terry1956 Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Hi, With the total weight issue we have within europe it does take a bit of care. I had the weight plate inspected not by the police but by the cash taker on the bridge between the irelands of denmark. Apart from that we did have are trailer checked over. This was mainly due to it all being French and the French not having many drivers who can tow car transporter trailers. All they did was check the plate on the hymer and the car and the trailer and check my driving licence and the insurance for the trailer and that was that. I alway get a set of weigh tickets for my own piece of mind before setting off, and at a cost of 3 euros it would be silly not to. I showed these to the police and they looked happy. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwaviation Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 For anyone who would like to replate their van (up or down) then try http://www.svtech.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted October 25, 2008 Share Posted October 25, 2008 Terry1956, I think you've got one of your weights wrong. You cannot have a GVW/MAM that exceeds the sum of the axle weights and you say you have axle weights of 1900 and 1400 (total 3300) and a MAM of 3500, so something is clearly odd here! Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry1956 Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Mel, the hymer is in france and I was trying to remember the right weights, but they are around that area. The thing is that its best to check. I am lucky I can use my local weighbridge for 3 euros for the axle checks and the all up weight. France loves paperwork, and if stopped when driving on french plates it always helps to give the police lots of paperwork to read. They just get bored and push off. michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 There are a lot of vans sold with a poor loading margin. The trouble is we all want loads of luxuries and space but a mtpl of 3500. Some vans that are plainly designed for long term touring in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 I see that SVTECH offer DIY kits to uprate a vehicle. Does anybody know what the kit consists of and the approximate cost ?My payload is just over 500kgs, but I've had an awning & towbar fitted and also carry 13 & 6 kgs gas cylinders. I also trailer a motorbike.I haven't taken the motorhome fully laden to a weighbridge yet, so I may be ok. If I'm near the limit....which is probably the case, I'd consider fitting one of these kits and get it replated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 You probably know this but its worth mentioning that there is a weigh bridge at Handcross M23 and its free to use. Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 Hi Bob You don't need to take your trailer & bike into account for the 500kg The Van should have 2 payload figures one will be the Van itself (I guess the Rapido 709 will be max of 3500kg with a total "train" weight of maybe 5500kg, wi hich is your total maximum including the "towed" element. Still worth checking at the weighbridge for your individual axle weights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 26, 2008 Share Posted October 26, 2008 bob b - 2008-10-26 5:55 PM I see that SVTECH offer DIY kits to uprate a vehicle. Does anybody know what the kit consists of and the approximate cost ?My payload is just over 500kgs, but I've had an awning & towbar fitted and also carry 13 & 6 kgs gas cylinders. I also trailer a motorbike.I haven't taken the motorhome fully laden to a weighbridge yet, so I may be ok. If I'm near the limit....which is probably the case, I'd consider fitting one of these kits and get it replated. For details of what is included/involved, and the cost, ask SV Tech. However, your van is on a Fiat chassis that starts out at 3,400Kg MAM with the "camping car" suspension mods. Realistically, all SV Tech can do is to provide a plate that would authorise a MAM of 3,650Kg, i.e., the combined maximum rear and front axle loads. However, since your rear axle is probably already near to, or even over, its maximum permitted load, you probably won't be able to use all of that extra 250Kg. It is also very difficult to balance loads within a van where the MAM is the total of both axle maxima, which is why the two axle maxima always add up to more than the MAM in the first place.The first step must be to take your van to a weighbridge fully laden (with full water, fuel and gas cylinders, and including the fully laden trailer) and get the loads on both axles as well as its gross laden weight checked. While you're at it, get the laden trailer weighed as well, and check it is within its MAM and that the whole rig is within the permitted Gross Train Weight for the van. Only then will you be able to see what margin you have to play with. Remember that to keep the trailer stable, around 7% of its actual laden weight should fall onto the towball (noseweight), and that noseweight is thereby transferred to the vans rear axle, but is amplified by the leverage of the distance from