additional business for, among others, the local hotel and catering industry.

It is also plain that the types of staff employed by both agencies do not fit the profile imagined by 747. That are largely professionally qualified people with families, and unlikely to be sending their foreign earnings back to impoverished families at home. These are highly skilled and qualified people following careers. There will inevitably be less-qualified support staff, but it seems to me improbable they would have been recruited from around the EU, and more likely they would mainly be locally recruited and less likely to be offered, or to take up, relocation.

Will their combined loss result in a shock to the UK economy? Of course not, that would be a ridiculous claim. But, each will impact its local economy to some extent, so I don't think this complacent, "the sky won't fall in", response is wise or realistic.

These Brexit related losses are going on around the UK, in various areas of industry and commerce, and each takes its toll. Little by little, each removes some of what has been hard won by those directly and indirectly involved. We are not going to replace the jobs lost through the collapse of heavy industry by meting out the same fate to other sectors in some perversion of revenge: quite the reverse. Neither are we going to repair our infrastructure, health, education, or welfare systems by inflicting needless damage on our own economy.

I did not hunt down this news on some minor, hole in a wall, website, or anywhere else, in support of remain supporting news. Indeed, I did not hunt it out at all, it came to me. It has been widely reported (and lamented) in the national media. I would add that I have not seen any reports of these departures expressing the sentiment that we are better off without them.

So no, I don't think I am seeing at Brexit through my conviction that Brexit will prove a costly historic mistake. I think I am merely seeing the evidence of that mistake gradually accumulate before my eyes, and am astounded both that this evidence is being so casually dismissed by those in favour of Brexit, and that they do not do their own research and respond with counter-facts, rather than responding with uncorroborated personal opinion.
user747
Posted: 29 January 2019 5:09 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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You do exasperate me at times Brian but I will make no direct comment back to you. I will let whoever reads the posts make up their own minds.
userTracker
Posted: 29 January 2019 5:25 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Location: Vanless in Evesham.


Brian Kirby - 2019-01-29 5:06 PM
So no, I don't think I am seeing at Brexit through my conviction that Brexit will prove a costly historic mistake. I think I am merely seeing the evidence of that mistake gradually accumulate before my eyes, and am astounded both that this evidence is being so casually dismissed by those in favour of Brexit, and that they do not do their own research and respond with counter-facts, rather than responding with uncorroborated personal opinion.


I don't recall anyone saying we would be better off without them or that they are unpopular to host, but to state the obvious in that their return to the EU will make little difference to the UK economy in the grand scheme of things is a very different perspective.
There may be some people that casually dismiss the forecasts of the prophets of doom and gloom and web rakers, and from that if you wish to interpret that some of us are not sufficiently motivated to web trawl for snippets about something over which we have no control then by all means throw that into the mix, meanwhile I see no reason to change anything said previously or my own point of view, just as I do not expect you to change yours.
I see a lot of uncorroberated personal opinion in what you post too Brian whichn itself is fair enough, but not when you critcise others for doing the same.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 January 2019 5:48 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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747 - 2019-01-29 5:09 PM

You do exasperate me at times Brian but I will make no direct comment back to you. I will let whoever reads the posts make up their own minds.

Thank you 747: the feeling is mutual, in the nicest possible way, of course.
userBarryd999
Posted: 29 January 2019 6:03 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Some of you fail to realise it seems how important the EMA was. Forget about the jobs or the costs. Whats important is you have just chucked away a valuable regulatory standards agency that John Major fought hard for the UK to secure twenty years ago. Part of its job was to ensure that medicines across the EU are safe, effective and of high quality. Whos is going to do that after your Brexit Bonfire of regulations in the UK. Trump?

The UK pharmaceutical industry is worth about £13 billion a year and a quarter of the world’s top prescription medicines were discovered and developed in the UK under the regulatory body of the EMA. We wont be part of that now.

Instead (and I have this first hand from a meeting with my MP the other day after she talked with their CEO) companies like Glaxo (just up the road from me) are spending vast amounts of money stockpiling and on storage of drugs rather than research and development, something we were world leaders in.

Can you not start to see the domino effect Brexit is already causing in our race for a Pound Land UK?

Edited by Barryd999 2019-01-29 6:04 PM
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 29 January 2019 6:16 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


Tracker - 2019-01-29 5:25 PM..................I see a lot of uncorroberated personal opinion in what you post too Brian whichn itself is fair enough, but not when you critcise others for doing the same.

What I post as fact Richard, unless qualified as my own opinion, I have researched before I write it. I may not post links to all the sources, or any, but I do look out reasonably reliable sources before writing.

I posted the Politico link in preference to the rather more hysterical Guardian one, to counter the derision that would be heaped on anything in the Guardian by the usual one-eyed right wing suspects, who only believe the right wing press.

It is the airy dismissal of accumulating fact that I just cannot understand. Just, "it can't be so because I want Brexit".

Those promoting Brexit seem to forget that we all have skin in this game, and that some of us are unimpressed by these casual dismissals on the part of people who demonstrate no grasp of fact (no names - no pack-drill ) - even when it is carefully laid out for them with links that give a full explanation.

