Transit Mk 7, water on engine.

[Brian Kirby]

Anyone with a motorhome based upon the new Transit (Mk 7), front wheel drive only, would be well advised to look carefully at the top of the cylinder head after washing the 'van, or rain. 

This is not that easy to get into view, but if you take a torch and look on the UK offside, just beneath the end of the plastic sound proofing cover that sits atop the engine, and just above the generator etc drive belts, you should just be able to glimpse the end of the cylinder head and the base of one of the injectors.  Expect to see rust or water on the head in the vicinity of the injector.  This was pointed out to me by a sharp eyed technician when ours was serviced, and I have since had a chance to look at another, rhd, version that had the same problem, albeit a bit less severe.  The technician expressed the view that this should be treated since the injectors would otherwise rust in with potentially costly consequences.

The fault is a number of holes in the steel tray that sits immediately beneath the plastic scuttle tray at the foor of the windscreen.  Using a mirror, you should be able to inspect the underside of this tray, on which the water trails may be visible.  The fix requires removal of the plastic tray and application of tape, sealant, or similar, over the holes.  Fiddly, but possible.

Design fault?  I doubt it.  Just evidence that Transits generally are expected to have brutish and short, lives and not spend time sitting around on people's drives when they should be on the road earning their keep!

[yeti]

Have you found an alternative spelling for FIAT?

And where does the water go after fixing the tray?

[Brian Kirby]

No, I don't think this is the same as the Sevel water ingress problem, where the panels simply don't have seals. 

The plastic scuttle tray on the Transit appears intended as largely cosmetic.  There is no attempt at sealing, with the water allowed to drain freely into the steel tray beneath.  This steel tray (which is part of the cab structure) provides support for a number of components, such as the heater air intake, the windscreen wiper mechanism, the radiator expansion bottle and various cables and pipes. 

The steel tray freely drains out into the wheel arches at both ends.  It falls into the "let the water in, but then let it out again" school, rather than the "seal the water out at all costs" school.

The problem seems to be that to suit lhd and rhd versions of the van, there are a number of "spare" holes in the tray to suit the alternative locations of the above components.  There are also some clips and locating pegs that position the plastic tray to the underlying steel one which, as usual, are oval to cater for assembly tolerances, so do not seal well.

That water can escape from the steel tray is not, therefore, the problem: the problem is that some of the escaping water drips onto the top of the engine, where it accumulates around the injector seatings.  In daily use engine heat would quickly evaporate this off with, presumably, little problem.  However, vans parked during winter, or on site, will have cold engines for days, possibly weeks, on end, and the accumulated water could then cause quite severe corrosion around the injectors.

[mirage]

I have seen the video of water ingress on the X250.

I wonder how many have actually examined their cars thoroughly, I checked my 6 year old Peugeot 307 with a watering can the other day and whilst the scuttle is one piece it directs water down the insides of the engine bay including over some electrics. Further I had to have a new ABS Pump fitted (£1345 - ouch!!!), garage said it was due water ingress which at the time I assumed came from the road as the pump is low down, now I wonder? no joy from Peugeot of course. Our second car is a Honda Jazz, again water enters from the scuttle into the engine compartment, there is no attempt to prevent it and the flow is clearly marked within the engine compartment.

Might be interesting to know if this is a more common feature among other makes than is perhaps realised. How many bonnets/scuttles are actually watertight to any degree.

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

I believe I mentioned a while ago that rain-water could find it's way on to the top of the transverse motor on my 2005 Mk 6 Transit and the October 2008 issue of Le Monde du Camping-Car published a letter complaining of a similar problem with a 2002 Mk 6 with 'longways' motor.

 

As Brian suggests, the design philosophy regarding engine-compartment water sealing nowadays often seems to be based on the principle that the vehicle will be used very regularly, which is certainly what one might reasonably expect with a light commercial vehicle.

[roger s]

Its not just the front wheel drive Mk7 Transit, its the rear wheel drive version as well. Injector pipes and cylinder head needs a regular squirt of WD40, same applies to the older version (52 Reg'n) been looking today at some

[Brian Kirby]

In which case, all owners of Mk 6 and 7 Transit based motorhomes should look closely at the state of their van's cylinder heads.  Squirting WD40 around won't really cure this problem, the cylinder head on ours collects around 6mm of water which, unless mopped up (not easy!), just sits there until the engine is run.  The WD40 will not prevent this, and I suspect will be burned off when the engine is run, so will only provide short term protection.

The remedy is to carefully ease out the cosmetic two part plastic tray, and then address the sealing of this to the underlying steel scuttle tray.  To be fair, Ford have made a stab at this, but their seals seem inadequate and are all attached to the plastic elements.  It seems these plastic elements are a hand fit during production and, if the quality of fit achieved is less than perfect (or possibly if the accumulated tolerances are at the extreme the design can accommodate) the seals are not fully compressed and so do not function as intended.

