Speeding in France
userCattwg
Posted: 13 January 2021 11:17 AM
Subject: Speeding in France
 
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I saw an interesting article on MSN news www.msn.com
It says that UK drivers caught speeding by French cameras will evade fines. This is due to the information sharing agreement ceasing with Brexit.
I am not for one moment suggesting that this gives us carte blanch to speed in France but it may help if we inadvertently exceed the limit – as I did two years ago. (I’m not winging I was going downhill and should have braked, I didn’t and was flashed – serves me right). But a little leeway in strange territory may be useful.
I think the article is incorrect in one instance, it says France and Britain only started sharing information last year. My incident was in 2019.
However French police can still issue ‘on the spot’ fines for speeding.
Cattwg
usermtravel
Posted: 13 January 2021 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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I remember the French somewhere have unused guillotines ...
userZydeco Joe
Posted: 13 January 2021 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Only good thing about the brexit fiasco I have read. Shame we cannot take any food with us dont remember farage telling us about this.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 13 January 2021 11:47 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Cattwg - 2021-01-13 11:17 AM
I saw an interesting article on MSN news www.msn.com
It says that UK drivers caught speeding by French cameras will evade fines. This is due to the information sharing agreement ceasing with Brexit.................................................However French police can still issue ‘on the spot’ fines for speeding.
Cattwg

It might be helpful if you could provide a link to the article. If what it says is correct in other respects, bear in mind that the fine grows if not paid within a fixed time, and from memory eventually progresses to a prosecution. Also bear in mind the prevalence of ANPR cameras all over Europe, so once identified with a speeding offence your vehicle would still be identifiable while in France, or when next entering France from UK - when the penalty may have grown considerably! So, you might be held at a toll barrier, for example, or even identified when buying a ferry or tunnel ticket, or just as you drive around, by one of those "speed cops" you still see from time to time at the roadside or near roundabouts or even a police patrol car or roadside speed check on entering a town/village.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 13 January 2021 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Presumably this is the article Cattwg referred to

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/news/british-holidaymakers-to-dodge-eu-speeding-fines/ar-BB1cHxZj
userAtlowers
Posted: 13 January 2021 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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I have spent six months in France for the last 10 years. For many years I recieved no follow up to the few flashes I got and was very smug about the fact. Two or three years ago I suddenly started recieving notification of speeding offences in the previous year and have had two this year from cameras in low speed areas. Incidentally, there has been much confusion on speed limits certainly in languedoc where 80 changed to 70 but the road signs didn’t. That’s France for you. Took a few months then the speed limit was changed back, probably because it was cheaper than changing the signs.
Back on post. This change in attitude to chasing speeding offences for Non French cars was widely reported in the ex pat press in France at the time. With revenue being top priority for all European countries following COVID and brexit economic hits I fully expect any offences to find you eventually so sadly this doesn’t qualify as my first sight of a brexit benefit for us ordinary joe’s.
userCattwg
Posted: 13 January 2021 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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If what it says is correct in other respects, bear in mind that the fine grows if not paid within a fixed time, and from memory eventually progresses to a prosecution. Also bear in mind the prevalence of ANPR cameras all over Europe, so once identified with a speeding offence your vehicle would still be identifiable while in France, or when next entering France from UK - when the penalty may have grown considerably! So, you might be held at a toll barrier, for example, or even identified when buying a ferry or tunnel ticket, or just as you drive around, by one of those "speed cops" you still see from time to time at the roadside or near roundabouts or even a police patrol car or roadside speed check on entering a town/village.

I agree with and understand what you say but surely people cannot be prosecuted and then further penalized for an offence they are unaware off.
Cattwg
usermtravel
Posted: 13 January 2021 2:46 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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Have you ever thought that many countries are now turning credit/debt to collection companies ?

For example, it happened to a Dutch friend of mine for a parking fine taken in Italy.
Incidentally, the company entrusted with the case (I don't remember the name) was headquartered in the UK.
And it obviously has access to your data.

I would say not to tempt fate.

Max
userBarryd999
Posted: 13 January 2021 4:04 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Wow!! Its just possible Cattwg has finally come up with the Holy Grail!! An actual benefit from Brexit!!! Ta Daaaaa!

