mike 202 Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I will shortly be buying an Autosleeper Windsor and dont know if Diesel or electric heating is best. Any for or against comments much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hi Mike, If you are on site and paying for electricity, then using your expensive diesel would be a waste of money. If you are using the Eberspacher Diesel heater, you will find that the Eperspacher has heavy 12 volt consumption,so you need to be on mains electric if winter touring. The Eberspacher in winter has some advantages, domestic hot water heated by the engine whilst travelling, very efficient lounge and cab heating static and while in motion and fuel available everywhere, even if you cannot aford it :'( I wonder if you are comparing the diesel heating with the Truma heater system as link http://tinyurl.com/6r2r7j , if coupled with the Truma Utrastore electric and gas boiler, makes an excellent combination. I have had the Eberspacher system and currently have the Truma, one of the main reasons for using diesel for heating and cooking was the problem with obtaining gas when abroad. With the advent of domestic LPG motorhome storage systems being available, Gaslow etc.. http://www.gaslow.co.uk/ ,gas for heating and cooking is cheaper than diesel and available everywhere in europe. When the eberspacher decides to go on holiday, it can cost a small fortune to put right, but then a truma control board is around £300, I have had more trouble with Eberspacher in 18 months, than I had had with the Truma system in 4 years, I like the idea of the convector heater on all night on gas or electricity, nice and warm and no noise, competely silent, unlike the Eberspacher. Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 mike 202: I don't seem able to access the Windsor-related section on Auto-Sleepers' website (that, from my past experience, is regularly unreliable), but my understanding was that the only space/water heating 'fit' that was available for current larger Ford Transit-based A-S models comprised a diesel-fuelled Eberspacher "Airtronic" blown-air space-heater, plus a separate Truma B10 gas/230V water-boiler. This is the heating system on the A-S Wilton reported on in MMM June 2008 and I was under the impression it was the same for Windsor, particularly as that's what's indicated on the A-S Windsor press-release I picked up at the 2006 NEC Show when the model was launched. The 2006 press-release describes the Windsor's heating system as -"Thermostatically controlled blown-air heating system, powered by vehicle's fuel supply. LPG (gas) and mains electric water-heating system, supplying hot water to bath, sink and shower." Obviously, as you are buying a Windsor, you are better placed than I to know what the current conversion options are, but I'm rather mystified by your reference to "electric heating". It's not uncommon to offer an optional upgrade to gas-fuelled motorhome heating appliances to allow them to use 230V as well as LPG (eg. the Ultraheat option for some Truma S-Series gas fires), but I've never come across the option to choose between one heating system that uses just diesel-fuel or another that uses just electricity. In fact the only motorhome heating systems I'm aware of that are 'electricity only' are 230V-powered under-floor types (that can only be used while the vehicle is on hook-up) that I'm sure A-S doesn't offer. It would be easy enough to provide pros-and-cons if one knew precisely what the alternative heating systems were, but, without that information, I think even an educated guess is impossible. I'm reluctant to suggest that you are misunderstanding what's available on Windsor, but I believe it might be wise for you to confirm this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 Hi Derek, thanks for your reply and sorry to confuse you. When I rang Autosleepers today they attempted to clarify the matter but they did not mention type numbers of the units. They said that I could delete the Eberspacher unit for blown air and have a Truma Ultraheat 230v heating system. I have taken that to mean a mains/LPG(Gas) combined unit for hot water and heating as fitted to the swift bolero. I am familiar with the swift bolero unit having used it in Spain for a few weeks, but am unfamiliar with the plus/minus for the Eberspacher unit for blown air, hence my cry for help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Given a choice I would NOT have the eberspatcher for all the reasons given plus they are very noisy, especially outside and eat batteries. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 Mike: Best, I think, to review what has already been said. Terry mentioned that his motorhome's Eberspacher system had a water-heating capability, but that's unavailable with the "Airtronic" diesel-fuelled unit fitted by Auto-Sleepers. "Airtronic" defines a range of simple blown-air Eberspacher appliances with various levels of heating output and, because such units tend to be on the noisy side (especially at the start-up stage), they are best installed outside the motorhome's living-area, normally beneath the motorhome's floor (where they save interior space) and preferably in a sound-insulated protective enclosure. I don't know how Auto-Sleepers fit diesel-fuelled air-heaters, but that's how it really ought to be done. "Ultraheat" refers to the 230V option available for Truma S-3002 gas convector 'fires' and details of it are shown in Terry's http://tinyurl.com/6r2r7j link. Ultraheat is just a mains-powered radiant heating element that bolts to the back of the gas-fire allowing space-heating to be obtained while the motorhome is connected to a 230V power supply. So, if you opt for the 'Ultraheat system', what you'll get is a Truma S-3002 convector gas fire with a 230V add-on instead of the (almost certainly more expensive) Eberspacher air-heating unit. You don't say which model of Swift Bolero you own, but the MMM June 2007 report of a Bolero 630EW said that this had a Truma C-series 'combination' air/water heater and this tallies with your description of your Bolero's system. This is NOT what A-S is offering - if you choose not to have the Eberspacher air-heater, you'll have instead a Truma S-3002 gas/230V convector appliance (presumably with blown-air capability) for space heating and a separate Truma B10 "Ultrastore" gas/230V boiler for water heating. Convector fires can be tricky to integrate into a motorhome layout that was originally designed for a 'hidden' heating appliance like the Eberspacher or Truma C-Series units. I would expect A-S to graft the gas-fire on to the lower part of the wardrobe's face, but it would be wise for you to check where it would go and, if you can, try to get a look at a gas-fire-equipped Windsor to assess whether adding the fire has significant implications regarding storage, moving from front-to-rear in the living area, etc. Putting aside the integration caveats, I agree with Terry and Clive's advice. A Truma gas/230V convector heater with blown-air capability, plus a Truma gas/230V water-boiler, has got to be the Thinking Motorcaravanner's heating system of choice for a reasonably compact (say, sub-7 metres) vehicle with an 'open' interior layout. It's the traditional versatile heating arrangement that caravanners know and love and will be particularly suitable for motorhomes that spend extended periods connected to a mains power-supply. I suppose the only real advantage nowadays of a diesel-fuelled air-heater over a gas-fire is that the former can be used safely while the motorhome is being driven. Worth mentioning too, that any problems with the straightforward all-Truma system should easily be handled by any motorhome/caravan dealer, whereas problems with the Eberspacher heater will require specialist attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted May 29, 2008 Author Share Posted May 29, 2008 thanks Derek, A brilliant revue of the systems, I now have a very clear picture of what is what. A big thank you to each of you who replied to my post. Good luck for the future Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger s Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 My Windsor has a Truma Gas/Elec system instead of the diesel system, we couldnt be doing with the noise the latter creates. It was an option on purchase. A-S fit the fire below the wardrobe door. The warm air outlet that would normally be there is moved to under the seat in front of the cold water tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted June 1, 2008 Author Share Posted June 1, 2008 thanks to everyone for all of the info am ordering an Autosleeper next week with the Truma option. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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