Towing A Car (Advice Please)

[Derek Uzzell]

I've no knowledge of German law regarding A-frame car-towing, but (according to French motorhome magazines) the practice is strictly forbidden in France for French-registered 'tow-vehicles'. However, the attraction of towing a small car behind a motorhome remains and a recent innovation involves an Aixam micro-car and a dedicated un-braked trailer (called a "Bissonnette City") on which to perch it. The concept is a tad bizarre, with the car's rear lights being exploited, rather than the trailer itself carrying lights. For anyone interested, there are descriptions and photos on:

 

http://www.labissonnette.fr

[david lloyd]

Rod & Sue - 2008-07-30 7:17 PM

 

Hi and thanx for all the advice we have been given, but when we bought the A Frame, I asked if it was legal to to a Peugiot 106 behind a motorhome and was told it would be fine as long as we never used it in Germany as their law would nat accept it.

Looks like we need a small trailer and re sell the A Frame.

Thanx again ALL :-|

 

Hi Rod

 

It's unfortunate but most of us when contemplating a purchase think we are asking the right questions and are assured by salespeople that they know what they are talking about when giving the answers. It's only when we ask on such forums as this that we find there are many other questions to be asked and answered!

 

However, I would still favour using an A-frame to tow your 106 (in preference to a trailer) but go for the braked variety.

 

You don't say where you bought the A-frame from but if it is a reputable company like Car-A-Tow I'm sure they would take the unbraked frame back against a braked version once you explain.

 

David

 

 

[chatterdog]

I think you will also find that it is not legal to tow a vehicle on an 'A' frame in Spain.

[watsoa]

I have no first hand experience of this but I was told by somebody that if you are towing with an A frame in Spain, the police will stop you and insist that the towed vehicle is disconnected. Better make sure there are 2 drivers in the motorhome if you are in this situation

Alan W

[Brian Kirby]

Rod & Sue - 2008-07-30 7:17 PM Hi and thanx for all the advice we have been given, but when we bought the A Frame, I asked if it was legal to to a Peugiot 106 behind a motorhome and was told it would be fine as long as we never used it in Germany as their law would nat accept it. Looks like we need a small trailer and re sell the A Frame. Thanx again ALL :-|

If you bought the A frame new, from its manufacturer, and you told them when buying that you intended towing a Pug 106 and, based on that information, they advised you the unbraked flavour was legal, return the item to the seller and claim a full refund because they are quite wrong!  Failing that, see if you can get it swapped at full value against a braked A frame.  If they won't agree either, go to Trading Standards and seek their advice - you were misinformed by the seller when you bought, and that misinformation influenced your decision to buy, so you become entitled to reject the item and get its cost reimbursed in full.

If you bought privately, unless the seller was a solicitor (so could have been assumed to be giving reliable legal advice), I think you will have to do as you say, and try to sell it on.

However, you now know one very important thing you didn't know before.  Your unbraked A frame is not legal to use with any car since, as all cars have brakes, whatever their MAM, those brakes must operate if the car is towed as a trailer - and your A frame doesn't do this.  The unbraked A frame is only legal for moving cars under very strict conditions governing speed and distance.  It may be of use to someone in the motor trade for recovery purposes, but not to any one-else.  I suspect that little fact will make it very difficult to sell and, because you now know it isn't legal for general use, trying to sell it yourself could put you in a very difficult position legally.

Therefore, I just hope you bought this new and can return it for a full refund, or only paid a nominal sum which you can afford to write off.  I hope!

[Rod Sue]

Hi Yes we did buy iy new from a company called G.M.V from Manchester, They advertise on Ebay so we bought it because they were offering free postage so I rang them up and asked the question about it being OK to tow a Pug 106 behind a motorhome, it cost me £120. They have no mention of braked A frames, so where can I purchase one of them from?

Thanx again for all this valid info :-D

[colin]

CAR RECOVERY A FRAME TOWING DOLLY DIRECT FROM GMV

 

Thats what it's listed as, and thats what it is.

 

[catinou]

We used to use a trailer but had to pay for storage as we had no room at home and it was a hassle when we were on site too. We have now got an A frame fitted to our Smart car and tow it behind the MH. Very easy to assemble and un assemble and the tow part folds down and fits in the bag supplied. Our insurance companies are aware that this is how we tow and apart from a small adjustment to the Smart car insurance (Norwich Union) they have no problem with it.

 

Towtal from Stoke fitted the system ( we would certainly recommend them) and we are having the Brake Buddy fitted next weekend. The brake buddy had to come from America, where it is widely used and legal in all States. It is a box like device that is placed in the footwell in front of the driver's seat, with a "clamp" fitted to the brake pedal. This turns the car into a braked trailer and therefore legal (I know!!!!Now I'll be for it! ;-) )

 

If by any mischance the car separated from the MH the brakes would automatically be applied to stop it - you carry a type of wireless "thing" in the MH - as well as applying the brakes as required throughout the journey. Also the Brake Buddy can be used in any vehicle and "belongs" neither to the Smart car nor the Motorhome.

 

The cost for the A frame and Brake Buddy comes to about the same as we paid for our trailer on ebay but we are saving storage fees, time and towing an extra 1,000 kgs - the weight of the trailer. We have had our rear view camera screen adjusted to be used as a rear view mirror so we can see it behind us as we travel.

