Introduction & a Big Question

[Colin9591]

Hi All,

As a newcomer to this site I'd like to introduce myself and say hello, prior to asking for some help & advice, or perhaps that should be helpful advice.

We have been caravanning for 30+ years but now require a M/H because of mobility issues.

Our intention is that, when we can be assured that the Sevel gearbox problem is properly resolved, we shall commission a bespoke camper based on a high-top LWB Ducato 3.0 with the "Comfort-matic" set-up.

 

After a lot of soul-searching, measuring our caravan and its components, playing with scale model layouts etc. we feel that we've achieved a good layout to satisfy our needs but now require some help in selecting the best fixtures and fittings.

We're thinking in terms of:-

Two burner hob with grill.

Sink & Drainer.

Microwave oven.

Fridge ~ 75L compressor or 3 way?

2 x 110AH leisure batts.

Propex blown air heating.

Truma Ultrastore

Gaslow refillable system.

Fiamma Awning.

Heki rooflights.

Seitz windows.

Alarm system ~ we've not considered this yet but it's clearly an important issue.

And of course a loo and sink unit in the washroom.

 

The proposed usage is as a day van /weekend van using sites, with an occasional 7 - 10 day trip, all within the UK.

I've researched a fair few catalogues and websites for information but I feel that it's necessary to call upon others for their experience of these items of equipment and to ask for their recommendations.

 

It's a big subject and I'm hoping for lots of replies with good info on which bits of kit may be best suited to our purposes.

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

Best Regards

 

ColinS

[Rayjsj]

Why wait ? no-one has reported any problems (juddering) on the 3 litre X250 fitted with the (semi) automatic gearbox. Unless someone out there can call me a liar ? Good luck on the Build ! :D :D

[colin]

As caravan users you will have a good idea of what works so it would be hard to give you any extra advice unless you can post a picture of layout. I'm guessing you have thouraly researched the market and not found anything to meet your needs, I always carry a tape measure around the shows as was going to built anougher DIY and it's good to see what works and the dimensions (now there is the twin which is pretty much what we want) the only two pointers I would give at moment is that van as you proboly have realised is quite tight to fit layouts in, and they are not perfectly square, also the fixed sinks on a pvc can make washroom tight, the fold ups fitted to couple of the autocruise's seem to work a little better but not to every one's liking.

[rupert123]

I have a new Fiat, 2.2 litre, and have had no problems in 6500 miles since April. I have heard of no reported problems at all with the 3.0 litre auto. List of things is a very personal choice but would not be without my Glaslow.

[BrianR]

You have said that you propose using sites, but once you get into it you may well find that joining one of the clubs and using their CL/CS 5 'van sites will give you more choice and a cheaper site. A lot of these do not have mains hook-ups, so I would recommend that you ensure that the space heating, water heater and fridge have both mains electricity and gas capabilities. The compressor fridges can only run off mains electricity, so unless you have a generator (which will make you unpopular with fellow campers) you would be restricting yourself. Also, compressor fridges are more noisy. Have you considered and rejected an oven? Bear in mind that grills on small camping gas cookers are pretty useless, in my experience. Omnistore awnings are generally considered to be a better product than Fiamma. I would consider an alarm to be an essential and it will also get you a reduced insurance premium.

[Guest JudgeMental]

welcome to the forum!

 

I have looked at UK van convesrsions and found them lacking and expensive.

 

Much better value fron quality European manafacturers, like Karman Mobil and Euramobil. They cost approx euro 40k. Have seen and slept in the Karman Davis while having some warranty work done on my van at Belgian dealerand it has a quality finish, with proper insulation and factory built internal panels with blinds etc.... they just seem a properly built quality van.

 

http://www.karmann-mobil.de/frameset_start_g.htm

 

http://www.euramobil.com/_produkte2008/quixta_start.html

[Colin9591]

Thanks for your initial responses. I'll try and work through them in the order that they arose.

