grocer jack Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 This is a reply, on behalf of Boris, to a question I asked so long ago I can't remember what it was! But, however it gives some further information. As it looks like further implementation is due for review now is the time for asking for changes. I gues the only change likely to have any chance would be the charge itself. So, if you're bovvered, better start lobbying!! Dear Mr Murray I am in receipt of your correspondence relating to the Low Emissions Zone. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to you. The Mayor has confirmed that he wishes TfL to implement the next phase of the Low Emissions Zone (LEZ). From 7 July 2008 lorries over 3.5 tonnes and buses and coaches over 5 tonnes with more than nine seats must comply with the requirements of the LEZ. Full details of the LEZ can be obtained via the LEZ website, http://www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon or by calling TfL on 08456070009. However, the Mayor has announced that the plans to further extend the scheme to include heavy vans and minibuses from 2010, will be reviewed. The Mayor of London is responsible for setting transport policy in the Capital; therefore we are not in a position to rule out any future developments. I hope that this information is of help. Regards Helena Matuszak Enforcement Correspondence Investigations Officer Transport for London Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 Hi grocer jack Well, a respinse of sorts I guess. After your last post regards the LEZ I followed your example and e-mailed Boris - not had a reply or acknowledgement yet either. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 I've sent an e-mail to Boris tonight pleading the case of those who live in London even if he won't exempt other leisure vehicles. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Why on earth are you arguing with an initiative to improve the quality of the air we breathe? We live in London and I would like to see all old cars belching out filth of the road as well! I was lead to believe that there is a fix available for a few hundred quid to help make older vans compliant - So either cough up*-) , or get it down the breakers yard (the Chinese need the metal) Or am I missing something. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 JudgeMental - 2008-06-06 1:46 PM Why on earth are you arguing with an initiative to improve the quality of the air we breathe? We live in London and I would like to see all old cars belching out filth of the road as well! I was lead to believe that there is a fix available for a few hundred quid to help make older vans compliant - So either cough up*-) , or get it down the breakers yard (the Chinese need the metal) Or am I missing something. :-D You might be missing the fact that not everyone has " a few hundred quid" to spare. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livewire Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 JudgeMental - 2008-06-06 1:46 PM Why on earth are you arguing with an initiative to improve the quality of the air we breathe? We live in London and I would like to see all old cars belching out filth of the road as well! I was lead to believe that there is a fix available for a few hundred quid to help make older vans compliant - So either cough up*-) , or get it down the breakers yard (the Chinese need the metal) Or am I missing something. :-D Out of touch with real people.......like most judges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grocer jack Posted June 6, 2008 Author Share Posted June 6, 2008 JudgeMental - 2008-06-06 1:46 PM Why on earth are you arguing with an initiative to improve the quality of the air we breathe? We live in London and I would like to see all old cars belching out filth of the road as well! I was lead to believe that there is a fix available for a few hundred quid to help make older vans compliant - So either cough up*-) , or get it down the breakers yard (the Chinese need the metal) Or am I missing something. :-D Nothing wrong with the initiative, per se, I just find the "FINE" more than a little excessive. I don't live in the zone myself, nor do I intend visiting it, just doing my bit to curb the excessess of Jacks in Office who think it ok to raise money in the guise of a "GREEN" inititiatve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 JudgeMental - 2008-06-06 1:46 PM Why on earth are you arguing with an initiative to improve the quality of the air we breathe? We live in London and I would like to see all old cars belching out filth of the road as well! I was lead to believe that there is a fix available for a few hundred quid to help make older vans compliant - So either cough up*-) , or get it down the breakers yard (the Chinese need the metal) Or am I missing something. :-D I've copied below the two main paragraphs from my message to Boris. I'm "arguing" because of the retrospective effect as explained. From my (perhaps one could say biased) view it would be ideal if all vehicles which are used only for leisure purposes were to be exempt from the LEZ requirements. Because of their usage they travel far lower distances each year than similar vehicles used for commercial purposes and, therefore, produce far less emissions. However, I can understand the counter arguments which support the current position regarding applying the LEZ requirements. Where I do think there is an injustice, though, is that there is no exemption for people who live within the zone and purchased (what are now) non-compliant leisure vehicles well before the LEZ was mooted. I can see the validity of an argument which says that anyone purchasing such a vehicle after the LEZ started should be charged but it seems to me unjust that people who bought their vehicles beforehand should be faced with a measure which, in practical terms, is retrospective. These are people who committed no wrong when they purchased their vehicles but are now faced with high charges if they merely wish to drive from and to their homes on holiday. As regards the fixes available, from what I've read they cost several thousand pounds rather than a few hundred. I'd love to think you are right though as I'm sure many owners of older vehicles would be grateful for details of where fixes are available for a few hundred quid. Is it possible for you to post those details on the forum? Turning to your point about "old cars belching out filth" I have to admit that I'm rather bemused by the fact that the LEZ is aimed at diesel particulates only. Of course, the delegation of powers to the Mayor's Office prevents action by the Mayor against anything other than road traffic but it does seem strange that the former Mayor did not try harder to co-ordinate the strategy with central government to cover pollution from other vehicles and aircraft. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 JudgeMental - 2008-06-06 1:46 PM I was lead to believe that there is a fix available for a few hundred quid to help make older vans compliant - So either cough up*-) , or get it down the breakers yard (the Chinese need the metal) Or am I missing something. :-D Sorry Judge you have been missinformed, the current cost is between £2000 and £3000 that is the value of the quotes I have had, if it were only 'a few hundred' I might get it done, but then as I avoid London like the plague I probably wouldn't. Whilst the principle of clean air is admirable, the point is that the charge for the LEZ is disproportionate to the usage made by a motorhome that resides in the London area and when compared to say the German Umwelt charge (the German equivilent) is astronomic. What you are missing is that it is a retrospective charge and this is not something that we normally do in our society, hence why there is so much fuss about the retrospective VED increase. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 With regard to the "fix" for older diesels to enable them to comply with the LEZ, my near neighbour has a P reg black cab. He works in London and spent £2500 on the "fix" for his cab, as did many of his colleagues. It don't work ! He has disconnected the thing...as have many of his colleagues and continues his business in London as before. If anyone is thinking of this particular modification, then research it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 JudgeMental - 2008-06-06 1:46 PM Why on earth are you arguing with an initiative to improve the quality of the air we breathe? We live in London and I would like to see all old cars belching out filth of the road as well! I was lead to believe that there is a fix available for a few hundred quid to help make older vans compliant - So either cough up*-) , or get it down the breakers yard (the Chinese need the metal) Or am I missing something. :-D And, on top of the above comments (that a retrospective measure is unfair, an astronomical fine compared to, say, the german equivalent and costs nearer to £3000 to convert older vehicles) how will you benefit from the Lez when the prevailing winds will blow the clean(er) air eastwards and replace it with less clean air from the M4 corridor and the Heathrow flight path? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Looks like London/TfL are still giving environmental considerations more weight than any retrospective injustice. I just had a response to my message from a Customer Liaison Officer at TfL: Thank you for your email of 5 June 2008 addressed to Mayor Johnson regarding the Low Emission Zone (LEZ). As one of the Customer Liaison Officers your email has been referred to me from the mayor’s office for a response. The aim of the LEZ is to improve air quality in London by deterring the most individually polluting vehicles from driving in the area. Air pollution affects the quality of life of a large number of Londoners, especially those with respiratory and cardiovascular conditions. It was estimated that in 2005 some 1000 premature deaths and similar number of hospital admissions occurred due to poor air quality in London. The Mayor has confirmed that he wishes TfL to implement the next phase of the Low Emissions Zone (LEZ). From 7 July 2008 lorries over 3.5 tonnes and buses and coaches over 5 tonnes with more than nine seats must comply with the requirements of the LEZ. Full details of the LEZ can be obtained via the LEZ website, www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon or by calling TfL on 08456070009. However, the Mayor has announced that the plans to further extend the scheme to include heavy vans and minibuses from 2010, will be reviewed. The Mayor of London is responsible for setting transport policy in the Capital; therefore we are not in a position to rule out any future developments. Whilst I note your suggestions that TfL should exempt vehicles used for personal/leisure purposes this would defeat the objective of the LEZ. It would not be appropriate for TfL to distinguish between vehicles for commercial or personal use because no matter what their operational use, they still emit the same level of pollutants per kilometre travelled. It would also be unfair to other vehicle operators who have acted to ensure their vehicles comply with the LEZ. It is for this reason that the introduction of LEZ has been staggered to give people the opportunity to make the relevant amendments, or to replace their vehicles in the timeframe provided. Operators of vehicles which do not meet the specified emissions standards for the LEZ have several options to comply with the scheme including: Fitting particulate abatement equipment to the vehicle. It should be possible to fit such equipment to reduce a vehicle’s particulate matter emissions sufficiently to meet the LEZ emissions standard. Normally this would either be a particulate trap or a partial filter. Information on approved abatement equipment and suppliers for fitting such equipment can be found on TfL’s website at www.tfl.gov.uk/lezlondon, together with the processes for getting approved abatement equipment certified once fitted. Re-engine a vehicle with an engine that meets the LEZ emissions standards. Converting a vehicle to gas. Purchasing a newer vehicle that meets the LEZ emissions standards. Paying a daily charge. Transport for London always welcomes customer feedback. I will note your comments on our customer suggestions log which is periodically reviewed by our senior management. Thank you once again for taking the time to write. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Hi Graham Still haven't had my reply from the 'Mayor's' office. The guy who replied to yours has left one of the options off his list of what owners of vehicles affected by the LEZ can do - avoid London altogether! Regards, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJH Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 david lloyd - 2008-06-11 6:48 PM Hi Graham Still haven't had my reply from the 'Mayor's' office. The guy who replied to yours has left one of the options off his list of what owners of vehicles affected by the LEZ can do - avoid London altogether! Regards, David That's true David :-D Glad ours is compliant though because we do enjoy our January visits - and a heck of a lot easier to stay a few days in the van than a single overnight in a hotel :-D Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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