djchapple Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I have a Devon Monaco hightop PVC and in general i am very pleased with it. It has a fixed rear bed with a storage area underneath about 6ft x 4fy x 3 ft so storage space is not a problem. The two approx 4 kg gas bottles are stored under one of the rear passenger seats. There is no space for larger bottles. I have toyed with the idea of fitting a new gas bottle locker in the rear storage space under the bed capable of holding larger bottles. My questions are these. Can I buy a ready made gas bottle locker that will conform to all the necessary regulations? From where can I get all the necessary regulations relating to such conversion work? Can an experienced engineer (retired thank goodness) do the work himself and then get it inspected later - if so by whom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 djchapple - 2008-10-06 5:42 PM I have a Devon Monaco hightop PVC and in general i am very pleased with it. It has a fixed rear bed with a storage area underneath about 6ft x 4fy x 3 ft so storage space is not a problem. The two approx 4 kg gas bottles are stored under one of the rear passenger seats. There is no space for larger bottles. I have toyed with the idea of fitting a new gas bottle locker in the rear storage space under the bed capable of holding larger bottles. My questions are these. Can I buy a ready made gas bottle locker that will conform to all the necessary regulations? From where can I get all the necessary regulations relating to such conversion work? Can an experienced engineer (retired thank goodness) do the work himself and then get it inspected later - if so by whom? Cannot answer all but sure someone will, however pretty sure their are no regulations regarding who fits the gas system in a m/h, so you can do yourself. have you thought about a refillable system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Hi David, I don't know of anywhere that you can buy a ready made gas locker but if you can find a local sheet metal worker they could fabricate it for you to your dimensions I'm sure. There are gas regulations but there is an exclusion for all motorhomes not hired out in the course of a business so you can do the work yourself, there isn't even any legal need to have the work checked although that is obviously a good idea. I don't know where you could get a copy of the gas regs, I got mine by doing a course on LPG fitting. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I would guess that the following would have most of the info you want, altough I've not read it myself. http://www.vicarious-shop.co.uk/view_product.php?c_id=1&sc_id=&p_id=3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 The basics are: The gas locker should be made or lined in sheet steel, either galvanised or stainless as a fire barrier to protect the cylinders from heat if the van caught fire. Aluminium is not acceptable as it melts at too low a temperature. The gas locker structure should be sealed to the body of the vehicle. The gas locker should have a drop out in its floor that exits the vehicle directly, if the gas locker is raised above the floor of the vehicle then a sealed metal tube should be fitted to allow any leakage of gas to exit safely to the outside. The regulator should be mounted inside the gas locker and the hole for the pipe to exit should be sealed with a rubber grommet or flexible adhesive/sealant. No rubber or flexible hoses should be outside of the gas locker but inside the vehicle. The gas locker should include fixings to restrain the cylinder(s). D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I would certainly consider a fixed bulk tank or refillable cylinders rather than just larger Calor (or alternatives) cylinders. With an external filler point there will be no more lifting heavy cylinders or changing over (why is it always night time when they run out?) to a full one and with gas refills at less than half price it has to make sense. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 davenewell@home - 2008-10-06 8:06 PM The basics are: The gas locker should be made or lined in sheet steel, either galvanised or stainless as a fire barrier to protect the cylinders from heat if the van caught fire. Aluminium is not acceptable as it melts at too low a temperature. The gas locker structure should be sealed to the body of the vehicle. The gas locker should have a drop out in its floor that exits the vehicle directly, if the gas locker is raised above the floor of the vehicle then a sealed metal tube should be fitted to allow any leakage of gas to exit safely to the outside. The regulator should be mounted inside the gas locker and the hole for the pipe to exit should be sealed with a rubber grommet or flexible adhesive/sealant. No rubber or flexible hoses should be outside of the gas locker but inside the vehicle. The gas locker should include fixings to restrain the cylinder(s). D.Dave I think good practice would be to have a bulkhead fitting in the wall of the gas locker instead of sealing with sealant you suggest. Also that the final connection to appliances should be made with stainless steel braided hose. Also a pressure test point should be incorporated in the main run. It probably would also be a good idea to have a Bubble tester located in the line as well. Not saying that what you suggest is totally wrong, but appart from the Bubble tester all of the above are required for the British Waterways Safety Certificate before you can use a powered craft on their waterways (assuming it has gas appliances fitted). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Yes Peter you are quite correct, a bulkhead connector fitted to the gas locker wall would be preferable to a grommeted or sealed pipe but this is how most professionally converted motorhomes do it and it is acceptable. As for the rest of your points, I agree they would all be nice and I won't disagree about the waterways requirements but its almost impossible to put a gas drop in a boat without sinking it which is why the regs and requirements are different for boats and motorhomes. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Only time I recall having a major gas leak was on a hired narrow boat about 10 years ago, on returning boat I suggested they might consider fitting gas alarms and smoke detectors, answer was 'they arn't required by law' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 It is a requirement (and suicide not to ) to have a gas drop on a boat. Therefore the gas cylinder must be located above the waterline in order to faciitate it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Before you do any changes contact your insurer and ask them if they have a problem with what you propose BEFORE you do it. Some are rather picky about what is done and you might invalidate your insurance, or they might just insist on a gas safety check by a registered LPG professional. From what's been said so far, though, I think you'll find having a bulk fixed underfloor tank fitted (either by one of the many companies or by getting your retired friend to do it) much more cost effective and it will also free up the space inside your van. Clive Mott-Gotobed has a tank on his 'van which he fitted himself and I'm sure he has a web-page of how he did it ... are you out there Clive ... I say COO-EEE, CLIVE!!!!!! