HymerVan Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 I am thinking of becoming a "reverse tugger" i.e towing a Smart Car behind my Hymer Van 522 (based on a medium wheenbase Ford Transit MkV). Has anyone any experience of doing this behind a small(ish) motorhome. In particular I am keen to have any information on :- 1. Affect of driveability on MH. 2. Affect of insurance on MH. 3. Affect on Fuel consumption of MH. 4. How easy/expensive is it to get a towbar fitted. I realise that there are manufacturers of trailers geared specifically to the Smart Car but any comments regarding trailers or Smart Cars generally would be appreciated. Thanks in anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vicwo Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Its party time folks :-) :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w1ntersun Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Hi, I looked at buying the van you have but rejected it on its towing capacity. Its only 1000kg. you will be able to tow a smart on an a-frame but if you put it on a trailer you will be exceeding the towing limit of the van. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 HymerVan: I believe Hymer's Van 522 model is actually based on a Ford Transit Mk 6 (100PS or 125PS 2.0litre motor) or Mk 7 (110PS or 130PS 2.2litre motor, or very recently a 140PS version). Personally, I'd be wary of towing a Smart (or anything reasonably heavy) behind a FWD Transit-based coachbuilt motorhome. I've always felt that the high 1st-gear fitted to these Transit chassis makes them intrinsically unsuitable for heavier motorhome conversions, causing them to be tricky to get off the line cleanly and making starting on steep hills a worrying exercise for mechanically sympathetic drivers wishing to protect the longevity of their vehicles' clutches. I definitely wouldn't want to tow with my long wheelbase Hobby and I'd be even less keen with a medium wheelbase, rear garage design like Van 522. So, regarding driveability while towing, I think you'd need to beware of potential traction difficulties and clutch-damage vulnerability. I can't advise on your insurance/fuel questions as I don't tow and just pour fuel into the Hobby without ever bothering to calculate its consumption. In view of the platform-cab chassis used on these FWD motorhomes, I did wonder initially whether it was physically possible to add a tow-bar to 'Van'-type designs where the floor of the rear garage was dropped below the level of the original chassis. However, I note from Hymer's January 2007 brochure that a tow-bar was offered as a factory option for the 522. I don't know if the cost (£767) indicates that the tow-bar is 'special' or just reflects Hymer's pricing policy. Worth talking to a Hymer specialist about this as ground-clearance beneath the tow-bar structure might be limited. There has been plenty of previous 'lively' general forum discussion about towing a car with a motorhome, but the following link is to a thread that is Smart-relevant and may be helpful: http://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=10892&posts=28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 HymerVan - 2008-08-11 8:41 AM Hi, I can't answer your question from a factual point of view as I have never towed, But in answer to some of your questions:- Insurance for cars fitted with an "A" frame for being towed behind a motorhome can apparently be obtained from "Comfort" I also believe it would be a good idea if you were to go along this route to also insure the motorhome with them, so if any problems arise you hopefully can let the same insurance deal with the whole problem. Extra Fuel consumption probably depends more on how you drive, but from what i have extracted from previous thread it would appear you need to add something like 2/3 mpg extra. The tow bar on my motorhome cost nearly £800 obviously you can get cheaper but if you have an ALKO chassis apparently you must get an approved tow-bar if its still under warranty, its worth checking ?? The driving ?? never towed anything so can't coment, other than to say that some people have said that cars with "A" frames fitted are more stable ?? than what I don't know ?? Hope that helps I am thinking of becoming a "reverse tugger" i.e towing a Smart Car behind my Hymer Van 522 (based on a medium wheenbase Ford Transit MkV). Has anyone any experience of doing this behind a small(ish) motorhome. In particular I am keen to have any information on :- 1. Affect of driveability on MH. 2. Affect of insurance on MH. 3. Affect on Fuel consumption of MH. 4. How easy/expensive is it to get a towbar fitted. I realise that there are manufacturers of trailers geared specifically to the Smart Car but any comments regarding trailers or Smart Cars generally would be appreciated. Thanks in anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I read an article recently from Mercedes which says you should never tow a Smart Car more than 10 miles unless on a trailer and never at more than 30mph. I toyed with the idea of pulling one myself until reading this and decided to go for a Citreon C1 instead which is a cracking little car,similar weight to a smart but has 4 seats rather than 2. I saw it at the Lincoln show and an exhibitor there called Towbars2towcars sourced the car for us, fitted the A frame, rewired the van 7pin to a 13 pin and fit a mini computor system to the towcar which operates all the cars lights and brakes when towing. They also gave me a very good p/ex on the wifes car and she now uses the tow car as a runabout-ie 2 birds with 1 stone. You just tell Graham what you want ie new or used, 3 door or 5 door, colour, spec, and he does the rest. You can get it as a Citreon, Peugeot or a Toyota-it's all the same car and comes with CD, Electric Windows etc as standard. BUT the main attraction with this car is group 1 insurance, 60mpg and £35 per year road tax! So far can't knock it it goes like a dream and I can hardly feel it when towing Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 HymerVan - 2008-08-11 8:41 AM I am thinking of becoming a "reverse tugger" i.e towing a Smart Car behind my Hymer Van 522 (based on a medium wheenbase Ford Transit MkV). Has anyone any experience of doing this behind a small(ish) motorhome. In particular I