4petedaniel Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 HI I HAVE JUST PURSHASED A USED CAMPER VAN A AUTOSLEEPER AMYTHEST 1998 AND ONLY JUST RELISED THAT THERE IS NO SPARE WHEEL FITTED IS THIS NORMAL? AS I AM UNABLE TO REMBER A SPARE ON MY LAST VERCULE PETEDANIEL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 4petedaniel - 2008-09-14 8:12 AM HI I HAVE JUST PURSHASED A USED CAMPER VAN A AUTOSLEEPER AMYTHEST 1998 AND ONLY JUST RELISED THAT THERE IS NO SPARE WHEEL FITTED IS THIS NORMAL? AS I AM UNABLE TO REMBER A SPARE ON MY LAST VERCULE PETEDANIEL Pretty normal these days Peter. You will find a differance of opinion on here, those with a spare will shout would never be without one, those without, including me, will put the other side. I do not have a spare, not supplied with my new van, so I filled the tyres with a sealer, carry the emergency tyre kit and checked my breakdown service would sort things out if I get a flat, they will. My last van had a spare but very hard to get at and not sure if I would have bothered to try even if I had got a puncture. It has not bothered me in the 7000 miles I have done since May and if I get a flat will worry at that time and let others sort it out. Would probably on balance rather have a spare but am certainly not going to the bother of obtaining one and then have the expense of fitting and carrying the extra weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brambles Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 I agree it is fairly normal nowadays not to have a spare wheel, but in 1998 most had spare wheels still. The Autosleeper Amethyst I believe should have had a spare wheel originally. Is there actually a carrier, or place for a carrier underneath for a spare as may have been removed by previous owner? Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 I removed my spare wheel this summer and saved 40kg....But I had punture seal fitted as well. I have only ever had a pucture on a bike (fingers crossed *-) ) and would not fancy doing a wheel change on a motorhome, would prefer to leave it to the breakdown service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 Thank you for the information on +& - on the spare wheel question. can you give me a suggest on how to purchase a pucture sealant or is itbetter to get it done by the experts Petedaniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp002c784tp002c784tp Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 4petedaniel - 2008-09-14 5:17 PM Thank you for the information on +& - on the spare wheel question. can you give me a suggest on how to purchase a pucture sealant or is itbetter to get it done by the experts Petedaniel Hi 4petedaniel You can buy the kit and do it yourself but if you are going to any of the Motorhome shows you can get it done on 15inch wheels for £60 so is it worth getting your hands dirty. (lol) Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 They came to my house and it was £70, that was for 16 inch wheels, most on here paid approx £60 but I live in London *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Just be aware that some breakdown insurances won't cover you if you call them out for a puncture and you haven't got a spare wheel for them to change. That might prove expensive or even delay your journey if you then have to source one locally, especially if you are abroad. Also if a tyre disintegrates or rips the puncture seal won't help. I bought one for my Cheyenne 660 and it cost £150 for the wheel and tyre, both new. It fits in the storage area under the tail, where the pre 2008 models had theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 The lack of a spare wheel, and lack of a rear chassis on some models, makes you wonder what they are going to throw out next. It's all done of course to enable the converters to still offer some sort of payload with the ever increasing weight of the base chassis. This poses the question of whether the 3500kg limit is still really relevant in this day and age and is there a case for raising it?. After all braking, handling and steering have all improved out of all recognition since year dot when the 3500 limit came in. Again, in a great many cases you can downplate or upgrade the weights anyway, its all the same chassis, so it cannot be a safety issue. To my mind, and bearing in mind some of the ridiculous payloads out there, whose owners must be running around overloaded in legal terms, an uplift in the the 3500 weight limit would do everyone a favour. Even if it was allowed only on motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Ron, Very little chance, I'm afraid. The latest EU Legislation - due for implementation in the UK and all other member States by 2010 effectively sets the 3500 limit in concrete - at least as far as driver licensing is concerned. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Mel Why am I not suprised? It's not another directive that only the UK impliment and which all the others ignore is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 I personally would never venture abroad, and only reluctantly in the UK, without a spare wheel and if a van don't have one we don't buy it! Get a split tyre or an unrepairable puncture and you will be bu##ared as very few tyre depots carry a suitable tyre in stock - and they that do close at night and at weekends. For a 1998 Amethyst on a Transit, it should have a rack under the rear end and a visit to any breakers yard should secure you a decent enough spare wheel - and the rack if needed - for peanuts, although you may well need to put a new tyre on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 I would like to know the pros and cons on what is best a replacement wheel or a puncture seal fitted. The replacement seems the better option . but the weight of a spare wheel and the jack as extras are a bit daunting. considering that my camper is only 200 kilos under the weight limit. Petedaniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 4petedaniel - 2008-09-16 8:38 AM I would like to know the pros and cons on what is best a replacement wheel or a puncture seal fitted. The replacement seems the better option . but the weight of a spare wheel and the jack as extras are a bit daunting. considering that my camper is only 200 kilos under the weight limit. Petedaniel A search of previous posts will tell you that half of us believe you should carry a spare as tyre might be punctured beyond limits of sealent, other half say no problems save the weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Tracker - 2008-09-15 9:09 PM I personally would never venture abroad, and only reluctantly in the UK, without a spare wheel and if a van don't have one we don't buy it! Get a split tyre or an unrepairable puncture and you will be bu##ared as very few tyre depots carry a suitable tyre in stock - and they that do close at night and at weekends. For a 1998 Amethyst on a Transit, it should have a rack under the rear end and a visit to any breakers yard should secure you a decent enough spare wheel - and the rack if needed - for peanuts, although you may well need to put a new tyre on it. I am in total agreement with Tracker. Having experienced at first hand on the M20 on the way to catch a ferry a tyre deflation at 65-70mph, I am of the opinion that whilst having pre installed sealant (which I have no problem with as I use it in my motorcycles, but then you can't carry a spare on a motorcycle!) is a good precaution, if you get a a large puncture that the sealant is not capable of sealing (5mm or above and it struggles at the top limit) or you have a blow out for whatever reason a reinflation kit will be as much use as a chocolate teapot. I personally would never travel without a spare and also would never buy a vehicle new or second hand that did not have one fitted as part of the deal. In the whole time I have been driving I have only ever had two flat tyres (though my wife has had three in the last two years, twice destroying the tyre the second being the new tyre fitted two weeks earlier!) out on the road both on motorways and both resulting in the total destruction of the tyre so as usual if you like to gamble...... I still would not be without one myself! Also my rescue recovery package renewal came through in the week and it now expressly excludes FREE work if you have not got a servicable spare wheel. So they will come out but the whole job is chargeable and removes their obligations to get you moving or recovered if a suitable replacement is not easily obtainable. This is the first time that this has been written in, to my knowledge, and suggests to me that they have started to come unstuck with vehicles on the road. I wonder if the others are doing the same how long before they all do , no spare is no sense. Bas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The requirement to carry a spare has been in RAC t&c's for many years and was before the general introduction of sealents etc. one of my vehicles has never had spare in the 28years I've owned it, many years ago spoke to RAC about it, they vebaly agreed that as I carried puncture repair sealent no charge would be made, the only puncture I ever had with that vehicle was a flint which made hole to big for sealent, lucklily a local garage had a tyre instock and could come out and fit in time for me to go home from work that night. I seem to remember there was a requirement to carry a spare if driving on a motorway, don't know if this has changed, but wouldn't want to change wheel on the hard shoulder! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The lady I spoke to at the RAC said that not having a spare wheel was OK with them as long as the car was designed not to have a spare. As long as you are carrying the repair kit that the manufacturer provided, thus showing due diligence, they will provide whatever service is needed to get you mobile again and if that means finding a new tyre, then so be it. Whether or not they could conjure up a new camping car or van tyre to match the other three on your van at night, on a Sunday, or in a foreign land are, of course, different issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Don't be to hard on the foreigners. The only time I've needed them they were first class. Also the tyres will probably be foreign made anyway so more