 

Gearbox

It wasn't/isn't clear to me that the 3.0 semi-auto box is not affected by the judder issue. Someone specifically asked this question a short while ago and I can't recall any response. However, if this is indeed the case then our timeline is to have a vehicle ready for next Spring as there seems little point in having it delivered on Christmas Day when a week later it'd be a 2009 vehicle. Mind you, if it was delayed until 1st March then it would have an 09 plate as well.........ad infinitum. Indeed, why wait, no-one is getting any younger.

 

Knowledge level

Our caravan is now 22 years old so we have no experience of the more modern equipment items that are now available, hence my quest for advice. With no experience of these modern heating systems we cannot be sure that the Propex gas/mains unit and the Truma Ultrastore are the best choice for us and would welcome input from others.

 

Existing designs

I've looked at, measured and photographed the interiors of quite a few vans but nothing fits the bill. I should say that the vehicle will be wheelchair accessed as this explains a lot of our thinking in terms of the layout.

For the same reason a fixed sink is preferable in the washroom, with an adjacent swivel loo to double up as a seat. Also, the washroom has to have a floor that's flush with the van floor and most "commercial" designs have a ships bulkhead style of washroom door.

Our selected layout is similar in the front half to a Murvi Morello but with single bunks either side and no "L" shape to the lounger/bed. This allows wheelchair access to the rear. The rear layout is almost a mirror image of the Morello with a slightly larger washroom, rotated and in the nearside rear corner and an "L" shaped kitchen in the offside rear corner. A couple of cupboards and a wardrobe fill in the gaps and the (folding) wheelchair stows away in its own compartment behind the offside rear door, under the hob. Eye level upper lockers are to be fitted all around the van.

 

Small sites

Yes, it's important to have dual energy sourcing for heating/hot water and this we will certainly do. With regard to the compressor fridge/ 3 way fridge question I had thought that 12v compressor fridges are available that will draw only about 1 amp, giving a long duration, perhaps 3.5 days on 2 x 110 AH batteries. These seem to be of increasing popularity and would be particularly suitable for sites where no mains is available?

I would feel a little exposed with only a 12v source if we were touring abroad but as we're only going to use it for short term UK trips then losing the fridge wouldn't be disastrous.

 

Oven/Grill

The oven in our caravan has been used about twice in the last twenty years so we'd discarded the idea of an oven and replaced it with a microwave. However, we've used the excellent grill a great deal but it's combined as the upper part of the oven so is perhaps of a different design to those combined with a hob. More research needed here I think.

 

Awning

I've no experience to guide me as to Fiamma or Omnistor so I'd appreciate knowing the relative advantages/failings of either. I'm guessing that the Omnistor may have a superior build quality/ease of use than the Fiamma which may be more popular because it's better value?

 

Alarm

Yes, definitely but we've just not thought about it yet.

 

UK or EU converter

We're some way from the channel ports and can't easily pop over to oversee a custom build, so rather than use one of the larger "names" we are planning to use a local converter whose work we have inspected and are pleased with. We can also oversee the build quite easily and as it's local then warranty issues become easier too. As to cost, a small local converter is much better value than one of the "names" and can, we feel, be more flexible in crafting the van to suit or slightly unusual requirements. Also, because the van will genuinely be adapted for wheelchair access then it will become VAT exempt, which is helpful.

 

Thank you all very much for your useful comments. I hope that this note has clarified our approach and I look forward to receiving further comments please.

 

Best Regards

 

Colin

[BrianR]

Colin9591 - 2008-09-03 3:40 PM

 

Thanks for your initial responses. I'll try and work through them in the order that they arose.

 

 

 

I would feel a little exposed with only a 12v source if we were touring abroad but as we're only going to use it for short term UK trips then losing the fridge wouldn't be disastrous.

 

 

 

Colin

 

The above comment seems to indicate a misunderstanding of the "3way" fridges. On these, the energy source when stationary is either gas or mains electric. The 12 volt is only used when moving. Or were you refering to having a compressor fridge and using this on 12 volt when on a site without a hook-up? If you go this route, even with 2x110AH batteries, in winter you would soon drain them. Don't overlok the fact that your space heater fan will be running. I forget what their usage is, but it is significant.

