First Aid Kits on the Continent

[Chucky]

Hi All .............. I'm told that in France & Spain, the first aid kit that we must all carry (along with warning triangles, bulbs and vis vests) must comply to DIN 13164, can anybody confirm this and does anybody know where can we can obtain one reasonably priced

[Derek Uzzell]

My understanding is that a first-aid kit is recommended but NOT mandatory when motoring in France or Spain.

[sailor girl]

We just got a whole load of stuff for travelling in Europe from Halfords. I'm pretty sure that the first aid kit is the one you're after.

 

Liz

[fred grant]

in an emergency the bit you want from a 1st aide box is never there me ansums (like wen freds tractor chopped a bit of is little finger off). so u is best makin up your own box to suit your own or anyone elses requirements. best take a trip to medicine-u-like and put a decent kit together. dont have to be in a box my biddies. with a motorhome theres always endless cubby oles for the essentials.

 

flyingdoctorfred

[Derek Uzzell]

While Fred's advice is valid - if you make up your own kit, then at least you'll know what's in it - there are European countries (Austria, Croatia, Germany, etc.) where the motoring regulations demand that you carry a first aid kit in your vehicle and, in such cases, it's probable that the kit should conform to the DIN-13164 standard Chucky mentions.

 

GOOGLE-ing on 'pages from the UK' using the search term "DIN 13164 first aid kit" retrieves details of potential UK suppliers. This is a link to one of these:

 

http://www.motorcycle-uk.com/acatalog/Carry_On_Your_Bike_First_Aid_Kits.html

 

and I've copied from it contents-details of a DIN-13164-compliant kit should one choose to make up one's own:

 

1 x Adhesive Tape 5m x 2.5m

8 x First Aid Dressings 10cm x 6cm

3 x Standard Dressings, Medium

1 x Standard Dressing, Large

2 x Burn Dressings, 40cm x 60cm

1 x Burn Dressing, 60cm x 80cm

2 x Conforming Bandages, 6cm x 4m

3 x Conforming Bandages, 8cm x 4m

1 x Emergency Blanket

6 x Wound Dressings 10cm x 10cm

2 x Triangular Bandages

1 x Pair of First Aid Scissors

4 x Disposable Gloves

1 x First Aid Instruction Booklet

1 x Strong Carry Case With 2 " (5cm) wide Shoulder Strap

 

It looks like DIN-13164 kits may also be found in high-street outlets like Halfords and Lidl.

[Usinmyknaus]

This thread got me thinking. I carry a comprehensive kit principally for use within the van and it's 38 years since my last formal first aid course. I wonder if anybody has been sued for damages for using a first aid kit whilst trying to help someone in need? If not, surely it's only a matter of time? Without being medically qualified, or at least in possession of a current Red Cross or St. John Ambulance certificate, how could one possibly demonstrate having met the duty of care implciit in such situations?

 

After all, with lawyers' income plumetting from a lack of house sales and the Government finally waking up to the real cost of criminal legal aid, I expect they will have to do something to keep up with their kids' school fees...?

 

I recall a press article recently that back injuries, for example, could generate a hit of around £2 million for anyone proved to have been negligent and insurers are unlikely to ride to the rescue. Possession of a reasonably smart motorhome tends to imply a fairly high net worth individual who might, therefore, be an easy target for the opportunistic or desperate.

 

Of course the person one helped might just be grateful enough to overlook the consequences of your actions, but would their partner and dependents be so generous of spirit if facing a life of penury.....?

 

Even if a court awarded only token damages, I expect legal costs could destroy the finances of the Good Samaritan, whilst the claimant had nothing to lose thanks to free legal aid or the services of a "no win no fee" lawyer?

 

Bob

[chatterdog]

In Britain all taxis, private hire cars have to by goverment regulations carry a comprehensive first aid kit, but the driver of said vehicle cannot actually use the dressings on a passenger or anyone else that might need it, but he can offer the use of his first aid kit to them to use.It is only if the driver has current fisrtaid certificates that he can then use it to dress an injury of another person. The kit above contains basically the same as the one for taxis but they also have to have saftey pins, eyewash liquid, eyepatch bandage and a moulded solid eyepatch, but they donot have to have a blanket.

[Derek Uzzell]

I recall being on a first-aid course many years ago.

 

The lecturer was asked what one should do if, on rounding a bend on a motorway, you were faced with a major traffic accident situation where shattered vehicles were strewn across the carriageways. A quiet voice from the seats behind me said "Make an exceedingly rapid U-turn."

