Reversing Judder

[Elliot]

I would like to invite Fiat or Peugeot to answer the issues that have been raised about on this website in a number of threads about vehicles based on the Sevel chassis.

 

We all know you have very large research departments who read websites and periodicals world wide on a daily basis to find out what is going on in the market place.

Just two points

 

The owners want to know when you will fix their vans so they can go backwards

 

The potential customers want to know when it will be safe to buy your vans again and have full confidence they will go backwards

 

[Elliot]

The next questions must be answered is by the Dealers

 

How long will you continue to sell these vehicles that judder when they go backwards?

 

Will you pay the full market trade in price for a vehicle with this problem because at the moment it doesn’t really exist?

 

What will you do if a customer who you sell a van to comes back and clearly demonstrates it judders? Will you say it is normal operation?

 

Then let’s ask the Convertors

 

Why are you continuing to convert chassis that judder when they go backwards?

 

You can all place your answers on any thread on this website concerned with this problem all of them if you prefer or even in MMM or even put a letter in the Times, not fussed, this goes for the vehicle manufactures as well. We all just want answers so come on stop running away from it

 

 

 

[saruman]

hi the article in the latest mmm is very intresting if the reversing judder is not resolved when the new fiats become second hand stock in the future surly this will put people off buying them i might looking soon to upgrade my swift and is a worry

 

ray

[Guest Tracker]

I was away and missed any comment or postings - but did anyone note the lack of comment in the recent Caravan Club (clue in the name) Design and Drive Awards?

 

Not much point in looking to that club for any support methinks?

[fred grant]

inside then tracker?

 

f

[Guest Tracker]

fred grant - 2008-08-01 8:23 PM

 

inside then tracker?

 

f

 

No Fred - outside mostly.

[fred grant]

tracker, they is called the desine and drive awards, not the practical and reversin awards. so its no surprise that judderin is not mentioned my biddy. when was the last time you went out for a test drive (car or motorhome - or lawn mower cum to think of it) did you think to reverse it as part of the drive. probably never, as your normally thinking and concentrating on other things.

 

well i suppose those inside places doo ev outside bits me ansum, exercise yards us thinks they call em.

 

finkinfred

[saruman]

hi what is fiats current stance is it to rev it a bit more? *-)

 

ray

[PSHORT]

I have just received what is the usual letter from Fiat following the obligatory

test by a Fiat agent. " we recommend you rev to 1300rpm when reversing which will reduce the vibration" (they admit it exists- what speed would we be doing at 1300rpm in reverse) "The dealership has been unable to determine a manufacturer fault and therefore are unable to complete a repair" Does this indicate they admit a design fault?

Murvi Morello(lovely lovely van, didn't like the Merc version, wonder how Renault

would convert when we are due to replace-if we can of course)

[yeti]

It's happened to me this week on a site near Great Harwood. Whilst trying to reverse onto a pitch the van gave a wonderful impersonation of a destroyer 'making smoke' Juddering was unbelievable. I left it on site for the week and when I came to move it today the clutch pedal was to the floor and the clutch was slipping severely.

It also 'thumps' on start up.

I am going to write to Auto-trail this weekend,I feel that a perfectly good conversions reputation is being jepordised by this fault.

My vehicle is an Auto-Trail Scout on the Maxi 6-speed 3l engine.

My previous motohome was a Hymer 544 on a Ducato 2.5TD which I drove for 16 years and put 90.000 on it with never a moments trouble.

The new van is 2 months old with just 300 on the clock!!!

There is a lot of anger about this issue,especially when you have just spent £60k on your dream vehicle!

 

[SAS]

It`s definately going to affect the second hand market and I think it`s already doing it. Walking around Spinney Motorhomes and Brownhills I`ve never seen so many `new` second hand Fiat vehicles for sale. I`m under the impression that the problem is worse than we think.

[Elliot]

Please do not post on this thread any more because Colin said you can't.

[Rayjsj]

Who's Colin ?? *-) *-) and can he walk backwards up a hill without falling over ??

 

Lets keep as many threads on this going,for as long as possible AND current until it gets FIXED. (I'm not saying that we all start new ones,)

It is a fundamental and Damaging problem,in more ways than two. :D

[PSHORT]

Perhaps whilst we are all waiting for FIAT to act in a manner fitting for a major company we should ask them to issue a certificate to all existing and new owners of the vehicle stating "this vehicle is NOT CAPABLE of reversing in conditions that all OTHER vehicles on the road can do" In an embarrassing situation this would take the heat off us. One is afterall supplied by Towtal so I believe in the event of being questioned by the law in Europe

[saruman]

hi is there any signs off this in the commercial van sector ?or is it just sevel vans?