[George Collings]

I have seen the same water damage on the MK 6. Getting an injector out of a 7 or eight year old camper van could be interesting.

 

WD40 is really a penetrating oil and water dispersant, it needs regular renewal. There are specialist sprays for longer term protetection. Don't be suprised if the motor smells a bit after use. Try a boat yard or yacht chandlers.

 

 

 

[fred grant]

theres no oil in wd40 my luvvers. fred uses the stuff as a cleaner. dus all sorts of cleanin jobs on the farm. wouldn't be without it. BUT DO NOT use for your arthritis my biddies.

 

f

[charbertom]

I have a Mark 6 based Autosleeper and noticed the water and rust early on. I now park the vehicle with a sheet of foil which collects the water or at least deflects it from the top of the engine and injectors. Seems to have worked for the last couple of years, but dont forget to remove it before you move off again!

[ron.]

Some of the above posts tie in with what was Peugeot answer to a complaint by me regarding the scuttle water ingress. In short, they said that the engine compartment was not meant to be a sealed unit and would not do anything about it unless it was serious. What is the definition of 'serious', serious at the moment or over a longer term - how long is a piece of string? I gave up arguing and paid Fiat to cure it - almost.

[Brian Kirby]

Oops!

[JENIAN]

Had our 2001 Duetto MK 6 scuttle water ingress sorted out by our local garage in Gainsborough, last year. He identfied the problem while it was in for waxoiling and he fixed the problem by constructing and fitting a metal baffle plate under the scuttle to divert the water to the sides of the engine. He needed to remove and refit the scuttle tray to achieve this and while it was out he applied hammerite to the metal underneath. Luckily the injectors were just a little rusty and I keep spraying them with WD40 and light oil spray.

 

Regards Ian.

[Brian Kirby]

A few pictures to better explain what I'm on about.

The first shows the rust around an injector, and the puddle of water on the cylinder head.

The second shows the various holes in the metal scuttle tray through which the water gets onto the top of the engine.  The dirt is approx 15 months accumulation!

The third shows the cleaned scuttle tray with pieces of foam double sided tape attached.  The tape is approx 2mm thick: the pieces are set diagonally to encourage the water to flow around, rather than gather against, them.  Quite a bit of rain since this was done, and the top of the engine has remained bone dry.

[hygra]

Hi Brian I have a Mk7 Ford Transit Late 2007 model 130 Bhp and this has a plastic scuttle fitted over the engine bay metal scuttle below the windscreen. the result no water on the injectors or engine Perhaps you could contact your local Ford dealer for a retro fit scuttle and seal regards Graham

[hygra]

I have taken pics but the server refuses to accept them at the moment

Graham

[Brian Kirby]

hygra - 2008-11-01 9:45 AM Hi Brian I have a Mk7 Ford Transit Late 2007 model 130 Bhp and this has a plastic scuttle fitted over the engine bay metal scuttle below the windscreen. the result no water on the injectors or engine Perhaps you could contact your local Ford dealer for a retro fit scuttle and seal regards Graham

Graham

Please see my two 25 October posts, above.  The pictures are with the plastic tray removed.  Glad the plastic tray on yours works, it doesn't on ours!

[bob b]

Brian

What are the holes in the metal scuttle for ?

Can you not just 'plug' the holes with seam sealer for a permanent fix ?

[Brian Kirby]

bob b - 2008-11-01 3:22 PM

Brian

What are the holes in the metal scuttle for ?

Can you not just 'plug' the holes with seam sealer for a permanent fix ?

Mainly to fix, or locate, the cosmetic plastic tray!  Plugging them is not, therefore, an option.  However, some are only required for RHD versions, although these generally have been closed by Ford.  So far, the double sided foam tape is 100% successful.  The leaks have simply got past the Ford seals.  The extra thickness of the foam tape seems to provide just that bit more compression on the Ford seals, and the adhesive upper surface holds them in place better.

[spospe]

I have a MK7 (140 bhp, rear wheel drive) built as a Duetto and have not had any problems at all as described by Brian.

 

The van was new in January this year and has done nearly 11,000 miles to date in all weathers.

[ollybear]

Hello,

I had the same problem on my LHD MK7 FWD. In the beginning all of the injectors where rusty. After cleaning and checking again later only one was rusty again. This made it easier to trace the source of the water ingress. In my case the cause of the water on the engine was the leaking fresh- air intake. I sealed the seam of the plastic-box(after dismantling it) and fitted the drainage pipe new. Now, after a couple of months the problem is cured.