Coming off SORN
userConrad
Posted: 24 June 2020 5:38 PM
Subject: Coming off SORN
 
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Need to watch this - I thought I'd tax my van from 1 July, having just insured it again in anticipation of using it next month. DVLA website would only tax it from 1 June. If you're doing same as me, don't be too hasty in pressing continue buttons on their website, or you'll end up paying for a month that's almost over.
userSolwaybuggier
Posted: 24 June 2020 10:34 PM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 
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I ‘m not sure about this, but I’m sure I’ve read in last few days that in the last couple of days of a month you get the option to tax from 1st of following month.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 25 June 2020 8:42 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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Solwaybuggier - 2020-06-24 10:34 PM

...I’m sure I’ve read in last few days that in the last couple of days of a month you get the option to tax from 1st of following month.


Do you know where you read this, please?

What little on-line advice there is about this tallies with Conrad's warning - that when a SORNed vehicle is re-taxed on-line, the VED start-date will always be the first day of the month in which the re-taxing application is made.

So applying on 30 June 2020 would result in a VED start-date of 1 June 2020.
userwitzend
Posted: 25 June 2020 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-25 8:42 AM

Do you know where you read this, please?

.


Its on their site we do it often if not using the van for a month always sorn
Now I'm not sure but think you can do it 14 days in advance but have only done it a couple of days personalty
userDeneb
Posted: 25 June 2020 10:48 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 
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When declaring SORN it is possible to choose between it starting immediately or from the first day of the month following the date of application, but when applying to re-tax online, as far as I'm aware you can only tax the vehicle from the start of the month in which the application is made, irrespective of the actual date of the application. I've never tried to tax when coming off of SORN within a couple of days of the start of a new month though, so I stand to be corrected. I normally tax my vehicles in anticipation of needing to use them, so for instance I taxed my car on the 9th of this month as I had to drive to London, and I taxed the MH yesterday as we wanted to drive it to a NT property that we had booked to visit. On both occasions the tax started from the first day of June, but I waited until the day I wanted to use the vehicles in case our plans changed.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 25 June 2020 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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witzend - 2020-06-25 10:19 AM

Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-25 8:42 AM

Do you know where you read this, please?

.


Its on their site...


I wasn’t aware you were psychic and could read Solwaybuggier’s mind.

I knew that (as Deneb says) it was possible to SORN a vehicle immediately or beginning the following month, but there seems to be no gov.uk guidance on being able to specify that re-taxing after a SORN-period should begin on a future date.

It’s not the SORN procedure that’s in doubt, it's the subsequent re-taxing.
userSolwaybuggier
Posted: 25 June 2020 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 
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It was only a comment made on a forum, I think - poster sounded very confident about it, but that doesn’t of course mean it’s correct. I thought it was on here, but if it was I’m sure Derek Uzzell would have known, so probably somewhere on MHFun.
userwitzend
Posted: 25 June 2020 9:28 PM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-25 1:55 PM
It’s not the SORN procedure that’s in doubt, it's the subsequent re-taxing.


Thats what I was referring to. At last something you didn't know about
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 26 June 2020 9:30 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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witzend

I’ve never claimed to be omniscient or infallible, but at the moment a lot of motorcaravanners will be SORNing their motorhomes and it makes sense that possible vagaries of the procedure are properly understood.

For example, as I recounted here earlier

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/SORN/54730/

having renewed my Rapido’s VED on 9 March 2020 for 12 months (If I had been omniscient and known the impact COVID-19 would have I definitely would not have done this!) and then SORNed the motorhome on 29 March 2020 when COVID-19’s effect on Continental travel became plain, the DVLA sent me a refund cheque for 11 months of VED rather than the 12 months I had anticipated I would receive. And another forum-member was similarly ‘penalised’. OK, I managed (by letter) to convince the DVLA that this was wrong and was recently sent a 2nd cheque for the ‘lost’ month, but I can well believe that a) other people will have experienced the same problem but not had the extra-month refund and b) it will happen again in the same ‘renew VED early’ - SORN later’ scenario.

This particular thread was originated by Conrad as a warning to forum-members when ‘un-SORNing’.

