Guest Tony Goldby Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I'm trying to access the archive for the above without success. I can't get into the archive at all have tried several times today. What I need to know is the telephone number of the suppliers of the French Aires Directory so I can obtain a copy. I need to buy tyres for my Autotrail Apache. I've been quoted £51 for Barum budget tyre made by Continental; £67 for Avon; £66 for Continental, £50 for Pirelli and £57 for Michelin "Agelis" (I think it was called). These prices are for 185 x 14, 8 ply and these are the "all in" prices including vat, valves, disposal of old tyre etc. I've currently got Michelin XCA on the van which are at least 5 years old. Any comment on these prices they all seem pretty steep to me, deep pockets short arms I guess. The lowest price which I always discount is £37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Powell Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Hi Tony...Search:- Cheaper tyres. Quite a bit of information there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Tony: I don't think the Archive is accessible for reading, though the Search facility will retrieve stuff from it. (I'll ask Peter Sharpe to check what the situation is.) As far as the 'aires' book is concerned I've copied the following from a recent posting: ......................................... The Book you need is Le Guide Officiel Etapes Camping-Car. You can get it in French Supermarkets but to prepare in advance it can be purchased at Camping & Travel Guides, Travel and Tourism Consultancy Services, Chesil Lodge, West Bexington, Dorset. DT2 9DG Tel 01308 898132 E Mail Clive or Lois@abbtel.co.uk It is about £8.00. Money well spent. .......................................... If you search the forum using key-word "etapes" you'll get more details. The tyre prices you quote don't seem unduly excessive to me. Presumably they are all for exactly the same size and type of tyre - for example, Michelin's Agilis pattern comes in several flavours and 185 x 14 is axailable as Agilis 61 185 R14 C 99R or Agilis 81 185 R14C 102R and 185/75 R14C 102R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neal Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Tony Pretty steep huh? I've just bought two tyres for my RV. Michelin and Cooper came in at £195 + VAT each! Luckily Watling Tyres sourced an "unknown" brand at £130 + VAT each. They're round and black with very deep tread - just the job!! Regards Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barrie Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 being in the motor trade for 45 years i sudder at the thought of "unknown" brands neal. you pays your money and makes your choice !!theres not a lot between four small patches of rubber on the road & disaster.a few tons of metal waving around on only three is not desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MelE Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 For really cheaper genuine branded tyres, buy on the Continent. They're still much cheaper there (as is vehicle maintenance, incidentally). Saving £65 on a pair of tyres by buying an unknown brand with, presumably, no guarantee of performance, strikes me as ........ (enter you own expletive in the space provided)! I really cannot put it lainer than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neal Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 All I appreciate the concerns shown but I have been running vehicles for over 30 years. I don't believe tyres are significantly different from other products in that, a large part of the higher price relates to a brand name. E-marked tyres (as they have to be by law) are made to a specification that covers material quality and manufacturing methods amongst other things. An un-branded tyre should be similar (note - similar) to a branded one. In my 30-odd years the only tyre I have had a problem with was a remould (cross-ply). That put me off buying remoulds. Can this be 30 years of luck? Surely not! Regards Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brian Ramsden Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 further to the matter of obtaining the guide for aires, the 2005 edition is out of print and the 2006 edition should be available around March. You can get it from amazon.fr a bit cheaper and possibly a bit sooner from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tony Goldby Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Thanks very much for the prompt replies. Derek; your info is very welcome and I'll ask the question of the various suppliers. I very much want to compare like with like. Brian; again thanks for the reply, The Aire Directory is always out of print when I want one. Simply can't get used to this planning ahead malarkey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pat Price Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Hi Tony I have searched "french aires" on the net and it comes up with eurocampingcar.com (I think) and on there you can access the country and all the aires by going on to the region you are interested in. Hope this helps. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Newell Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Tony and Neal, tyres all have to meet certain basic constructional criteria but that (and round, black etc) is pretty much where the similarity ends. There are choices of fibre re-inforced or steel re-inforced often referred to as steel belted. There are numerous different compounds used in tread makeup giving rise to a massive variation in tread wear, dry weather grip and wet weather grip. There are numerous variations of size; diameter, width aspect ratio. There are many choices of speed rating as well as load rating. Tyre companies spend fortunes on development and testing to ensure their products meet all relevant safety requirements. It is worth checking that your cheap tyres are actually the correct specification. For example many modern cars will take a 185/65 14 tyre. Typically this would be a four ply construction tyre and quite safe for the car its fitted to. But the same size tyre can be specified for a light commercial vehicle up to 3500 KG MAM. On such a vehicle the 4 ply tyre is no good! When the commercial is loaded to it's max the tyres will almost certainly give up, especially if pushed to 70MPH for a sustained period. Bearing in mind that you'll probably get 5 years or more from these tyres is it really so important to save a few quid? Go for a known quality brand and be (as far as is possible) safe in the knowledge that you got the best tyres for the job. Michelin are probably one of the best respected tyre manufacturers in the world for good reason, thay make damned good tyres. Regards Dave. dave@davenewell.