 

Whilst on the subject of battery usage, LED lighting is now the best for a new build - but be careful to see before you buy, to get the right colour (white, warm white, etc.) and and angle of light (spot, wide angle, etc.). They use a lot less amps than halogen or filament bulbs.

 

Don't totally right off the possibility of foreign trips - the Continent is much more "user friendly" to motorcaraveners, with many free or very low cost sights and cheaper fuel, to say nothing of the climate and the food and wine!

[HWO]

Hi Colin

A few thought's from a caravanner of 25 years who changed to a motorhome in March 07

" don't do it"

 

No seriously it's a great life.

 

Anyhow my thought's for what they are worth.

I reckon that if you have to fill a space with either a microwave or a oven, the oven wins most times. we go away all year including over Christmas so find one of our easiest meals is everything in the hot pot and forget it, and ofcourse the xmas turkey don't look too good in a microwave.

 

I would think that the 3- way fridge is a lot more use that a compressor one.

Our water/heating is taken care of with a Truma combi and we find it wonderful. We have the gas/ elec one and after the first period when it uses the gas and gives you a little noise it just ticks over almost silently on the electric element even in winter. Our m/h is a 28foot 'A' class so there is a lot of space to heat, and my co-pilot has been heard to say 'you will have to turn that heating down'

Perhaps the truma would be a more compact set up than a propex and ultastore and less noise.

If you are using sites with hook-ups(which I do most of the time) I find it hard to justify the cost of gaslow cylinders but in a new-built commision it would not be that significant.

We were away amost all of August this year and used camping club THS and found after 4/5 days our 2X100 amp batteries were getting a bit low on volts without going out for a run, it could be worth having a solar panel with the wiring put in from the start.

On the same vain think about LED lights as opposed to halogen bulbs.

Read somewhere that Ominstor were better than Fiama awnings but suppose you will get a contrary veiw on the site.

 

In my humble opinion fixed beds are a waste of space especially in a panel van. Our last caravan had a fixed bed with a L shaped lounge and it was a truly awful layout, but if you feel the compromise on space is worth it or you need the ease of one then so be it.

 

Hope this has been of some help. Now get yourselve ready for all that waving on the road and chit-chat on the site because we are lot friendlier than them caravanners.

[Colin9591]

BrianR - 2008-09-03 4:07 PM

 

Colin9591 - 2008-09-03 3:40 PM

 

Thanks for your initial responses. I'll try and work through them in the order that they arose.

 

I would feel a little exposed with only a 12v source if we were touring abroad but as we're only going to use it for short term UK trips then losing the fridge wouldn't be disastrous.

 

Colin

 

Or were you refering to having a compressor fridge and using this on 12 volt when on a site without a hook-up? If you go this route, even with 2x110AH batteries, in winter you would soon drain them. Don't overlok the fact that your space heater fan will be running. I forget what their usage is, but it is significant.

 

Whilst on the subject of battery usage, LED lighting is now the best for a new build - but be careful to see before you buy, to get the right colour (white, warm white, etc.) and and angle of light (spot, wide angle, etc.). They use a lot less amps than halogen or filament bulbs.

 

 

Thanks for your input Brian, I was referring to having a 12v compressor fridge for use on sites without a hook up.

Interestingly LED lighting had appeared on my radar but the notion of colour and angle of light hadn't occurred to me, that's a useful heads up, thanks.

 

Regards

 

Colin

[Colin9591]

HWO - 2008-09-03 4:35 PM

 

Hi Colin

A few thought's from a caravanner of 25 years who changed to a motorhome in March 07

" don't do it"

 

No seriously it's a great life.

 

 

In my humble opinion fixed beds are a waste of space especially in a panel van. Our last caravan had a fixed bed with a L shaped lounge and it was a truly awful layout, but if you feel the compromise on space is worth it or you need the ease of one then so be it.

 

Hope this has been of some help. Now get yourselve ready for all that waving on the road and chit-chat on the site because we are lot friendlier than them caravanners.

 

Howard, thanks for taking the time to reply with some good input. The reason for the fixed offside bed is to maintain a clear aisle down the middle for night-time excursions to the loo, using a walking frame. Without this consideration then it would be a folding double bed.