Conrad’s advice was queried by Solwaybuggier and I asked Solwaybuggier where he got his information from as my understanding was that what Conrad had said had been correct. Conrad’s warning about retaxing after SORN is made elsewhere on-line and, in fact, it was brought up by ColinM50 in his posting of 15 April 2020 6:01 PM on this earlier “how to un sorn” forum discussion.

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/how-to-un-sorn/54905/

I’ve never chosen to SORN a vehicle before and, consequently, I’ve never re-taxed a SORNed vehicle. My gut-feeling was that on-line re-taxing post-SORN would always result in a VED start-date of the first day of the month in which the re-taxing application was made. However, I’ve yet to do this and - although I went some way into the on-line VED application procedure to check for better information, I did not find it.

Now that Solwaybuggier has mentioned MHFun as the probable source of his information, this is almost certainly the relevant thread

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/sorn-information.221242/

where it is advised that, if an on-line VED application is made in the last few days of a month, the 1st day of the month that follows can be specified as when the new VED period should begin.

I’ve no reason to doubt this is so, though it would be valuable to know how many days before the end of a month the on-line VED-application procedure makes the option available. You’ve suggested 14 days in advance, but if Conrad was using the DVLA’s on-line procedure shortly before posting here on 24 June and wasn’t given the option of a 1 July start-date, a significantly fewer number of days seem more likely.
userStuartO
Posted: 26 June 2020 10:15 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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There is no technical obstacle to VED being sold and refunded on a daily basis now that the requirement for a paper tax disc has gone, so DVLA’s (and the Government’s) reasons for perpetuating a system Based on “counting whole month only” time periods has to be financial - i.e. they make more money that way.
And there are multiple injustices in the DVLA way of operating, many of which affect motorhomes, importing them and licences to drive them.

Unfortunately DVLA is a difficult nut to crack when it comes to making changes and they resist common sense arguments for change quite irrationally, even when you get your MP involved, as I did once. I decided eventually that there is no point in arguing, so don’t waste your life doing so.

There are small compensations, for example that MHs over 3,500kg get significantly cheaper road tax. Be thankful for small mercies.
userDeneb
Posted: 26 June 2020 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 
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Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-26 9:30 AM

I’ve no reason to doubt this is so, though it would be valuable to know how many days before the end of a month the on-line VED-application procedure makes the option available. You’ve suggested 14 days in advance, but if Conrad was using the DVLA’s on-line procedure shortly before posting here on 24 June and wasn’t given the option of a 1 July start-date, a significantly fewer number of days seem more likely.


I've also just retaxed our MH online on the 24th of this month (2 days ago) from having previously been notified SORN, and wasn't given any such option.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 26 June 2020 10:53 AM
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DVLA staff really have enough on their plate at the moment without 'trivial' questions about the on-line VED application procedure and, in any case, I think email enquiries are still not being processed.

I'll see if I can find out more about the taxing-in-advance option. It's certainly worth being aware that it exists, even if the exact details aren't yet known.
userSolwaybuggier
Posted: 26 June 2020 3:14 PM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 
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Thanks, Derek - that was the thread - one post claims to have retaxed on 31 May for 1 June, and another claims to have done so 2 or 3 days in advance. A trader reckons “ Pretty sure the option to tax from July box appears two or three days before july ie around the say the 28/29th June”.

But I’m not sure it’s worth worrying about unduly, unless you’re setting off early on 1st of a month. You can’t legally drive until taxing it, and I don’t think it takes long nowadays to tax, not like when you had to get a paper disk.
userConrad
Posted: 26 June 2020 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 
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OK, thanks folks. If I remember, I'll try again on 28 or 29 June. Really just wanted to ensure no-one else taxed for a whole load of days gone by. We're still limited to stay local in Wales anyway until 6 July; even that may yet change to stop those idiots from England who crowded the south coast beaches heading here!
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 27 June 2020 10:46 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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My Rapido motorhome is currently SORNed.

Using the 11-digit number on the Rapido’s V5C document and the vehicle’s registration number, as an experiment I’ve just run the on-line Vehicle Tax application procedure up to the “Check vehicle details” screen. That screen display says

Tax/SORN status: Your vehicle will be taxed from 01 June 2020

So on 27 June - 4 days before the end of that month - no option to ‘advance tax' from 1 July 2020 was available.