If Brexit goes through, especially if there is no deal and we hit the default Article 50 buffers, I think (opinion see! ) an awful lot of people are going to get badly hurt, and we are all (except the super-rich) going to feel some pain. 747 speaks of his exasperation. I understand his feeling.
userpelmetman
Posted: 29 January 2019 10:27 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 6:03 PM

Some of you fail to realise it seems how important the EMA was. Forget about the jobs or the costs. Whats important is you have just chucked away a valuable regulatory standards agency that John Major fought hard for the UK to secure twenty years ago. Part of its job was to ensure that medicines across the EU are safe, effective and of high quality. Whos is going to do that after your Brexit Bonfire of regulations in the UK.


The EMA ...........We just wont be paying for their work .........

Unless you think the EU can ban the drug companies from selling us the drugs they've passed ? .......



Edited by pelmetman 2019-01-29 10:28 PM
userBarryd999
Posted: 29 January 2019 10:31 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Lord of the posts

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pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:27 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 6:03 PM

Some of you fail to realise it seems how important the EMA was. Forget about the jobs or the costs. Whats important is you have just chucked away a valuable regulatory standards agency that John Major fought hard for the UK to secure twenty years ago. Part of its job was to ensure that medicines across the EU are safe, effective and of high quality. Whos is going to do that after your Brexit Bonfire of regulations in the UK.


The EMA ...........We just wont be paying for their work .........

Unless you think the EU can ban the drug companies from selling us the drugs they've passed ? .......



Did you not read what I said about how valuable and massive our contribution to world medicine has been? What yard stick will we be judged by now?
userpelmetman
Posted: 29 January 2019 10:43 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Walks with the gods

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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 10:31 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:27 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 6:03 PM

Some of you fail to realise it seems how important the EMA was. Forget about the jobs or the costs. Whats important is you have just chucked away a valuable regulatory standards agency that John Major fought hard for the UK to secure twenty years ago. Part of its job was to ensure that medicines across the EU are safe, effective and of high quality. Whos is going to do that after your Brexit Bonfire of regulations in the UK.


The EMA ...........We just wont be paying for their work .........

Unless you think the EU can ban the drug companies from selling us the drugs they've passed ? .......



Did you not read what I said about how valuable and massive our contribution to world medicine has been? What yard stick will we be judged by now?


It's all about ego with you Remoaners ..........

The EMA doesn't invent the drugs, they're just the gate keepers ...........

userBarryd999
Posted: 30 January 2019 2:21 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Lord of the posts

Posts: 5767
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pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:43 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 10:31 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:27 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 6:03 PM

Some of you fail to realise it seems how important the EMA was. Forget about the jobs or the costs. Whats important is you have just chucked away a valuable regulatory standards agency that John Major fought hard for the UK to secure twenty years ago. Part of its job was to ensure that medicines across the EU are safe, effective and of high quality. Whos is going to do that after your Brexit Bonfire of regulations in the UK.


The EMA ...........We just wont be paying for their work .........

Unless you think the EU can ban the drug companies from selling us the drugs they've passed ? .......



Did you not read what I said about how valuable and massive our contribution to world medicine has been? What yard stick will we be judged by now?


It's all about ego with you Remoaners ..........

The EMA doesn't invent the drugs, they're just the gate keepers ...........



Jeez! Its all about standards and regulations that are respected throughout Europe and the world. Whilst the UK hosted the EMA our respected medicines industry, research and development made a massive impact around the globe. If we slip outside of those regulatory bodies and standards as I said what yard stick will we be judged by post Brexit as a third country on our own? Your no deal wet dream will take us out of all that on a race to the bottom as regards the economy and regulations on stuff like medicine.
userpelmetman
Posted: 30 January 2019 9:25 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 27041
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Barryd999 - 2019-01-30 2:21 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:43 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 10:31 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:27 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 6:03 PM

Some of you fail to realise it seems how important the EMA was. Forget about the jobs or the costs. Whats important is you have just chucked away a valuable regulatory standards agency that John Major fought hard for the UK to secure twenty years ago. Part of its job was to ensure that medicines across the EU are safe, effective and of high quality. Whos is going to do that after your Brexit Bonfire of regulations in the UK.


The EMA ...........We just wont be paying for their work .........

Unless you think the EU can ban the drug companies from selling us the drugs they've passed ? .......



Did you not read what I said about how valuable and massive our contribution to world medicine has been? What yard stick will we be judged by now?


It's all about ego with you Remoaners ..........

The EMA doesn't invent the drugs, they're just the gate keepers ...........



Jeez! Its all about standards and regulations that are respected throughout Europe and the world. Whilst the UK hosted the EMA our respected medicines industry, research and development made a massive impact around the globe. If we slip outside of those regulatory bodies and standards as I said what yard stick will we be judged by post Brexit as a third country on our own? Your no deal wet dream will take us out of all that on a race to the bottom as regards the economy and regulations on stuff like medicine.


May has already said we will align our medicine standards with the EU ...........

So another win win for Brexit Britain ..........

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 30 January 2019 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-01-30 9:25 AM............….So another win win for Brexit Britain ..........