am keen to have any information on :- 1. Affect of driveability on MH. 2. Affect of insurance on MH. 3. Affect on Fuel consumption of MH. 4. How easy/expensive is it to get a towbar fitted. I realise that there are manufacturers of trailers geared specifically to the Smart Car but any comments regarding trailers or Smart Cars generally would be appreciated. Thanks in anticipation. I would suggest you check the gross train weight for the FWD Transit, because I think a Smarty on a trailer may been too much.I would also suggest you look for either a RWD variant based on a transit, or at least a LWB Transit based van. The nice big rear boots on these vans are, like almost everything else about motorhomes, just a bit of an illusion. Yes, you can pile tons of stuff into them, but once you have although you may not have overloaded the rear axle (which on the Transit has quite a good payload), because all the weight is behind said rear axle, it all comes off the front. Not good for traction. If you then add to the gross train weight with a trailer, meaning more inertia to accelerate, and to the back axle load with your trailer noseweight, you'll get spectacular wheelspin and not much progress, especially uphill! I think you'll need to look outside the Hymer/Hobby/Knaus/Dethleffs camps, though. Benimar? Liaka? Pilote? The power is adequate, and the Ford engine is very lively, but I think I'd be inclined to look for a RWD 2.4 litre Transit as the ideal base vehicle to tow a Smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 A follow-up to Mike B's posting... A link to the website of the "Towbars2towcars" company he mentions is: http://tow-bars2tow-cars.com/ and there's forum discussion about the product on: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-46870.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Derek Uzzell - 2008-08-13 9:19 AM A follow-up to Mike B's posting... A link to the website of the "Towbars2towcars" company he mentions is: http://tow-bars2tow-cars.com/ and there's forum discussion about the product on: http://www.motorhomefacts.com/ftopic-46870.html I don't really understand why this company do not supply and fit the kit to your own car and insist on only supplying the complete package, then in my case anyway seem incapable of supplying a car. I have spoken to them a few times now as I liked the look of the set up as no metal sticks out the front of vehicle like some other A frame set ups. But the technical information on web site is nonexistent, and I don't want to be buying something based on hearsay and a telephone conversion. When I explained that I wanted a car now (for my daughter to learn) and have it converted next year when I change the van, I was told no problem and they would try and source a car for me but I am still waiting. Other then being offered a Cat D? accident repaired job which I was not interested in *-) So thinking of a smart again....does any one know the weight of a smart car? I think the C1 types are approx 900kg a lot of smarts are semi or auto, how would they cope with A frame towing.....I suppose you just put them in neutral? but I really need a manual for my daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HymerVan Posted August 18, 2008 Author Share Posted August 18, 2008 Current Smart Pure brochure says 750K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potjoe Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 (?) Think of it this way if they supply the"car" they also make more money as well, i ask this Q to him at Newbury show this year Y do you have to supply car! reply was well we are in it to some money .Thank you by for now said I and walked of. PS:The price he said was £1500 fitted plus the car . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 So you think they should be "in it" to just provide a service and not "make money"? D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Hi Judge, Welcome back. Our Smart car weighs in at 750kg and we have recently had an Aframe fitted by Towtal. 2 weeks ago had the brake buddy system sorted as well and are looking forward to Italy - in 9 days! To tow we just hitch A frame to 2 eyes on front of car, fit the brake buddy to the brake pedal, put in neutral with handbrake off, take brake buddy "remote monitor" into MH, lock up and go. (After checking lights etc. of course!) *-) My OH has just "scavenged" an old tow board to mount the 2 red triangles and obligatory red & white board for use when towing. It is fixed with his own brackets to 2 screw in towing eyes on the rear of the Smart - very neat and completely legal. The lights work from the usual plug in electric socket and the brakes work via the BB when the MH brakes are applied, with a light showing on the "remote monitor" when Smart's brakes are being used. Hope this helps :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Thanks Jenny! how does the rig behave on the road does the smart create much drag? suppose on long hills you will notice it.... Did you not get a braked A frame? why a brake buddy? and if you don't mind...what sort of price was it. You will love Italy, 30-33 deg, great food, friendly people....... It is so grim here with the weather and all...roll on retirement :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry1956 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Hi all, started to tow a smart this year after selling the quad bike, as the hymer is france I was unable to get a smart car trailer which was a pity, so ended up with an ifor williams transporter trailer with an all up weight of 1400kg, we have a smart cabrio which weights in at 805kg, watch out newer smart cars weigh more then older models, so what have I found after towing over 3000 miles, with this rig. fuel is up, but I balance this my using the smart more once I have picked a site for the hymer and trailer, I don,t used campsites just motorhome stop overs and these need a bit of care re size of bays etc, the smart car is just great for getting around thoe I would not wish to have it as an only car, the hymer runs out of puff at times, but it deals with the weight well most of the time,I will be exchanging the steel ramps of the trailer for alloy ones next year to cut down on weight. I took the whole rig to the weigh bridge to get the tickets and it was well under the total plated weight of the hymer which is 5200kg all up. The rear axle weight was ok. Yes it would of been nice to have a smaller trailer, but i could not get the paperwork needed for a smart trailer, I take a bit more care of routes being taken, speeds etc and overrall find that the smart was a good move over the quad allowing us to park up longer and use the smart to cover an area in detail. terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Not a Smart car but we frequently tow a 2 axle trailer with a couple of motorbikes and a couple of commercial gazebo,s inside. We find that because your speed is limited to 60 MPH on motorways and 50 MPH on single carriageways and that we would normally whaz along a tad quicker without the trailer that the economy remains unaffected behind a Merc based Autotrail Scout. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Hi Judge, OH drives most of the time while I navigate and translate road signs / speed limits etc. - we used a Brian James trailer last year but it was a bit of a pain on sites and a bit difficult for me to help with, due to arthritic fingers and back. Also, it cost several hundred pounds to store in a field with limited access each year as our drive would not accomodate it. We sold the trailer and OH says he was well aware of the trailer and Smart - I believe the trailer weighed in at just over 1,000 kgs - especially on take off although our beloved MH coped really well with the hills etc. to Lake Garda last September. He cannot tell the Smart is there now - so much so that he has had the reversing camera screen rewired so he can have it switched on as we travel forwards, to use as a rear view mirror and he can then see the car. We went for the A frame recommended by Towtal - they said they fit about 5 per week to Smart cars - which gave us only the 2 "eyes" at the front of the car. The brake buddy is an item we can take and use in any vehicle which has been wired to plug in (just by the footwell) - cost for A frame £420, cost for brake buddy £699 (I think). If we ever sell the Smart it is easy to leave the A Frame parts on and take the brake buddy if we don't want the hassle (& cost) of having it taken off. I am delighted to hear it is nice weather in Italy and will raise a glass ( or 2) to you when we get there. Jenny B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Hi, I know I quoted Comfort for insurance for a vehicle fitted with an "A" frame but having never used them or towed, I was wondering if any one actaully has seen the insurance documents and do they specifically itemise the "A" frame and the type of cover you have when towing ??? Any information on insurance for both the motorhome and the car when being towed using an "A" frame would be apreciated as we are thinking of having an "A" frame fitted to our small car Thank you Braunston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 catinou - 2008-08-20 4:25 PM We went for the A frame recommended by Towtal - they said they fit about 5 per week to Smart cars - which gave us only the 2 "eyes" at the front of the car. The brake buddy is an item we can take and use in any vehicle which has been wired to plug in (just by the footwell) - cost for A frame £420, cost for brake buddy £699 (I think). If we ever sell the Smart it is easy to leave the A Frame parts on and take the brake buddy if we don't want the hassle (& cost) of having it taken off. I am delighted to hear it is nice weather in Italy and will raise a glass ( or 2) to you when we get there. Jenny B-) Thanks Jenny. I still don't understand why you did not get a braked A frame and then surely there would be no need for a "brake buddy" the smart is only 750 kg after all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 How would a braked A frame work Judge? as it doesn't have any wheels. A braked trailer, yes. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 peter - 2008-08-22 12:36 AM How would a braked A frame work Judge? as it doesn't have any wheels. A braked trailer, yes. (?) I am not sure, but I thought the BRAKED A frame had a cable attached to cars brakes and braked all 4 wheels... works a bit like a caravan the cars servo is of as engine not running but I think they claim 50% efficiency....... but the engine is of with "brake buddy" as well so I just don't see the advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike B. Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 davenewell@home - 2008-08-18 7:45 PM So you think they should be "in it" to just provide a service and not "make money"? D. Of course they're in it to make money and why not? It is a business to them not a hobby. I did a deal with him and am well satisfied with the car, A frame and the whole kit and caboodle-the price was good and the p/ex better than anyone elses offer-what more can you ask for? Mike B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hi Judge I asked OH and he says his decision was based on several things: The type of A frame fitted looks much neater than the braked ones we had seen; he didn't want holes drilled through the vehicle to hook on to the brake pedal, as we had demonstrated to us by one supplier; he had read reports of the brake cable snatching and wearing in transit. The brake buddy sensitivity can be adjusted to suit the terrain - if you know you are going travel in a very hilly area you can change it to suit before you set off. You also have a remote type device in the MH cab which shows a red light every time the car brakes are applied. You therefore know for sure that the brakes are working and can be readily alerted if the sensitivity needs adjusting. i.e. if the brakes are appliying too often, or not enough. Hope that is a bit clearer - I just like the "cute" little unit ;-) Jenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hi Braunston, We have MH insured with Safeguard and Smart car with Norwich Union. There was an extra charge by Norwich Union - about £24 p.a. I think - as the car is classified as "modified", Safeguard just said to remember the car would be 3rd party insurance only (which didn't really matter as NU gives us comprehensive cover anyway - even when being towed). B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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