If its true and it reverts back to how it was up until a couple of years ago then you wont get fined or chased as they wont have access to your details. Now I am not suggesting we all tear around Europe like Lewis Hamilton of course but ill hold my hand up to being a frequent flasher on the continent. So far never had a fine but not been over the water since 2018.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 13 January 2021 5:46 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Cattwg - 2021-01-13 2:29 PM
Brian Kirby - 2021-01-13 11:47 AM .............................. If what it says is correct in other respects, bear in mind that the fine grows if not paid within a fixed time, and from memory eventually progresses to a prosecution. Also bear in mind the prevalence of ANPR cameras all over Europe, so once identified with a speeding offence your vehicle would still be identifiable while in France, or when next entering France from UK - when the penalty may have grown considerably! So, you might be held at a toll barrier, for example, or even identified when buying a ferry or tunnel ticket, or just as you drive around, by one of those "speed cops" you still see from time to time at the roadside or near roundabouts or even a police patrol car or roadside speed check on entering a town/village.

I agree with and understand what you say but surely people cannot be prosecuted and then further penalized for an offence they are unaware off.
Cattwg

From my own experience in 2019, the "Violation Notice" for speeding imposes a fixed fine (the rate depending on the margin by which the speed limit was exceeded), that is reduced by 33% if paid within 82 days (97 days if paid remotely via credit or debit card) of the actual offence. There appears to be a 36 day period of grace allowed for the official notice to be delivered and payment to be made, from the date of the offence . If this date is not met the early payment reduction is lost. If the payment has not been made after 112 days the fine is more than doubled (2.5 times more).

The margin applied to the speed limit at that time, in France, was +5kph up to 100kph, and then 5% of the measured speed (for a fixed camera). The examples given are: for a recorded speed of 95kph the speed used is 90kph (95kph-5kph), and for a recorded speed of 140kph the speed used would be 133kph (140kph - 7kph (7kph being 140kph x 5%)).

There is a procedure to appeal the offence. If your car has been stolen or you were not the driver you pay nothing up front pending the appeal hearing (at which you would presumably have to provide evidence to support the appeal) and if appealing on any other ground you have to pay a deposit equal to the full fixed penalty. All this is explained clearly in excellent English in the Violation Notice and attachments.

My violation was 89kph in an 80kph zone, and the speed used was 84kph. That is to say I was "allowed" up to 85kph without penalty. If you're driving a recent model Ducato, I'll leave you to assess how you can judge your speed with that much precision on the standard Ducato speedometer!

Clearly I don't know what the French authorities will now do if the Mail/Times articles are correct, but I'd be surprised if some alternative arrangement is not made over the next few months/years. In the meantime, I anticipate that the French authorities will gain access to the ANPR cameras at the French ports/Eurotunnel terminal entrances and, if leaving with an unpaid penalty, one would be liable to be pulled over and either served the violation notices, or invited to pay there and then!

More seriously, the main problem we mostly face when driving in mainland Europe is the relatively coarse graduation of the Ducato/Boxer kph speedometer dial compared to the mph graduations (which themselves are hardly exemplary!), and that the upward margin is tight. 5kph is only 3mph. It is too tight a margin to gamble with. As most speedos are "fast" just keep the indicated road speed below the limit, assuming you can actually see the indicated road speed with the necessary clarity!

Why this has not been disputed through VOSA I can only guess to be lack of interest on this side of the channel. Our van is LHD (so native European, but with a Lockwood mph speedometer card ), and the visibility of even the MPH scale is highly compromised by shadow in strong sunlight through the drivers window. The kph scale is so small I'm amazed it ever achieved type approval. I queried this with VOSA soon after we got the van, and was advised to take it up with the Italian approval authority in Milan! Thanks guys!
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 13 January 2021 6:30 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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In 2017, the UK was obliged under EU law to sign up to the Mutual Legal Assistance scheme (MLA) that has permitted participating countries to obtain data allowing persuance of ‘foreign’ drivers who have committed motoring offences.

These two 2019 articles refer

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7349481/French-authorities-account-76-requests-driver-details-foreign-police.html

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-7361213/UK-authorities-chase-foreign-drivers-offences-committed-roads.html

For many years the French authorities had abhorred that UK drivers were ‘immune’ to unmanned roadside speed cameras, and there seems little doubt that, with Brexit looming, those authorities began to make heavy use of the MLA scheme capabilities that - it was anticipated - would become unavailable when Brexit was complete.