 

ray (?)

[AndyStothert]

The vans are doing it too. All over Europe. But with ownership and usage patterns being so different very few van owners are that bothered by the odd judder. Or cluch failure. Or gearbox even. Only when long term analysis of reliablity etc is considered by fleet managers will this particular problem become as readily apparent as it has to a small band of private owners such as us.

The problem with such a long running saga as this is that the same questions arise time and time again. Being such a crap typist means I'm spending hours on this whilst I could be more gainfully employed watching footie or pouring wine down my throat.

[david lloyd]

Hi Ray

 

The term 'Sevel' vans is referring to vans made in the factory in Sevel and includes the Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer and Citroen Relay. All are basically the same vehicle and will be used for motohomes and commercial chassis'.

 

The problem is, do drivers of 'commercial' variants bother (or even care) if there is a judder when reversing? If not then there will be few(er) complaints to Fiat et al about the issues that motorhome users are reporting.

 

David

[david lloyd]

AndyStothert - 2008-08-06 5:13 PM

 

The problem with such a long running saga as this is that the same questions arise time and time again. Being such a crap typist means I'm spending hours on this whilst I could be more gainfully employed watching footie or pouring wine down my throat.

 

..............or taking excellent photographs and writing up places to visit that are accessible by a motorhome that can reverse uphill, or on wet grass, if required.

 

We're on your side Andy.

 

David

[saruman]

hi thanks for reply andy :-D perhaps if i test drive one ill find the nearest hill to reverse up

 

(lol)

 

ray

 

thanks

[Elliot]

Probably one reason we don’t hear a lot from the commercial side is Fiat have it cornered. I would imagine most of the vehicles are on lease so when one falls over it is replaced and no more said.

[fred grant]

there aint that many owner drivers out there my biddies, and most will buy transits and mercs etc anyway as they are more reliable and have better service.

 

fourgonfred

[Mel B]

Hey Andy

 

If you get bored whilst lounging around throwing wine down your neck, you could think about doing a new feature called ... "So many roads ... all flat ones!" (lol) ;-)

[Derek Uzzell]

What has surprised me about this problem, right from Square One, is not so much that the vibration defect is present in current model SEVEL vehicles (though that's pretty strange), but that so many owners of affected Ducatos/Boxers/Relays seemed to be astonished at the negative reaction of Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen when it came to addressing and correcting the fault.

 

I can understand owners being aggrieved, furious, peeved, gone ballistic, sorrowful, disheartened, etc. but I honestly can't see why anyone should be surprised. The Mercedes, Ford and VW vehicle brands have always had a good customer-care reputation (deserved or otherwise) to live up to, while Fiat (in particular) has always had a bad reputation for customer care and has always seemed happy to live down to it.

 

When I began motorcaravanning about 10 years ago I deliberately chose to cross any vehicle that was SEVEL-based off my shopping-list. Eventually I whittled down the list so that just a Ford-based Herald Templar remained and eventually located one being advertised at a local dealership. During conversation with the dealer I admitted my antipathy to Fiats and he said "Well, I think Fiat motors are great, the general engineering is OK and Fiat-based motorhomes drive really well." "It's not the vehicles themselves that concern me." I replied. "It's my perception of what would happen if I got into a dispute with Fiat over something I thought should reasonably be considered their responsibility." "Ah," said the dealer, "you've got me there - and you'd be right to be concerned as, in cases like that, Fiat are total ********."

 

Just my Doom and Gloom thought for the day...

[Guest Tracker]

Conversely Derek I have had many thousands of totally trouble free motoring with numerous Talbot Express and Peugeot Boxer based vans, ans now my Fiat Tracker, both petrol and diesel since 1984 and in my view they are fairly well made, very durable and fit for purpose.

Never having bought a new van and never having had any warranty issues I have never had the need to sample Fiat's legendary customer care.

However on the very few occasions that I did need to contact a Peugeot dealer I was unsurprised to find their levels of customer care competing with Fiat for the wooden spoon.

Out of warranty I use a local garage where I not only get good service and advice I save money too.

My point is that maybe I have just been plain lucky but I reckon the old model Ducato/Boxer, although not by any means perfect, to be a pretty good base vehicle at a sensible price.

When Fiat do get their fingers out of their bums and get the new model fully sorted I suspect that it too will become a darned fine base vehicle for many years to come - meanwhile it ain't - so I won't buy buy one and I waste no opportunity of telling anyone who will listen - usually other customers at motorhome dealers when we are browsing.