towball to van rear axle. You will therefore need the actual laden weight of the van, ditto the trailer, plus the axle loadings for all three axles. As a check, detach the trailer and re-weigh the van alone, and you will then get the actual trailer noseweight, which will be the weight of the van alone but with trailer attached, less the weight of the van with the trailer detached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel E Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Bob B, SVTech do not supply kits - they only supply revised vehicle plates. They are 'desk engineers' and do not, as a rule, supply parts. They will, however, take account of some suspension mods when producing a revised plate - though I am advised by them that the 'Driverite' type of air bag suspension sytem does not enhance the behicle's MAM. As Brian says, they can normally upgrade the MAM to the sum of the axle weights, but it is impossible to load to this sum without overloading an axle. Even if you managed perfect balance, it would almost certainly go out of balance as you used up fuel driving - depending on where the fuel tank is fitted. Mel E ==== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob b Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Many thanks to all for the useful advice. I'll visit the weighbridge at Handcross shortly and see what the postion actually is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Thanks everyone, As someone new to motorhome travel and having just done France Spain and Portugal for the first time, I am now totaly confused. eg Where do I find Train Weight, do I need to have a trailer weighed before I set off and do I need to carry a weighbridge printout for the trailer? Wife and I did the trip this year and intend doing it again and again. Problem was that when we were outside of towns or villages we really needed transport to go anywhere as we had to find 2 car park places for the van and of course there were height restrictions, but you will already know of this. The van, a new SeA, has a towbar fitted and we thought to have a scooter rack and air bag assisters fitted. Seems this is not practical because it might be pushing it a bit with rear axle weight. We already have a 900cc Yamaha touring motorbike and I thought "Here is the answer - tow it". Now, after reading the Forum, I am completely confused and wonder how I will find my way through the maze of regulations. Allowing for the fact that we are 60s and not conversant with this stuff can someone help to explain in easy terms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo3090 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 We had ours weighed last week just to see what spare weight is left for vitals like Anns' shoes when we go away in January. We will be packing for 6 months so there will need to be more clothes than a fortnights trip! We have weighed the total van and each axle. The GVW is 4005 Kgs but confusingly the weights for each axle are 2,100Kgs front and 2,400Kgs for the rear. On another forum I did ask where the missing 495 Kgs has gone! Apparently, the max weights for each axle have no bearing on the Gross vehicle weight and that's what the authorities will go on. After weighing with full fuel, gas tank and water and everything else on the van, (including Ann and the dog!), but except clothes and fuel we will have 65kgs left. I intend only running on half a water tank on the way down through France so we should have a fair amount of spare weight. The guy at the public weigh bridge, (£10 for the ticket for three weights), suggested loading up with everything, including full water tank, going back and he will let me drop water until we get legal. Then he will give me the ticket. You are allowed by law to be overweight GOING to the weighbridge, but not coming back. But the journey must be for that sole purpose. The same applies when going for your MOT if the date has passed. BTW the correct term now is RTC, "Road Traffic Collision" Apparently some smart lawyer argued his client couldn't be guilty because the word the "Accident" in RTA meant that the circumstances weren't avoidable and using the legal definition of "Accident" meant no one was to blame! So until the "incident" is correctly investigated it's a collision not an accident! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Geoff Tuckley - 2008-10-27 4:22 PM Thanks everyone, As someone new to motorhome travel and having just done France Spain and Portugal for the first time, I am now totaly confused. eg Where do I find Train Weight, do I need to have a trailer weighed before I set off and do I need to carry a weighbridge printout for the trailer? Wife and I did the trip this year and intend doing it again and again. Problem was that when we were outside of towns or villages we really needed transport to go anywhere as we had to find 2 car park places for the van and of course there were height restrictions, but you will already know of this. The van, a new SeA, has a towbar fitted and we thought to have a scooter rack and air bag assisters fitted. Seems this is not practical because