Although UK motorists committing driving offences in France could be prosecuted, fined and a demand for payment sent to the UK, ‘points’ for such offences could not be imposed on the UK driving licence. I vaguely recall Macron floating an idea that a UK motorist committing a driving offence in France would be given some sort of pseudo French driving licence to which points could be awarded. I can’t remember how this was supposed to work, but it never got off the ground.
userniktam
Posted: 13 January 2021 7:18 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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In the 40mph speed limit on the A14 contraflow last year droves of foreign trucks were flat out which meant that their speed was restricted to 56mph-yeah. one after the other.......
userCattwg
Posted: 14 January 2021 12:16 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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If the French authorities do not have access to the relevant information in the first place then a “violation notice” cannot be issued, as at present, by post. Therefore, all subsequent current scenarios do not apply.

From the Telegraph article: “More than 444,000 British motorists were fined for offences detected by cameras in France last year …………. It will cost the French £60 million a year when traffic from British motorists returns to pre-Covid levels. …….. These can be levied up to a year after the offence.”

So I’d be surprised if the French don’t, in the not too distant future negotiate a return to the pre Brexit exchange of information.
I’m not complaining, France has reduced its road deaths dramatically over the last few decades. If the roads are safer for the French then they are safer for us.
Cattwg
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 14 January 2021 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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The potential impact of Brexit on the EU Cross Border Enforcement Directive

https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/CBE_FAQs_March_2015_Update.pdf

was highlighted after the result of the Brexit referendum was known.

https://www.drinkdrugdriving.co.uk/advice/caught-speeding-in-the-eu-after-brexit/

This 13 January 2021 AutoExpress article

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/consumer-news/100444/uk-drivers-escape-eu-speed-camera-fines-due-brexit

concludes

...French authorities are said to be seeking a bilateral arrangement with the UK, similar to the one they have with Switzerland, which would allow previous cross-border arrangements over speeding penalties to be restored, but such an agreement could take years to bring about.

Although road fatalities have decreased in France over the years, these statistics reveal that the reduction is not as dramatic as is sometimes believed.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/767979/deaths-road-accidents-state-driver-france/

There has beeen a French cultural shift away from driving and alchohol consumption, but there’s been an offsetting rise in driving and drug taking, particularly among youngish motorists.

(Perhaps there will be a quid pro quo agreement allowing UK drivers to be fined for committing motoring offences in France, and allowing the occupants of UK-registered vehicles to import to France milk and dairy/animal products for personal consumption.)
userTeePee
Posted: 14 January 2021 2:49 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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In Norway many of the roads are toll roads and you had to pay some of them by pulling into a layby and paying the toll at a machine. I missed one and 18 months later received a fine through the post from an agent in London, complete with a photo of me driving !
usermtravel
Posted: 14 January 2021 3:23 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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TeePee - 2021-01-14 3:49 PM

In Norway many of the roads are toll roads and you had to pay some of them by pulling into a layby and paying the toll at a machine. I missed one and 18 months later received a fine through the post from an agent in London, complete with a photo of me driving !

I see that I am not the only one who has verified that British debt collection companies are sometime involved.

In Norway there are a few paid sections (really not many) and it happens that some tunnels are too.
Many towns have a pollution or congestion tax with automatic cameras.
For example Bergen, Bodo, Trondheim, Kistiansand.

To avoid problems, simply register the vehicle.
See https://www.autopass.no/en/visitors-payment
Done twice without problems.
Payments:
The first by means of a credit card (I believe no longer used).
The latest with e-mail notification and online payment.
Typically the notification comes after a couple of months.

For your knowledge, there are tolls in Sweden too.
Gothemburg and Stockolm have a congestion tax ( https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/en/road/road-tolls/Congestion-taxes-in-Stockholm-and-Goteborg/ ).
In addition, two bridges are subject to charges, in Motala and Sundsvall ( https://www.transportstyrelsen.se/en/road/road-tolls/ ).
Fractions of pound but online payment only (with the risk of receiving a fine) unless you register the vehicle (multilingual https://www.epass24.com/ ).

