Champstar Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Would you believe it....June this year had a full habitation service done by dealer...£200...last week will on our 3 week holidays in north of Scotland...first the water pump seized....managed to get this replaced at a friendly caravan dealer in Elgin at a reasonable price...now everything to do with the water works as it should...I now have eletric flush on my wc whereas it didnt work very often...seems a non return valve was either missing or faulty. Question: as I am just out of warranty and have asked the dealer to check the wc flush before and they said I had to prime the system...but no good if all water then drained back into tank!!!!.....Do I have a case to claim the cost back of new pump from them. Second point: 2 days from end of holiday the gas part of the fridge wouldnt work.....seemed to get an overgassing as if the burner was blocked. Upon getting home tried to get somone to look at it but can get nothing for 3 weeks. A friend told me to try blowing air through the burner to try and unblock it...so I 1. unscrewed the shield from the burner and unscrewd the burner from the flue but left it attached to the gas supply(which was turned off) so as not to disturb the jet. 2. Cleaned the burner with a cotton bud and some methonol and finally used the air line from my tyre inflator to blow air through the burner. 3. Allowed the methanol to dry the reconnected the burner to the flue assembly and hey presto it ignited and so I left it on for an hour or so and the fridge started cooling. Do any of you techies out there think what I have done is ok and safe to use the fridge now. cheers Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wints Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Hi graeme my recommendation is remove the jet (it's easy) and carefully clean the tiny hole in it with a pin, there may be a tiny (very tiny, I use a magnifying glass) bit of dirt there. Also, put some sort of brush (flue brush or cloth tied to coat hanger wire) up and down the flue. The muck that comes out of there will surprise you. Done this a few times and fridge on gas is really cooking ! regards Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrytraveller Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Hi Graeme, Seems you've done a grand job on the repairs and service, you will find advice about the Fridge on Brians site, hopefully it will confirm that what you have done is good and safe - link http://www.ourwanderer.org/wan6.htm#RM4200/10 refers. If you spend some time on Brians site you will find loads of info about Habitation servicing including items about the water system. I always do my own servicing, as I find it difficult to trust the bigger companies, they seem to fix one fault and put on two more :'( One man bands are always the better bet for getting work done, especially the ones on this forum :-) Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 Graeme: It's hard to attempt an answer to your first question without an intimate knowledge of 2006 Lunar Champs - and I don't have that. The explanation you've apparently been given for why your Champ's toilet used not to flush reliably ("a non return valve was either missing or faulty") suggests that the water pump is 'submersible'. This type of pump is located within the motorhome's water-tank and is normally quieter and significantly less expensive than a 'diaphragm' pump. However, submersible pumps (or at least the cheaper ones) tend to be less dependable, and most of them seriously dislike being run 'dry' as they rely on the water around them and flowing through them to cool their electric motor. Modern submerged pumps will normally self-prime, but a non-return valve is needed in the water system (the valve is usually integrated into, or attached to, the pump itself) to prevent water draining back into the tank. If there's no valve, or the valve is faulty, there will be a delayed reaction between a tap being opened (or a toilet being flushed) as, before water can be delivered to the tap or toilet, the pump first needs to prime itself and replace the water that's drained back into the tank. In his book "The Motorcaravan Manual" John Wickersaham says: "In view of the 'throw-away' nature of the less expensive submersible pumps, owners whose water system relies on one of these units know the wisdom of always carrying a spare". If your water pump had failed while your Champ was still under warranty, then I assume the motorhome dealer who sold you the vehicle wouldn't have argued over replacing the pump. As it is, the pump has packed up outside the warranty period and you've had it replaced by a caravan dealer handy to where you were staying, so I guess there's no legal obligation for your motorhome dealer to refund the repair costs. On the face of it, it sounds like you were given the brush-off by your motorhome dealership as to why your toilet wasn't flushing originally, but that depends on exactly what was said. Even if we assume there's always been a missing/defective non-return valve in your Champ's water system, it doesn't necessarily follow that this would result