I’ll have another go on 28, 29 and 30 June, which may establish how close to the end of a month the ‘advance tax’ option begins to be offered.

userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 28 June 2020 7:32 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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On 28 June - 3 days before the end of that month - there is still no option to ‘advance tax' from 1 July 2020.

The following message continues to be displayed

Tax/SORN status: Your vehicle will be taxed from 01 June 2020



userdipsticks
Posted: 28 June 2020 2:52 PM
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You'll have to wait until the turn of midnight on the last day of the month in my experience, no earlier choices/options. When everything is running fast you can pay the tax and instantly see it's taxed on the internet MOT/TAX checker, but on a busy time the checker will still show it untaxed for anything up to a day or so, so it can be a bit of a worry it's all gone through.

Well that's my experience anyway.
userDeneb
Posted: 28 June 2020 3:31 PM
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dipsticks - 2020-06-28 2:52 PM

You'll have to wait until the turn of midnight on the last day of the month in my experience, no earlier choices/options. When everything is running fast you can pay the tax and instantly see it's taxed on the internet MOT/TAX checker, but on a busy time the checker will still show it untaxed for anything up to a day or so, so it can be a bit of a worry it's all gone through.

Well that's my experience anyway.


In other words, the first day of the month in which you want the tax to start

Seriously though, you can opt to provide your email address during the application and they send you an immediate confirmation email which includes the date and time you paid, the amount you paid, the registration mark of the vehicle you have taxed and the last four digits of the payment card. I find printing that off and putting it in the glove box prevents any concern on my part

The confirmation screen presented in the browser on completion of the application doesn't really contain sufficient information to satisfy an official enquiry, in my opinion.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 28 June 2020 5:43 PM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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dipsticks - 2020-06-28 2:52 PM

You'll have to wait until the turn of midnight on the last day of the month in my experience, no earlier choices/options...


The primary objective of Conrad’s original posting was to warn people that, if one applied to VED-tax a vehicle before the end of a month, the new period of VED would begin on the 1st day of the month in which the application was made. My understanding had been that this was always the case, and I said so in my posting of 25 June 2020 8:42 AM above.

However, comments in this MHFun forum thread

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/sorn-information.221242/

contradict that view, saying that - when it gets close to the end of a month - the VED application procedure provides an option to tax a vehicle from the 1st day of the following month.

Plainly there’s nothing to prevent the DVLA’s application procedure from always setting a new VED period to commence retrospectively (or, if the application is made on the 1st day of a month, immediately) and it would be the simplest way for the software to function. On the other hand, it would be peeving for a VED application made (say) on 30 June to be ‘backdated’ so that the VED period began on 1 June.

This 2017 Pistonhead’s thread was headed "Can't tax car until 1st day of next month...”

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1680735

The discussion included the statement

"If you'd been doing it in the last couple of days of the month, it'd have given you the choice of starting from 1st June or 1st July...”

But this is then contradicted by someone saying

"They don't give you the choice anymore, I had this conversation with the woman in the post office fairly recently. You can only buy for the month we are currently in, you can no longer buy for the 1st of the following month in advance. Supposedly they are trying to cut down on the amount of people buying a new vehicle and driving it untaxed for a few days prior to buying tax to get the best deal...”

If I taxed my (currently SORNed) Rapido motorhome today (28 June) using the DVLA’s on-line application procedure, the procedure indicates that the period of VED would begin on 1 June. The option to start the period of VED at a later date (eg. 1 July) is not offered.

Using the application procedure tomorrow (29 June) or the next day (30 June) may result in that option being offered and - if that happens - it will be known how many days before the end of a month the option becomes available.
userdipsticks
Posted: 28 June 2020 7:55 PM
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Deneb - 2020-06-28 3:31 PM

dipsticks - 2020-06-28 2:52 PM

You'll have to wait until the turn of midnight on the last day of the month in my experience, no earlier choices/options. When everything is running fast you can pay the tax and instantly see it's taxed on the internet MOT/TAX checker, but on a busy time the checker will still show it untaxed for anything up to a day or so, so it can be a bit of a worry it's all gone through.

Well that's my experience anyway.


