raw Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Whilst on holiday in Spain last week (unfortunately not in the camper van) I noticed motorists like to push & shove their way into parking spaces with no regard to any damage caused to other vehicles. So my question is does anyone know if I can fit bull bars to my camper van to protect the front (I have a tow bar at the back). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 welcome to the forum! "aggressive" Bull bars are illegal? to protect pedestrians and others? you can only fit the softer deformable style plastic ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 What! Like those nice soft fronts on the big lorries?? How about a stout bracket to support a couple of driving lights?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Clive .. where you been? Thought you'd gone off on holiday or summut, you've been so quiet! I am not a fan of bull bars as they can cause horrific injuries to pedestrian and even other vehicles and the people in them, however, if you do want to go ahead, it would help us point you in the right direction if we knew what van you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 From 25th May 2007, fitting bull-bars to vehicles such as 4x4s has become illegal. In a move to improve pedestrian and cyclists’ safety on the road, EU law dictates the sale and manufacture of protective metal frames was to stop. Farmers – for whom the idea was originally developed, now have to find alternative means of shielding the front of their vehicles from marauding cattle and rogue tree branches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 http://www.fwi.co.uk/Articles/2007/05/23/103858/bull-bars-banned.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Yiou have been reading the same website links as me Judge :-> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Brambles - 2008-06-23 11:20 PM Yiou have been reading the same website links as me Judge :-> Yes lol amongst others. I would not have posted if I had seen yours first :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 How about those who have tow bars fitted at the front (as well as the back) so as to be able to easily manouvre caravans backwards ? I have seen these at dealers at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Clive, you are not allowed to fit anything to the front of your vehicle which increases the risk of injury if you impact a pedestrian or cyclist. So no it is no longer allowed to fit a permanently fixed tow ball to the front. If it is removeable so pedestrians are still protected by the bumber then it would be OK. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetMice Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I don't like the idea of bull bars. Aren't modern vehicles required to include "crumple zones" that absorb the energy of impact to protect their occupants in accidents? This applies to cars I think, to vans too I hope. Because the crumple zone crumples on impact it acts like a buffer or concertina, you and the rest of your vehicle will decelerate more gradually in a crash. Occupants are to some extent cushioned by the crushing of the front end of the vehicle and are thus less likely to be seriously injured, and the passenger compartment and back end are less likely to deform into you too. Any rigid structure such as bull bars will protect your paintwork or lamps in a car-park bump but may completely block or nullify the life-saving effects of your crumple zone in a real shunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I wasn't going to post on this thread, but there now seems to be misleading info posted. I looked into this some months back with respect to 'A' frame fitments, the following is my interpretation of the law from what I have read as published by UK gov and EU, note I am not a lawyer nor proffess to be an expert on vehicle law, this is just my interpritation. The law concerning 'bull bars' seems to be quite specific regarding 'Frontal Protection Systems' and ignors any other items that might be bolted on the front of a vehicle, I also recall there being a weight limit to the type of vehicles that it applied to, but as I was looking at cars I didn't take much note of this. This seems to throw up some odd situations, i.e. those of us who have lived near US bases will know that americans like to fit plastic or similier covers to front of cars to prevent stone chips, unless these are tested they seem to be illegal, yet it appears prefectly legal to fit a badge holder or 'eyebolts' for 'A' frames as they are not 'Frontal Protection Systems'. Also note there is a company that claims to supply 'Bull Bars' or similier that meet the regs. Next to the more contentious? issue, if I was was hit and injured by a vehicle with non complient bull bars or 'A' frame eye bolts, I would sue the @rse off the driver for fitting an item to 'save a few bumps and scratchs' or to 'save driving on a trailer', but then I'm a contankerous sod and hold a grudge for a long while :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Interesting thread this ... As Colin would 'sue' the driver of a vehicle if he was injured due to it being fitted with unapproved bull bars, I wonder what the insurance implications would be? Woud you therefore not have any insurance to fall back on? If you intend to fit something like this it might be worth getting your insurance company's views on it first before gong ot the expense of having it done - you might save a few pounds on 'repairs' if your van is shunted as you suggest in Spain, but could cost you thousands if you then don't have insurance cover at all ... and we all know how thye like loopholes to crawl out from! 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 The problem is pedestrians. If they kept off the roads most of the percieved problems would be eliminated. My last landy had a stout factory fitted bull bar on the front, to this was bolted a couple of mounts for 20 foot long scaffold poles that were used as antenna mounts - for use when parked I hasten to add. Bull bar bolted to the chassis. Current car is all plastic at the front and bloody useless as some stupid woman in a Ford Focus tried to take me out on a roundabout last week. Her fault. If I still had a decent lump of metal on the front only she would have paid for her error. Grumpy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 "If you intend to fit something like this it might be worth getting your insurance company's views on it first before gong ot the expense of having it done " I don't mean to sound picky, but this is a bit of a nonsense statement (for want of a better phrase) because it has already been established it is now illegal to fit unapproved Bullbars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 "The problem is pedestrians. If they kept off the roads most of the percieved problems would be eliminated. " Does that include