it might be pushing it a bit with rear axle weight. We already have a 900cc Yamaha touring motorbike and I thought "Here is the answer - tow it". Now, after reading the Forum, I am completely confused and wonder how I will find my way through the maze of regulations. Allowing for the fact that we are 60s and not conversant with this stuff can someone help to explain in easy terms? GeoffYour van will have on it somewhere, usually under the bonnet, a manufacturer's plate that gives the maximum permissible weight for the vehicle (the Maximum Allowable Mass, or MAM), the maximum permissible weight for the front axle, the maximum permissible weight for the rear axle, and the maximum permissible Gross Train Weight (GTW). Consult the handbook for which is where, but Gross Train Weight is the total actual weight of the laden vehicle, plus the total actual weight of any trailer it is towing. It is an offence to exceed the MAM, either of the permissible axle loads, or the GTW.Any trailer you buy will have a similar plate stating its loading limits. If unsure, ask the seller to explain which is which, but it should show the maximum permissible weight for the trailer, the maximum permissible downforce on the coupling head (or hitch), and the maximum permissible load on the axle (if a twin axle trailer then given for axle 1 [front] and axle 2 [rear]). As for the tow vehicle, it is an offence to exceed any of these limits. When considering a towbar, it is important to ensure that it is adequate for the drawbar weight of the trailer and the trailer hitch downforce. As a general rule, it is unwise to load a trailer so that its hitch downforce is less than 7% of its actual laden weight. If this exceeds the maximum permissible downforce for the towbar, or for the trailer coupling head, the trailer should be lightened.As a rule of thumb, the maximum trailer weight you can tow is the difference between the plated GTW and the van's MAM. However, it is my understanding that, if the van is below its MAM, it is permissible to transfer its unused capacity to the trailer, provided neither the trailer MAM nor the GTW are exceeded in the process. However, do check this before proceeding.The simplest, and cheapest, way to know these weights is by visiting a public weighbridge first with your fully laden (i.e. absolutely everything, including occupants, shoes, hairspray, etc etc) van, to ascertain what margin you have to play with. Do this before you buy any towbar or trailer. Remember that weights added behind the rear axle are magnified by leverage, and so exert greater actual force at the axle (the rear overhang acts like a see-saw, so the difference between this and the actual weight comes off the front axle). This will apply to the self-weight of the towbar, as well as to any hitch downforce. Most motorhomes flirt with overloading their rear axles, so do not omit the check on individual axle weights, it is all too possible to be well within the MAM, but still have an overloaded rear axle!If/when you are satisfied that your van is within its MAM, and that neither axle is overloaded, deduct its actual laden weight from the plated GTW, and you will know (subject to checking as above) the absolute maximum weight of trailer you could actually tow. Check that this is adequate for your proposed trailer. Take 7% of that figure, add an allowance for towbar weight (consult manufacturers/fitters for this), enhance to allow for the leverage on the rear axle, then check that this is still within the rear axle load limit.Now have a nice glass of Scotch and a little lie down, then grab your credit card and place your orders!Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Madge Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 This is what a vin plate looks like. This was the plate that I received from SV Tech when I uprated my van from 3300kg to 3500kg. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tuckley Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Thanks to Brian Kirby and Don Madge, I am quite clear now as to what I have to do. I have SORNed the van for a while (It is snowing today here in North Wales) but when I tax it again I shall refer back to your mail and hopefully go through the process without much difficulty. Didn't realise of course when I was having a towbar fitted that it's weight is increased because of its distance from the rear axle. It was supplied and fitted by Towtal and is quite hefty. The bike weighs 250kg so I shall have the van on the weighbridge first and then deduce what I am left with. Maybe she who must never be disobeyed will have to cut back on the return journey wine ration next time. Anyway, thanks for your help, I am so pleased I have found a good Forum. PS Anyone needs advice on boats I shall try to help, that's what we did for 25 years before motorhoming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Geoff Tuckley - 2008-10-28 11:44 AM (It is snowing today here in North Wales) . oh no, can't wait to put the hour back on :-( B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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