 

Good luck with your search and we'll let you know how we get on after our trip at the end of next month with the complete rig - to Italy via, Channel tunnel, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germanyand Austria. B-)

[takeaflight]

Hi Catinou

might be wrong but the Brake Buddy is not legal in the UK due to the trailer brakes should not be opperated electricly.

Before parting with any money might be worth checking, oh and not with the vendors.

 

Roy

[catinou]

Thanks Roy, will do :-S

 

Jenny

[catinou]

My internet search so far has found the following from another MH forum - with a quote from the DOT which I will print out when I can get on a PC (no printer with this laptop!) Personally I think it answers all our questions aboutour towing arrangements but, each to his / her own. ;-)

 

http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/motorhome-chat/996-brake-buddy-frame-hgv-licence-5.html

[takeaflight]

Hi I notice that post came from a dealer !

 

However IMHO whatever you decide get it in writing from your car and motorhome insurance that they are OK with the AFrame and Brake Buddy and go and have a great time (lol)

 

Roy

[catinou]

will do thanks B-) will also check the DOT info quoted in the post.

[vicwo]

Hi Jenny I have a trailer for my Smart in the garage and have used it a fair bit in France. Being the only one able, the trailer got to be a pain .The last two stints in France i have used the buddy and it is amazing. Set up for the correct weight of the Smart it works when its needed. Without any sudden braking you can aproach roundabouts with the buddy not activating. Brake a little sharpe and it can almost stop my 7m van.

The only thing i miss about the trailer is being in control when reversing, that said my back is so much more rested. Plan well ahead driving and taking the car off may be rare.

Sorry i posted this in your private box but i get sick of the idiots who think they know everything.

 

Vic ps almost 10 years with Smarts i know some stuff if you get stuck.

 

[vicwo]

That was not a dig at Roy by the way he made a valid comment. A frame debate goes on forever and i dont know why we all get stuck in.

[PSHORT]

Not wishing to bring in the current Fiat problems here other than

I would still like to know if anyone with a new Fiat based van had any trouble or for

that matter total success devoid of problems

with their clutch whilst towing via a trailer or A-Frame.

[Mel E]

colin - 2008-07-31 8:38 PM

 

CAR RECOVERY A FRAME TOWING DOLLY DIRECT FROM GMV

 

Thats what it's listed as, and thats what it is.

 

Colin is correct. Unbraked A-frames can be used to recover broken-down vehicles BUT ONLY to a garage for repairs, and at a maximum speed of 40mph on motorways and 20mph on all other roads. Under all other circumstances they are illegal.

 

Mel E

====

[catinou]

Hi Vic, thanks for that info. Most reassuring (lol) we are just counting the days until we go now - 25 (!) (!)

 

As I suffer from arthritis, most of the heavy work goes to my husband so I can only echo your thoughts - we agree on what apears to be a simple operation - load car, strap down and go...... :-S

 

Thanks for the offer of advice re Smart car , we could well be talking in the future....... B-)

 

Jenny

[djchapple]

Many people forget to check the gross train weight of their MH, several MHs have a ludicrously small allowance for the vehicle to be towed.

 

The vehicle manufactures seem to set strange limits at times.

[Wingpete]

I have happily towed a Brian James enclosed trailer for few years now, taking either big m/bike or small car in it, firstky with Ducato 2.8 jtd, now with the new Fiat 3 ltr on Alko. Tow hitch is purpose made by Alko.

No qualms at all in using them, no clutch problems with new Rapido.

It pulls like a train, cruise works fine, up mountains and down again, backing into tight spots a doddle. Positive enough ?

[Mel E]

Rod & Sue,

 

You cannot sell the frame on because it is useless except to a motor trader for recovery purposes. What you can do is:

 

1. Write to the supplier stating that the device is not fit for the purpose intended and described and is illegal for that purpose and asking for a full refund on return of the item.

 

2. If he refuses or ignores your letter, write again stating that if he does not give a full refund you will place the matter before a Court.

 

3. Take your claim to the Small Claims Court. The process is very easy and you can get all the info you need from:

 

http://tinyurl.com/z3qft

 

If you lose, you pay only the initial submission cost (depends on the amount being climed - you are allowed to add in your costs such as travel, phone, etc.). When you win, the defendant pays your costs, their own and the claim. It'll probably cost you less than advertising the thing even were you to lose.

 

Mel E

====

[Brian Kirby]

I agree with Mel, but would add that persuasion will be quicker and cheaper than the courts route unless the supplier absolutely refuses to co-operate.  There are standardised fees for issuing the summons etc, and these should rigorously be added to your costs, otherwise, even if you win, you'll end up paying them!  If judgement is given against the supplier, but he still refuses to pay, the court won't pursue the debt, but will pursue you for their costs (at least this was the case a few years back).  You have the right to call in the court Bailiffs to recover goods to the value etc, but you have to do this, it is not automatic.  The Bailiffs charge, so you have to remember to add their costs to the sum you are claiming.  Provided you remember all of this, you should get all your costs, and your original outlay, returned.  However, it does take a while, with statutory waiting periods between the various steps.  Nevertheless, as Mel says it is quite straightforward, and only requires you to keep good records, be a bit organised with your administration, and remember that nothing happens until you initiate it!