Guest JudgeMental Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I mentioned on here recently that Knauss Talbert were in financial trouble (reported in Promobil) it now seems that they have gone bust. They are apparently Germany’s largest motorhome/caravan manufacturer with 400 employees. I can’t put the translated links on here as to long......so just Google if interested "After failed negotiations with the banks is Germany's largest motorhome and caravan Bauer Knaus Tabbert, inter alia, in good Mottgers has 400 employees, broke." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 For more details, GOOGLE-search on "Knaus zahlungsunfahig" and then choose the 'Translate this page' option for the "Knaus - Nachrichten" entry that relates to the following link: http://www.wikio.de/news/Knaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webbocj Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Had a letter ready to send to Lowdhams, regarding problems with my Van Ti, think i'd better save the postage. What an 18mnths. for new starter, Fiat-gearbox/water ingress, euro, fuel costs, close on £20per. week just to keep it on the drive(insurance/servicing/hab.etc.) £38k investment- £20k today!!! Changed my life but not in the way I imagined, I feel like the captain of the Titanic. Is that how the drivers seat got it's name. P.s the money market is sinking faster. Total frustration SORRY. chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 There's a thread on MHF with some up to date info.. http://www.motorhomefacts.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=53378 Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 webbocj - 2008-10-10 11:18 AM Had a letter ready to send to Lowdhams, regarding problems with my Van Ti, think i'd better save the postage. What an 18mnths. for new starter, Fiat-gearbox/water ingress, euro, fuel costs, close on £20per. week just to keep it on the drive(insurance/servicing/hab.etc.) £38k investment- £20k today!!! Changed my life but not in the way I imagined, I feel like the captain of the Titanic. Is that how the drivers seat got it's name. P.s the money market is sinking faster. Total frustration SORRY. chris. At least if you get it sorted you have a vehicle and a hobby to escape the financial woes at home once and a while..... *-) Plus like a house you only lose the value when you come to sell it. So chin up and get your dealer to sort it out! that's who your contract is with not knauss Germany? so as long as dealer in business you can get satisfaction! citizens advice/trading standars and a solicitor if necessary..... It seems that Knaus were trying to refinance all through September and the banks brought them down...suprise..... surprise *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillking Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I doubt that many are technically solvent right now. It's just that Knaus found themselves needing to refinance at just the wrong moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usinmyknaus Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 That's worrying. Any of you para-legal eagles out there know if the dealer is responsible for the two-year warranty or did it die with Knaus please? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 I would have thought that because you purchase from the supplying dealer any warranty work which would have been financed by the manufacturer, would be covered through the dealers insurance, to cover such things as bankruptcy, but then again perhaps that is too easy a solution. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 you purchased from a UK dealer? then your contract is with them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usinmyknaus Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Thanks Chas & Judge, sounds fair to me. If I hear of, or experience anything different I'll post on this thread. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Seems to me that ANY Company making/trying to sell any big-ticket price, non-essential items at the moment - and into the foreseeable future - are gonna be in BIG doo-doo. Viz: car sales in USA down over 34% in JUST September alone. The global recession is now transferring from numbers on financial computer screens, out into the real world of commerce, sales, and thus employment and incomes. If you are employed in that sort of business, you need to realise that if your Company is making about 7 to 10% net profit (a fairly typical level), then you only need lose 7 to 10% of your custom before something fairly horrible happens to your job prospects........ There are still some people who are studiously ignoring the huge elephant standing in the corner of the room and thinking that this crisis is not going to affect them as it rolls out into the real economy. I suggest that they are GREATLY mistaken. Might I also suggest that you think VERY VERY carefully about what you are spending your money on, if you want to survive what is coming in the months/years ahead. Seems to me for example, that the resale value of any recently bought MH is gonna absolutely plummet in the future, as demand for them just totally dries up and supply of them into the secondhand market becomes a flood. A (say) 40 or 50k spend now on such a thing new, which'll be worth tuppence in a years time when so many other people will be skint and trying to sell theirs on too, is a helluva way to throw your nestegg down the drain....... Sorry to be the bearer of such smbre news.....but this is the real world, and it absolutely ain't gonna be all warm and fluffy in the coming years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Hi, BGD I don't think you are far off the mark ?? i also think it is going to go a very similar way with Houses, and the fight to stop inheritance tax may not be necessary in the next year or so ? so don't borrow on the back of your current house price BGD - 2008-10-13 9:26 AM Seems to me that ANY Company making/trying to sell any big-ticket price, non-essential items at the moment - and into the foreseeable future - are gonna be in BIG doo-doo. Viz: car sales in USA down over 34% in JUST September alone. The global recession is now transferring from numbers on financial computer screens, out into the real world of commerce, sales, and thus employment and incomes. If you are employed in that sort of business, you need to realise that if your Company is making about 7 to 10% net profit (a fairly typical level), then you only need lose 7 to 10% of your custom before something fairly horrible happens to your job prospects........ There are still some people who are studiously ignoring the huge elephant standing in the corner of the room and thinking that this crisis is not going to affect them as it rolls out into the real economy. I suggest that they are GREATLY mistaken. Might I also suggest that you think VERY VERY carefully about what you are spending your money on, if you want to survive what is coming in the months/years ahead. Seems to me for example, that the resale value of any recently bought MH is gonna absolutely plummet in the future, as demand for them just totally dries up and supply of them into the secondhand market becomes a flood. A (say) 40 or 50k spend now on such a thing new, which'll be worth tuppence in a years time when so many other people will be skint and trying to sell theirs on too, is a helluva way to throw your nestegg down the drain....... Sorry to be the bearer of such smbre news.....but this is the real world, and it absolutely ain't gonna be all warm and fluffy in the coming years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neillking Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 There's something in what you say but if we all sit on our hands then serious recession is inevitable. No sales equals no jobs so - a self fulfilling prophecy! It would be wise to be cautious but not to the extent of causing even more problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Neil - of course. 'Twas ever thus. The macro economic cycle is always, and always has been, a function of people's collective expectations becoming self-fulfilling. If enough people believe there will be a recession, and thus save rather than spending, then sure enough a recession will follow. And vice versa. But what is gonna make this 'un a helluva lot worse is the simply astronomical levels of debt that UK citizens, and the Uk Governmnet, have racked up in the past decade or so. For a substantial proportion of the population now, it's not going to be a judegement call to stop spending, it's gonna be a necessity: they simply won't have ANY money to spend. Add to that the simply stratospheric debt that our beloved "prudent" leader has racked up in the past decade, and upon which ALL of us taxpayers must now pay the interest on, and eventually repay the capital too. The UK national Public Sector debt is now well above 50% of TOTAL GDP. Put in simple terms that means that as taxpayers, we now owe ('cos that's the only place that a government gets its income) and will have over the years to come repay, more than twice the entire annual amount of value of every single business activity amd every single persons annual income, in the entire United Kingdom. Additionally. of course not all sectors of an economy contract at the same rate (indeed some small niche areas: eg debt collection, auction houses, bailiffs, etc, rapidly expand, but they are tiny niche areas). But the parts of an economy that suffer first, and hardest, are those producing or selling big-ticket luxury type goods/services. (Examples: long-haul foreign holidays, cruises, top-end cars, and yep: motorhomes and caravans). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ris Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Mentioned on the news today, Avondale are laying off workers due to downturn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Ris - 2008-10-15 2:34 PM Mentioned on the news today, Avondale are laying off workers due to downturn. Yes I saw that...... like houses your motorhome is only worth less if you need to sell it! While the private market will become a bit of a nightmare, if dealers want to stay in business they will have to go the extra yard to get you to part exchange your van. Or people will keep them longer thats all...... We have decided not to change van, and not have a winter sun holiday this Christmas. As I need to do some finishing on the house I started last year and somethings got to give........*-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catinou Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 JudgeMental - 2008-10-15 3:00 PM We have decided not to change van, and not have a winter sun holiday this Christmas. As I need to do some finishing on the house I started last year and somethings got to give........