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clive Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I agree with Dave, I prefer Michelin. We also had a blow out years ago on a bus rear tyre, blew the wheel arch clean off as well, remoulds!. Never again, glad it was twin rears. One other recently new thing regarding tyres is the new "Fuel Economy" tyre fitted as OEM by Vauxhall at least to my knowledge. Tyres with a lower rolling resistance save fuel. These small car tyres are made using a harder rubber compound normally only used on larger commercial tyres. Many years ago when working on some electrically propelled cars (Mini, Marina etc) Avon made some specials for us using a commercial mix. The difference in power consumption was quite measureable when we tested at MVEE at Chobham. But and its a BIG but the adhesion to the road of such tyres is not as good as normal car tyres with a softer rubber. So just remember that when you nip in front of a lorry and sharply apply your brakes, you may stop but you may also end up like the white ball on a snooker table. Or come to that, don,t nip in from of the wife,s Agila either! Must go, first Xmas dinner tonight. Bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neal Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Dave & Clive Valid points, I'm sure, but not only are my new tyres round and black, they are E-marked, they are of exactly the same size as the previous ones, including aspect ratio, they are the correct weight rating and they are the same speed rating. The tread and sidewall are the same ply rating and type. I do NOT "nip in front of lorries", nor do I tear around the highways like a boy racer. I am driving a 30', 6.5 tonne RV!! I check my tyres regularly and I drive in a manner that I hope will enable me to control a disaster as best as possible should one occur. If I am dis-satisfied with the "budget" tyres (budget - at £130 + VAT??) I will not entertain them again. BUT, I don't think price alone is enough reason to run away from them. I am an honest person; if disaster happens you'll know about it and you can chastise me. Oh, and about development, things move on. What was cutting edge and exclusive for Michelin 10 years ago is now common-place within the industry. My RV is 10 years old and so may have "as new" tyres on it now! Enjoy that first turkey, Clive. Regards Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ralph Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Having read all the above, my recent experience with tyres of a well known and expensive brand does not make me think that what Dave and Clive say is neccessarily correct. Nice in theory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 If you study "Which?" reports on car tyres it soon becomes apparent that (say) a Michelin tyre that is rated top performer in a particular size and pattern may only be average in another size/pattern. Basically, just because a tyre's got the Michelin (or Avon, Dunlop, Pirelli, etc.) name on it doesn't automatically make it best in its class. The problem for motorcaravanners when purchasing replacement tyres is that there is very little comparative information available for the commercial vehicle tyres that will be suitable for their motorhomes. As far as I'm aware the only readily accessible test data was obtained in 2002 by the German motorhome magazine ProMobil and a summary can be found in the Vehicles/Tyres section of www.motorcaravanning.co.uk It's interesting to note that, of the 8 tyre patterns tested by ProMobil, only Michelin's XC Camping would have been fitted as original equipment to a motorhome, and, while XC Camping is an 8PR tyre, the rest are all 10PR. As the Which? tests prove, comparing like with like is essential with tyre testing, so there's no guarantee that the poor wet-weather performance of Michelin's 10PR Agilis 101 tyre will transfer to a same-size 8PR Agilis 81 that also has a totally different tread pattern. (Of course, there's no guarantee that it won't either!) Similarly, one can't be certain that the best performance of the Continental 10PR Vanco-10 tyre will be equally outstanding for an 8PR Vanco-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Neal Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 Derek Does that mean, in the light of almost no comparative data, the best option might be to buy the cheapest E-marked tyre that matches the OEM specification, regardless of the name?? Regards Neal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Derek Uzzell Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Who knows? Do blondes really have more fun and is that why gentlemen prefer them? Or is it the other way round? Sadly I've no comparative data on this subject either. Seriously though, I shan't argue with your suggestion - as long as one can be confident a tyre does indeed match the OEM specification, then I don't see why it should be rejected just because it's inexpensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dave Newell Posted December 17, 2005 Share Posted December 17, 2005 Hi again, I wasn't necessarily saying that cheaper (or budget if you prefer) tyres are in any way inferior, although on re-reading my previous post I can see it may have come across that way, I was simply trying to say that price alone should never be the criteria that one chooses such an important item by. It is at speed and under load that tyres fail and the safety margin could be less on budget tyres. Back in the early 70s when the Good Year G800 range came out they had loads of trouble with them to start with because of an unnacceptably high failure rate at just over 100MPH. This was a problem simply because they were rated in excess of 100MPH. (the failures (as far as I'm aware) all occurred on the test bed under extreme load conditions but within the makers specified operating range). If you save £25 per tyre and buy 4 of them then you've saved £100 but over 5 years that's only £20 per year, is that really a big enough saving to risk an unknown brand even if it has all the right markings? Oh, and Neal, you may not drive like a loon but I am constantly surprised by the number of motorhome owners who feel the need to hurtle along at 70 MPH with three and a half tonnes or more on their backs. When a tyre goes pop under those conditions its time to stick your head between your legs and kiss your a&*%$ good bye! An interesting debate this, Dave. www.davenewell.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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