available. Incidentally, My RAC document states 'Motorised vehicles that are manufactured without the provision of a spare wheel will be considered on their individual merits'. That's not what the lady seems to have said and is about as long as a piece of string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 "Peace of mind" I have never needed a spare wheel but I always carry one even with sealant installed in all the road wheels. I have never needed a fire extinquisher but I always carry one. I have never needed 'jump leads' but I always carry them. Also lots of tools, fuses, bulbs, etc; etc: Every so often I have had something that another motorhome owner needed, jump leads was the last thing at the Malvern Autumn Horticulture Show last year. (Remember that???it was the dry one). Belt & braces, The Lord helps them who help them selves................or what ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 4petedaniel - 2008-09-16 8:38 AM I would like to know the pros and cons on what is best a replacement wheel or a puncture seal fitted. The replacement seems the better option . but the weight of a spare wheel and the jack as extras are a bit daunting. considering that my camper is only 200 kilos under the weight limit. Petedaniel Pete, in my original reply to your post I told you what would happen, those who carry spare would not be without it, those who do not bother to carry one are convinced it is not much use anyway, nothing clever about my prediction it has been discussed many times. If you carry a spare and get a blowout, what happens. You stop the van and decide to change the wheel, the van at this point is tilted at an angle and very low. In most cases the spare, which is buried underneath is impossible to get at in safety and even if you manage to extract it you now have to jack up a heavily loaded van and change the wheel. I can only say good luck but I would not even consider it. OK so you call out your breakdown people to do it, they arrive and change the wheel, what then, you are now without a spare anyway so still need a new tyre so not really much better of. You still need to find a tyre place and they will have to order a tyre. all tyre shops in my experience will get you a tyre the next day, most operate on Saturdays so worst case scenario you puncture on the weekend and have to wait until Monday, maybe Tuesday if you really are unlucky. How often is this likely to happen, the chances are never, so I repeat if you have a spare fitted fine, carry it, I would do the same, if not do not worry you are not much worst off even if you get a blowout and for anyone to say they would not buy a new motorhome because it does not have a spare is a complete nonsense, that is the way it is now and will continue as it has with a lot of cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 One or two points Rupert. Waiting for the RAC or whatever to change a wheel is very different to waiting for them to recover your van and take it and you to a place of safety and then finding you a new tyre. Sod's law being what it is, two punctures do happen but at least after fitting the spare you do have enough mobility to go look for a replacement yourself - or ask the recovery firm to source one for you. The choice of whether or not to buy a motorhome without a spare wheel is not a nonsense as you put it - it is a personal choice and just as others should not knock your opinions neither should you criticise theirs. I agree that many foreign garages offer a much better service than here in the UK but given the language and unfamiliar circumstances it can't be easy to source a new tyre in a foreign land. I agree that changing a wheel on a motorhome - laden or unladen is difficult and the jack supplied are usually unhelpful. I have done it on the M6 many years ago - at night and in the rain - and it is not a thing I would care to do again so perhaps I ought to consider carrying a can of repair foam to get me out of a bad situation and then I can get the wheel changed at my own convenience - assuming the tyre is not shredded that is. If you have a vehicle designed to have a spare wheel and you do not have one the cost of the recovery service resolving your predicament could easily be a lot more than the cost of a secondhand wheel and a new tyre to fit it. And then there is the inconvenience....................................? What price peace of mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4petedaniel Posted September 16, 2008 Author Share Posted September 16, 2008 There seems to be a lot of different opinions on this matter On my Amethyst the is a large space in the bumper that I shoud think should carry the spare wheel But it is so conveniant That it is already full up with equipment. and I would not realy know just where I can find the space to stow this lot. but on reflexion and after reading the comments of others I think I will look around the ford breakers to see if I can find a cheap spare and try to fit it on the roof. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tracker Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 I used to carry the Bedford CF spare on the roof rack but it was heavy and a real pain to get on and off and it also deteriorated in the open sunlight (back when we had daily sunlight that is) so it would need a cover. Or buy or make a large box for the roof in which to store all the lighter stuff that one tends to carry 'just in case'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 Tracker, you make some good points but I guess we will never agree on this and I fully accept everyone has to make their own choice. I also said on balance would probably rather have one but try to be realistic about it. However I stand by the nonsense bit, although feel I have used the wrong word. I did say NEW motorhome and this is the point. What I perhaps should have said was anyone who states they will not buy a new motorhome because it does not have a spare wheel is being unrealistic. Most do not have one now and I would guess in another, say two years, hardly any will, For various reasons they will follow the car market. I cannot remember the last time I had a car with a proper spare and perhaps the M/H compromise is here with some type of space saver spare, maybe the solid rubber type. On a change of subject I read with interest your North Cape posts, my wife and I have decided to make this one of our trips next year and will be asking for advice, hope you will supply some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Reading both Tracker and Ruperts posts it is clear that this subject is being viewed from two different standpoints, one that has never had a blowout on a van (Rupert) and one that may have (Tracker not sure). Well I have had a sudden deflation on a motorway (twice) so I speak from experience (not opinion or conjecture) and I repeat, despite Rupert stating that anyone not buying a van without a spare is nonsense, there is no way I would buy any vehicle without a spare wheel (be it space saver or normal) I have seen the result of a sudden deflation on a motorhome and as I have already said a chocolate teapot would be of more use than a reinflation kit (at least you could eat the chocolate). With regard to changing the wheel at the side of the motorway clearly it will depend on circumstances but the descriptions given about not being able too are incredibly innacurate. In my case I immediately contacted the motorway people who called out my breakdown service (Green Flag) however I proceeded to change the wheel myself on the hard shoulder of the M20 in the dark. I would add that my wife was behind the crash barrier and was acting as 'shotgun' in case of an errent vehicle entering the hard shoulder, all the vans lights were switched on (interior, hazards and side lights) and although it is illegal the rear of our van is equiped with high visibility reflective material as on large lorries, I had also put out two warning triangles though possibly not the full distance behind and was wearing a full hi-vis coat (my wife was wearing a hi-vis vest). The van, a 6.7m long 6 berth coachbuilt although fully laden ready for a five week trip to Europe, jacked up easily using the standard tools and jack There was no problem getting the jack on the jacking point or jacking it up and the van does'nt lean over at a precarious angle either! no different to any car I have worked on, the spare wheel came out easily and was fitted normally, the hardest part was removing the wretched wheel trims (only did it by breaking one of the lugs). I was just clearing up as the Green flag man arrived (around half an hour from being called good service) he had a check that all was well, picked up and returned my warning triangles and used his vehicle to cover my re-entry onto the motorway. One comment he made was that he could see me lit up like a christmas tree from way back down the road. The whole stoppage was for no more than one hour start to finish, but we missed our ferry as we were checking in at sailing time. The most difficult problem was getting a spare tyre to replace the useless one as we made the mistake of crossing to France and as we all know France is shut on Sunday and they do not use our tyre size (on a Peugeot Boxer!!!) in France, we were going to have CC Red Pennant ship some over for the following Tuesday but by luck managed to track down a pair of part worns for temporary use (so far from Ruperts comment of never it HAS happened to me!). So I completely agree with any comment about being left high and dry without being able to get a replacement, we could have lost 3-4 days of our holiday, not a problem for a five weeker but a chunk out of one or two. Yes it does mean once you have fitted the spare you no longer have one until you replace the damaged one but at least you now have the option and some time (hopefully) to get a new one before it is needed again. Clearly everone has to decide whether they wish to gamble or not, me I have never gambled in my life and never will I pre plan. In the same circumstances would I do it again, emphatically yes, would I buy a van with no spare wheel emphatically NO. Bas Editted to say sorry for the long winded post, did'nt look so long when I typed it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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