Terrytraveller Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 A woman facing up to four years in jail for having a kitchen knife in her car Did you know we could all land in jail - see link http://tinyurl.com/5txk2c I go out shopping once a week ,and I never go out without my knife, always take a selection, my favourite is a 12 inch blade and razor sharp. I drive a motorhome with a fully equipped kitchen - but am I breaking the law too? Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 No you have a valid reason to carry them,unlike myself, often wearing work trousers or hunting trousers out and about and forget to take out knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 The sad bit is that I'm not remotely surprised. The country is going to hell in a handcart.... and us with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 I suspect if the knife was in the cab then you would be for it Colin. Weren't Hunting trousers the ones with well oiled zips - when I was young - I think. ;-) Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan k Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 It was interesting after 9/11, we were stopped about to board the ferry in Dover and asked if we had any knives with us, "yes" I said " a full kitchen set" why? I was asked " for food preparation and cooking" I said, thats ok I was told and we were allowed to board. I've always wondered if we were expected to hijack the ferry! alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 "We're all doomed" sounds like the re-birth of 'Dad's Army' with Private James Frazier. (Actor John Laurie ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Parke Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I still get funny looks like Alan, even now when I answer the security chap's question about knives as 'yes, of course!' Being bl**dy minded I never elaborate on my answer unless asked!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 It makes you wonder why the local council would not confirm that she held a licence for a hot food van at the local market (?) Surely inside your own car doesn't class as a "public place"? (she was charged with "having a knife in a public place without good reason"). Perhaps she ought to have not left the knife where it could be seen but I think the plod was a bit over zealous. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 The problem with stories like this is that "newspapers" often just publish the bits they think will stir up trouble rather than the full story. I've been trying to find something more about this case using Google but there is surprisingly little real background in the reports. Whilst some of the reports I found say that the woman was associated with the business, none of them say that she was the licence holder for the stall - so she might well just be the employed by the licence holder to run the business. In that case the council would have no record of her as a licence holder and it was only by the chance of a previous complaint against her that the environmental health people had a record. I think that Dave has hit the nail on the head in saying that perhaps she ought to have not left the knife where it could be seen. Perhaps the police were over zealous in the long run but would that apply to the initial stop? The officers would have no way of knowing what was in her mind or why she had the knife where it could be seen - so perhaps over cautious is a more apt term? It looks like this fell down in the CPS office in preparation of the case. Even without recourse to the council it should have been easy enough to prove by observing the market and/or checking the employment records of the fast food business whether or not she actually worked on the stall. Having said that, though, we don't know the pressures on the CPS office and how much resource they had to devote to this individual case. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Hi, What I find more concering is that eveyone appears to assume that the Council/Police etc were wrong ?? WHY. I am not a police officer or a council offical but how about us trying to support them, knife crime is out of control and if stopping people and nicking them helps to slow it down then go for it ?. I am sorry but if you don't have a good reason for carring a knife or chose to not explain then I would nick you, if i was a police officer and i will support any police officer/council offical that takes that route, What i don't support is a police officer/council offical that thinks no i won't say or do anything as someone may complain and that may affect my job ?? So come on support your Police/Council they may not be perfect but don't undermine them at every junction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROON Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Hi Braunston, Not being antagonistic (honest) - just interested. What is your opinion then on a lone woman in a motor home (having read all about the assaults and break-ins that take place when people are in bed) that keeps a knife under the mattress? Again repeat not being antagonistic as so many threads seem to be misinterpretted at times.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 ROON - 2008-06-05 1:26 PM Hi Braunston, Not being antagonistic (honest) - just interested. What is your opinion then on a lone woman in a motor home (having read all about the assaults and break-ins that take place when people are in bed) that keeps a knife under the mattress? Again repeat not being antagonistic as so many threads seem to be misinterpretted at times.. Probably not considered a public place. But of course you'd be in a lot of trouble if you used it. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 ROON - 2008-06-05 1:26 PM Hi Braunston, Not being antagonistic (honest) - just interested. What is your opinion then on a lone woman in a motor home (having read all about the assaults and break-ins that take place when people are in bed) that keeps a knife under the mattress? Again repeat not being antagonistic as so many threads seem to be misinterpretted at times.. Continuing the theme, I don't intend to be antagonistic either. What strikes me, though, is that reports of assaults & break-ins seem to be connected with stopping overnight away from a recognised camp site. I would have thought that anyone - of either gender - who was concerned about being attacked would ensure that they only stayed on sites with reasonable levels of security. As it happens I just caught part of the Jeremy Vine Show on Radio 2 whilst out in the car. They were talking about knife crime/carrying knives and the point was made that carrying a knife does not necessarily prevent one being stabbed. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 malc d - 2008-06-05 2:02 PM ROON - 2008-06-05 1:26 PM Hi Braunston, Not being antagonistic (honest) - just interested. What is your opinion then on a lone woman in a motor home (having read all about the assaults and break-ins that take place when people are in bed) that keeps a knife under the mattress? Again repeat not being antagonistic as so many threads seem to be misinterpretted at times.. Probably not considered a public place. But of course you'd be in a lot of trouble if you used it. :-( Not only that but you would more than likely have it taken off you because you would hesitate to use it and then run the risk of having it used on you :-S you would be best having a bl...dy big walking stick that you could give them a good wolloping with and I dont know many women that would hesitate in using one!! But getting back to the lady with the knife in her car! if she was using it as a work tool WHY wasnt it in a safe container? you dont go carrying unsheathed knives about do you? there are too many people out there being stabbed and the most common thing they are using comes out of someones kitchen. I say book anyone carrying knives and if it just saves one life then I say GOOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopesy Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 A bit away from the original knife carrying question but in response to the carrying one in your motorhome under the mattress then you can defend yourself with reasonable force under sec 3 of the criminal law act which is what police officers use. Problems arise when it goes to trial 12 months or more down the line in a clean quiet courtroom with well educated barristers painting the picture of the incident in very black and white manner. You have to justify what you did was reasonable so if a lone female was being attacked in her own motorhome by some person armed with a screwdriver or worse in the dark shouting etc etc who's to say what was reasonable ( a jury hopefully) don't believe all the scare stories in the press especially express and mail they pick out the doom stories that sell papers. I read somewhere that a large proportion of people injured in attacks (this may have been in USA) were injured with the weapon they were carrying. Worth bearing in mind before going out "tooled up". *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Hi, I have already answered part of your question Quote I am sorry but if you don't have a good reason for carrying a knife or chose to not explain then I would nick you if i was a police officer and i will support any police officer/council official that takes that route, End Quote To answer the rest of your question, I believe your question is no different to a young kid carrying a knife who says he/she has only got it to defend themselves, which we all know results in too many cases where someone either the young kid or some one else being killed, I think you know my answer, Zero Tolerance i would nick both of them i.e. the woman on her own and the young kid for carrying an offensive weapon. I would like to make the point again support your Police/Council officials as anything else undermines them, please don't do that, they have a bloody thankless task at anytime without us supporting the media in slagging them off. They may not always be right but they are the best we have so support them. Hope that explains my position, if you want to vote for me i will let you know where to send you support donations ?? ROON - 2008-06-05 1:26 PM Hi Braunston, Not being antagonistic (honest) - just interested. What is your opinion then on a lone woman in a motor home (having read all about the assaults and break-ins that take place when people are in bed) that keeps a knife under the mattress? Again repeat not being antagonistic as so many threads seem to be misinterpretted at times.