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Djchapple: Within John Wickersham's "Build your own Motorcaravan" book (Haynes Publishing), there's a Gas Supply Systems chapter that includes information on motorhome gas-cylinder compartments. A step-by-step example of a compartment being constructed is provided and JW quotes BS EN 1949:2002 Section 5 as specifying the requirements for compartments that will carry gas cylinders. I don't think this publication is available on-line, but you could purchase it via http://www.standardsdirect.org/standards/standards1/StandardsCatalogue24_view_12532.html if you feel like forking out around £92. JW's compartment-construction example employs an open-at-one-end metal 'shell' and Dave Newell also advises use of metal sheeting. However, the locker of my previous motorhome (a 1996-built NCC-approved Herald) was sheathed internally with 'plastic' sheet and my present, 2005-built Hobby's locker has plywood walls. It would appear from this that use of non-flammable materials (although clearly best practice) is not mandatory. MTH Gas Systems used to market a 5 litre composite refillable gas container that could replace one of your present bottles and might have removed the need for a bigger locker. I'm doubtful that this container is still available though. To carry any other refillable bottle will require a larger locker. If you've found the capacity of your present pair of exchangeable bottles rather, but not devastatingly, restrictive, then moving up to, say, 2 x 6kg(propane) exchangeable bottles is likely to be the most logical way forward. I don't consider construction of a new larger gas-locker to be a particularly challenging DIY task, especially as you've got an engineering background, and it shouldn't cost an arm and a leg to do. The only realistic alternative seems to be an external refillable gas-tank of the type shown on page 145 of October 2008 MMM. Installing such a tank won't be cheap (even if you DIY) and, in my opinion, would be financially questionable unless you plan to use a lot of gas in future or travel for long periods outside the UK. If you want details of Clive Mott-Gotobed's tank-fitting project, they are on http://www.motts.dsl.pipex.com/GASKIT.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapple Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Thanks to you all for the advice. I am now tending towards a bulk tank assuming that there is some place to fit it under my Renault master LWB van. Can anyone give me a link to a good company that sells the leisure type of tank (gas take off and not a liquid take off). My gas bottle locker is under a seat just inside the sliding door so there is no easy way I can get an external filler installed. JW's book looks good value. I will be at the NEC all week i will have yo look around to see if it's available there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 djchapple: If you GOOGLE-search pages from the UK using "lpg tanks motorhome" you'll find some potentially useful information. The MotorhomeFun entry is worth reading (it involves an inquiry about DIY fitting a LPG tank to a Renault Master) not least for the suggestion that the tank be roof-mounted. Suggest you also obtain a CAK catalogue (www.caktanks.com) as this company markets a range of LPG tanks and fittings. If (as seems probable) the size of tank you can fit beneath your Renault is restricted, this will necessitate fairly frequent refilling. Consequently, it might be a good idea to arrange for the fill-point to be at the rear of the vehicle and not at the side. A side-mounted filler-point can make life difficult regarding gaining access to LPG pumps that haven't been positioned with large vehicles in mind. (Some time ago there was a forum posting mentioning a company that had installed a LPG bulk-tank system at a price that undercut refillable gas-bottles. I haven't been able to find the relevant thread, but I haven't looked too hard! If you search the forum on (say) "tank" and then check through the (many) results, you might be able to spot it. I do recall that the price quoted was startlingly cheap.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 As the owner of a Renault Master LWB panel van conversion, I think it very doubtful that you'll find a safe place to mount a gas canister underneath the floor. The problem is that it has such a long wheelbase that any lowering of the floorline (eg., by a protruding gas canister) is liable to create a bottoming out problem over hump-bacled bridges and the like. The [roblem will be even worse if any tanks have been slung under the floor. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 As the owner of a Renault Master LWB panel van conversion, I think it very doubtful that you'll find a safe place to mount a gas canister underneath the floor. The problem is that it has such a long wheelbase that any lowering of the floorline (eg., by a protruding gas canister) is liable to create a bottoming out problem over hump-bacled bridges and the like. The [roblem will be even worse if any water tanks have been slung under the floor. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 djchapple - 2008-10-10 7:53 PM Thanks to you all for the advice. I am now tending towards a bulk tank assuming that there is some place to fit it under my Renault master LWB van. Can anyone give me a link to a good company that sells the leisure type of tank (gas take off and not a liquid take off). My gas bottle locker is under a seat just inside the sliding door so there is no easy way I can get an external filler installed. JW's book looks good value. I will be at the NEC all week i will have yo look around to see if it's available there. Hi, The main problem we have with fitting bulk tanks to the underside of our panel vans is, as Mel E points out, the low floor height but, sometimes it is possible and a good installation company will be able to advise. I agree with Derek's sentiments about the cost but have never subscribed to the view that such an addition to the van should be able to pay for itself after a couple of years. Although there will be a great saving on the gas used it is just as much about ease of use, availability and continuity of supply etc. Otherwise, not many of us would get a 'return' on the buying a motorhome in the first place! Not sure whereabouts in the country you are but Autogas 2000 are near Thirsk in North Yorkshire and, as the name suggests, are mainly involved with vehic,e LPG systems and they have both bulk and refillable systems, You will find them at http://www.autogas.co.uk/ Good luck David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cask Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hi, Try http://www.professautogas.co.uk/contact.htm A search for "Profess autogas" will bring up the tread from earlier this year. Cask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.