[detourer]

Are you not required in France, by law, to give assistance at the scene of an accident? Just seemed to have read it somewhere, could have been after the “Diana” thing…………

 

..

[Bill Ord]

Hi,

I believe Detourer is correct in believing that you must give assistance at the scene of an accident or so my French relatives tell me.

 

Bill Ord

[detourer]

Good Samaritan Laws were devised as a way of protecting people who come to the aid of others. They stipulate that any person who comes to the aid of an injured or ill person cannot be blamed for any further injury or illness that results from the aid given. People may hesitate to give aid for fear of being wrongly prosecuted for the person's accidental injury or death.

 

Good Samaritan Laws can vary from country to country, but the concept of the law is universal. The Good Samaritan Law takes its name from the parable told by Jesus in the Bible, in which a Samaritan stops to help an injured stranger. Good Samaritan Laws state that unless there is a previous caregiver relationship, no one can be made to come to the aid of another.

 

Assistance given for financial remuneration is not protected by Good Samaritan Laws. People such as security guards or those who give aid as part of their employment are also not protected by Good Samaritan Laws. In addition, the aid giver must not leave the injured or ill person until professional medical assistance has arrived.

 

Good Samaritan Laws ensure that the person giving assistance is not legally liable for any harm or death that befalls the injured person. A person cannot give any help to a conscious injured person without his or her consent, or the act can be considered assault. If the injured or ill person is not conscious or is delusional, then consent is not required.

 

Although the basic guidelines of Good Samaritan Laws are universal, different countries have different views on the law. In some countries, for example the Canadian province of Quebec, the Good Samaritan Law is a legal requirement that makes helping the injured compulsory.

 

In some countries, Good Samaritan Laws do not exist. In countries such as Ireland and Lebanon, there are no guidelines regarding the Good Samaritan Law. In Italy, the minimum required assistance is to call for an ambulance if an injured or ill person is found. Italians who provide assistance are usually protected from court action. However, they can still have legal action taken against them if any harm comes to the person.

 

In France, it is a legal requirement to help someone who is injured. If an onlooker does not help, then he or she can be charged with failing to respect the law. In Germany, a person should provide help if it is required, and he or she is immune from prosecution if the assistance turns out to be harmful. The general consensus throughout the world seems to be that it is best to help someone who is injured, although in these days of mass litigation, it might be prudent to check the rules concerning your area first.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Now, to avoid any prolonged fights, I'm going to credit Michelin for the following.  :-)

First aid kits are obligatory in Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Bosnia, Belarus, Czech Rep, Germany, Estonia, Liechtenstein, Greece, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Moldova, Macedonia, Roumania, Russia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Serbia, Turkey, and Ukraine.  In Albania, Andorra, Switzerland, Cyprus, Denmark, Spain, France, Finland, UK, Italy, Ireland, Iceland, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Montenegro, Norway, Netherlands, Portugal, Poland, San Marino, and Sweden, they are "recommended".

Next bit: advice on what to do on encountering an accident.  Do: call emergency services, activate hazard warning flashers, pull over - leaving space for emergency vehicles, get uninjured passengers to a place of safety, get - and stay - behind roadside barriers, place warning triangle 200 metres back down road.  Do not: compromise your own safety, smoke, move victims - unless they are in imminent danger (fire etc), remove helmets from motorcyclists or other two wheeled vehicle users, give food or drink to victims, remove clothes from victims.

So what is the first aid kit for?  For someone else to use, it seems!  Mostly for minor injuries, I think, or for a quick cover up of any open wounds.  Generally, best to await paramedics where injuries are serious.  Look at the quiet ones first, those yelling are generally less urgent.

Warning triangles are generally required: two for Spain and Cyprus.

[mike 202]

J ust bought first aid kit from halfords, their large first aid kit marked with "Exceeds DIN 13164 - a legal requirement in Germany". Price reduced from £22.49 to £14.99. Looks a good piece of kit

Mike

[Chucky]

Thanks to all for the information, looks like Halfords is a good buy...... Safe travels

[brayn]

Having taught in schools and colleges for 40 years and been a qualified first-aider for all of that time, can I enter a plea?

Regardless of the kit you carry and how much you want to help, please leave the victims alone unless they are in danger or at risk of bleeding out. My experience suggests that most people are lethal when it comes to first aid; I have almost come to blows preventing well meaning olookers from shoving spoons and/or bic biro barrels into the mouths of epilptics!

The first thing doctors are taught is to do no harm, we should adopt a similar approach.