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Everyone should know that offensive weapons have always been carried. In my time Knuckle Dusters were in vogue, Razor blades sewn into the peaks of caps were another. Many carried them for bravado, nothing else. Serious crime is 95% less now than in the 1800's, it just gets publicised more and ..... most important of all ..... it sells media time. Turn the news off, don't buy a newspaper, ignore it all. LB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 When I think back, as a Boy Scout (not for very long I might add), I used to carry a sheath knife it was an accepted practise. I believe the hysteria now has just hyped up the situation and more knives are carried by 'stealth' due to this and the point is they are mainly standard everyday kitchen knives not the sort of 'Rambo' style ones you would imagine. I always carry a knife on my person when at home now, not for my protection but for use with our horses, there are sometimes situations where you need a knife instantly out in the field and have no time to obtain one from a storeroom or cupboard, so I could find myself in the same situation as the women who is subject of this story. Im my opinion it is just another instance of the law and society not using its brain or discretion and the usual problem of officious Police not using the little brainpower some of them have. Personally I look forward to an increase in violent crimes with the weapon of choice being a golf club and then perhaps they will ban them and the 'game' as well! (TIC) Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggyd Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 It beggers belief that in a week when a young school girl and last week 2 teenagers were stabbed to death that idiots can talk about HOW THEY USED TO CARRY KNIVES !! the difference is it was a different society then drugs werent the norm and yes you used to hear of Teddy Boys fighting now and again and using knives! but not like now! for the Lords sake get off your political soap boxes and admit WE have a big problem that the Police have got to sort with the help of ALL the Law abiding citizens of this Country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Basil & Others, why not ask the families of the people murdered with knives over the past few weeks whether or not the stories of knife crime are "hyped up. The carrying of an offensive weapon in a public place is rightly there and any civilised society needs laws like this. Sadly not everyone is a sane, reasonable, sober person who can have a rationable argument without lashing out. And if anyone wants to argue with the last sentence I'll see them round the bike sheds after skool! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Has anyone seen this mornings papers? On the "Knife Crime" debate in the House of Commons yesterday there were only 16/20 MPs in attendance, what does that tell us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donna miller Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Randonneur - 2008-06-06 9:54 AM Has anyone seen this mornings papers? On the "Knife Crime" debate in the House of Commons yesterday there were only 16/20 MPs in attendance, what does that tell us? That the papers dont know how to do proper fractions 16/20 should be 4/5 or 80 % :D seriously though, until the courts get tougher and dish out the sentences they have been advised to, then the knife culture will continue to spiral out of control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 donna miller - 2008-06-06 11:14 AM Randonneur - 2008-06-06 9:54 AM Has anyone seen this mornings papers? On the "Knife Crime" debate in the House of Commons yesterday there were only 16/20 MPs in attendance, what does that tell us? That the papers dont know how to do proper fractions 16/20 should be 4/5 or 80 % :D seriously though, until the courts get tougher and dish out the sentences they have been advised to, then the knife culture will continue to spiral out of control. My post wasn't intended to be a maths equation but 16 to 20 MPs in the House at the time. Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 maggyd - 2008-06-05 11:39 PM It beggers belief that in a week when a young school girl and last week 2 teenagers were stabbed to death that idiots can talk about HOW THEY USED TO CARRY KNIVES !! the difference is it was a different society then drugs werent the norm and yes you used to hear of Teddy Boys fighting now and again and using knives! but not like now! for the Lords sake get off your political soap boxes and admit WE have a big problem that the Police have got to sort with the help of ALL the Law abiding citizens of this Country. I cannot agree with some of this statement. firstly people not having the same point of view does not mean they are idiots any more than those having their point of view! Society is little different today, it is more that the news is in your face, I certainly saw severe fights between teddy boy's and greasers, mods and rockers, skin heads through the last 50 plus years (Margate, Southend-on-Sea and the East End of London to name a few) where all kinds of offensive weapons including knives have been in use, indeed I have lost a friend to such action also seen many injuries, those like myself tried to avoid such things and come through as most do now. Drugs have been about for centuries (take Opium for instance) and were certainly the norm and in regular use at venues and parties I used to attend the drugs of choice including marijauana and LSD amongst others, those of us who were not interested did not partake, the difference being the media did not report it. Anyone who does not realise this either had a sheltered upbringing or is suffering memory loss. The main difference now is that irresponsible parenting has allowed their offspring to have no boundaries and have not taught them respect so they do just as they like to whom ever they wish but lets not pretend that anything has changed other than the outlook of people involved and the media coverage. As usual just my opinion. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 "16/20 MPs in attendance, what does that tell us?" Simple, it was a nice day so they cluttered off to the seaside! C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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