In other words, the first day of the month in which you want the tax to start

Seriously though, you can opt to provide your email address during the application and they send you an immediate confirmation email which includes the date and time you paid, the amount you paid, the registration mark of the vehicle you have taxed and the last four digits of the payment card. I find printing that off and putting it in the glove box prevents any concern on my part

The confirmation screen presented in the browser on completion of the application doesn't really contain sufficient information to satisfy an official enquiry, in my opinion.


Seriously though

Having provided your email address,

"during the application and they send you an immediate confirmation email which includes the date and time you paid, the amount you paid, the registration mark of the vehicle you have taxed and the last four digits of the payment card. I find printing that off and putting it in the glove box prevents any concern on my part "

Can actually take anything up to a day or so to be received when the DVLA system is particularly busy, like around midnight for new resistrations etc, I was told by them on one occasion

Well that's my experience anyway, and disconcerting if you want to go off early on the first of the month.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 29 June 2020 7:13 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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My experience (based on recent multiple uses of the DVLA’s on-line procedures) is that the type of confirmatory email Deneb mentioned above will be sent immediately by the DVLA’s systems and, consequently, any delay in receipt can be expected to have resulted from whatever email software the intended recipient happens to be employing.

Obviously, if maintenance is being carried out on the DVLA’s systems, or there’s a general problem with their systems, there might be difficulties, but the DVLA systems will have been built to cope with very high load volumes and the confirmatory email is an automated response.

If no problem is experienced when making and successfully concluding an on-line VED-tax application, the chances are near-zero that the confirmatory email will not be sent immediately. It’s not like the VED-tax applications are being processed by people at desks in Swansea whose work-load continually fluctuates - it’s just software in big ‘black boxes’ that is doing the work.

Anyway, back to the original issue...

It’s now 29 June (2 days from the end of that month) and I have just run the on-line VED-tax appllication procedure again, inputting the 11-digit number on my the Rapido’s V5C document and the Rapido’s UK vehicle’s registration number.

Whereas previously the message "Tax/SORN status: Your vehicle will be taxed from 01 June 2020” was displayed, the message has now changed to

Tax/SORN status
Your vehicle can be taxed from either 01 July 2020 or 01 June 2020


It can now (reasonably safely) be concluded that, during the last TWO DAYS of a calendar month there is an on-line option to tax a vehicle from the 1st day of the month in which the VED-tax application is made OR from the 1st day of the month following.
userSolwaybuggier
Posted: 29 June 2020 8:11 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 
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Thank you for your tenacity in clarifying this issue, Derek.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 29 June 2020 8:22 AM
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Self-interest was the incentive
userDeneb
Posted: 29 June 2020 9:56 AM
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Derek Uzzell - 2020-06-29 7:13 AM

My experience (based on recent multiple uses of the DVLA’s on-line procedures) is that the type of confirmatory email Deneb mentioned above will be sent immediately by the DVLA’s systems and, consequently, any delay in receipt can be expected to have resulted from whatever email software the intended recipient happens to be employing.



Yes, I've been taxing or SORNing our vehicles online since at least 2007 (possibly a few years earlier, but my records don't clarify that those from 2005 were definitely online transactions, so I can't be sure) and have never experienced anything other than a near immediate email response.

It may depend on whether dipsticks email provider operates a push delivery system, or if his own client has to poll at predetermined intervals for mail.

Well done for confirming the start option exists Derek.
userwitzend
Posted: 29 June 2020 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: Coming off SORN
 


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witzend - 2020-06-25 10:19 AM

Now I'm not sure but think you can do it 14 days in advance but have only done it a couple of days personalty

Remember where you read it First
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 29 June 2020 10:31 AM
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It might be interesting to know how the DVLA procedure would treat February in a leap-year - whether the option would kick in on the 28th or stay on the more usual 27th. I'll check it out in 2024
userConrad
Posted: 29 June 2020 3:21 PM
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OK, taxed my van today from 1 July, which wasn't an option yesterday. So answer is only in last two days of one month can you tax from the next.

Edited by Conrad 2020-06-29 3:26 PM
userHomenaway
Posted: 29 June 2020 5:52 PM
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Just heard the six months extension for MOT is ending on July 31.

My MOT due on June 30th has been extended to December 30th so I can tax it again on July 1st without having to sort out an MOT while sorned. I forgot it was due to run out tomorrow!!

Even if I taxed it today for 1st July I couldn't put it on the road legally until Wednesday.