 

The microwave is excellent for cooking rice, which we eat more of than spuds, also it can be used to heat up my OH's night-time footwarmer which is probably the main reason for her insistence on a microwave. There's always more to these things than meets the eye.

 

I'll have a look at the Truma Combi, that sounds interesting.

 

Again, there's a lot of good stuff in your comments and along with others I'll print these off to consider in some detail.

 

Thanks & Regards

 

Colin

[tonyishuk]

If you are thinking of driving backwards, a reversing camera is a good idea. :-)

[Guest JudgeMental]

The plot thickens....all these van conversions are very narrow. can't imagine using a walking frame. Have you looked at the "van" style small coachbuilts?

[Derek Uzzell]

ColinS:

 

It might be worth you taking a look at John Wickersham's book "Build your own Motorhome" as this has sections on panel-van conversions, equipment selection, etc. Even though you don't intend to DIY the conversion, JW's book should still provide useful ideas.

[colin]

Re the hob/grill, have been cooking meat and two veg *-) on a SMEV s1242 for 10 years, grill works but is not too brillient, not sure if the 555 mini grill or maybe s402 are better.

As for disabled access have you considered the following convertors?

http://www.horizons-unlimited.co.uk/mobility_options/index.html

http://www.youngconversions.com/gal_disabled.html

 

[Colin9591]

JudgeMental - 2008-09-03 6:28 PM

 

The plot thickens....all these van conversions are very narrow. can't imagine using a walking frame. Have you looked at the "van" style small coachbuilts?

 

Aye, I've done that but their doors are too narrow to get the wheelchair through and our intended usage is mostly as a day/weekend van locally in the Lakes which means that coachbuilts are a bit too wide and a narrow pvc could just about make it. I recognise that we're trying to get a quart into a pint pot but that's also part of the challenge I guess.

 

Thanks for your comments.

 

Best Regards

 

ColinS

[Colin9591]

Derek Uzzell - 2008-09-03 7:05 PM

 

ColinS:

 

It might be worth you taking a look at John Wickersham's book "Build your own Motorhome" as this has sections on panel-van conversions, equipment selection, etc. Even though you don't intend to DIY the conversion, JW's book should still provide useful ideas.

 

Thanks Derek,

I'll have a look for it, is it relatively current?

 

Regards

 

ColinS

[Colin9591]

colin - 2008-09-03 8:55 PM

 

Re the hob/grill, have been cooking meat and two veg *-) on a SMEV s1242 for 10 years, grill works but is not too brillient, not sure if the 555 mini grill or maybe s402 are better.

As for disabled access have you considered the following convertors?

http://www.horizons-unlimited.co.uk/mobility_options/index.html

http://www.youngconversions.com/gal_disabled.html

 

Hi Colin,

I've got a SMEV catalogue so I'll have a look at those items, thanks for your input.

 

Horizons I've looked at and found nothing to suit, especially when the costs are compared but youngconversions are new to me so I'll have a gander at them.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Regards

 

Colin

[Derek Uzzell]

Colin:

 

JW's book was first published in 2006, so it's fairly well up to date. Another useful source of information would be CAK's catalogue (www.caktanks.com).

 

On heaters, the Propex "Heatsource" blown-air units are gas-only. Truma's latest Combi combination air/water heating unit can be obtained in gas-only or gas + 230V variants. The least powerful Combi has a 4kW output (on gas) but, with a RRP of around £1400 for the gas+230V version, it's hardly cheap. It's also designed to be installed in a particular orientation if space usage is to be minimised. (Basically, if you intended to fit a Combi in a smallish motorhome, you'd really need to factor that decision into the vehicle's internal layout-design right at the outset of the project.) If you want an air- and water-heating system that MUST be able to operate on gas and/or 230V, then the Combi is probably your only realistic option. There are potential alternatives - an Alde 'wet' system or the traditional convector-fire + separate water-boiler caravan arrangement - but neither of these is likely to be suitable for a panel-van conversion.