Max
userOcsid
Posted: 15 January 2021 9:10 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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These things being "digital", I suspect it would be doable to link it to local registration identification cameras at ports, enabling any due fine to be taken at the booking in kiosk pre joining the ferry queue?
userCattwg
Posted: 15 January 2021 11:31 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-14 2:40 PM
There has been a French cultural shift away from driving and alcohol consumption

I hope this is true. But the shift to drugs is concerning.

I well remember, a few years ago, stopping for a ‘comfort break’ at a large French layby. We watched two truck drivers eating lunch from a ‘burger bar’ (not sure what the French equivalent is). Lunch included a couple of glasses of wine and ‘something from under the counter’. They then climbed into their 40 tonne trucks and drove off. We waited a further 10 minutes to hopefully ensure that they were well out of our range.
Cattwg
userBarryd999
Posted: 15 January 2021 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Ocsid - 2021-01-15 9:10 AM

These things being "digital", I suspect it would be doable to link it to local registration identification cameras at ports, enabling any due fine to be taken at the booking in kiosk pre joining the ferry queue?

I Cant see how that would be enforceable or practical. Given that traffic flow at borders is likely to be pretty grim moving forward now anyway, will border force really want to be dealing with sorting out fines for speeding? Also presumably with a speeding fine from a fixed unmanned camera you should have the opportunity to dispute it or have your day in court? What happens then if you dispute it at the border?
userOcsid
Posted: 15 January 2021 12:12 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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Barryd999 - 2021-01-15 11:54 AM

Also presumably with a speeding fine from a fixed unmanned camera you should have the opportunity to dispute it or have your day in court? What happens then if you dispute it at the border?

Stay over to argue your claim?

Simply note your credit card details and passport, so if you lose your claim they can take the funds, or should you prevaricate, seize you if you ever return.

Not convinced they will sit back and permit UK drivers to ignore speeding restrictions, where the technology exists to do otherwise.
usermtravel
Posted: 15 January 2021 12:21 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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Barryd999 - 2021-01-15 12:54 PM

I Cant see how that would be enforceable or practical. Given that traffic flow at borders is likely to be pretty grim moving forward now anyway, will border force really want to be dealing with sorting out fines for speeding? Also presumably with a speeding fine from a fixed unmanned camera you should have the opportunity to dispute it or have your day in court? What happens then if you dispute it at the border?

Don't worry about them.
They don't need to queue up at customs gates.
Just have you sit in a corner where a thoughtful flic will take care of you without hassle.
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 15 January 2021 12:33 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Barryd999 - 2021-01-15 11:54 AM
Ocsid - 2021-01-15 9:10 AM
These things being "digital", I suspect it would be doable to link it to local registration identification cameras at ports, enabling any due fine to be taken at the booking in kiosk pre joining the ferry queue?

I Cant see how that would be enforceable or practical. Given that traffic flow at borders is likely to be pretty grim moving forward now anyway, will border force really want to be dealing with sorting out fines for speeding? Also presumably with a speeding fine from a fixed unmanned camera you should have the opportunity to dispute it or have your day in court? What happens then if you dispute it at the border?

I think the point relates to when you book in to leave France, Barry, at the ferry/tunnel check in. You have to present ticket and passport to leave France, and are still on French soil. So you get asked to pull over just beyond the check in point, and are then approached by French police with evidence of the offence. If you pay on the spot you get the lower charge, if you want to dispute the offence you pay the higher rate as a deposit, but then have to provide your address etc, so that the formal notification can be posted to you. The procedure would then follow the same path as before Brexit.
usermtravel
Posted: 15 January 2021 1:50 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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mtravel - 2021-01-15 1:21 PM

Barryd999 - 2021-01-15 12:54 PM

I Cant see how that would be enforceable or practical. Given that traffic flow at borders is likely to be pretty grim moving forward now anyway, will border force really want to be dealing with sorting out fines for speeding? Also presumably with a speeding fine from a fixed unmanned camera you should have the opportunity to dispute it or have your day in court? What happens then if you dispute it at the border?

Don't worry about them.
They don't need to queue up at customs gates.
Just have you sit in a corner where a thoughtful flic will take care of you without hassle.

I quote myself.
I understood on arrival in France from the UK and your license plate is in some database of unpaid fines.
However, on the way back to the UK, I don't think they really care if you miss the ferry.