Great scheme Dave. £0.01 won, £1.00 lost. Dave for Chancellor!
userpelmetman
Posted: 30 January 2019 11:17 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Walks with the gods

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Brian Kirby - 2019-01-30 11:12 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-30 9:25 AM............….So another win win for Brexit Britain ..........

Great scheme Dave. £0.01 won, £1.00 lost. Dave for Chancellor!


Incorrect .......we will have won back control of £350 million a week of OUR money ..........with the fringe benefit of having our drugs tested for free ............

userBrian Kirby
Posted: 30 January 2019 11:40 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


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Location: East Sussex. Motorhome: Knaus Boxstar 600 Street


pelmetman - 2019-01-30 11:17 AM
Brian Kirby - 2019-01-30 11:12 AM
pelmetman - 2019-01-30 9:25 AM............….So another win win for Brexit Britain ..........

Great scheme Dave. £0.01 won, £1.00 lost. Dave for Chancellor!

Incorrect .......we will have won back control of £350 million a week of OUR money ..........with the fringe benefit of having our drugs tested for free ............

So sad, you learn nothing, and endlessly repeat it!
userBarryd999
Posted: 30 January 2019 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Lord of the posts

Posts: 5767
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pelmetman - 2019-01-30 9:25 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-30 2:21 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:43 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 10:31 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:27 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 6:03 PM

Some of you fail to realise it seems how important the EMA was. Forget about the jobs or the costs. Whats important is you have just chucked away a valuable regulatory standards agency that John Major fought hard for the UK to secure twenty years ago. Part of its job was to ensure that medicines across the EU are safe, effective and of high quality. Whos is going to do that after your Brexit Bonfire of regulations in the UK.


The EMA ...........We just wont be paying for their work .........

Unless you think the EU can ban the drug companies from selling us the drugs they've passed ? .......



Did you not read what I said about how valuable and massive our contribution to world medicine has been? What yard stick will we be judged by now?


It's all about ego with you Remoaners ..........

The EMA doesn't invent the drugs, they're just the gate keepers ...........



Jeez! Its all about standards and regulations that are respected throughout Europe and the world. Whilst the UK hosted the EMA our respected medicines industry, research and development made a massive impact around the globe. If we slip outside of those regulatory bodies and standards as I said what yard stick will we be judged by post Brexit as a third country on our own? Your no deal wet dream will take us out of all that on a race to the bottom as regards the economy and regulations on stuff like medicine.


May has already said we will align our medicine standards with the EU ...........

So another win win for Brexit Britain ..........



Hmm. Just like the Tories said they wanted to protect the GFA? The trouble is Dave the rest of the world no longer trusts the UK's word. We now have a reputation of being totally untrustworthy in the way we have handled Brexit. Foxy going to other nations and trading blocs and just saying "Ere mate, do you wanna do a deal on sum of our medicines and stuff, totally safe and no mistake Guv" wont cut the mustard. Thats what we have become.
userpelmetman
Posted: 30 January 2019 10:49 PM
Subject: RE: EMA closure
 


Walks with the gods

Posts: 27041
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Location: 1990 Ford Travelhome.Currently of no fixed abode..


Barryd999 - 2019-01-30 11:45 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-30 9:25 AM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-30 2:21 AM

pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:43 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 10:31 PM

pelmetman - 2019-01-29 10:27 PM

Barryd999 - 2019-01-29 6:03 PM

Some of you fail to realise it seems how important the EMA was. Forget about the jobs or the costs. Whats important is you have just chucked away a valuable regulatory standards agency that John Major fought hard for the UK to secure twenty years ago. Part of its job was to ensure that medicines across the EU are safe, effective and of high quality. Whos is going to do that after your Brexit Bonfire of regulations in the UK.


The EMA ...........We just wont be paying for their work .........

Unless you think the EU can ban the drug companies from selling us the drugs they've passed ? .......



Did you not read what I said about how valuable and massive our contribution to world medicine has been? What yard stick will we be judged by now?


It's all about ego with you Remoaners ..........

The EMA doesn't invent the drugs, they're just the gate keepers ...........



Jeez! Its all about standards and regulations that are respected throughout Europe and the world. Whilst the UK hosted the EMA our respected medicines industry, research and development made a massive impact around the globe. If we slip outside of those regulatory bodies and standards as I said what yard stick will we be judged by post Brexit as a third country on our own? Your no deal wet dream will take us out of all that on a race to the bottom as regards the economy and regulations on stuff like medicine.


May has already said we will align our medicine standards with the EU ...........

So another win win for Brexit Britain ..........



Hmm. Just like the Tories said they wanted to protect the GFA? The trouble is Dave the rest of the world no longer trusts the UK's word. We now have a reputation of being totally untrustworthy in the way we have handled Brexit. Foxy going to other nations and trading blocs and just saying "Ere mate, do you wanna do a deal on sum of our medicines and stuff, totally safe and no mistake Guv" wont cut the mustard. Thats what we have become.


The GFA is a red herring that will soon become irrelevant when NI has a referendum on reunification ...........

A No Deal would deffo speed up the calls for a vote ............