*-) Us too Judge, we were hoping to visit our son & daughter-in-law again next month and fit in some Christmas shopping, but the flights to Dubai have rocketed from last year. We had to think that what we would save on our shopping would nowhere near cover the extra cost. The big downside is that we will have to wait until they visit the UK again to see them. :'( but as our son works for, dare I say it, "one of the big banks" he comes over for meetings fairly often so we can grab some time with him then. So really we will just miss that lovely sun - we still have our MH though :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 We have been trying to sell a Holiday Cottage since March, without even a 'sniff' of an offer, with some of the proceeds we intend(ed) to buy a new van conversion (as our main transport) made by a well known converter from the north of England (NOT on a Fiat base). SO, indirectly the house market stalling is having an effect on the M/H market. I was sorry when Avondale stopped making M/H's a couple of years ago, 'cause they were well made, seems they can't make a profit out of making Caravans either, Shame, less choice for everyone. Now Knaus, and they probably wont be the last. Makes you wonder what the choice will be like, when we all come back out of our 'Air raid shelters' ?? :-( :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Plenty of Knaus vans at NEC, didn't see any signs saying 'Bankrupt stock selling cheap' taking orders on 2009 models, so whats the deal? I didn't have time to ask any staff on stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 They wouldn't broadcast it would they ? what about warranties ? without a 'Factory backed warranty' they will have to 'Seriously Discount' I certainly wouldn't buy, look at what happened to Autocruise buyers who bought just before the 'sell off' 'buy-out', they were put at the mercy of their Dealer. NOT a position I would relish 8-) 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnP Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I did ask on the Lowdhams stand at the NEC today (Wednesday) They said that there had been a buyout and that the vans they had ordered for customers were still being built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 colin - 2008-10-15 7:58 PM Plenty of Knaus vans at NEC, didn't see any signs saying 'Bankrupt stock selling cheap' taking orders on 2009 models, so whats the deal? I didn't have time to ask any staff on stand. I would not believe a word they said anyway...most probably sitting on a pile of stock *-) On Promobil it says they have gone Bankrupt and 1400 staff are affected...... http://www.promobil.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Hi, From the way I have understood of the translation (9/10/2008) of the link given, it does appear that while they have declared insolvency this still allows them or the liquidators when and if they are appointed to come in and try/look to recover some or all of the company, perhaps in a different form or looking for a different line of funding, so hopefully all is not lost yet. It says 1600 fear for there jobs which appears to indicate that they are still hopeful of some form of restructure/recovery and that the company is still operating. lets hope they are successful The translation was a bit questionable so I could have missunderstood it completely JudgeMental - 2008-10-16 5:29 AM colin - 2008-10-15 7:58 PM Plenty of Knaus vans at NEC, didn't see any signs saying 'Bankrupt stock selling cheap' taking orders on 2009 models, so whats the deal? I didn't have time to ask any staff on stand. I would not believe a word they said anyway...most probably sitting on a pile of stock *-) On Promobil it says they have gone Bankrupt and 1400 staff are affected...... http://www.promobil.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davenewellhome Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 What's going on here? We've gone from 400 to 1400 to 1600 jobs lost or under threat in a matter of days! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGD Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Dave - I think this is what we can expect day after day after day from now on across the Western European economies. People still haven't grasped what the financial meltdown really means, in terms of its devastating knock-on effects in the real world of sales, manufacturing, service industries, retailing, restaurants...everywhere where people depend on other people spending money in order to keep them in work. For each of us not yet personally affected it's still just an item on the news channels, a vague feeling of unease perhaps, until the day when your own Company announces losses/redundancies/reduced shifts/no bonuses, and/or you then get a letter saying your services are no longer required. The latest unemplyment announcement showed that 164,000 more in the UK people got exactly that letter in just the past 3 months. It really is gonna be a lot, a huge amount, grimmer, than almost anyone is daring to think about, in the year or two ahaead. My advice to all: keep your head well down, and don't spend on anything that isn't essential in the coming months........ >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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