Max

p.s. I remember some cases in Greece.
After all the payment deadlines have passed, someone has been "invited" to appear in court assisted by a lawyer. Which obviously had to be Greek.
Good luck.
userBarryd999
Posted: 15 January 2021 2:22 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Well two things then. If it was so easy to just get you at the border then why did they not introduce such a scheme before as the details sharing with the UK only came into force in 2017. Number plate recognition has been in place for donkeys years? Secondly, why are they now pursuing a bilateral deal with the UK to continue the sharing of data? Whats the point if they can just catch you at the border which they could do now rather than wait years for a new agreement? There must be more to it. I dont know of any country that checks you for speeding fines at the border. Pretty sure its never happened here either for departing foreign vehicles.
usermtravel
Posted: 15 January 2021 3:01 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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I'm almost sure of this too.
But the computers has made possible real time controls that previously were only in the dreams of some visionary startup.

Just imagine if you were caught by a camera and a little further on you find a patrol waiting for you.

- A friend of mine was stopped just after the Frejus tunnel.
Intercepted by a camera because inside the tunnel he did not respect the distance from the vehicle in front of him.
- Another happened to be stopped at a toll gate on the motorway towards Toulouse for speeding a few kilometers before.
- Nice, when you enter the motorway towards Monaco, on the climb there is a limit of 90km/h.
Which many do not respect.
At the top there is a toll booth.
Seen several times, one patrol every two gates saying: you can pass, you must stop here instead.

Imagine if they discover that you also have unpaid fines ...

It has never happened to me but I have read that also in Austria and Switzerland it's quite common.

Sharing data is a means to facilitate and speed things up.
But even without it, every country has ways to find you, as long as it's worth, I talked about it above.

Max

Edited by mtravel 2021-01-15 3:03 PM
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 15 January 2021 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Barryd999 - 2021-01-15 2:22 PM

Well two things then. If it was so easy to just get you at the border then why did they not introduce such a scheme before as the details sharing with the UK only came into force in 2017. Number plate recognition has been in place for donkeys years? Secondly, why are they now pursuing a bilateral deal with the UK to continue the sharing of data? Whats the point if they can just catch you at the border which they could do now rather than wait years for a new agreement? There must be more to it. I dont know of any country that checks you for speeding fines at the border. Pretty sure its never happened here either for departing foreign vehicles.

Although a France/UK bilateral agreement similar to the France/Switzerland agreement would be a possibility, it would undoubtedly be unpopular with the British public. This link refers

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/roads/brits-will-escape-speeding-fines-eu-due-brexit/amp/

(I can't see a 'catch UK speeders at border controls' system being either cost effective or being a practical approach.)
usermtravel
Posted: 15 January 2021 4:43 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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Sorry if I insist, bilateral agreements on information sharing are one thing but I talked about collection companies.

I may be wrong but what I understand is that a state "sells" the fine to one of them being satisfied with some forfeiting.
And let's say that the fine was € 135, unpaid went up to € 375.

At this point you owe € 375 to this company and no longer to the country where you committed the violation.
From what happened to my Dutch friend, I understood that it is the company that is acting against you and not the country that has already taken its money.
They will find a way to identify you, agreements in force or not.
Plenty of lawyers, it will storm you with requests for payment and threats to take you to court.

I don't know if it will happen with the French country but it certainly happens in others.
I spoke of Italy, another of Norway.

This is my experience.

Max
usermikemelson
Posted: 15 January 2021 5:41 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Barryd999 - 2021-01-13 4:04 PM

Wow!! Its just possible Cattwg has finally come up with the Holy Grail!! An actual benefit from Brexit!!! Ta Daaaaa!

If its true and it reverts back to how it was up until a couple of years ago then you wont get fined or chased as they wont have access to your details. Now I am not suggesting we all tear around Europe like Lewis Hamilton of course but ill hold my hand up to being a "frequent flasher" on the continent. So far never had a fine but not been over the water since 2018.

I've heard about Flashers on the Continent!
userBarryd999
Posted: 15 January 2021 5:57 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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mtravel - 2021-01-15 4:43 PM

Sorry if I insist, bilateral agreements on information sharing are one thing but I talked about collection companies.