cyclists, or pedesrians minding their own business on a pavement when a car careers of the road and into them? Are you also going to, hand on heart, say you have never accidently walked out in front of a moving car and had a close shave. It happens, and it even happens in countries where Jay walking is an offence. So please, don't go blaming pedestrians for this. People walking were around long before cars and in my view have more right, in a way, to being afforded safety than drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Apologies all, the tone of my relplies is reflecting my bad mood tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Hi, Colin could you clarify your thread a little more am I correct in correct in my interpretation that there appears to be no regulation/law against fitting additional equipment to the front of your vehicle as long as its not a 'Frontal Protection System' and if this is correct then the fitting of badge bars, or bars to support extra spot lights, together with the mounting points for "A" frames etc. are not illegal ? Thanks colin - 2008-06-24 6:36 PM I wasn't going to post on this thread, but there now seems to be misleading info posted. I looked into this some months back with respect to 'A' frame fitments, the following is my interpretation of the law from what I have read as published by UK gov and EU, note I am not a lawyer nor proffess to be an expert on vehicle law, this is just my interpritation. The law concerning 'bull bars' seems to be quite specific regarding 'Frontal Protection Systems' and ignors any other items that might be bolted on the front of a vehicle, I also recall there being a weight limit to the type of vehicles that it applied to, but as I was looking at cars I didn't take much note of this. This seems to throw up some odd situations, i.e. those of us who have lived near US bases will know that americans like to fit plastic or similier covers to front of cars to prevent stone chips, unless these are tested they seem to be illegal, yet it appears prefectly legal to fit a badge holder or 'eyebolts' for 'A' frames as they are not 'Frontal Protection Systems'. Also note there is a company that claims to supply 'Bull Bars' or similier that meet the regs. Next to the more contentious? issue, if I was was hit and injured by a vehicle with non complient bull bars or 'A' frame eye bolts, I would sue the @rse off the driver for fitting an item to 'save a few bumps and scratchs' or to 'save driving on a trailer', but then I'm a contankerous sod and hold a grudge for a long while :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olley Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Hi found this: http://www.bullbar.nl/EUregulation.html Basically if your over 3,500kg it doesn't apply, from that link: Under the new rules, frontal protection systems for motor vehicles of class M1 (up to 8 persons) and N1 (goods up to 3,5 tonnes) Olley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 OOOooo Our next MH should be a 6.5 tonner!! (If it ever turns up) At a local club I once belonged to we had a talk by a senior local motorway traffic cop. His summary was "If you are involved in an accident you cannot beat metal". He drove a Police Volvo, most of the rest of the club drove Artics and tippers! Most drivers die in small cars. Even more on motorcycles. In a crunch the odds are much in favour of the heaviest. So I should be OK as a pedestrian at least! Don,t bite Brambles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 What is it you are getting Clive, 6.5 tonner sounds like one of these American type RV jobs? Sorry I was a bot OTT last night. Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raw Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 thanks to everyone who responded to my question on bullbars, your replies have given me lots to think about. My van is an autocruise starspirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 braunston - 2008-06-25 8:54 AM Hi, Colin could you clarify your thread a little more am I correct in correct in my interpretation that there appears to be no regulation/law against fitting additional equipment to the front of your vehicle as long as its not a 'Frontal Protection System' and if this is correct then the fitting of badge bars, or bars to support extra spot lights, together with the mounting points for "A" frames etc. are not illegal ? I would advise anyone considering bolting anything on front of vehicle to do their own checks, as, my memory is not what it once was and I may have misintrepritated what I read. Some time back (maybe last year) It occured to me that 'A' frame fittments might break laws that where introduced to ban bullbars, so I did an extensive search of UK and EU publications on the new laws, everything I read was quite specificly aimed at 'Frontal Protection Systems' which was the term used to cover bullbars and similier, I could not find any mention of 'badge bars' 'towing fitments' etc. but note there are other c&u regs regarding 'sharp edges' which any of these may contravene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Clive - 2008-06-25 1:48 PM OOOooo Our next MH should be a 6.5 tonner!! (If it ever turns up) At a local club I once belonged to we had a talk by a senior local motorway traffic cop. His summary was "If you are involved in an accident you cannot beat metal". He drove a Police Volvo, most of the rest of the club drove Artics and tippers! Most drivers die in small cars. Even more on motorcycles. In a crunch the odds are much in favour of the heaviest. So I should be OK as a pedestrian at least! Don,t bite Brambles. Depends how old the car is, on either 'topgear' or '5th gear' they crash tested a Volvo 960 around H reg offset headon against a Scenic? couple of years old, the Volvo lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 Hi Brambles, Glad the heads better !! The 6.5 tonner is we hope eventually some time in the forseable future, not to long away, after Dussledorf . . . . etc. N+B Flair 8000i with a BIG garage in the back,big double bed and more social space than we have been previously used to. The Garage is to carry our 2 motorbikes and the social space so the wife can show off a bit, sorry I mean so we are better placed to entertain friends! Engine 3 litre in an Iveco with a truck type chassis. We looked very closely at a big Frankia on a 5 tonne Merc with that V6 3 litre engine, beautiful, but no effective residual payload to make use of the garage the way we want. The other contenders (that the wife does not like) are Concorde and Cathargo, also on the same Iveco chassis but both are heavier so have less residual capacity. Planning application number 4 to build 6 houses on our plot is on the telegraph pole outside - again! I think you can work the rest out. Good luck C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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