Wilbury Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hi All, I have been completely put off any motorhome based on the Fiat chassis due to the well publicised failings and am therefore seeking an alternative. Mercedes are too expensive for me. Ford now share some parts from Fiat/ Peugeot I am told. That leads to Renault. Can anyone tell me of the pros and cons of this make of base chassis compared to Fiat please. Many Thanks Wilbury Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Wilbury - 2008-07-16 12:16 PM Ford now share some parts from Fiat/ Peugeot I am told. That leads to Renault. Yes indeed, Ford have the best bit...... The engine which was a joint venture and the 130 -140 BHP units are brilliant compared to their frankly agricultural predecessors. You need to try them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hi Wilbury, an old friend of mine who during most of his working life had his own garage, always had Mercedes. But his last two 'vans were Renault with no complaints. I had a Holdsworth Ranger for a long time on a Renault Trafic rear wheel drive, it was my favourite Motorhome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miami Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 We had an Autotrail Miami on the Renault Master 120 Auto. Excellent vehicle and it never went to the garage in the 18 months we had it. Would still have it now if we hadn't got fed up with trying to park it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 I have a Renault Master 150 based Knaus. Whatever you go for get the dealer to fully explain the chassis warranty. With Renault, if it is an imported van built in Europe you may be entitled to a three year warranty. Renault warranties usually start when the base vehicle leaves their factory. This can be changed to when you take delivery, but it means some work by the dealer and motorhome manufacturers. This is not usually made clear on delivery/handover of a new motorhome. You may have to push to get this information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usinmyknaus Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Have had my Renault Master 120 DCI with Quickshift6 autobox on platform cab chassis for 13 months and 9000 miles. It pulls the 3.5 tonnes of my Knaus well enough and handles extremely well compared to similar sized vehicles I have driven in the past. I very occasionally wish for more power but then the guardian angel on my shoulder just wispers "That would probably just get you into trouble quicker" or some such comment. So far the Renault has been flawless and averaged 29.55 mpg. The autobox copes well around town and coupled to cruise control is pretty much effortless on long runs. It reverses up my 1 in 8 driveway easily and thanks to the reversing camera, precise steering at low speed and extended door mirrors, I find it very easy to reverse into tight spaces. (The van is not huge, just 7 metres long by 2.3 metres wide.) On both legs of the Portsmouth Caen run recently I had to reverse several hundred yards along the quay, across the dock ramp, ships loading ramp and into the bowels of the ship, all of which was done very easily and without any drama or mechanical stress. Note that the autobox requires a different technique to mount levelling ramps on site as the clutch cannot be "slipped" and if insufficent revs are used the van will stay put, sulkily emiting smouldering smells followed by little bleeps of pain from the warning system. With a little practice one can employ what I can best describe as "gun it and go" which looks a little reckless but works. The standard cab seats are OK but if budget allowed I would have gone for better ones. The handbrake folds down to allow the seats to swivel and this integrates the cab with the body and we like the facility a lot. It also makes walking through from cab door to habitation area relatively easy too whilst the cab seats are in drive mode (as opposed to lounge mode). Being front wheel drive the van is vulnerable to getting stuck off road and adopting a prudent approach meant we only got stuck once in 13 months. We are always cautious though. A key problem I have in Surrey is finding a reliable Renault agent for annual servicing. Two messed me about - the first saying they could handle the size then turning me away after arrival, the second again saying they could do it properly then finishing suspiciously early and without having jacked the vehicle up.... but charging full price. They also grossly over-filled the steering fluid reservoir which made quite a mess. I have found another over the border in Hampshire - but some distance away - and will try them next time. Having had very bad experiences when purchasing the latest model of car in the past I deliberately went for the Renault over the Fiat and Ford because it had established a good track record and I found no adverse comment from "white van" forums regarding the trade's experience with the Quickshift6 box. Just seen JohnP's post. I got no help at all from the two dealers regarding the warranty issue. The attitude seemed to be "Well you didn't buy it from us". It's on my to do list with a call to Renault UK. JohnP makes a very important point about dates. I took delivery on 14 June but the warranty according to the Renault dealer started early April and if I had the van it serviced later than May, it could have affected the validity of the warranty. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cattwg Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Hi Wilbury, Our Monte Carlo is based on a long wheelbase Renault Master, 2.8 TD. It's a 2000 model and has now covered 80,000 miles. It has been serviced regularly. We bought it second hand 4 years ago, over this period it has taken us to Nord Kapp and Southern Italy with very many places in between. We have had no problems whatsoever. Oh heck, am I tempting fate - where's the plank to touch wood!!!!!!! We did get stuck once in deep mud in Spain after a downpour - but I understand that all front wheel drive vehicles are prone to this. I have never owned a Fiat based camper so cannot comment on them. Regards Cattwg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Wilbury - 2008-07-16 12:16 PM Hi All, I have been completely put off any motorhome based on the Fiat chassis due to the well publicised failings and am therefore seeking an alternative. Mercedes are too expensive for me. Ford now share some parts from Fiat/ Peugeot I am told. That leads to Renault. Can anyone tell me of the pros and cons of this make of base chassis compared to Fiat please. Many Thanks Wilbury Fiat is far better. I looked at both at the start of this year and if you go for Renault based vans you are really restricted with your choice, the Fiat also drives better. All new vehicles have problems but the Fiat is now two years old and early problems seem to have been cured, you will note the lack of recent complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 The answer the the initial question is without doubt Renault - for proven durability. But there are others Mercedes, Ford VW for example who are all streets ahead of Sevel when it comes to proven durability and quality of build. Some motorhomes are starting to be built on Toyota bases as well. Its your cash spend it wisely. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Re the Ford Transit, don't forget this comes in two versions, FWD and RWD. Either can provide a satisfactory base for a motorhome, so I would be inclined to consider the Ford as well as the Renault. Considering present motorhome availability, admitting the Transit to your pool will greatly increase choice compared to the Renault alone.The transit is a reasonably civilised drive, quiet for a van, light steering, and a reasonably slick gearchange. Brakes are good. The suspension is more compliant than the Fiat, and the ride overall, I gather, somewhat better.We had the previous model Fiat under our last van, and the Transit is superior to that in all respects, except a certain proneness to stall. It is also much more fuel efficient, giving us just under 30MPG compared to the Fiat's 25MPG. Our Transit is claimed to yield 130HP, whereas our particular Fiat was rated at 146HP. All I can say is Henry's horses are a lot livelier, and appear far stronger, than the breed used by Fiat! Its one peccadillo, referred to above, is that is a combination of abrupt accelerator response, a slightly sharp clutch, and an engine cut off if the revs fall below 600rpm, sometimes makes it tricky to get rolling without a stall. However, this does seem to ease as the bits bed in, and no doubt as your technique adapts.I would be a bit inclined to look for vans with short rear overhangs on the FWD Transit chassis, or look for the RWD chassis if you want good manoeuvrability. The reason is that the longer overhang, coupled with those 130 lively horses, results in quite strong rearwards weight transfer on take-off, with a degree of FWD wheel scrabbling and some very strong torque steer, especially on hill starts, but even on the odd hairpin taken in second gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Our new van is on a FIAT 130 chassis and engine and drives like a dream, it reverses fine, with the cruise control set at 65 and in 6th gear it bowls along quite nicely thanks. I do have to change down on long steep hills but so what, I'm not in a race! I haven't had any experience of Renault vehicles, but the guy opposite me has a late 05 Renault Traffic long wheel base van for his business and says he wouldn't have another if the gave them away. Problems with the gear box, fuel pump and being ripped of at the dealers for servicing and repairs has put him off. His other vehicle is a 2007 Ford van and he has nothing but praise for that particular model. I don't know anything about the spec though, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itexuk Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Fiat every time, had no problems with my 2007 Multi jet 130 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 talbut me ansums, long live talbut!!!!! f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Ref my original post. (This can be changed to when you take delivery, but it means some work by the dealer and motorhome manufacturers.) The dealer is the motorhome dealer and not the Renault agent/garage. I had to submit a copy of the "Log Book" which was forwarded to Knaus. They then contacted Renault Europe who changed the start date of the warranty by approx six months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 Fiat vs. Renault I find Fiat to be a little sharper on handling, but the Renault a much more comfatable ride due to adjustment of driving position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 From the replies Wilbury you will see that all have a differant answer to your question based on what they drive, including me. I would say look at road tests and what are voted the best vans and base, no contest Fiat all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I have been away for a month, have I missed an announcement from Fiat about a definate fix and recall for the 'Juddering/clutch damage/Gearbox damage/ in Reverse up an incline ' ?? no-one else seems to have heard anything, where did you hear it Rupert ? The (not so) New Fiat X250 certainly handles very nicely and is comfortable to drive, but until 'the reversing charactaristic' is fixed I would not touch one. The Renault Master is very good AND is reliable in the long term. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 My preferance is for Merc although the garage that MOT,d ours today said that later Mercs are not built so well as those of 10 years back (like ours) Transit offers a lot for your buck and are quieter, FWD gives a lower floor but RWD puts the drive where it should be - under the load. Spares are cheap as well. All vans have improved and the Fiat I must admit corners like its on rails, but I do not trust Sevel to get it right. They have proven time and time again that when they cure one problem they generate another with the "improved" later model. We have to look at IVECO for our next MH and its a bit of a black hole as not a lot is said about them. One sticking point for me is that it must NOT have a belt driven camshaft. We have had 2 fail in vehicles, both inside the change mileage and one with catastrofic results. Some Transits have chain driven camshafts as do Merc and the 3 litre lump used by several base providers including Renault and Iveco. VW still have a belt. The change mileage quoted for new vehicles for the cam belt is much increased but us motorhomers don,t tend to do lots of miles and belts need changing on a time basis as well. Chains don't and they run in oil. Lots to think about. Loads of dosh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob M Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Hi Clive, Owned a Iveco 2.8 lt based Laika for 4 years with 6 speed ZF box, no problems except noise from engine, had the belt changed at 5 years age but in very good condition so should have waited for mileage to approach 35,000 plus. The 3 lt may be quieter due to advances in diesel engines, the ZF boxs are great, had them in cars I owned in the sixties. You cannot beat a double roller chain, the Iveco was the first vehicle I have owned with a belt and I dislike them. Hi Wilury, Changed the Iveco for Renault Master 3lt Dethleffs last Nov.2007 manual box and I think its great and will be surprised if it gives trouble. FWD caught me out on a farm in March but farmers tractor sorted that out and they do supply a screw in eye/bolt for those occasions. In my experience you will not get help from Renault UK in respect of the warranty but from reads on this site some people do. If your buying new and it is a German motorhome the Renault base vehicle will have started its warranty on the day it arrived in my case at Dethleffs. I took delivery on the 21/11/2007 of a brand new!! registered vehicle. Early this year I drove into a Renault garage because the window wiper rubbers where breaking up on the edges, they ran a VIN check and told me the base vehicle was delivered to Germany on the 29/11/2005 and that was when the warranty started. 8 days after I took delivery the first service (2 year) was due. I am still waiting for the dealer to rectify the warranty and believe he will. My warranty problem is very long but I believe all Renaults coming via Germany suffer with this problem to a lesser degree. You could join the owners club of your chosen M/H, supply them with the VIN and they could check it out.!! After all that go for Renault but proceed with caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan D Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 We have a Renault Lunar 07 reg and have travelled through France, Spain and Portugal with no problems. The ride is good, the Isri seats are excellent and the engine is fast yet quiet and economical. The `star` is however the automatic 6 speed gearbox, it is an absolute delight. We live adjacent to 2 very large dealers and we test drove the lot. We would not touch a Fiat with a Gondola pole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapple Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 rupert123 - 2008-07-16 6:10 PM Wilbury - 2008-07-16 12:16 PM Hi All, I have been completely put off any motorhome based on the Fiat chassis due to the well publicised failings and am therefore seeking an alternative. Mercedes are too expensive for me. Ford now share some parts from Fiat/ Peugeot I am told. That leads to Renault. Can anyone tell me of the pros and cons of this make of base chassis compared to Fiat please. Many Thanks Wilbury Fiat is far better. I looked at both at the start of this year and if you go for Renault based vans you are really restricted with your choice, the Fiat also drives better. All new vehicles have problems but the Fiat is now two years old and early problems seem to have been cured, you will note the lack of recent complaints. I must strongly disagree. My last two MHs were on the older type Boxer and the Master. The older van (MWB Boxer 3300kg) had a choppy harsh ride which was very sensitive to tyre pressure. Everything inside rattled and clanged when the tyre pressure were too hard and was only marginally better when the pressure were correct. It was an unpleasant ride. The new van (LWB Master 3500kg) has a much quieter ,smoother, more comfortable and pleasant ride. Its slightly more economical and has the possibility of an semi-auto gearbox (only available in the Boxer with the 3 litre engine). It doesn't leak water all over the engine, it doesn't judder in reverse, it doesn't have the ugly last minute (so it seems) added on clumsy, completely unnecessary front extension and it has a wonderful 6 pseed semi auto gearbox...... but..... it is narrower. Marks for the Boxer 5/10, marks for the master 8/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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