in the water pump seizing. Habitation servicing is like the MOT test: things that are working OK when the service/test is carried out can fail immediately afterwards and there's no way of predicting whether or not this will happen. You say that the Elgin caravan dealership's charge for replacing the pump was reasonable, but you don't say how much that charge was. If the cost was really low, then your motorhome dealership may be happy to give you a refund as a goodwill gesture as you've had the vehicle serviced there and they'll want you to keep on doing so. If the charge was, say, £100+, the dealership may be less keen! Irrespective of the eventual outcome, you should definitely bring the water pump failure to the attention of your dealer, emphasising (in a pleasant and diplomatic manner!!) that they recently serviced your Champ's habitation side. And it would certainly do no harm to suggest that they refund, or contribute towards, the cost of the replacement pump (or, perhaps, offer you a discount on the next service). If you don't ask, you won't get. I seriously doubt that there's any profit in you seeking recompense legally (I'm not sure exactly what your "Do I have a case to claim the cost back of new pump from them" question implies), but, if that's what you have in mind, then you'll need to begin by writing to your motorhome dealer, stating why you believe they are liable, and demanding that they pay up. On to your 2nd query... Habitation servicing usually doesn't include servicing the refrigerator, as the labour costs can be high if the fridge installation makes access difficult. As long as the motorhome owner hasn't said there's a problem and the fridge is functioning OK when the habitation service is carried out, then that's normally good enough. What you've done to revive your fridge is pretty much what I used to do with my Herald when a 'clinker' used to drop from the gas-flue into the burner-assembly beneath. As far as I'm concerned, if you are confident you've used common-sense care, then there's no reason to believe your fridge will be unsafe to use on gas. You haven't said what the gas flame looked like after you had managed to get the gas to relight, but I expect you checked it was burning nice and cleanly before putting the burner-shield back on. Your motorhome is two years old and, if the refrigerator has been used a fair amount on gas and hasn't had any attention (other than yours) during that time, then the fridge would probably benefit from having a 'proper' service that included its flue being swept. If this isn't done and (as seems near certain) the recent problem resulted from the gas burner being obstructed by debris, then you may well need to repeat your cleaning exercise in the near future. My Herald motorhome was 8 years old when I sold it and I'd owned it for 6 years. During that time the fridge had never been professionally serviced and I had needed to clean out debris from the burner perhaps twice. It appears that some fridges will satisfactorily keep on keeping on with minimal attention to their gas system, while (based on forum comments) others are very demanding when it comes to regular gas flue/burner cleaning. And, as often seems to be the case nowadays, it's the newer high-tech models that are likely to be pickier than the old stagers. Allen: I hesitate to criticise your advice to clean a fridge's gas-jet by poking something through it (however carefully one does it), but, if the jet is in any way fouled, best practice is always to replace it as the aperture-size is critical. Jet replacement would normally be part of a 'full' fridge service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champstar Posted August 15, 2008 Author Share Posted August 15, 2008 Thanks to all who have replied....The flame from the burner was a nice clean blue colour..so I assume that all will be well...I am loathed to touch the jet so I didnt...as I suspect that was not the problem. When we got the Champ new and used the fridge on gas for the first time the vent at the top melted as the jet was wrong...or so I was told..this was replaced under warranty....but due to this I was unsure if I had did anything wrong and needed reassurance...thanx. Will try the fridge on an overnight trip this weekend..fingers crossed. On the second point about the water pump..I dont think my dealer..(the largest in Scotland!!) will be accommadating..but I will try. A thought...I did have a problem with the electric water heater and the element need replacing...I wonder if this was due to the water draining from the tank due to the non-existent non-return valve and the thermal cut out being fried on numerous occasions...might be worth pointing this out. Also any other champ owners..check for that elusive valve!!!! Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champstar Posted August 17, 2008 Author Share Posted August 17, 2008 Just back from a quick overnight wildcamp to test the fridge out...it worked really well....just like new and it did not melt the wall vents!!!!...result cheers all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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