I may be wrong but what I understand is that a state "sells" the fine to one of them being satisfied with some forfeiting.
And let's say that the fine was € 135, unpaid went up to € 375.

At this point you owe € 375 to this company and no longer to the country where you committed the violation.
From what happened to my Dutch friend, I understood that it is the company that is acting against you and not the country that has already taken its money.
They will find a way to identify you, agreements in force or not.
Plenty of lawyers, it will storm you with requests for payment and threats to take you to court.

I don't know if it will happen with the French country but it certainly happens in others.
I spoke of Italy, another of Norway.

This is my experience.

Max

But if they are no longer able to access your data and details then they cant chase you can they which was the case before 2017 and is now the case after Brexit. Apparently.
usermtravel
Posted: 16 January 2021 12:13 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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Barryd999 - 2021-01-15 6:57 PM
/QUOTE]
But if they are no longer able to access your data and details then they cant chase you can they which was the case before 2017 and is now the case after Brexit. Apparently.


I don't know how it works in the UK but here, just visit your DVLA equivalent site to get all the information on a vehicle.
Just pay a small fee and you have access to the owner (and any previous ones) data, MOTs carried out, accidents, existence of mortgages, etc.
This as a private citizen and one shot, obviously insurance companies, agencies, etc. have a subscription to the service.

You will say that in this way privacy is not protected.
I reply by saying that if I am in negotiations for the purchase of a vehicle, I have the right to know its history.

You understand that at least in some countries it is not absolutely difficult to trace the owner.

Max
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 16 January 2021 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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I think the point is fairly simple. The most probable way in which any of us is likely to commit an offence outside UK is speeding, and the most probable way that is likely to happen is via a fixed speed camera.

So the relevant authorities now have all the details they need (time, date, vehicle registration, actual speed and limit in force) to penalise the offence.

What they no longer have is automated access to DVBLA records to allow them to contact us individually to levy the fine. But they still have the details, and they can still recognise the vehicle via ANPR whether in a police car or any other networked ANPR camera.

They can also, is they choose, still contact the UK authorities, as was the case before the UK signed up to the EU Cross-Border Enforcement Directive.

The only questions, I think, will be whether they will bother and, if they do, how they will go about it.

The usual penalty is an on the spot fine if identified by a patrol car or manned roadside speed check, or whatever alternative system may be adopted to identify offending vehicle in the vicinity of the ports.

I just don't see how the idea that one will simply drive away - possibly in complete ignorance - and the fine will just be left behind, can be sustained. Few countries that have introduced very widespread networked ANPR speed cameras, which continually "bag" their nationals, will ignore the political pressure from their own nationals complaining that the British are getting away Scot Free with traffic offences.
userCattwg
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:24 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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mtravel - 2021-01-13 2:46 PM
Have you ever thought that many countries are now turning credit/debt to collection companies ?
For example, it happened to a Dutch friend of mine for a parking fine taken in Italy.
Incidentally, the company entrusted with the case (I don't remember the name) was headquartered in the UK.
And it obviously has access to your data. I would say not to tempt fate.
Max

This poses an interesting question. If the fine has been ‘bought’ (i.e. effectively paid) by a debt company then presumably the authority concerned has no further interest in the offence. So what is the legal position if the offender refuses to pay the debt company. The company would probably have to take the person to court.
Interesting, for those who like hypothetical questions.
Cattwg
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:53 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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France (the country the title of this thread refers to) does not use debt collection agencies to pursue speeding fines.

See also

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/could-brexit-trigger-a-surge-of-speeding-brits-in-europe/
userBrian Kirby
Posted: 17 January 2021 11:54 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Cattwg - 2021-01-17 11:24 AM

mtravel - 2021-01-13 2:46 PM
Have you ever thought that many countries are now turning credit/debt to collection companies ?
For example, it happened to a Dutch friend of mine for a parking fine taken in Italy.
Incidentally, the company entrusted with the case (I don't remember the name) was headquartered in the UK.
And it obviously has access to your data. I would say not to tempt fate.
Max

This poses an interesting question. If the fine has been ‘bought’ (i.e. effectively paid) by a debt company then presumably the authority concerned has no further interest in the offence. So what is the legal position if the offender refuses to pay the debt company. The company would probably have to take the person to court.
Interesting, for those who like hypothetical questions.
Cattwg

