Goldcoaster Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 I am comtemplating buying a 3 litre Ducato with the MTA (Manual Transmission Automated) auto transmission. I would very much welcome any advise as to whether vehicles fitted with this transmission are suffering from any reverse Judder. Thanks,Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Goldcoaster - 2008-07-25 10:53 AM I am comtemplating buying a 3 litre Ducato with the MTA (Manual Transmission Automated) auto transmission. I would very much welcome any advise as to whether vehicles fitted with this transmission are suffering from any reverse Judder. Thanks,Bill[/quote No problems reported with auto but I have a manual and that does not judder either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Don't know but I have asked on another thread if I can put this system in my 3.0litre 160 manual and rid myself of the juddering and the clutch. Has anyone any idea of cost if and when my patience finally runs out with Fiat. Has anyone got answers for both of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 All the reports in magazines about this version I have read have all stated that there is no sign of a judder. But the fuel consumption is higher than the 130 and 160 manual versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcoaster Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 Hi Tomo 3090, From what I can find out the Fiat Auto still uses a clutch - not a Torque converter like most autos - and if this is the case- Why would the electronically/computer operated/servo etc.??? be able to use the clutch in a fashion that reduces Judder, when we mere mortals with millions (collectively) of stop/starts between us not be able to perform the same miracle? Like most owners with the problem, I had tried minimum revs, moderate revs and 1500+ revs in an effort to overcome it. This is a pretty poor way of having to drive. I have seen it claimed that fuel consumption on the 3 litre is not affected, and, if there is no energy lost by having a Torque Converter, this should be correct. I would love to hear from an owner of an Auto. Regards,Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 There are several owners "on the dark side" >:-) where you have also posted, best PM them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcoaster Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 Thanks Colin Cheers,Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 PSHORT - 2008-07-25 4:40 PM Don't know but I have asked on another thread if I can put this system in my 3.0litre 160 manual and rid myself of the juddering and the clutch. Has anyone any idea of cost if and when my patience finally runs out with Fiat. Has anyone got answers for both of us? Since these vehicles are new, and under warranty, the only sensible way to get an answer will be to contact a major Fiat commercial workshop and ask them if it can be done. However, even if it is possible, I suspect the cost would be greater than trading the Fiat against a new van of different make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 PSHORT: I doubt if a Fiat agent (or anyone else for that matter) will be in a position to provide a realistic estimate of the cost of changing from a manual gearbox to an automatic. It's not just the gearbox/clutch that would be involved, but also the electronic and mechanical control mechanisms and (quite likely) an altered engine mapping. I expect it's possible to make the swap, but it's bound to be eye-wateringly expensive for a private individual to have done. Besides which, you'd end up with a 'mongrel' that no motorhome manufacturer in their right mind would offer a warranty on. If you find it impossible to live with your present motorhome's antics and (as seems increasingly likely) Fiat can't or won't offer a cure, then I'm certain you'd be better off just exchanging the vehicle for one with a factory-fitted automatic 'box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSHORT Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Many thanks for both replies. My problem is we love the van and had all the goodies we wanted fitted(eg gasless,cruise,Airide etc) so the loss on changing would be more then normal. Plus the fact that I will never buy another Fiat product. As a previous contributor has said this is how Fiat will act on future problems on all their future vehicles. MURVI MORELLO 160 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofo Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 seeing the probs with these gearboxes and the reports that the auto dosnt appear to have them just wondering with the manual is the problem when reversing people are riding the clutch(clutch slightly depressed) while the auto fully releases whatever happens sorry just a thought i will get my coat :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 tofo: According to the piece in the CC magazine about Fiat juddering, the problem shows itself when the vehicle is reversing under load with the clutch fully 'home'. There can be no doubt that, if you perform this exercise as thus stated and also limit the vehicle's speed by keeping the engine revs low, if the load is progressively increased the transmission will begin to react harshly and the motor will eventually stall. 'Slipping' the clutch, to keep the engine revs up and the vehicle's speed down, may reduce drive-train reaction to an acceptable level, but, if lots of revs are being used and a lot of load is involved, then the clutch will rapidly start to overheat. This is basic stuff that every driver instinctively recognises and it will be true for any vehicle. The intriguing thing is really not that Ducatos with auto-boxes are judder-free, but that manual-gearbox Ducatos with an (apparently) identical mechanical specification are claimed to display a 'judder factor' ranging from nil to unbearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcoaster Posted July 31, 2008 Author Share Posted July 31, 2008 The Auto MUST have a different mechanical configeration to the manual. Would be lovely to get some info and maybe an exploded picture of the internals! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 youve hit the nut on the head my biddy. exploded? that be one way to sort it out i suppose. but will it be sorted under warranty - or would the smell of dynamite be a bit of a givaway?? fireworksfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 Bill did you find and PM auto owners "on the dark side"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldcoaster Posted August 1, 2008 Author Share Posted August 1, 2008 Hi Colin, I didn't have any luck in that regard. There are a few autos coming on road over here , but it is a bit early to get any feed back. Strangely, the converters are getting the first vehicles, and the commercial users (white vans) and private buyers won't see them for another couple of months. Cheers.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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