Derek Uzzell Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Problems with the duration of base-vehicle warranties relating to new Ford-based motorhomes were recently brought up on this forum. Research indicated that - as a reasonably reliable rule of thumb - if you are the first retail buyer of a Ford Transit-based motorhome sold in the UK, then (irrespective of the vehicle's technical specification) the duration of the Ford warranty should be 3 years commencing from the date of 'first retail' purchase. There is now evidence of anomalies with base-vehicle warranty durations for Renault-based motorhomes sold new in the UK, with some apparently attracting a 3-year warranty and others having just a 2-year one. Renault has also used the tired old "it is standard practice for the base-vehicle warranty to begin when the 'chassis' is supplied to the motorhome manufacturer" argument to explain why the Renault warranty on one motorhome had a start-date significantly before that vehicle was sold new in this country. It's often the case that a 'wonky' warranty will only be discovered when there's a base-vehicle warranty-related problem or the motorhome goes in for a service. This may be well after the motorhome was first bought, and the longer the interval between purchase and discovery the trickier it will be to get the matter sorted out. There is a temptation to think that this type of problem will only apply to motorhomes built outside the UK. While one might anticipate a higher likelihood that non-UK-built motorhomes bought in this country won't acquire the appropriate UK warranty duration, an 'early' warranty start-date could be incorrectly applied to any motorhome wherever its origin. So, if you've bought a new motorhome recently, or bought a new-ish 2ndhand one, then I strongly encourage you to check the terms, conditions and commencement-date of the base-vehicle warranty. One thing's certain - if your vehicle's warranty has been wrongly assigned, nobody will correct it for you without you taking an interest yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Derek, As you are no doubt aware, the Renault Trafic and Master vehicles are sold through two completely different distribution chains - Renault Cars (owned by Renault) and Renault Trucks (owned by Volvo). I believe the different warranty lengths are the result of this. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 7, 2008 Author Share Posted June 7, 2008 Mel: Yes, I'm aware of the Renault Cars/Renault Trucks thing and it may be that this has an impact. (Had a feeling I'd read somewhere that the normal 'Trucks' warranty was quite short (1 year?) but had unlimited mileage, while the 'Cars' warranty was longer (3 years in the UK?) but with an overall mileage restriction.) The examples I was given involved one Master-based motorhome having a 3-year base-vehicle warranty, but beginning when the 'chassis' was provided to the motorhome converter (several months before the vehicle was sold new in the UK), while another's warranty correctly commenced at the date of purchase in the UK but lasted only 2 years. Renault, as long as I can remember (and I've got a long memory), have always been a mite opaque (I was going to use the word "atrocious") when it comes to defining the terms, conditions and scope of their warranties, which makes it particularly important that buyers of Renault-based motorhomes check what they are getting. Trouble is, to check what one is getting, one needs to know what one ought to be getting and that information often doesn't seem to be readily available to motorhome purchasers. You've done Weights and Gas MMM articles - how about one on Warranties? That might be an eye-opener! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted June 7, 2008 Share Posted June 7, 2008 Derek, My Master was bought through Trucks, came with a one year, 125,000 mile warranty, but extended free for a further 60,000 miles and two years. It runs out of warranty at the end of this month (doesn't time fly?) and they are fixing two faults under warranty next week: the cigar lighter is shorting out and the hazard flasher is not working properly - probably a sticky relay. They are doing this without demurral, despite both items often being regarded as 'fair wear and tear' under many extended/ 3 year warranties. So I have no complaints. The starting point of warranties is a continuing issue. They should, of course, run from the date of first registration, but the problem is that there is no mechanism enabling Renault (or Fiat, etc.) to know when a body builder - be it a truck or motorhome conversion - is actually first registered. And each country's distributor is funded for warranty work on the basis of the number of trucks registered month by month. But the distributor's dealers advise the distributor of registrations because they need to do so to get their overrider discounts on sales volumes. As for an article - just writing this much has me nodding off . . . Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 Mel: I agree that it's not a very exciting subject, though it's peculiar that (based on motorhome-magazine test reports) it's apparently more important to motorcaravanners whether a 'van has a toilet-roll holder than whether the warranty durations are correctly stated! I'd produce a piece on this myself, but (as you may have gathered) I'm fixated on factual accuracy and it would take a lot of research to be sure of getting that. Besides which I can make much more cash knocking out novels for Mills and Boon than writing for MMM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob M Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I came onto this site for the first time last Sunday and read Mike Chapmans post (30 October 2007 ) Renault Master Warranty.It set alarm bells ringing. Monday morning I rang the number given (Renault Cars Customer Services/ 0800 0723372 ) they took my details confirmed that the base vehicle was delivered to the German motorhome builder on the 29th November 2005 and that they would get back to me. Shortly after I received a call from the U.K. Dealer who sold me the van new, he assured me the warranty was good and all I needed to do was take the registration document in to Renault when needing warranty work. The next call I received was from Renault, I explained the dealers conversation, not so said Renault, the dealer must pay for any warranty work. I am awaiting written confirmation from the dealer on this before naming names. The root of this problem : I walked into the dealers show room on the 14th October 2007, saw it bought it ( did not wait for one to be delivered in 2008, was told it would be dearer due to weakened pound ) it was not discounted, had extras and was £2177 more than the MMM price ( Buyers Guide from price). No sign said 2007 model and no paperwork states the year. I assumed that as it was taking pride of place in the showroom in was the latest thing. It was registered to me on the 3rd November 2007 and I took delivery on the 21st November 2007. 