My hypothetical reply is that the debt factor only acts as an agent of the state for the purpose of gathering the fine. If the fine is deemed unrecoverable by the factor, they will hand back the infraction to the state which will, in all probability, hand the issue to the police to resolve by whatever means the law of the state dictates. Speeding, at least in UK, is a criminal, and not a civil, offence. Somewhere, that record of a criminal offence is liable to be retained (unless, of course, it is held on the PNC! ).
usermtravel
Posted: 17 January 2021 12:30 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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Cattwg - 2021-01-17 12:24 PM

Interesting, for those who like hypothetical questions.
Cattwg

More real than hypothetical.
At least threaten to do so until you give in and pay.
They have so many lawyers that for them it is not a problem (see above also my other answer and the experience of my Dutch friend).
userjohnjlillie
Posted: 28 January 2021 2:25 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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re debt collection agencies, I had a similar "dispute" with sky tv, (£33) it went from sky to agency, then back to sky over a period of over 12 months before they gave in. And no, I certainly did not owe them anything and would have happily disputed it in court
uservindiboy
Posted: 28 January 2021 2:48 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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Having watched Cant Pay we will take it away on TV where bailiffs chase unpaid debts and parking fines etc, fines that spiral out of control with added charges become huge and out of context to the original fine, I for one would not want to become embroiled in that scenario, so if I did receive a notice of speeding fine I would bite the bullet and pay, if I felt it a genuine fine and proper. If you cant do the time, don't do the Crime as they say.
uservindiboy
Posted: 28 January 2021 2:51 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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johnjlillie - 2021-01-28 2:25 PM

re debt collection agencies, I had a similar "dispute" with sky tv, (£33) it went from sky to agency, then back to sky over a period of over 12 months before they gave in. And no, I certainly did not owe them anything and would have happily disputed it in court
Trouble wit that is it can be recorded on your credit record and impact on you in the future if you required credit for a mobile phone, or such like ?
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 28 January 2021 6:33 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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As motoring offence fines in Italy (not France - which is what this thread was meant to concentrate on) being pursued by debt collection agencies was mentioned earlier, this 2019/2020 Pistonheads discussion may be of interest

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1845223&i=0
userBarryd999
Posted: 28 January 2021 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Derek Uzzell - 2021-01-28 6:33 PM

As motoring offence fines in Italy (not France - which is what this thread was meant to concentrate on) being pursued by debt collection agencies was mentioned earlier, this 2019/2020 Pistonheads discussion may be of interest

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=1845223&i=0

Thats a hire car company though. The hire car company will have your details so will pass them on. I think the argument now is that post Brexit there is no link for the European police to obtain your details from DVLA anymore, like it was pre 2017. I wonder what the outcome of that one was. seemed excessive.
userDerek Uzzell
Posted: 29 January 2021 7:59 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 


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Discussions about debt collection agencies pursuing people in the UK for motoring offences committed abroad have commonly involved cars registered in the country where the offence took place and hired there - it was well known that this happened and shouldn’t be affected by the UK withdrawing from the Mutual Legal Assistance (MLA) scheme with effect from 1 January 2021. (I did read somewhere (purely for example) that if a car were hired in (say) Italy and then driven in (say) Spain where a motoring offence was committed, Spain would not bother pursuing the issue - but I’ve no idea if that’s correct.)

I’m not sure how to interpret your last sentence "I wonder what the outcome of that one was. seemed excessive”. A fortnight ago there was a spate of articles about the effect on ‘foreign’ speeding prosecutions of the UK withdrawing fron the MLA (example on the link in my earlier posting of 15 January 2021 4:11 PM) but I can’t find anything more informative on-line since then.

usersheer lunar-see
Posted: 30 January 2021 10:07 PM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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Just a small matter he forgot to mention, there were plenty of others that you will find out about as time goes on. Funny you don't here from him now.
userjohnjlillie
Posted: 31 January 2021 11:51 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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interesting comment on blog"motorhominginfrance" where he says that speeding offences caught on cameras will not be pursued by French authorities!
userjohnjlillie
Posted: 31 January 2021 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: Speeding in France
 
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my understanding is the case has to go to court before it can be added to your credit rating. I certainly have not experienced any problems since.