 

MMM published two articles (June and July 2006 issues) in which Mel Eastburn described having a panel-van converted to his personal specification. Well worth obtaining back-copies as Mel's experiences were not hiccup-free. I also recall a couple of letters in MMM (quite some time ago) from a couple who purchased a new Fiat Ducato panel-van from Ireland at roughly a 50% price savings, prior to having the vehicle converted to a motorhome by Murvi, so that might also be worthwhile exploring to see if such savings on the price of the base-vehicle can still be achieved.

[Colin9591]

Derek Uzzell - 2008-09-04 11:28 AM

 

Colin:

 

JW's book was first published in 2006, so it's fairly well up to date. Another useful source of information would be CAK's catalogue (www.caktanks.com).

 

On heaters, the Propex "Heatsource" blown-air units are gas-only. Truma's latest Combi combination air/water heating unit can be obtained in gas-only or gas + 230V variants. The least powerful Combi has a 4kW output (on gas) but, with a RRP of around £1400 for the gas+230V version, it's hardly cheap. It's also designed to be installed in a particular orientation if space usage is to be minimised. (Basically, if you intended to fit a Combi in a smallish motorhome, you'd really need to factor that decision into the vehicle's internal layout-design right at the outset of the project.) If you want an air- and water-heating system that MUST be able to operate on gas and/or 230V, then the Combi is probably your only realistic option. There are potential alternatives - an Alde 'wet' system or the traditional convector-fire + separate water-boiler caravan arrangement - but neither of these is likely to be suitable for a panel-van conversion.

 

MMM published two articles (June and July 2006 issues) in which Mel Eastburn described having a panel-van converted to his personal specification. Well worth obtaining back-copies as Mel's experiences were not hiccup-free. I also recall a couple of letters in MMM (quite some time ago) from a couple who purchased a new Fiat Ducato panel-van from Ireland at roughly a 50% price savings, prior to having the vehicle converted to a motorhome by Murvi, so that might also be worthwhile exploring to see if such savings on the price of the base-vehicle can still be achieved.

 

Lots of good stuff here Derek, thank you. I'll search out those back numbers and a copy of the book.

The best deal so far on the van and I've only had two firm quotations as yet is -39%, a few more quotations are yet to come.

 

Thanks & Regards

 

Colin

[armstrongpiper]

Hi Colin, We took delivery of a new Coachbuilt 'van in July which is built on the Ducato 3 litre (160 multijet) with Comfortmatic Auto Box. My wife has done all the driving so far as I have eye problems (temporary I hope) and she is really really pleased with how it drives. The Auto box is dead easy to use and sounds like a very competent driver making very slick manual gearchanges. We've done about a thousand miles without problems, and reversing up a gentle slope into the garden is done with no judder or protest and is very controllable. MPG, for those interested in such things, is improving each tankful, and is presently about 26.

On subject of 'Van conversions, have you seen the work produced by Vanmaster at Wigan. The 'vans they convert have a good name and look high quality. We seriously considered one of theirs, but eventually decided on a Coachbuilt, but they seemed very flexible in their approach to our ideas on modifications.

Good hunting,

 

Neil B

[Colin9591]

armstrongpiper - 2008-09-04 4:51 PM

 

Hi Colin, We took delivery of a new Coachbuilt 'van in July which is built on the Ducato 3 litre (160 multijet) with Comfortmatic Auto Box. My wife has done all the driving so far as I have eye problems (temporary I hope) and she is really really pleased with how it drives. The Auto box is dead easy to use and sounds like a very competent driver making very slick manual gearchanges. We've done about a thousand miles without problems, and reversing up a gentle slope into the garden is done with no judder or protest and is very controllable. MPG, for those interested in such things, is improving each tankful, and is presently about 26.

On subject of 'Van conversions, have you seen the work produced by Vanmaster at Wigan. The 'vans they convert have a good name and look high quality. We seriously considered one of theirs, but eventually decided on a Coachbuilt, but they seemed very flexible in their approach to our ideas on modifications.

Good hunting,

 

Neil B

 

Thanks for the pointer to Vanmasters Neil. I hadn't heard of them but they look quite interesting.

 

Best Regards

 

ColinS