8 DAYS later on the 29th the 2 year service was due. I missed it,my warrantee is void ( 2 years + 1 year for imported vehicle ). I will not have a service history.I hope I do not need to sell it within 3 years and that nothing goes wrong on the Renault side. I have covered almost 6000 miles and it is very good. The editor of the owners club has been extremely helpful in contacting Germany but they are pointing at the U.K. dealer. I will keep you informed on the outcome. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Bob I have the same problem with a new Renault based Knaus. First registered in June 2007. I have just been trying to get the first service (not warranty work) organised and have been told that the vehicles warranty started in December 2006, six months before I took delivery so I have missed the first service window. Why don't the M/H dealers explain this on collection? To their credit they are trying to sort it out, but will not put anything in writing. The PDI does not appear in the service manual which is in German either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob M Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Hi John P According to my Renault maintenance service book (2005) Master 2.2, 2.5 and 3.0 dCi service is every 24,000 miles or every 2 years depending on which is reached first. You may have till Dec. 2008 for your 1st. service unless they have moved the goal posts since 2005. It appears you have lost 6 months of your warranty. I hope you read Mike Chapmans post on obtaining your 3rd year. A totally unbelievable situation we are in. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hol Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Hi, It seems to me that this is a dealer issue, rather than a Renault one. Many of the motorhome problems highlighted on this and other forums can be traced back to the dealer. They simply do not seem to care about their customers, unless it is to make another sale. After we had payed for our van, the salesman said that if there were any problems with the vehicle, we should contact Renault and not themselves. Obviously, I knew that as the supplier, they had a legal responsibility to deal with all aspects of the new motorhome, but if you insist on this, it is you that looses out. I refer to time consuming phone calls, journeys to and from the dealership and worst of all loosing your pride and joy for seemingly endless periods of time. I rang Renault cars regarding ours. I found them to be quite helpfull. Although it had been originally supplied by a German agent, Renault UK checked their database and gave me warranty cover from the date that it was first registered here, albeit for a period of two years. Mike Hol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 I think there may be a bit of confusion here. He who sells the van is legally responsible to his customer to supply a van that meets the normal requirements for usability. This is all Sale of Goods and Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Acts stuff. However, warranties are offered by all the manufacturers involved in motorhome fabrication, starting with the base vehicle (Renault, Ford, Fiat: whoever), but including the converter (Knaus, Swift, Rapido: whoever) and the suppliers of the various bits of kit contained in the van (Truma, Dometic, Thetford: whoever). A defect in a Thetford toilet may not be sufficient to allow you to sue the dealer for a defective motorhome, but if the dealer won't remedy the problem, or is unacceptably slow in doing so, you have recourse to Thetford under their warranty rather than having to try to sue the dealer.With base vehicle warranties, they have the advantage that, in general, they state what is, and is not covered, and it is far easier to take the defect to the relevant commercial garage then to lambast the motorhome dealer who has neither the facilities, skills nor authority to undertake the warranty work, and who, strictly, cannot call upon the base vehicle warranty, as they are not the registered owner of the vehicle.What Renault are saying, inconsistently, is that once a vehicle passes out of their hands, it is deemed sold to the end user and the warranty and service intervals all commence from that date, and not from when it is first registered. However, had the vehicle not been sold on, but merely sat in a field somewhere for the same amount of time as a Renault dealership's unsold stock, they would then warrant it from the date of first registration. Seen from this perspective, the illogicality of what they are (sometimes) saying, seems clear enough.Perhaps the contact details of the person at Renault (assuming these cases are not split between Trucks and Cars) who ruled on Mike Chapman's warranty, could be passed privately (via PM?) to those with the present problems, so that they can contact him/her directly and get some sense more generally injected into their warranty department? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hol Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Hi Brian, From a legal point of view, the dealer DOES have a responsibility for any defects that occur within a reasonable time, because the customers contract is with them, not with either the Base vehicle manufacturer, or the builder/converter. This was confirmed by using the free legal advice line as a member of the Camping and Caravanning Club. However, I agree that from a practical point of view, it might be best to deal directly with the other companies involved. In this particular case, Renault themselves, but the dealer should have at least made all the necessary arrangements, on the customers behalf, before the point of sale. I'm not sure wether dealing direct, without involving the dealer might incur any legal encuberance, in some cases? You are, of course, right that dealerships don't generally have the necessary people or skills to repair base vehicle defects. Indeed, in my experience, they don't necessarilly have the required skills to repair all defects on the habitation side, but I won't stray any further from the thead, in this respect. The two years of our Renault warranty has now expired. In four months time, we will have owned the motorhome for three years. During that time there hasn't been any problems that required involving Renault. Reliability has been second to none, so far. Mick H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handyman Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 these base makers really do talk rubbish. What if you bought a dvd player, and some parts (from a third party, lets say the laser) in it are say 6 months old when fitted to the player. The player is assembled in china, then, say 6 weeks to ship and distrubute in uk to currys, then theydont sell it for 4 months and then put in a sale and then its sold. Do the laser company, or sony say that bit is out of warrenty........no they dont, as the warranty starts from the date the final end user buys it. It doesnt matter if the bought item costs £30 or £60000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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